Any thoughts on a good set of rules for riots, demonstrations, and crowd control? I am thinking of scenarios like Kent State, January 6, or Nazi street battles from the early 30s
Irregular Miniatures, have a 15mm Riot range. they sell a Riot rule set for £3.30. I have no idea how good they are, but I expect they might be a good base to start from.
I've occasionally wondered about DBM armies, rioters on one side, police on the other.
I've also thought of doing it as a kreigspiel, with the players as the police command centre.
QuoteAny thoughts on a good set of rules for riots, demonstrations, and crowd control? I am thinking of scenarios like Kent State, January 6, or Nazi street battles from the early 30s
I'd be surprised if they have the patience to wait another five years.
I'd have a look at Jim Wallman's set:
Civil Disorder (https://jimwallman.org.uk/free-wargames/)
There is a list of free wargames - Civil Disorder is the modern disorder set you are after.
They were written c2001 and things may need tweaking depending on the current socio-political model of 'policing' if coming forward and similarly adjustments need to be considered if looking at 60s or 30s. Wargame Developments used to have several civil unrest sets from Imperial policing onward published in the Nugget but I suspect most have disappeared behind a paywall (only £30.00 UK/£40.00 overseas for a years membership including passwords to past Nuggets - £20.00 for e-membership only).
Free Kriegsspieling a Police command centre is a good way of doing it. You can cheer as you 'kettle' your protestors away from the target buildings and blanche in horror as your High Value Principal's motorcade takes the wrong turn into the back of your' kettle'. Do you blow up the unmarked van parked inside your ring of steel before or after you find out it is a BBC mobile studio whose paperwork is missing?
If you want late 18th century civil disorder - have a look at Little Lambent Meteors in Jim's free list- the Gordon Riots.
I have a matching pair of Hordes of the Things (HoTT) armies - in my Law & Disorder set of armies.
Irregular Miniatures do good riot police, as do Gladiator games.
HoTT works very well to portray riots IMHO.
Hi
Not sure about any rules, but yesterday was my 70th birthday; I spent my 20th birthday in Armagh city with people throwing bricks and petrol bombs at me, not something I would personaly care to 'wargame'.
Cheers Paul
QuoteHi
Not sure about any rules, but yesterday was my 70th birthday; I spent my 20th birthday in Armagh city with people throwing bricks and petrol bombs at me, not something I would personaly care to 'wargame'.
Cheers Paul
Lively Birthday Party?
QuoteI've occasionally wondered about DBM armies, rioters on one side, police on the other.
I've also thought of doing it as a kreigspiel, with the players as the police command centre.
I tried to respond earlier, but my computer hung.
With the likeness between police tactics and Imperial Roman drill, DBx might be a good choice.
Good old British Coppers list:Mostly big shields: Bd
A few round shield snatch squads:
Ax (Can interpenetrate Bd).
One (or two for large gatherings) Mounted Branch:
Kn (Not Cv or LH since these chaps don't hang about exchanging missiles).
The other list is a bit harder, here's an attempt.
The title's lifted fomr Jimmy's secret Army (Rise and fall of Reginald Perrin).
Select one or two from
"Wreckers of law and order. Communists, Maoists, Trotskyists, neo-Trotskyists, crypto-Trotskyists, union leaders, Communist union leaders, atheists, agnostics, long-haired weirdos, short-haired weirdos, vandals, hooligans, football supporters, namby-pamby probation officers, rapists, papists, papist rapists, foreign surgeons - headshrinkers, who ought to be locked up, Wedgwood Benn, keg bitter, punk rock, glue-sniffers, "Play For Today", Clive Jenkins, Roy Jenkins, Up Jenkins, up everybody's, Chinese restaurants - why do you think Windsor Castle is ringed with Chinese restaurants?"RiotersMostly hangers on and hangers about, hoping to loot a local Greggs: Hordes.
A few chuckers of bricks / bottles and the odd incendiary: Ps.
One or two Heroic martyrs to the cause / Pissed and coked up yobbos: Wb
Observations:I don't know much about DBx variants though a couple may offer additional interest.
* I think Hordes of the Things provides several variations on "expendable trash" troops.
* DBM(M) offers the S/I/F tweaks to fine tune unit behaviour.
The Rioters are composed of elements that match badly against the main police types (Bd and Kn).
A straight up face off down the high street is only likely to end one way.
A more interesting game might see the police trying to maintain order across a cityscape, with rioters appearing at unpredictable times and locations.
A number of zombie games have rules for this sort of situation.
I was thinking Pony Wars might provide a base from which to create rules for riots.
Players are Police instead of cavalry and rioters replace the game system driven Native Americans.
Police run around securing premises, rescuing "at risk" civilians, escorting ambulances or fire engines, etc, etc.
