Since Pendraken are raising their prices I would like to announce this:
http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2014/01/the-future-of-games-days-games.html
The best comment refers to the feedback the EE gets and simply does not listen and moreover treats its fanbase like dirt.
GW may have full control of their cost but they certainly have no clue about their sales. +1.1 % in sales and windowdressing your annual results to show a positive result by cutting costs cannot go on forever. Paired with the total disrespect to the community you get a wakeup call one day.
Now let us look at Pendraken:
1. The price rise is homogenous across the productline.
This means this hits everyone and is not aimed at selling certain (new) products. I call this an honest raise related to cost!
2. The second to none support and community
Does not really need an explanation, does it? It is one reason that ALL customers swallow the price increase without much change in their buying habit. We get what we want (wishlists) and Pendraken is there for their fanbase.
Hmmmm.... :-\
Interesting....
Cheers - Phil
Thanks Boss...that has REALLY cheered me up ;D ;D ;D
Scrap Warmaster will you ;D ;D ;D
Ignore your customers ;D ;D ;D
Reap as you sew ;D ;D ;D
Quote from: Techno on 16 January 2014, 09:09:32 PM
Hmmmm.... :-\
Interesting....
Cheers - Phil
I tried to save my ranting about business and that cutting cost is not the last (or best) word.
As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.
Mine is that pleasing shareholders and not your fanbase is the wrong step. You need to please the fanbase in order to please the shareholders.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 January 2014, 10:26:09 PM
I tried to save my ranting about business and that cutting cost is not the last (or best) word.
As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.
Mine is that pleasing shareholders and not your fanbase is the wrong step. You need to please the fanbase in order to please the shareholders.
Speaking as one of the former fanbase; they well and truly hacked me off and, as a result, Pendraken have gained £500+ of my business over the last year or so.
Multiply by however many more there are feeling the same and you have your answer! QED
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 16 January 2014, 10:26:09 PM
As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.
I suppose the biggest difference since the time I was there, is that there weren't any shareholders then, Seb.
Yes....It was a business....And we were trying to push it forward....But I don't think we ever lost sight of the need to please the customer.
(At least I
hope we never did !)
After all, the studio, especially, was
almost entirely made up of 'fans' that had found their way 'into the business.
Only time I ever thought ....."That's a bit cheeky'....Was when the price of 'special' figures started rising beyond what you'd expect to pay for a 'grunt'.
It was pointed out to me that a) the 'specials' usually took the designer a good bit longer to make....and b).....The customer would (or could) only have a single one in his/her army on the tabletop.....So there was no way we were ever going to sell as many.
Even in those days there were folk that saw the 'old' GW as the Evil Empire.....And I have to admit, that in those days I found that a bit hurtful.
As far as I was concerned, we DID care about the customers then.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 17 January 2014, 09:18:12 AM
I suppose the biggest difference since the time I was there, is that there weren't any shareholders then, Seb.
Yes....It was a business....And we were trying to push it forward....But I don't think we ever lost sight of the need to please the customer.
Even in those days there were folk that saw the 'old' GW as the Evil Empire.....And I have to admit, that in those days I found that a bit hurtful.
As far as I was concerned, we DID care about the customers then.
From the outside, GW's service then felt like Pendraken's feels now.
Loved GW in the 80s. It was a bit rough around the edges but all the better for that; when you went into store it was in no way corporate and more "model shoppy" (you know the kind of shop I mean).
And, as someone else commented, White Dwarf at that time was a GENUINE gamers' magazine including book reviews, chat, painting and modelling tips etc. After that big business took over and, IMHO, the customer became a cash cow. Once that's your business model; it is almost inevitable you'll fail.
Thanks Techno and it concurs with my views as well.
I got into the hobby with Space Crusade and I could see and feel the love the designers had put in there.
I believe in order to please shareholders you need to please the fanbase. Only then will they buy your product and create returns for the shareholders but I shall not start a business management rant.
Quo Vadis GW? We are a niche hobby and without a presence on High Street even more so. So as much as I rejoice at GW being punched in the face (would that constitute a hobby, too?) I do not want them destroyed for the selfish reason that I love my hobby.
Destroyed? No.
Humbled? Most definitely!
Another interesting read re: the evil empire...
http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gw-whats-gone-wrong-personal-view.html
If GW does go under ( and people have been saying that for the last 15 years) then life will go on. The supply products to a niche market that is pretty much unconnected with the rest of wargaming
Life will go on
Quote from: Fenton on 17 January 2014, 11:31:02 AM
If GW does go under ( and people have been saying that for the last 15 years) then life will go on. The supply products to a niche market that is pretty much unconnected with the rest of wargaming
Life will go on
Agreed
Quote from: Steve J on 17 January 2014, 11:11:29 AM
Another interesting read re: the evil empire...
http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gw-whats-gone-wrong-personal-view.html
Good article....But life will go on.....
Anyone care to wager that the comments will still be the same in another year's time ?....As EE increase their prices even more. ;) ;D
Cheers - Phil.
I'll take that wager!
If I win, you get a star part in next year's panto and do me a figure of my chioice.
If you win, you don't get a star part in next year's panto and I don't show you what happens to your figures when I get hold of them.
:D
Quote from: Techno on 17 January 2014, 12:13:35 PM
Good article....But life will go on.....
Anyone care to wager that the comments will still be the same in another year's time ?....As EE increase their prices even more. ;) ;D
Cheers - Phil.
There has to come a snapping point and maybe they'vs reached it. They've burned so many customers they have no loyal fan base. I will now only buy things from them I absolutely cannot get elsewhere; nuln oil wash is the last product of theirs I still buy.
