I want to have an army to recreate big battle in the middle-Earth so...
Gondor
1 Cleric (Gandalf and Pippin) = 1X3 pts 3 pts
2 Lancers (Lancers of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts
2 Shooters (Archers of Gondor) 2X2 = 4 pts pts FHE1
2 Warriors (Warriors of Gondor 2X2 = 4 pts pts
2 Knights (Knights of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts
1 Artillery (of Gondor Trebuchet) 1X3 = 3 pts pts FHE10
1 Flyer (Giant Eagle) 1X2 = 2 pts pts FE9
ROHAN
1 Hero (Eomer) 4pts
6 Riders (Rohirrim light) 6X2 pts = 12pts N9
4 Knights (heavy Rohirrim) = 4X2 pts 8 pts
Isengard
1 Hero General (Lurtz) 4 pts
2 Riders (Warg Riders) = 2X2 pts 4 pts
4 Lancers (Huruk-hai Pikemen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts
4 Warriors (Warriors Huruk-hai) = 4X2 pts 8 pts
MORDOR
1 Hero (Witch King) 4 pts
3 Lancers (Haradrim) 3X2 = 6 pts pts
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) Mumakil 2X4 = 8 pts pts
6 hordes (Orcs) 6X1 = 6 pts pts
Either I make this list is I separate the Haradrim of Mordor. In this case, it gives:
MORDOR
1 Hero Aerial (Witch King) 6pts
5 horde (orcs) = 5X1 pts 5 pts
2 Behemoth (trolls) = 2X4 pts 8 pts
1 Artillery (catapult) 1X3 = 3 pts
1 Flyer (Nazgûl) 1X2 = 2 pts
Harada
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) = 2X4 pts 8 pts
4 Lancers (Haradrim Spearmen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts
4 shooters (Haradrim Archers) = 4X2 pts 8 pts
I've just begun to indicate the code for the miniatures corresponding the best with.
There are some Pendraken figures that would do well for a lot of these, but for any 10mm LOTR also take a look at Copplestone Castings Fantasy range - very LOTR including wraiths, wraiths on flying beasts, horse people royal guard, lancers and horse archers and lots of smaller and larger orcs, trolls and wolf riders.
Also do a search on ebay now and again for BOFA (Battle of the Five armies) figures - some were also modelled by Copplestone i think - they include dwarf , lakemen and elf archers and spearmen and orcs/goblins and wolf riders and giant eagles in plastic, plus there were some metal figures - wood elf cavalry, great goblin's guards, etc.
Copplestone doesn't have anything much in the way of haradrim or easterling style figures - Pendraken or GW or old glory Arabs or Mamluks or huns and goths might do for that.
I was watching Copplestone a few days ago and there are many interesting miniatures, yeah.
Thanks for your advices.
The Pendraken mammoth would make a great mumalak
The BoFA figures are nice, but are quite small, and cast in strips. Some of the plastics come up on eBay from time to time, but the metal ones are very rare.
You could do the whole Gondor list from the HE (apart from hobbits)
PD goblins would certainly work as Orcs.
Do you think I can file the mammuth?
what do you need to file?
I'll add a few suggestions:
Gondor
1 Cleric (Gandalf and Pippin) = 1X3 pts 3 pts - AC19
2 Lancers (Lancers of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE7?
2 Shooters (Archers of Gondor) 2X2 = 4 pts pts FHE1
2 Warriors (Warriors of Gondor 2X2 = 4 pts pts - FHE5 High Elf with sword.
2 Knights (Knights of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE8
1 Artillery (of Gondor Trebuchet) 1X3 = 3 pts pts - FHE10
1 Flyer (Giant Eagle) 1X2 = 2 pts pts - FE9
ROHAN
1 Hero (Eomer) 4pts -
6 Riders (Rohirrim light) 6X2 pts = 12pts - N9
4 Knights (heavy Rohirrim) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - N7
Isengard
1 Hero General (Lurtz) 4 pts
2 Riders (Warg Riders) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - Maybe the Orc-Riders?
4 Lancers (Huruk-hai Pikemen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO14 Orc with spear
4 Warriors (Warriors Huruk-hai) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Other Orc codes?
MORDOR
1 Hero (Witch King) 4 pts
3 Lancers (Haradrim) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - Arabs?
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) Mumakil 2X4 = 8 pts pts - AC6 Mammoths with howdahs
6 hordes (Orcs) 6X1 = 6 pts pts - As Fred says, I'd use Goblins for these.
Either I make this list is I separate the Haradrim of Mordor. In this case, it gives:
MORDOR
1 Hero Aerial (Witch King) 6pts
5 horde (orcs) = 5X1 pts 5 pts - More Goblins?
2 Behemoth (trolls) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - FT Trolls?
1 Artillery (catapult) 1X3 = 3 pts - AC7 with whatever crew you'd like?
1 Flyer (Nazgûl) 1X2 = 2 pts - FTL11 Flyer, but you'd need to file off the rider on the back
Harada
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - AC6 again
4 Lancers (Haradrim Spearmen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Arabs?
4 shooters (Haradrim Archers) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Arab archers?