Additionally, their brushes used to be awesome (I still have some from 15+ years ago when I worked for them) now they barely last a couple of months. This smells of cost-cutting to please share-holders.
So will we be saying the same in a year's time; I don't think so.
Finally, I wonder if the move to plastics / resins has also contributed. There was something awesome, powerful, seductive even to owning weighty lead (as was) armies. Lead (or pewter) is also far enough removed from childhood toys to be "different" enough for teenagers to want to collect; more grown up if you will. Could be a factor???
Quote from: fsn on 17 January 2014, 12:23:17 PM
I'll take that wager!
If I win, you get a star part in next year's panto and do me a figure of my chioice.
If you win, you don't get a star part in next year's panto and I don't show you what happens to your figures when I get hold of them.
:D
;D ;D ;D
Where is the Panto slacker???
Well someone (American) on FB "in the business" is trying to convince me the move to resin was just a stopgap on the way to all plastic.
Not only could the person care less to answer my question why wasting money on resin is so brilliant when you are moving to plastic in the long run anyways.
But now they move to plastic step by step and abandon resin (after sunk cost) step by step as any sane person would have - and as I suggested in the frst place. But of course my analysis that "GW tried to sell a sub-par product without necessary QC (outsourced to customer) at a premium price" is "angry and condencending". I beg to differ and believe that this attempt to screw the fanbase some more severly backfired.
And my notion to do what you want to do without wasting time and money is too expensive (while GW are now doing it anyways). Is it just me or are the intellectual capacities of my opponent really that limited (aka idiot)?
Idle speculation on my part but could the rise of EBay, coupled with tremendous "churn" in the customer base also be a factor?
I still buy GW products, mainly Warmaster stuff, but I get it all from EBay. THe occasional conversation I have with sellers suggests to me that it is mainly people in their late teens/ mothers of teenage kids who've moved out of the family home that I'm buying from. In other words, I buy from former GW customers, GW have already had their money for that product and miss out on a sale to me.
Anecdotal evidence (at best!) - any thoughts?
Quote from: Ithoriel on 17 January 2014, 01:49:38 PM
Idle speculation on my part but could the rise of EBay, coupled with tremendous "churn" in the customer base also be a factor?
I still buy GW products, mainly Warmaster stuff, but I get it all from EBay. THe occasional conversation I have with sellers suggests to me that it is mainly people in their late teens/ mothers of teenage kids who've moved out of the family home that I'm buying from. In other words, I buy from former GW customers, GW have already had their money for that product and miss out on a sale to me.
Anecdotal evidence (at best!) - any thoughts?
Agree to a point. Most of the current GW customers won't use ebay for figures older than a couple of years; they don't know what they are and fit this week's rules.
There is a point there but I believe another issue is equally valid.
Imagine a company vehemently conditions people to buy from them and not on ebay or cheaper vendors.
In the same instance said company lowers their cost as much as they can and justify it in whichever way.
Are "normal people" not compelled to lower THEIR OWN cost as much a spossible?
Are "normal people" not seeing the bigotry to do one thing and tell others how bad they are should they do exactle the same?
Are youngsters not particularly encouraged to do something "forbidden" such as buying from ebay, downloading rules etc just do be "cool" and get one back at the big bad EE?
GW has underestimated social cohesion and networking and instead of adapting their policies they start C&D-ing everyone including Santa Clause. Of course only because Santa has no insurance and could slug it out with them. Why do they go against BoW, BOLS, CHS and so on but CMON can post pictures of Speeeehs Marienz and use GW products (against current IP dogma) in their videos? Maybe because CMON would happily go to court with them and tear them apart while alive?
As Techno hints a bit more interaction and compassion for the hobby and its community would have avoided the shism they are now in. Much like many empires before they cheeringly dug their own grave.
Who or what is CMON?
Cool Mini Or Not...a website dedicated to "rate paintjobs of minis".
But don't you dare to post non-GW minis. Those are ruthlessly downmarked. (crappy painted GW mini 6.3, perfect specimen of Urban War Mini 4.3 at which point I deleted my account.)
All I can see....But I think someone's already commented on the fact that their customer base must be shrinking and shrinking.
Oh....and fsn....What odds are you giving me ? ;)
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: get2grips on 17 January 2014, 01:53:07 PM
Agree to a point. Most of the current GW customers won't use ebay for figures older than a couple of years; they don't know what they are and fit this week's rules.
The teens I know playing GW games are playing about two editions ago rules with a mix of brand new figures bought by granny* and figures from a range of sources and a variety of scales - 20mm, 25mm, 28mm. Watched a 40K game recently where most of the "Imperial Guard" were armed with crossbows and halberds!!
*in this case a shorthand for all relatives with money, access to a local GW store and a vague notion that "little Johnny" does something with toy soldiers.
From the point of view of an outsider (never played WH or WH40K or WH Historical) I've always been amazed and impressed by GW marketing/business strategy which seems to be 'Grab 'em young and drain 'em dry'. Cutting off the supply of new victims sorry hobbyists seems like a strategy for disaster.
But one thing no-one seems to mention is boredom, the GW products haven't changed in about 30 years, it's still WH and WH40K, any new or inovative games have been ruthlessly killed off as GW has sought to concentrate on its key products, they don't seem to realise that the rest of the gaming world is changing and developing.
Like many evil empires they've stagnated, they might well fall which would be a shame for their employees but I doubt the gamers will mourne for long and when it has gone there will be more room for everyone else, with the dinosaur gone the nippy 10mm mammals will evolve into a bright new future.
GW's problem has nothing to do with the company, it is the customers - yeah I know this is heresy. But if one spends any time on forums in which the company and the games are discussed it soon becomes clear that 'the community' - particularly in the US - is insane. It is not so much the obsessiveness that jars, as their complete lack of awareness of anything beyond.
Quote from: fateeore on 17 January 2014, 04:40:30 PM
GW's problem has nothing to do with the company, it is the customers - yeah I know this is heresy. But if one spends any time on forums in which the company and the games are discussed it soon becomes clear that 'the community' - particularly in the US - is insane. It is not so much the obsessiveness that jars, as their complete lack of awareness of anything beyond.
That brings up (a possibly ?) interesting question......Do the prices over the other side of the Pond compare to those elsewhere ?.....Or do they work out (effectively) a good bit cheaper ?
Sorry....I'm too lazy to check...I'm sure someone will know without having to look ;)
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 17 January 2014, 04:59:53 PM
That brings up (a possibly ?) interesting question......Do the prices over the other side of the Pond compare to those elsewhere ?.....Or do they work out (effectively) a good bit cheaper ?
Sorry....I'm too lazy to check...I'm sure someone will know without having to look ;)
Cheers - Phil.
It's nothing to do with price.
A good example is White Dwarf. Read any forum over the past few years and a regular complaint is that the magazine is a catalogue and doesn't have content. So now GW has relaunched the magazine and apparently it will contain new rules - as used to happen in the 'good old days' - and the complaint is that this is a rip off, and how can people keep up with the new rules.
Or another example along the same lines, a while ago over a couple of issues White Dwarf released an uodate to the Sister's of Battle codex. The complaint was that the magazine sold out, and that it was impossible to get a copy, as the website listed it as sold out. It was pointed out that the UK website had copies - and it wwas also pointed out that unsold copies would be returned over the following month - at which point the complaint was that the shipping would be prohibitive from the UK - at which point it was pointed out that it was free shipping over £20 (or whatever) and they could get the magazine and miniature or two - at which point the complaint went back to it being outragious that the magazine was not available in the US (which was factually incorrect given that the interwebz exists)
Which is not to say there are legitimate complaints - Finecast springs to mind - and possibly price - but generally it is just a culture of pointless complaining and carping criticism about everything. So much so that I have long ago concluded that many of these memes are chimps being paid in minis by GW's competitors.
Maybe because the rules are in the codex anyways? :-\
Or maybe because the "content" was freely available on forums/blogs and the GW website before?
A lot of heat GW is getting is unreasonable but where there is smoke there usually is some fire as well.
I find GW bashing quite boring. I'm not really interested in their games, or prices or how they work. Some people think they are killing the hobby, some think they bring in new blood, some people also zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;)
Quote from: Sandinista on 17 January 2014, 06:19:22 PM
I find GW bashing quite boring. I'm not really interested in their games, or prices or how they work. Some people think they are killing the hobby, some think they bring in new blood, some people also zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz ;)
As Phil pointed out, plus ca change...
I keep an eye on what they're up to, but I leave them to it these days. I've decided that every customer they bring in to the 'Hobby' is potentially a customer we'll gain one day, and every customer that turns away from GW is also a customer who we might gain one day. Win-win for us, so stuff GW.
On a business level, unless they're all incompetent, they must realise the spiral they're in, where in view of decreasing sales, all they can do is increase prices to maintain an even keel. No one seems to be looking at the core business, and asking why it isn't generating the money. Why don't they have any fresh idea's? And if they don't have the staff to create original games, then why don't they hire some?
If it was me, I'd be looking at what games were getting good market share, and see where I could fit into that. Whether in a partnership deal, distribution of that game, or simply hiring the author/creator to come and work for me instead. They've got the biggest customer base in this industry, and they're not making the most of it at all.
Quote from: Leon on 17 January 2014, 06:28:33 PM
I've decided that every customer they bring in to the 'Hobby' is potentially a customer we'll gain one day, and every customer that turns away from GW is also a customer who we might gain one day.
Me for one; living proof. Leon, you've seen my spend increase and increase since EE dropped Warmaster.
Their loss, your gain ;)
http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2014/01/16/83338/ (http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2014/01/16/83338/)
Some very interesting comments in that, Will.
Cheers - Phil.
I was a wargamer before GW and will continue to be a wargamer if GW fail.
To me they have always been a niche market. Loved the idea of fantasy battles even used the notes in the back of the WRG ancients book to form armies, but could never get away with GWs need to control lists, uniforms, etc. so never got into it. As for the sci-fi the use of a sword in the distant future left me cold.
Sorry but big gaming companies will come and go. What is needed is a company with great figures and a friendly service which makes an effort to talk and listen to their customers, say a company like. . .Pendraken.
Long may they prosper. :)
Back to the thread.
Prices have always and will continue to rise, but as long as the product is what we want then we will pay what is asked for it.
Its a cruel world !
They who shall not be named have just reported over a 30% loss for 2013, now we didn't see that coming did we. And the shareholders are reported to be slightly jittery at the prospect of no dividends or payouts.It just shows you can only bump your prices up so far and people will start to move away, link that with some unpopular introductions/moves going on in the stores and hey presto, it all starts to go belly up.
Its been going belly up since they started pricing figures by how over powered they were in game. And of course dumping everything but their 2 "flagship" games.
They did produce some really nice rulesets though, Warmaster/Mordhiem/Trafalgar to name but a few, but these rulesets didnt need the flavour of the month over priced character model that you couldnt win without so were consigned to the bin.