Quote from: Leon on 29 November 2011, 09:07:03 PM
I'll add a few suggestions:
Gondor
1 Cleric (Gandalf and Pippin) = 1X3 pts 3 pts - AC19
2 Lancers (Lancers of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE7?
2 Shooters (Archers of Gondor) 2X2 = 4 pts pts FHE1
2 Warriors (Warriors of Gondor 2X2 = 4 pts pts - FHE5 High Elf with sword.
2 Knights (Knights of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE8
1 Artillery (of Gondor Trebuchet) 1X3 = 3 pts pts - FHE10
1 Flyer (Giant Eagle) 1X2 = 2 pts pts - FE9
ROHAN
1 Hero (Eomer) 4pts -
6 Riders (Rohirrim light) 6X2 pts = 12pts - N9
4 Knights (heavy Rohirrim) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - N7
Isengard
1 Hero General (Lurtz) 4 pts
2 Riders (Warg Riders) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - Maybe the Orc-Riders?
4 Lancers (Huruk-hai Pikemen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO14 Orc with spear
4 Warriors (Warriors Huruk-hai) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Other Orc codes?
MORDOR
1 Hero (Witch King) 4 pts
3 Lancers (Haradrim) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - Arabs?
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) Mumakil 2X4 = 8 pts pts - AC6 Mammoths with howdahs
6 hordes (Orcs) 6X1 = 6 pts pts - As Fred says, I'd use Goblins for these.
Either I make this list is I separate the Haradrim of Mordor. In this case, it gives:
MORDOR
1 Hero Aerial (Witch King) 6pts
5 horde (orcs) = 5X1 pts 5 pts - More Goblins?
2 Behemoth (trolls) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - FT Trolls?
1 Artillery (catapult) 1X3 = 3 pts - AC7 with whatever crew you'd like?
1 Flyer (Nazgûl) 1X2 = 2 pts - FTL11 Flyer, but you'd need to file off the rider on the back
Harada
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - AC6 again
4 Lancers (Haradrim Spearmen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Arabs?
4 shooters (Haradrim Archers) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - Arab archers?
Thank you, Leon! This will help!
Surely - Gandalf would be a magician general? Pippin is a sneaker! :-\
Quote from: Arsenus on 29 November 2011, 09:38:27 PM
Just a lime to smooth th fur.
I think that trying to smooth the fur by filing won't work.
You may have more chance at filling the gaps with some green stuff - but even this sounds hard work
(http://www.kerynne.com/games/images/WMDoW/Mammoth.JPG)
yep just had a look at mine and filing is going to be a total pain, and filling tricky too. In the film the things are way too big, I cant remember from the book but I just think they are classed as big, one presumes that to a hobbit at 3 foot a normal elephant is going to look huge :D
go for the mammoth it is fantasy after all :D
There's always the Carthaginian elephant:
(http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/ACA7.jpg) (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ACA7-p2756/[/url)
I think I will use the Mammuth because his tusks are big!
And THAT's fantasy!^^
Thanks for advice me.
I don't understand pikemen with lances (or is it lancers with pikes?). Some strange HoTT thing?
No sorry! I was tired and I was writting wrong things. You must read spearmen.
LOTR in 10mm mmmm thats something very close to my heart. I actually have a full set of (playtested over several years) rules for this scale and this setting. Maybe sometime I`ll try persuade Leon to add the stuff to the site forums as a free link download. Contains full army lists, points system, magic, and siege warfare.
Six :)
Sounds interesting!
Gondor
1 Cleric (Gandalf and Pippin) = 1X3 pts 3 pts - AC19
2 Spearmen (Spearmen of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE2?
2 Shooters (Archers of Gondor) 2X2 = 4 pts pts FHE1
2 Warriors (Warriors of Gondor 2X2 = 4 pts pts - FHE5
2 Knights (Knights of Gondor) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FHE8
1 Artillery (of Gondor Trebuchet) 1X3 = 3 pts pts - FHE10
1 Flyer (Giant Eagle) 1X2 = 2 pts pts - FE9
ROHAN
1 Hero (Eomer) 4pts - N10?
6 Riders (Rohirrim light) 6X2 pts = 12pts - N9
4 Knights (heavy Rohirrim) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - N7
Isengard
1 Hero General (Lurtz) 4 pts - ?
2 Riders (Warg Riders) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FG4
4 Spearmen (Huruk-hai Pikemen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO14
4 Warriors (Warriors Huruk-hai) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO2
MORDOR
1 Hero (Witch King) 4 pts - ?
3 Spearmen (Haradrim) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - AB2
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) Mumakil 2X4 = 8 pts pts - AC6
3 Warbands (Orcs) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - FG1 FG8
Either I make this list is I separate the Haradrim of Mordor. In this case, it gives:
MORDOR
1 Hero Aerial (Witch King) 6pts - ?
3 Warbands (orcs) = 3X2 pts 6 pts - FG1 FG8
2 Behemoth (trolls) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - FT1 FT2 FT4
1 Artillery (catapult) 1X3 = 3 pts - AC7a
1 Flyer (Nazgûl) 1X2 = 2 pts - FTL11 Flyer, but you'd need to file off the rider on the back
Harada
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - AC6 again
4 Lancers (Haradrim Spearmen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - AB2 AB4
4 shooters (Haradrim Archers) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - AB3 AB5
+ AB1 fot the standard bearers!
personally i'd make Mordor only have 1 mumakil in it and include some Easterling axemen (blades) and Easterling cavalry (knights or horsearchers) in it too, but i generally don't like DBA/HOTT when they're limited to 12 bases per army - i quite like DBM style ones while you can make bigger armies and have different grades of troops
With HOTT you can do massive battles with 48 or 72 AP without problems! You must just have a large table.
Interesting list Arsenus.
A few comments.
In HOTT there's no such troop class as 'warrior'.
Gondor
Why make Gandalf/Pippin a Cleric? Clerics are worshippers of Gods who suppress magic. Gandalf was a wizard and although rare he did use magic in battle. Also, why is he the general? He didn't lead the forces of Gondor.
Gondor's artillery was very poor and outranged by the orc artillery of Mordor. They also only used it in defence of the White City so perhaps remove it?
Also Gondor didn't have the support of the Great Eagles...it was Gandalf that summoned them.