I think their drop in profit is more likely down to everyone having less to spend AND a poorly timed massive price hike in their ranges as opposed to a major move away from the dark side
I have opened this thread for that purpose: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9268.30.html
particularly to compare directly a few reasons of success of one competitor who doe snot need to be named :D and the demise of those you shall not be named :D
Concerning your feel Nosher I must object. Done a little analysis (in German though) and in short: They sold much less due to sectioning markets and price increases. Said price hike did not compensate the loss in sales which can be seen from the numbers. Thus people move to alternatives. I stopped after Sales/Earnings/ROE plus cost structure and did not bother with cashflow and more elaborate analysis.
Yes all the above comments are probably true,to a more or lesser degree. but it will be interesting to see what measures they come up with to balance the books, i wouldn't rule out store closures or lay offs,surely they can't put prices up again in an attempt to make up the losses.
Dont bet the farm on it. :D :D :D ;D
They blew it for me; over priced, wrong models on offer, regular changes in rules and armies ...
Quote from: GordonY on 18 January 2014, 05:50:11 PM
Its been going belly up since they started pricing figures by how over powered they were in game. And of course dumping everything but their 2 "flagship" games.
They did produce some really nice rulesets though, Warmaster/Mordhiem/Trafalgar to name but a few, but these rulesets didnt need the flavour of the month over priced character model that you couldnt win without so were consigned to the bin.
I think this must be a big factor, they instantly lost all possible income from those who played the non flagship games.
Had they looked to expand into producing proper "Historical figures" it might have had a big negative impact on wargames manufacturers. Fortunately they did not.
I expect they dropped Warmaster because you could buy figures elswhere and they hate that.
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 18 January 2014, 08:39:50 PM
I expect they dropped Warmaster because you could buy figures elswhere and they hate that.
I suspect they dropped Warmaster because you could buy an army and stop. Not enough special units to hype the price of. Plus, if a hero is a hero is a hero, how do you sell people hugely overpriced characters?
Do wish I'd picked up a set of the Gotrek and Felix figures though :(
Also mourn their refusal to produce the wonderful Mammoth figure because it didn't fit in with the established background fluff. :'(
I've merged the two threads together, easier to keep the discussion in one thread.
8)
Tech clone :)
Well I think if EE they did better advertising they may get new customers. I think I have seen all those those adverts with Kevin Bacon in them I haven't seen 40K mentioned once!
Quote from: Fenton on 18 January 2014, 09:50:25 PM
Well I think if EE they did better advertising they may get new customers. I think I have seen all those those adverts with Kevin Bacon in them I haven't seen 40K mentioned once!
I think they prefer word of mouth...hmm... :-\
That's a problem isn't it...
Quote from: get2grips on 18 January 2014, 09:54:41 PM
I think they prefer word of mouth...hmm... :-\
That's a problem isn't it...
If word of mouth includes:
-overpriced
-unfriendly
-incompetent
-crap
-unbalanced
-overpowered
then yes, very much so.
Problem is they really work against their fans so...
Is is true that they closed their Facebook and Twitter accounts due to the negative comments they were attracting?
Yes! More details in PM?
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 18 January 2014, 11:15:30 PM
Yes! More details in PM?
Well that says a lot about their whole mentality. If you're attracting that much negative attention, then there's probably something you should be looking at as a business. Instead, they've chosen to stick their heads in the sand and ignore it? And close down their whole social networking side, potentially one of the most valuable assets for a business these days?
Quote from: Leon on 18 January 2014, 11:24:16 PM
Well that says a lot about their whole mentality. If you're attracting that much negative attention, then there's probably something you should be looking at as a business. Instead, they've chosen to stick their heads in the sand and ignore it? And close down their whole social networking side, potentially one of the most valuable assets for a business these days?
Correct.
In short:
Some author in the US wrote a book containing the Word Spehs Marihn and EE's legal team got to work. That author published this in her blog, the US author's guild stepped in and threatened to sue GW over said term. Apparently said term had been used in the 1920s and the rights of this particular work would come to bear. Now imagine some crazy judge coming to the conclusion that first use is NOT EE and EE loses the right to sell Spehs Marihns in the land of the free. EE dropped the matter very quickly.
Via FB GW HQ got a real shytstorm and started blocking people like there is no tomorrow. When the Orc had blisters on his/her hands from all that blocking they closed their FB account claiming that any query should be posted to the local store's FB account. The shytstorm continued and GW blocked people again.
One of my friends had been collecting since Rogue Trader and was kicked out of a store for using his old RT Spehs Marihns, I was kicked out for using a non-EE superglue. The fact I had just bought 100 quid worth of their products was not put into consideration and said goods returned on the spot. (Neither my money NOR goods)
As you correctly state social media is a powerful weapon in the business, too bad if you are using it to shoot your foot off. Alienating the whole fanbase, sueing people for no good reason etc. surely pays - as we can see.
Try to find the mastermini blog. The guy did a great analysis. He calls it the EE Management bubble and "black snow".
Quote from: Leon on 18 January 2014, 11:24:16 PM
And close down their whole social networking side, potentially one of the most valuable assets for a business these days?