Rohan
In HOTT terms, most of the Riders of Rohan should be classed as Knights (they charged ferociously and often). They had very small numbers of horse archers, so perhaps no more than 1 or 2 Rider bases. Also, they did dismount (e.g. at the Fords of Isen, where they fought on foot from defences. I'd give the option of replacing a few knights with spearmen.
Isengard
There's no such character as Lurtz. Most of the armies of Isengard were led by Dunlending generals.
Isengard didn't use wargs. Saruman never made and alliance with these creatures.
The Uruk Hai were very few in number and didn't use 'pikes'. they are better represented as Blades.
The majority of Isengards forces were Dunlendings and orcs - but best represented as a mix of warband and hordes. There were a few horsemen (Riders) and the Dunlendings are describes as using axes or 'pikes', so maybe a few spear elements should be included with the warband.
I'd drop the mixed Mordor/Harad list, The separate lists are better.
:)
Thank you for the comments.
You're right for many things.
Gondor
I found Gandalf used as Cleric in a list but effectively I can use him as Magician, that's right.
Artillery is here because I see Gondor as a defensive army but maybe can I remove it to Knights?
Great Eagles are here because there is Gandalf but I can remove them too.
Need to think twice more for this list.
Rohan
For me Riders have better move than Knights and are less armoured than Knights so I put Riders but you're right they charged!^^
Isengard
Lurtz is (If I'm don't wrong) in the movie, no?
Wargs are in the movie and I thinked that was cool to have some of them in the army.
In the movie again, There many Huruk-hai with pikes. but you're right I can change them to blades.
Mordor and Harrad
I think the separate lists are better too!^^
No worries old boy.
I certainly don't think your lists are wrong.
It might be worth doing a 'movie list', and a 'book list', since the forces in the book are much different to those in the movie!!
My comments were based on the book(s).
'Lurtz' is in the movie for example but is a creation of Mr Jackson (prseumably to personify the 'bad guys' into and identifiable 'character'). Not in the book though.
Quote from: Dunnadd on 02 December 2011, 06:46:52 PM
personally i'd make Mordor only have 1 mumakil in it and include some Easterling axemen (blades) and Easterling cavalry (knights or horsearchers) in it too, but i generally don't like DBA/HOTT when they're limited to 12 bases per army - i quite like DBM style ones while you can make bigger armies and have different grades of troops
HOTT doesn't limit forces to 12 bases, but uses AP like DBM.
Each army is 24AP, and so larger armies can be made by taking multiple 24AP 'armies'. Its actually a rellay good game - preferable in terms of rules and flows of play to DBA i think.
Of course, I forgot Strongholds!^^
Gondor
Minas Tirith
Rohan
Helm's deep
Isengard
Saroumane's Tower
Mordor
Mount Doom with Black Door
Harrad
A camp in the desert
Quote from: Arsenus on 03 December 2011, 01:42:26 PM
Of course, I forgot Strongholds!^^
Mordor
Mount Doom with Black Door
Rather a large model, that! It would take a lot more than my table, I fancy.
;D ;D
It's just to have a Stronghold. I will NOT make it in the same scale!^^
Incidentally, you may want to review Luke Ueda-Sarson's lists/research here http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/MiddleEarthintro.html (http://www.ne.jp/asahi/luke/ueda-sarson/MiddleEarthintro.html).
He covers DBM, DBA and HotT lists.
I don't neccessarily agree with some of his decisions, but he explains his logic in the list notes and its definately a resource taking a look at.
Quote from: Luddite on 03 December 2011, 09:28:03 AM
Isengard didn't use wargs. Saruman never made and alliance with these creatures.
Luddite, I'm sure there is mention of Sauraman's armies having troops of wolf-riders when the hobbits and treebeard watch them marching out of Isengard in TTT.
Yup, they did!
Quote from: sunjester on 20 December 2011, 07:24:31 PM
Luddite, I'm sure there is mention of Sauraman's armies having troops of wolf-riders when the hobbits and treebeard watch them marching out of Isengard in TTT.
Wargs aren't wolves, they're intelligent (speaking) creatures that are 'large and wolf-like'.
Saruman did have some minor alliances with the Goblin men to the north (around the Misty Mountain) and some of those tribes rode wolves. It's likely that's what's being referred too.
In his alliance with Mordor, Saruman also had a small contingent of Mordor Orcs, which if i recall were the stock he used to breed the Uruk Hai from. But Morder Orcs didn't ride wolves either (the 'Hounds of Sauron' (probably wolves but maybe wargs) fought in their own right for him).
Hello everyone, that was a long time bit I'm back now! :)
2012 was a not as good as 2011 year but I'm victorious! :)
I want to re-work the LOTR armies.
See you soon!
Good to hear you are still with us sir! :)
I'm actually planning to play The war of the Ring (yes, the GW rules) in 10mm. (and sell all my 28mm)
For Uruk-hai, I'd use the pikemen from late medieval , cut feathers, paint the legs and the flesh in brown.
Same for Crossbow men.
For Rohan, I'd use Late roman.
For Gondor, don't know yet. Maybe a mix form Dark age and medieval.
Maybe I'll use some Copplestone for the orcs.
By the way, this is what I am working on right now for this project :
(the base is 40 x 20 mm)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/543766_10151352380759463_294162445_n.jpg)
Looks fine!
Hey Arsensus welcome back. How goes it???
I am working on the One Ring in 10mm using mainly pendraken for the baddies and copplestone for the goodies (sorry Leon the kids got me them for Christmas). :-[
I dont need Uruk hai as it is set 5 years after the battle of the 5 armies :D
I am liking the look of that beastie Barbarian... is it going to be a nazgul?
Hi Maenoferren!