Social Networking !!!! A bloody waste of time - You would never catch me on a Social networking site ;D
I remember all the Space Marine
TM nonsense, I hadn't realised they'd had to drop their Facebook as a result of it. =)
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 18 January 2014, 11:37:40 PM
Social Networking !!!! A bloody waste of time - You would never catch me on a Social networking site ;D
I'm not sure if you're their target market to be honest... ;D
Quote from: Leon on 19 January 2014, 12:24:58 AM
I'm not sure if you're their target market to be honest... ;D
Yes ... if he had a twin called "Lots 'n lots of orcs" then they might be interested in him though :)
Quote from: get2grips on 18 January 2014, 09:21:20 PM
Tech clone :)
I haven't got one ! :P
Quote from: Just a few Orcs on 18 January 2014, 11:37:40 PM
Social Networking !!!! A bloody waste of time - You would never catch me on a Social networking site ;D
Me neither. :D
But to go back to the point of the thread...It'll be interesting to see what transpires over the next few weeks.
My money's on a range of store closures first.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 19 January 2014, 05:29:04 AM
Yes ... if he had a twin called "Lots 'n lots of orcs" then they might be interested in him though :)
=O =O =O
Quote from: Techno on 19 January 2014, 08:40:32 AM
I haven't got one ! :P
Me neither. :D
But to go back to the point of the thread...It'll be interesting to see what transpires over the next few weeks.
My money's on a range of store closures first.
Cheers - Phil.
Already announced. HQs in Continental Europe are shut down and bigger stores replaced with 1-man stores. Wondering how this one guy is supposed to introduce new gamers while operating the till for sales. Management thinking - doh....
From time to time management brainfarts should be tempered with reality (Roland changing Neru's famous quote)
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 19 January 2014, 10:19:47 AM
Wondering how this one guy is supposed to introduce new gamers while operating the till for sales.
They'll be like "real" wargames shops :)
I think I'd prefer it. Never go into the shops nowadays because of the attitude of the assistants. If they're too busy staffing the till, then I can perhaps have a look around without being harassed.
Though I will probably never get over the self loathing.
So it begins, the sackings start at they who shall not be named.Its confirmed that its staff in HQ America and Europe are finished,except Germany no news as yet,or Australia. White dwarf is gone to be replaced by a weekly newspaper in stores and possibly a monthly rag of sorts. Hit squads of spaca manic managers in black capes are to go into stores and give pep talks and incentives to staff to increase sales{bully and threaten with loss of said job} or be replaced.also looks like games day will go to.Looks like they might be a management fall on your sword contest in the offing to,or perhaps not.
Quote from: Jc on 19 January 2014, 03:20:03 PM
So it begins, the sackings start at they who shall not be named.Its confirmed that its staff in HQ America and Europe are finished,except Germany no news as yet,or Australia. White dwarf is gone to be replaced by a weekly newspaper in stores and possibly a monthly rag of sorts. Hit squads of spaca manic managers in black capes are to go into stores and give pep talks and incentives to staff to increase sales{bully and threaten with loss of said job} or be replaced.also looks like games day will go to.Looks like they might be a management fall on your sword contest in the offing to,or perhaps not.
See my previous post: All continental European HQs are being shut. Panic?
Meh all this blathering, who cares, its only GW, its not like it affects any wargamers.
Quote from: GordonY on 19 January 2014, 03:54:24 PM
Meh all this blathering, who cares, its only GW, its not like it affects any wargamers.
Hear hear :)
Well said :D ;D :D
I conclude we all agree that the potential impact on the rare collection of gents of us is minimal....unless of course Leon trades his spare X Box Controller for the license to produce and sell Spehs Marihns in the very near future. But I trust Adele to prevent this mis-investment :D ;D
Quote from: Jc on 19 January 2014, 03:20:03 PM
White dwarf is gone to be replaced by a weekly newspaper in stores and possibly a monthly rag of sorts.
Good grief !! :o :o :o.....I know I'm completely out of touch....But that, I find
staggering.
It was one of the most important things in my day......
But didn't someone say earlier it had simply turned into a monthly catalogue ?
Dearie dearie me.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: Techno on 19 January 2014, 07:19:04 PM
Good grief !! :o :o :o.....I know I'm completely out of touch....But that, I find staggering.
It was one of the most important things in my day......
But didn't someone say earlier it had simply turned into a monthly catalogue ?
Dearie dearie me.
Cheers - Phil
Yep. :(
First Games Workshop shop I went into only seemed to have one member of staff - Dalling Road, Hammersmith back in ... erm ... nineteen canteen :) Back to their roots then!
While I don't buy from them any more they have been a force in bringing Wargaming into the public consciousness and I think the hobby will lose something if they go, though I'm certainly not writing them off as dead and buried yet by any means.
Looking round shows and non-GW shops there are depressingly few under thirties around, compared with when I came in to the hobby. Also a lot of old fogeys, which is also depressing but only due to the realisation that I am one of those old fogeys :(
I shall watch developments with interest.
was in Merry Hell today. GW 3 staff working, sod all customers.
Shame about WD but yes did turn into a catalogue.
http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/15/customer-experience-interim-2-years-nottingham-uk/
Anyone applying
Quote from: Fenton on 20 January 2014, 10:00:30 AM
http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/15/customer-experience-interim-2-years-nottingham-uk/
Anyone applying
Here's mine:
Dear Games Workshop,
Can I have the job please? You need to be more like Pendraken and I'm happy to be paid for two years and then tell you this.
Please find enclosed a Culry-Wurly in support of my application.
Kind Regards,
Colonel Grips
PS Woof Woof
He said Jehova!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 20 January 2014, 10:34:25 AM
He said Jehova!!!!!!!!!!!
No-one, is to throw any stones, until I blow this whistle...
Isnt Jehova trademarked?...Expect a cease and desist letter from upon high or at least middle management
Quote from: get2grips on 20 January 2014, 11:11:59 AM
No-one, is to throw any stones, until I blow this whistle...