It goes not bad at all! :)
Sounds interesting! :)
Can't wait to see the dragon finish! :)
Nice work there Barbarian 8)
Great minds think alike Maenoferren, I'm planning on playing 'The One Ring' in 10mm too :D I must admit I'm using some Copplestone figs too, be daft to ignore them as they are LotR specific and excellent sculpts. Mark has been threatening to release a range of Dwarves for a while too.
Cheers,
Kev
Some changes...
Gondor
1 Magician (Gandalf and Pippin) = 1X4 pts 4 pts - AC19
4 Spearmen (Spearmen of Gondor) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FHE2?
4 Shooters (Archers of Gondor) 4X2 = 8 pts pts FHE1
2 Knights (Knights of Gondor) = 2x2 = 4 pts FHE8
ROHAN
1 Hero (Eomer) 4pts - N10?
2 Riders (Rohirrim light) 2X2 pts = 4 pts - N9
8 Knights (heavy Rohirrim) = 8X2 pts 16 pts - N7
Isengard
1 Hero General (Lurtz) 4 pts - ?
2 Riders (Warg Riders) = 2X2 pts 4 pts - FG4
4 Spearmen (Huruk-hai Pikemen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO14
4 Warbands (Warriors Huruk-hai) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - FO2
MORDOR
1 Hero (Witch King) 4 pts - ?
3 Spearmen (Haradrim) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - AB2
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) Mumakil 2X4 = 8 pts pts - AC6
3 Warbands (Orcs) 3X2 = 6 pts pts - FG1 FG8
Either I make this list is I separate the Haradrim of Mordor. In this case, it gives:
MORDOR
1 Hero Aerial (Witch King) 6pts - ?
3 Warbands (orcs) = 3X2 pts 6 pts - FG1 FG8
2 Behemoth (trolls) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - FT1 FT2 FT4
1 Artillery (catapult) 1X3 = 3 pts - AC7a
1 Flyer (Nazgûl) 1X2 = 2 pts - FTL11 Flyer, but you'd need to file off the rider on the back
Harada
2 Behemoth (Mumakil) = 2X4 pts 8 pts - AC6 again
4 Lancers (Haradrim Spearmen) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - AB2 AB4
4 shooters (Haradrim Archers) = 4X2 pts 8 pts - AB3 AB5
+ AB1 fot the standard bearers!
Why would you need to file the rider off the Nazgul? :-\
As I remember, the flyer is not a nazgul-like. :)
But I'm not sure to do a nazgul for the time... I will start with Rohan army and Harrad, it more easier! :)
Eureka made a Mumakil like but 15 Aussie Dollars !!!
A little of conversion by Vincent (a french Warmaster player)
(http://www.brimarx.com/pub/wm/tempete_ames/WM_Mumakil_3.jpg)
My dragon is a "Retributive Spirit on flying horror". Definitely not a Nazgul. ;) :P
I saw the mumakil on their site but it's very too expensive!
And the Pendraken mammoth...well! I love it! :D
Was thinking about buying a Pendraken mammoth and make longer legs.
Or, sculpt one Giant elephant form scratch.
Quote from: barbarian on 31 January 2013, 05:36:24 PM
For Uruk-hai, I'd use the pikemen from late medieval , cut feathers, paint the legs and the flesh in brown.
The Uruk Hai never used pikes.
Those that fought for Sauron used 'crooked swords' (probably scimitars?). Those that fought for Saruman were armed with 'short broad-bladed swords', as Aragorn notes when he encounters them and notes that they were armed unusually.
Their use of pikes depicted in the movies is actually a conflation with the Dunlending men who apparently used pikes to defend the Fords at Isen. Even with those, the term 'pike' may actually refer to spears as is seems unlikely that pike blocks would be able to deploy in defensive trenches!
Also the Uruk Hain skin was black, not brown.
Quote
For Rohan, I'd use Late roman.
Excellent choice. I used those too.
Quote
For Gondor, don't know yet. Maybe a mix form Dark age and medieval.
I'd go with Medieval. The Gondor men appear to have been like Medieval knights of the 'Chivalry' period, with heavy armour and caprisons, especially the Roquen. They also appear to have had bright and varied heraldry, not the flat uniform metal depicted in the fllms.
Quote from: barbarian on 01 February 2013, 05:15:01 PM
Was thinking about buying a Pendraken mammoth and make longer legs.
Or, sculpt one Giant elephant form scratch.
For the Mumakil?
Aye, or use maybe 15mm or 20mm elephants?
I think the film depiction had them much larger than they should have been though, although its difficult to tell as the only references to their size are by Samwise who i think refers to them being 'as big as a house', and then 'as big as a moving hill'. I guess for a Hobbit 'house' and 'hill' are pretty much the same thing! ;D
Good to see you back Arsenus 8)
You lot have got me thinking about doing this again, you bad b*ggers ;) :d
Mwa ha ha... you know you want to Nik ;D
I use the GW rules, based on the films, (yeah, I know, don't flagellate me) so my troops will be alike the films.
For the Dulendings, Vikings ? Gauls ? Anglo-saxons ? Dark ages ?
The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about using medieval humans for the orcs.
A mix of Peasants, troops in gambeson, pole arms... With a good paint job, it could be nice.
I've made this :
In â,¬, I guess (without Postage) and using storical ranges from Pendraken.
| Prices | Inf | Cav |
| Pendraken | 0,15 | 0,31 |
| Kallistra | 0,22 | 0,44 |
| TB line | 0,2 | 0,44 |
| Copplestone | 0,22 | 0,56 |
For the Oliphaunts, I've found the ZVEZDA 1/72 WAR ELEPHANTS, 10 £ the two of them. Some says they are actually 25 mm african elephants, so pretty enormous.
http://i769.photobucket.com/albums/xx334/Tantallon2/022.jpg the one with big hears.