Right.....Who threw that !!
Quote from: Techno on 19 January 2014, 07:19:04 PM
Good grief !! :o :o :o.....I know I'm completely out of touch....But that, I find staggering.
It was one of the most important things in my day......
But didn't someone say earlier it had simply turned into a monthly catalogue ?
Dearie dearie me.
Cheers - Phil
There will be a weekly and a monthly magazine.
A weekly mag covering the new weekly releases (rules etc.) and amonthly 268 pages picture book with roughly 1,000 words (times three - English, German, French). Plus the Ubercodex of the month at the end of that month.
Quote from: Techno on 20 January 2014, 11:29:50 AM
Right.....Who threw that !!
She did, she did.......he did!
Quote from: get2grips on 20 January 2014, 10:08:30 AM
Dear Games Workshop,
Can I have the job please? You need to be more like Pendraken and I'm happy to be paid for two years and then tell you this.
Please find enclosed a Culry-Wurly in support of my application.
I think you forgot "I think Space Marines (tm) are cool!"
Quotehttp://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/15/customer-experience-interim-2-years-nottingham-uk/
Anyone applying
Now that looks like PANIC!!!!!!!
I wonder what they're thinking of paying? It's also interesting that in the vacancy list there are 4 vacancies for finance staff - I herewith pressent the last meeting of the Board in the Crypt beneath the EE headquarters.
Our profits are down
Why?
We're not selling as much stuff as before!
What can we do?
Increase prices.
We're selling even less!
Why?
Our customers are buying other things
Why?
They've got bored with our hugely expensive products and have started looking at alternatives.
What can we do?
Release a new version
We haven't sold any of the new version, our profits are still going down.
Why?
Our customers have finally noticed the new version is the same as the previous 5 versions
Lets find some new products!
We can't do that.
Why?
We've closed down R&D and all non-core product production. Anything which might have been developed was killed off years ago and we've sacked all our creative staff
Where are they?
Working for the completion, the traitors.
Can't we hire new creative staff?
No.
Why?
Anyone who wants to work for us only understands our existing products, all they could do would be to release a new version.
Why?
That's all we've let them play and think about for 10 years.
Why?
To maximise the sales of our product.
Can't we hire other designers?
No!
Why?
Because everyone hates us, they think we'll either suck out their brains and steal their ideas or stifle their creative dreams, hopes and aspirations under our corporate identity.
Will we?
Of course!
Why?
Because that's how we became the Greatest Gaming Company in the Universe!!!
So what can we do?
Hire more accounts!!!!
Why?
Someone's got to count the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Dan J, I'm not sure that is what is going on.
The company, and it's critics, would be wise to read the Stephen J Gould essay Phyletic Size Decrease in Hershey Bars.
Quote from: get2grips on 20 January 2014, 11:37:11 AM
She did, she did.......he did!
Are there any
women here ?
But back to the point.....This becomes more and more staggering, the more we hear !! :o :o :o :o :o
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: fsn on 20 January 2014, 12:34:56 PM
I think you forgot "I think Space Marines (tm) are cool!"
My Bad:
Dear Games Workshop,
Can I have the job please? You need to be more like Pendraken and I'm happy to be paid for two years and then tell you this.
I think Space Marines
tm are really cool; but only the new ones; not the ones from two years ago; and only from GW.
Please find enclosed a Curly-Wurly in support of my application.
Kind Regards,
Colonel Grips
PS Woof Woof
Quote from: Techno on 20 January 2014, 01:33:13 PM
But back to the point.....This becomes more and more staggering, the more we hear !! :o :o :o :o :o
Cheers - Phil.
Check this out, taken, verbatim, from their job specs:
Strong cultures require some getting used to. Some people, perfectly naturally, will find ours too much for them, or not to their taste. We accept and acknowledge this fact. This is why we are so concerned to get a good fit between Games Workshop's personality and those of all the staff. People who don't fit or who 'play' at fitting, will be unhappy. We are pretty tolerant and you may be able to get away with it for a while, but you will still be unhappy.
Read
between the lines :-\
Quote from: get2grips on 20 January 2014, 02:11:59 PM
Check this out, taken, verbatim, from their job specs:
Strong cultures require some getting used to. Some people, perfectly naturally, will find ours too much for them, or not to their taste. We accept and acknowledge this fact. This is why we are so concerned to get a good fit between Games Workshop's personality and those of all the staff. People who don't fit or who 'play' at fitting, will be unhappy. We are pretty tolerant and you may be able to get away with it for a while, but you will still be unhappy.Read between the lines :-\
I've literally just read that Gareth......Went thro' loads of the vacancies.....I notice that they've been advertising for a mini designer since last Sept.....No takers then ?.....They're losing their touch !
Quote from: Fenton on 20 January 2014, 10:00:30 AM
http://careers.games-workshop.com/2014/01/15/customer-experience-interim-2-years-nottingham-uk/Anyone applying
Er....I think not ! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: Techno on 20 January 2014, 02:17:51 PM
I notice that they've been advertising for a mini designer since last Sept.....No takers then ?.....They're losing their touch !
Cheers - Phil.
You do know they work in 28mm don't you Phil ;)
Just thought I'd mention it in case you were thinking of applying ;D
Me apply ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Them actually consider having me back ? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Both about as likely as me winning the jackpot on the lottery two weeks on the bounce !
Cheers - Phil
While I DO think GW would surely profit from someone like Phil I also think Phil would not want to lower himself like that.
That said do apply and have a laugh how much they (reluctantly) pay you.
Since I am a forgiving person they can have me and my "personality" for a grand a day. Plus expenses, relocation and signing bonus of course. Although I am German I shall be bold enough to say that changing their culture more towards me would be beneficial for all gamers...
Quote from: Ithoriel on 19 January 2014, 07:49:01 PM
Looking round shows and non-GW shops there are depressingly few under thirties around, compared with when I came in to the hobby. Also a lot of old fogeys, which is also depressing but only due to the realisation that I am one of those old fogeys :(
Well i'm 28, and i must say i experience the same thing. I'm mostly the youngest. The guys i game with are in their 40ies/50ies.
Sure i can find younger gamers if i want to play warhammer/40k/warmachine but that mostly means you find a bunch of ruleslawyers with army lists dripping with 2 year old cheddar :-& :-& :-& L-)
I used to enjoy that game when it was al friendly like and not stuffed with uber rules.
I'm a bit curious about the x wing posse in my local game shop though, got informed there are regular x wing nights so might pop in once to see how that's like...
Well Techno with your skill, you could show them how to make a real bobby dazzler in flop cast. opps i forgot its gone as well to be replaced by plastic (injection molded i guess to preserve the 300%+mark up) no white metal as it would reduce the profit margins. I wonder if they have been looking at Mantic nearby in Nottingham to see how its done with envy. But wait a minute its run by ex EE workers who left to go it alone,and escape the draconian yoke.******** ( cease and desist-------- we at the evil empire still make the best miniatures, honest. P.S please come in our shops,no please do, we have candy and cake).******
I was going to apply, but they don't have a vacancy for 'Chief in Charge of Everything and Stuff'... :P Strange as it may sound, I'd actually jump at the chance to go in there and work on a management level, to try and instill some customer service into their whole company. The only thing which would put me off is the boardroom full of shareholders, who wouldn't let me actually do what needs to be done, because some twerp with a GCSE in stapling showed them a graph with loads of fancy numbers on it.
Don't you dare!
What would we (the pricks on the Pendraken cactus) do if you defected?
I dont need 2 years to tell them how to do it better, thats so fkn easy its cheating, bring back all those "specialist" games, stop bringing out uber-codexes, bring out one ruleset (with all codexes included) that doesnt rely on "special" rules. Now that would be a start.
Quote from: Leon on 20 January 2014, 07:05:17 PM
I was going to apply, but they don't have a vacancy for 'Chief in Charge of Everything and Stuff'... :P Strange as it may sound, I'd actually jump at the chance to go in there and work on a management level, to try and instill some customer service into their whole company. The only thing which would put me off is the boardroom full of shareholders, who wouldn't let me actually do what needs to be done, because some twerp with a GCSE in stapling showed them a graph with loads of fancy numbers on it.
Leon, that is not a nice way to talk about Dave :D
Dave you know I am kidding right and thoroughly appreciate your last minute casting of my orders, especially for World despite the fact there were several reminders about deadlines
Dare you Colonel Grips! 8) 8) :d
Quote from: GordonY on 19 January 2014, 03:54:24 PM
Meh all this blathering, who cares, its only GW, its not like it affects any wargamers.
Why doesn't this forum have a "Like" button :D :D :D
Quote from: andys on 20 January 2014, 09:41:32 PM
Why doesn't this forum have a "Like" button :D :D :D
;D ;D ;D
Oh aye ;)
Quote from: get2grips on 20 January 2014, 02:11:59 PM
Check this out, taken, verbatim, from their job specs:
Strong cultures require some getting used to. Some people, perfectly naturally, will find ours too much for them, or not to their taste. We accept and acknowledge this fact. This is why we are so concerned to get a good fit between Games Workshop's personality and those of all the staff. People who don't fit or who 'play' at fitting, will be unhappy. We are pretty tolerant and you may be able to get away with it for a while, but you will still be unhappy.
Read between the lines :-\
Jehova, how desperate for a job would you have to be to apply to a firm who wrote THAT?
Or
Jehova, how up your own **** would you have to be to apply to a firm who wrote THAT?
Stoning to commence at your leisure... ;)
That's a company that doesn't want people to apply.
:o :o :o :o
Astonishing !!
Cheers - Phil.
Au contraire my chaps.
This is a company that wants a particular kind of people to apply. The only kind of people where KPI driven strategies work for a prolonged time.
They need pople without higher ambition such as improving themselves and the product. People that do not question status quo ("black snow" phenomenon).
Further elaborations concerning HR and business would certainly bore you and quite swiftly move to a rant against certain business practices so familiar these days.
I HATE the term HR: it is demeaning and ugly. >:(
They are people.
QuoteI HATE the term HR: it is demeaning and ugly.
They are people.
As far as many HR depts are concerned staff aren't people, they're not even human, they are simply a resource to be used like any other. >:(
Having said that when I'm planning a project I make d**n sure my human resource allocations are firmly nailed down, preferably through their feet so they can't wander off for a coffee or something when they should be working. ;)
Teachers and pupils in schools have now turned into UK economic HR, and nothing more!
Quote from: andys on 20 January 2014, 09:49:18 PM
Jehova, how desperate for a job would you have to be to apply to a firm who wrote THAT?
Maybe there's an alternative scenario......of sorts. :-\
I believe a firm MUST advertise the fact that they are recruiting......Even if they
already have folk lined up to fill the vacancies.
By making the jobs sound as potentially awful as possible....No one applies....And the already mentioned folk above, simply stroll in to their new jobs.
Not saying that's what's happening in this case.....But it's a thought.
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: get2grips on 21 January 2014, 09:10:57 AM
I HATE the term HR: it is demeaning and ugly. >:(
They are people.