Harrad is in way! :)
Quote from: nikharwood on 01 February 2013, 11:03:12 PM
Good to see you back Arsenus 8)
You lot have got me thinking about doing this again, you bad b*ggers ;) :d
Thanks Nik!
Join us!! ;D
Quote from: barbarian on 02 February 2013, 01:06:57 AM
I use the GW rules, based on the films, (yeah, I know, don't flagellate me) so my troops will be alike the films.
No worries.
QuoteFor the Dulendings, Vikings ? Gauls ? Anglo-saxons ? Dark ages ?
Well, i don't know about the GW version, but the Dunlendings were wild hill folk, with long matter blonde hair and dressed in furs, and fighting mainly with clubs. They used pikes and horses to defend the Fords of Isen, but it may be likely that these were supplied by Saruman, as they are not noted to use these outside of their service with Orthanc. Also, the term 'pike' seems debatable as they deployed in trenches, something pikemen wouldn't be able to do. It may be that these were actually spears.
I think the closest Pendraken codes are likely to be the Ancients: Dacians. They look pretty spot on actually. AD7 & 8 for the wild folk, and AD6 for the 'pikes' used at Isen. Dunlending cavalry seems to have been light cavalry at best and certainly not up to opposing the Rohirrim. Perhaps AD4 is best for them?
Given their wild life in the hills Dunlendings probably lived by hunting, so it may be acceptable to assume they had bows for hunting but there's no reference of this as far as i know. AD9 Dacian archers would do the job though.
QuoteThe more I think about it, the more I'm thinking about using medieval humans for the orcs.
A mix of Peasants, troops in gambeson, pole arms... With a good paint job, it could be nice.
I think that's an interesting idea, perhaps mixing Pendraken Goblins with the Fantasy: Beggar figures for the lower quality orc and goblin troops and Medieval men for the Goblin-men, Great ORcs and Uruks.
totally agree Luddite, the Dacians are ideal for the Dunlendings :D
to be quite honest though I am using the goblins as ... welll errr goblins :)
somehow I decided to paint them brown and they ended up green... grrrrr
The Uruks : (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/AS3.jpg)
The dulendings or wild men : (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/ProductImages/AS4.jpg)
Well, they'll both do although neither the Uruks, nor the Dunlendings (see above) naturally used spears.
Quote from: Maenoferren on 05 February 2013, 12:56:00 AM
somehow I decided to paint them brown and they ended up green... grrrrr
Aye, orc skin colour is problematic isn't it?
They're mainly described as being 'sallow skinned like the worse sort of Mongol-type' (apologies for the racism; this is how Tolkien described them :().
Sallow skin http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sallow (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/sallow)
This coupled with their general avoidance of sunlight i guess means they're sort of pale yellowish in tone? The Uruks were described as being darker skinned, but i'd perhaps place them in the 'tanned Asian' cetegory (like actual Mongols, or maybe Native Americans?)
Since Tolkien describes the Troll-men of Far Harad as being 'black skinned, with red darting tongues', presumably, the Uruks aren't
very dark skinned or black?
Harradrim are approaching! :)
Nik, you could use your Saladin army and just add some mammoths... ;)
I've made an order.
I'll let you know how I manage to use the minis.
That's could be interesting! :)
Quote from: Arsenus on 14 February 2013, 05:50:47 PM
Harradrim are approaching! :)
Nik, you could use your Saladin army and just add some mammoths... ;)
Oho - now that's not a bad idea at all Arsenus....hmm... :-\ 8)
(http://darussophiledotcom.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/europe-middle-earth-russophobes.jpg)
Moria?! I'd better not start digging in the back yard then! :o
Quote from: Arsenus on 14 February 2013, 05:50:47 PM
Harradrim are approaching! :)
Nik, you could use your Saladin army and just add some mammoths... ;)
Just got to interject that I think mammoth are probably not really suitable for the Haradrim - a hot climate army - what with the fur coats and everything! [See signature! ;)]
Probably better to look at the new Carthaginian elephants or go for 15mm ones if you're wedded to the idea of them being super-sized. My personal opinion is that they are just regular war elephants given a fancy name. They're also referred to as oliphants and the old MERP game didn't make then anything unusual IIRC.
Your Middle Earth may vary ;)
Meirion
Quote from: nikharwood on 14 February 2013, 10:21:00 PM
Oho - now that's not a bad idea at all Arsenus....hmm... :-\ 8)
Of course it's a good idea! :)
I wanted to use arab for Harad since i saw your army! :)
@ Luddite:
Damn, i'm an elf... :D
@O Dinas Powys: I know but i love the mammoth and the Carthaginian elephants are too small for me! :D And I have thinked to build some extra stuff for the howda! :)
Damn you Arsenus, you just had to go and mention Hordes of the Things didn't you?
And double damn you Sue Barker, for releasing the rules as a free PDF.
And triple damn you 15mm.co.uk for having some nice ready made 24pt armies (at reasonable prices).
All in all I'm suckered back into 15mm fantasy, blegh, mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble.
Only kidding guys, this was one of my favourite rulesets back in the day, so I'm quite stoked up about ressurecting it, but this time around I dont think I'm going to be settling for 24 point armies on a 2ft square, I'm thinking more of 72pt armies of a 4ft x 2ft.
Quote from: GordonY on 15 February 2013, 11:08:41 AM
Damn you Arsenus, you just had to go and mention Hordes of the Things didn't you?
And double damn you Sue Barker, for releasing the rules as a free PDF.
And triple damn you 15mm.co.uk for having some nice ready made 24pt armies (at reasonable prices).
All in all I'm suckered back into 15mm fantasy, blegh, mutter, mutter, grumble, grumble.
Only kidding guys, this was one of my favourite rulesets back in the day, so I'm quite stoked up about ressurecting it, but this time around I dont think I'm going to be settling for 24 point armies on a 2ft square, I'm thinking more of 72pt armies of a 4ft x 2ft.
;D ;D
Just for you Arsenus
http://eurekamin.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=87_100_101&products_id=9797
has BOTH sets of tusks
I know it but it's too expensive for me! :)
Or perhaps somebody can buy it for me... B) B) B) B)
I think thats a cue for Leon and Dave to come up with the goods. We need a LARGE Elephant with 4 tusks and a weird shaped howdah, how about it Leon?
Quote from: GordonY on 15 February 2013, 05:43:44 PM
I think thats a cue for Leon and Dave to come up with the goods. We need a LARGE Elephant with 4 tusks and a weird shaped howdah, how about it Leon?
Just buy a 20mm one, and I'll send you a load of tusks to play with...! :P
Quote from: Leon on 15 February 2013, 05:59:22 PM
Just buy a 20mm one, and I'll send you a load of tusks to play with...! :P
Mmmhh... If you have a lot of tusks half-baked, this could be interesting... ;)
How about this one then Arsenus
http://www.15mm.co.uk/HOT31_WAR_MAMMOTH.htm
and its not as expensive as the Eureka one ;)
Quote from: Arsenus on 15 February 2013, 08:40:39 PM
Mmmhh... If you have a lot of tusks half-baked, this could be interesting... ;)
I can supply loads for tusks if you need them, no bother there.
Love the map, Luddite. Never thought of the Horse Lords of the Fjords before!!! :o
Mollinary
@GordonY: Thank for it but I still prefer the Pendraken one. :)
@Leon: I will see this when I will receive the mammoth and search a way to add tusks! :) Thanks!
I have received the beginning of my harad army.
I'm working to build a howdah. I will post a picture when finished.
most excellent :D
And one awaiting to become dry!
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/howdah10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=524&u=10053010)
I have based the troops! :)
Pictures tomorrow!
Excellent :D
I have received the Isengard. ;)
@Barbarian: Hope we'll see them soon! :)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0010.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=525&u=10053010)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0011.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=526&u=10053010)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0012.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=527&u=10053010)
I have not glued the tusks yet. Maybe I will cut them in two parts...
Looking good sir! 8)
Thank you! :)
Looking good, will you be adding ropes and straps for the Howdahs?
I have thinked about it but It will be very difficult to not break them in transport. :(
Make some in copper wire and green stuff but fixed on the belly of the Oliphaunt.
Looking excellent sir!
Can't wait to see them painted.
I agree that it would be worth spending time sorting out some 'rigging' for the howdahs. I think a simple way to do it would be to use cotton thread, wrap it about as approriate, tie it off and glue it at the ends with a few dabs of superglue and then give it a good coating of PVA. Should make it nice and strong.
I'm very inspired by this but unfortunately i'm already embarked on a different 10mm fantasy project. :(
Maybe next year... :D
Good stuff Arsenus 8)
Luddite's tip is a good one - I'd give it a go :)
Like a boss, I will combine the two helps! :)
I have the Battlefield Razorwire from Army Painter, I will glue it with PVA and then paint it. :)
Thanks for the advices!
Quote from: Arsenus on 09 March 2013, 09:41:45 AM
I have the Battlefield Razorwire from Army Painter, I will glue it with PVA and then paint it. :)
Now that's an interesting idea... 8)
Here is the first one!
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0013.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=528&u=10053010)
That looks great Arsenus...
If you wanted to be extra-spiffy, you could string some between the posts of the howdah - just to make it look a bit more 'spiky' and nasty...
Mmmhh...nice idea... :D
Sorry for making more work for you ;)
No worries! :)
You just have to bring me some beer! :D
Quote from: Arsenus on 09 March 2013, 10:33:49 AM
No worries! :)
You just have to bring me some beer! :D
On my way - how about some of my local stuff?
(http://www.exmoorales.co.uk/assets/images/b_header_ale.jpg)
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD_rzLlgg_8koQ0xdsXp6KO8AkL9SpvRZZ9j3ZyzmnqiToTuN0-g)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmX2eqU5NZ8XPAa2GBpDdqV8h4llOCGN7Vk1DlnfHeNrw3UD11sg)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcStYGeckQjuhH8SZBYyi2tWtQt4OVTKD369hueHNP7SZ32NU_lF7Q)
(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_ItARnDhY6zaZSJTTZ7DDPHowC3AhBJEUAMZI8aSgytLEJBWb)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS5P48s9GMLmGSSAiH644V5VGsw6LaHEkDWLAXyTqSfW6P40Na6)
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRtDNTue0yxklAFpIpanSIt8KAg7yR36ILBpedgGt-MKXV7YKGYIA)
:-bd <:-P :-bd
Mouahahahah!! Thanks Nik!
Look not bad at all, I think, hu? :)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0014.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=529&u=10053010)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0015.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=530&u=10053010)
Very nice. I love the double tusks!
Thanks! I'm a bit proud of it! :D
Very nice, finishes them off nicely
I will!
Oh yes - now they look great =D> 8)
Excellent, I like these!
8)
Formidable, and superb. That is going to look amazing!
Thanks all...
Let's painting! :D
Hope It will look good! ;)
EXCELLENT :-bd 8)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/dscn0016.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=531&u=10053010)
Those look good! Maybe an ink wash to lift colours, but I like the scheme!
Yep! It seems to be important to do! I have thinked about that when I see the picture here! :)
Awesome!!
Very nice Arsenus - yep, I think a little wash will finish them nicely 8)
Hello Arsenus, I'm following this with interest as I have a passion for LOTR but especially the Haradrim (I still don't know why). Looking good!
Regards, Rob.
Thank you all! :-[
I love the Haradrim too! :D
Finished!