Whatever you call them is of secondary importance. HOW you TREAT them is the issue I am taking.
As you said they are human being not robots. If you want ever obyeing robots seek elsewhere. If you want humans that try to advance you then you are welcome.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 21 January 2014, 10:22:30 AM
Whatever you call them is of secondary importance. HOW you TREAT them is the issue I am taking.
As you said they are human being not robots. If you want ever obyeing robots seek elsewhere. If you want humans that try to advance you then you are welcome.
Hear hear: my point exactly.
The term HR is inhuman; as are many of the companies who use HR departments to brow beat and bully their staff.
The lovely side to all of this is that, the "strong culture" described in the advert doesn't see to be working does it? :)
Quote from: get2grips on 21 January 2014, 10:26:14 AM
Hear hear: my point exactly.
The term HR is inhuman; as are many of the companies who use HR departments to brow beat and bully their staff.
The lovely side to all of this is that, the "strong culture" described in the advert doesn't see to be working does it? :)
Apparently not :P
And tbh HR departments are part suffering from it and part to blame as well.
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 21 January 2014, 10:58:37 AM
Apparently not :P
And tbh HR departments are part suffering from it and part to blame as well.
For sure: part of the modern world. I, for one, don't like it. :(
I for one have no objection to reasonable price increases, especially when raw materials/utilities etc are on the rise. Giving a great customer service keeps me loyal. I was an avid GW fan for about 16 years but the way they had to reinvent the wheel so that the latest 40K codex was the army that won started me looking elsewhere for new things to feed my addiction, plus the 50% to 80% price increase for the essentials (Rule books etc) was too much for my wallet to bear. :(
I am not the quickest builder of armies but this year I am hoping to get into Napoleonic in 10mm so once I decide on a rule set I will be looking to make a few ;) purchases.
HR - Human Remains =)
The friendly* HR department at my place are "fondly" known as Human Rectums**
* I'm lying. No one would ever describe them as that.
** I'm not lying. A complete bunch of ****holes.
Quote from: andys on 21 January 2014, 07:12:04 PM
The friendly* HR department at my place are "fondly" known as Human Rectums**
* I'm lying. No one would ever describe them as that.
** I'm not lying. A complete bunch of ****holes.
Shh...they're always listening :-SS
Well if no-one else is going to apply I think I shall... beats joining the army to see the world :D
I might need some help with the letter..... :-[ unacustomed as I am to job applications of late...
tough choice Head Teacher of a small school or world travel....hmmmmmm
I have always fancied Mongolia and of course Northern Canada, Colombia and New Zealand.... I can bring you back some pressies if I get the job :)
Hate me guys but I think I gonna apply.... :-\
QuoteHate me guys but I think I gonna apply.
Good luck, if nothing else the experience would probably interesting...
After a more detailed read of the job advert and the GW vacancies site (it has a certain morbid facination), a couple of observations.
There is no salary, elsewhere on the site they say pay depends on experience and how well you do. Fair enough but some sort of indication would be useful.
No indication of skill set they're looking for, marketing analysis would probably be useful as would business analysis and probably experience in developing retail and customer service.
The post is only looking at the shops, nothing about how they fit into the wider business picture, I wonder if that means they aren't capturing the kids like they used to and management only see a dip in shop sales and not the overall picture.
No indication about developing or changing the product range, the shops can only sell what they're sent, without a product revamp I think GW will continue to dwindle. I suspect the LotR injected a huge amount of cash but the Hobbit films don't seem to have had the same impact on the imagination and only 1 bloke at the club has bought any Hobbit stuff because basically it's the same as the LotR and people have got bored playing a bloated skirmish game.
Quote from: DanJ on 22 January 2014, 11:44:24 AM
a bloated skirmish game.
What he said...
In a nutshell...
Isn't that the crux of their current situation. A repeated formula. Having bought and played several GW games over three decades it goes like this:
Bring out a nice new game packed full of goodies.
Bring out the other armies to support it.
Bring out a few Uber units.
Bring out more Uber units.
Bring out too many Uber units and wreck playability.
Discontinue game.
Bring out a nice new game packed full of goodies..................................
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: sebigboss79 on 22 January 2014, 10:54:46 AM
Hate me guys but I think I gonna apply.... :-\
Good luck. You can always come back here to be brought back from the influence of the Dark Side (as opposed to the Dark Lord who is a benevolent dictator. Praise him and the XBox he rode in on.)
QuoteBring out a nice new game packed full of goodies
Except they're not brining out any nice new games any more, there is Warhammer, WarHammer 40K and the Hobbit (AKA Lord of the Rings). That's their product range. The other stuff under Specialist Games is empty, a few old rule books and a couple of figures for some of the systems and that's it.
Blood Bowl is about the only other game they produce and that's ancient.
Time was if you got bored of WH40K you could buy other products and games from GW, they're all gone now as GW
retrench concentrate on their 'core' products. This is very short sighted as it reduces revenue to GW but more importantly it allows
punters GW Hobbyists to see there are other companies out there so they get used to the idea there are other games and gaming companies so they drift away into the wider world. It also reduces the pool of ideas from which new products could come.
(https://scontent-a-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31/1614523_710794672285559_104815467_o.jpg)
Used without proper credits and copyright in the new WD. The owner of the bases has been advised and legal action suggested.
IF someone uses GW pictures without a full A4 page of credits they sue you but they feel OK to do whatever they feel like.
Bigots.
How big ARE these Ots, Seb ? ;)
Cheers - Phil
If Nik was in the Totty thread.....HUGE! :D