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/16-03-10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=539&u=10053010)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/16-03-11.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=540&u=10053010)
(http://i70.servimg.com/u/f70/10/05/30/10/16-03-12.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=541&u=10053010)
Looking good :D
Maybe you could work the bases with pigment ?
Good work fella!
Thank you guys! :)
Barbarian: I have no pigment at home but I will look for it! :)
Buy some Agrax Earthshade (formerly Devlan Mud, aka 'god wash') inkwash from GW.
Wash everything with it.
;)
nice :-bd
Very nicely done Arsenus - a wash on the base would add some further depth & definition 8)
Call me daft, but is the title 'Hordes of the Things' a play on words from Phil Barker (ie Lord of the Rings), or reference to a book or similar?
Quote from: Windle Poons on 19 March 2013, 09:55:45 AM
Call me daft, but is the title 'Hordes of the Things' a play on words from Phil Barker (ie Lord of the Rings), or reference to a book or similar?
Direct reference to LotR it is. There is even a little poem on the inside cover: 'One die to rule them all, etc'. Then again, the rules mention 'a BBC radio serial of the same name', so it was used before?
yeh it was a BBC radio series which was itself a parody of LOTR
Here you go:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hordes-Things-Audio-Andrew-Marshall/dp/1408426234
Ashamed to say I hadn't noticed. (Blushes like a nun in a strip club)
On stage, that is.
Hello everybody! I'm back! I have finished the Harad army... almost... just few things to do for a better effect! :)
Now I'm looking to the Rohan army! :)
Good to hear.
I have began my Rohan Army! :)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2013-110.jpg)
Those are looking rather 'zippy' ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
A good start, it's going to be a lot of horses!
Quote from: Techno on 24 October 2013, 10:03:46 AM
Those are looking rather 'zippy' ! :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Looking good
Cant wait to see the George and Rod Jane and Freddy units :D
Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 October 2013, 10:04:57 AM
A good start, it's going to be a lot of horses!
I hate painting horses. :Ph
Quote from: fsn on 24 October 2013, 10:10:13 AM
I hate painting horses. :Ph
Me to ...they dont stand still long enough ( an oldie but still slightly funny)
Techno should know how to get them to remain stationary :d :d
IanS
Yes.....Been there...Got the tee shirt....
Not particularly pleasant watching them suddenly collapse after being given an overdose of anaesthetic, and then waiting for the 'meat wagon' to come and take the carcase away.
Quote from: Techno on 24 October 2013, 12:38:03 PM
Yes.....Been there...Got the tee shirt....
Not particularly pleasant watching them suddenly collapse after being given an overdose of anaesthetic, and then waiting for the 'meat wagon' to come and take the carcase away.
Yep not good : :(
I didn't quite mean THAT way.
IanS :(
QuoteNot particularly pleasant watching them suddenly collapse after being given an overdose of anaesthetic, and then waiting for the 'meat wagon' to come and take the carcase away.
round here they don't even bother with the meat wagon, the carcases are given to the hunt hounds :o
Quote from: ianrs54 on 25 October 2013, 08:59:50 AM
I didn't quite mean THAT way.
IanS :(
Sorry Ian....It just happened to be the third reminder of what IS an unpleasant experience on that particular day. :-[
Cheers - Phil.
No problem.
IanS
Just show you this:
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2013-111.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=546&u=10053010)
Great work Arsenus !
Cheers - Phil.
Really look good sire. 8) 8)
Quote from: mad lemmey on 31 October 2013, 11:17:43 AM
Really look good sire. 8) 8)
Sire?...We have royalty here?
Quote from: Fenton on 31 October 2013, 11:28:21 AM
Sire?...We have royalty here?
;D ;D
Great work pal! The details on their shields is fantastic.
Thanks everyone!
I'm sir Arsenus, great destroyer of the weasel of Winchester, inventor of the nursing potion corns. ;D ;D ;D
*tugs forelock*
He's aristocrats alright, mad as an FSN!
looking good :-bd :-bd :-bd
Thanks all! :)
I have finished! :)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-010.jpg)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-011.jpg)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-012.jpg)
I really like these.
Really good - the colour scheme works very well - and the figures work well for Rohan as well.
And the uniformity of the different units makes it really look like an army
Brilliant work, like the camp, the cavalry really look the part.
8)
ooooh I really like them... m/ :-bd m/ :-bd
the colours work really well :D
are they the Roman cavalry figures then... he says innocently whilst his brain is thinking...'well as I have nearly finished my other fantasy stuff!!!' B) B)
Thank you! :)
Now I have begun Isengard!
Excellent stuff !
Cheers - Phil.
Brilliant work sir!
Nicely done, Arsenus, nicely done 8)
I love it.
I must post mine now.
Thanks all!
I would love to see them Barbarian! :)
Now, the Isengard! :)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-013.jpg)
Great work so far and looking forward to seeing how the forces of Isengard look when finished 8).
8)
Look forward to seeing them 'on the table.'
Cheers - Phil.
Very nice monsieur.
Really good work.... cool idea, and nicely executed.
I`m really inspired by this and am half tempted to do Middle Earth as a theme, specially 4th age about 120 years after the LotR books end. All the main characters passed away, sailed over the sea, or lingering in the remote and now forgotten places in Middle Earth. Plenty of scope, as wars with the Harradrim, Orcs, and dozens of pretenders, are all eager to carve a slice of power for themselves, now that Sauron has gone... makes this an ideal place to start a projected campaign venture. I`m currently torn between Middle Earth (especially as it allows for a really extensive Moria Dungeon World campaign... I don`t think I`ve ever seen the Moria underdeeps drawn out properly to my satisfaction, and 10mm 3D dungeon tiles would be truly ideal for this); but also a Ravenloft D&D campaign world with lots of dark gothic scope also appeals. Maybe I can combine the two?
But I digress lol.
I love how the 10mm Pendraken range looks so nice and totally non Games Workship-y... more like Alan Lee`s art work. Really nice.
When you`ve painted all this lot up, will you play lots of solo games, or with friends or a local club?
Six
Why a Dungeon crawl game set in Middle Earth would be so amazing... to quote Tolkien a second:
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things.
Even Sauron knows them not, for they are older than he.
Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day."
- The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter V: The White Rider
How about Lothlorian or Mirkwood Elves clearing Southern Mirkwood with assistance from rangers or Rohan?
Rangers of the North, Rivendell remants (The sons of Elrond), Lonely Mountain Dwarves and Beornlings attempt to find the truth of the shadows in Angmar? Dale Dwarves and Iron Hill Dwarves racing to the Far Haard to secure a treasure horde? Gondor and Dol Aramoth paladins clearing Umbar, backed by the Lord of The Glittering Caves?
Tunnels under Isengard, too narrow for an Ent?
The Paths of the Dead have reopened, why?
The list goes on...
Why not run it during the period... Frodo gives the ring to Galadriel and basically you have a whol new storyline with all the characters....
my stuff is based not long after the battle of the five armies.....
Oh goodness yes yes yes.... mad lemmey... Maenoferren... the ideas potentials are, as you both so rightly suggest, absolutely and utterly endless. The "what if" scenario Maenoferren speaks of is something I have often enjoyed doing with my 40mm skirmish TMG LotR minis.... but using the vast range of Pendraken 10mm beauties, the scope would become truly boundless.
Quote from: sixsideddice on 03 February 2014, 07:06:31 PM
Why a Dungeon crawl game set in Middle Earth would be so amazing... to quote Tolkien a second:
"Far, far below the deepest delvings of the Dwarves, the world is gnawed by nameless things.
Even Sauron knows them not, for they are older than he.
Now I have walked there, but I will bring no report to darken the light of day."
- The Two Towers, Book III, Chapter V: The White Rider
Sounds like my Tuesday morning English III students,
QuoteSounds like my Tuesday morning English III students
Sit up in class, no slouching.
Isengard
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-014.jpg)
And Saroumane is here! :)
(http://i57.servimg.com/u/f57/10/05/30/10/2014-015.jpg)
Very nice work sir, looks just right. Maybe an ink wash on the bases to tone them down a little, but otherwise its great! :)
The flash is light up everything, they are not so bright! :)
Ok, ok! I'm late but I have just ordered Gondor and Mordor armies to finish this project! :)
Quote from: Arsenus on 29 September 2014, 11:42:13 AM
Ok, ok! I'm late but I have just ordered Gondor and Mordor armies to finish this project! :)
Cool - looking forward to seeing them :)
I hope this will be cool! :)
"Mr Frodo it's a real live Ollifant"
Elephant Steak on the hoof - Yum Yum....
Good stuff sir
IanS :)
Some Eaglemoss LotR Mumakil from their chess piece range.
Still need to get some suitable crew. Despite the figures shown for scale Sauron is not about to deploy MG34s :)
Quote from: Dave Fielder on 10 October 2014, 08:06:06 AM
"Mr Frodo it's a real live Ollifant"
I like them :-bd, I always found the ones in the film too big. Pretty funky, but just far too big. they would have dwarfed a dinosaur. and where do they get enough fodder for that many beasties of that size....
Nice work!
Quote from: Maenoferren on 10 October 2014, 12:31:22 PM
I like them :-bd, I always found the ones in the film too big. Pretty funky, but just far too big. they would have dwarfed a dinosaur. and where do they get enough fodder for that many beasties of that size....
Maybe that's why in the movie the hosts of Mordor have mysteriously dwindled to only 10, 000 Orcs. Easier to feed in a wasteland kingdom, but for God's sake, a real Dark Lord needs more than that to sweep the palace!
For that matter, the clone army in
Star Wars is a million warriors for a galactic civil war?! They wouldn't be enough to control the football crowds!
They are very nice!!
In addition, I have done a map for a campaign usiing hott system:
(http://arsenus.blog.free.fr/public/Photos_de_figs/Pendraken/Campagne_Seigneur_des_Anneaux/Campagne_HOTT.jpg)
And now...
The Strongholds of the Gondor and the Mordor!
Under construction...
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/minas_10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=564&u=10053010)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/mounta10.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=565&u=10053010)
Long time no see!
Good to see you again, nice ideas! :)
Yeah! I was busy... :)
Thanks!
Can't wait to see those fnished.....And welcome back, A.
Cheers - Phil
Thanks! :-)
My computer is down and I am not able to post pictures of the Gondor easily so stay tuned, I will post asap!
And now!
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/img_2210.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/10053010/568)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/img_2211.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/10053010/569)
Quote from: Arsenus on 18 December 2014, 12:53:44 PM
And now!
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/img_2210.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/10053010/568)
(http://i39.servimg.com/u/f39/10/05/30/10/img_2211.jpg) (http://www.servimg.com/view/10053010/569)
thats wierd...the links dont show up on the main post but do on the quote page????
Wait... what?
Strange...
I can see both.
Great work Monseur! ;)
I'm with Lemmey on both counts. 8)
Fine here for the piccies.
Cheers - Phil
Those is fab!
Great work, you get all the flavour with this HOTT armies.!
Thanks!
It was a 2 year old project! :)
Happy to finish it!
Maybe I will add some heroes and troops from time to time. :)
So Congratulation Arsenius,
do not forget to post your battle reports with these armies !
Quote from: Arsenus on 18 December 2014, 02:50:17 PM
Wait... what?
Strange...
and now it is there... how wierd is that :o
looking good :)
We will begin a campaign with the map with a friend.
8) coool