My Law & Disorder Armies for HoTT are:
Law
1 x Blade General (Chief Copper) @2AP
3 x Blades (Bobbies in Riot Gear)@2AP x2
2 x Knights (Police horses)@ 2AP x2
2 x Beasts (Dog Handlers)@2AP x 2
1 x Behemoth (Humber Pig) @ 4AP
1 x God (Rightwing Politician) @ 4AP*
Alternatives:
2 x Sneakers (Snatch squads)@3AP
1 x Lurker (Undercover officer)@ 1AP
1 x Artillery (water cannon)@3AP
1 x Flyer (Drones)@2AP
Disorder
1 x Warband General (Ringleaders)@2AP
1 x Warband (serious thugs) @2AP
1 x God (Right or Left Wing Rabbelrousing Politician)*@ 4AP
14 x Hordes (general rioters)@ 1AP x14
2 x Lurkers (rioters in hidding)@1AP x 2
Alternatives:
1 x Magician General (TV camera crew & reporter)@ 4AP
NOTES: both armies can have max 24AP and no more than 12AP on units costing 3 or more AP
*If both sides choose the same God, the 1st side that rolls sucessfully to evoke it gets to deploy it. It is therefore lost to the other.
That's very good.
I'd forgotten about the dogs.
And I really like the dodgy politician of negotiable principles.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 18 August 2025, 12:56:44 AMI was thinking Pony Wars might provide a base from which to create rules for riots.
Players are Police instead of cavalry and rioters replace the game system driven Native Americans.
Police run around securing premises, rescuing "at risk" civilians, escorting ambulances or fire engines, etc, etc.
This idea definitely has legs - more a town wide conflict than a single street skirmish
QuoteThis idea definitely has legs - more a town wide conflict than a single street skirmish
For single street skirmish I'd go with Mana Press's "Tribal" rules with the "Brutal" expansion. The expansion goes from Romeo, Tybalt and Mercutio on the streets of Venice, Via Gangs of Victorian London to the Neon lit streets of your favourite cyber-city. Might be worth a thought.
Years ago, I had the opportunity to experience many of civil disturbances and riots firsthand. I think for a ruleset to properly capture the experience of civil disobedience is to ensure that the masses are likely merely protesting and not violent. Within these large masses there are individuals who are violent and use the masses as cover and concealment.
This makes law enforcement's job a difficult one. You want to address the violent actors while not escalating with the masses.
Objectives for law enforcement would be to secure/protect facilities or people and/or use extraction teams to make sorties to apprehend those violent actors within the masses and bring them behind police lines.
Not sure if Pony Wars has rules for herds of buffalo but perhaps they could be modified to represent the masses of relatively benign protesters.
Some excellent suggestions here.
Wargame forum stuff at its best.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 18 August 2025, 09:51:04 AMThat's very good.
I'd forgotten about the dogs.
And I really like the dodgy politician of negotiable principles.
It's a 15mm army but I found a 20mm model of a certain beer drinking , smoking, Brexit loving politician as the 'God'. Roll a 6 & he arrives to generate mayhem. Roll a 1 and he's out of there, never to return (you aint seen me - right) ;D
My rioters started off as an assortment of figures, but I now have a Zombie Lives Matter variant, using the Splintered Light & Grenadier figures.
QuoteIt's a 15mm army but I found a 20mm model of a certain beer drinking , smoking, Brexit loving politician as the 'God'. Roll a 6 & he arrives to generate mayhem. Roll a 1 and he's out of there, never to return (you aint seen me - right) ;D
If only I were convinced by the "Never to return"..
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 18 August 2025, 05:31:25 PMIf only I were convinced by the "Never to return"..
:D :D :D
I am now searching for a 20mm model of 'the orange one' to allow me to play a more overseas variant.
I have fielded the 'Disorder' army with a Magician General (its amazing what the rioters will do if they know a friendly camera-crew is watching), the God, and 16 Hordes - it can be very effective.
The fact that the Hordes can be regenerated by expending command PIPs makes it a tough game for 'Law', especially if they do not get the God. But often he appears for neither side :o as he's off in his holiday home in the South of France!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hamKl-su8PE
Civil Disorder (http://jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/CIVIL DISORDER version2.pdf) by Jim Wallman (found by typing "wargaming civil disorder" into a search engine).
Not played them, a quick read through suggests to me that they're designed for walk-up games at a convention - multiple players run the police/security forces, umpire(s) run the troublemakers.
Quote from: Raider4 on 18 August 2025, 07:59:46 PMCivil Disorder (http://jimwallman.org.uk/wargame/CIVIL DISORDER version2.pdf) by Jim Wallman (found by typing "wargaming civil disorder" into a search engine).
Not played them, a quick read through suggests to me that they're designed for walk-up games at a convention - multiple players run the police/security forces, umpire(s) run the troublemakers.
Or you could have looked at my post above :D
QuoteOr you could have looked at my post above :D
Doh! Sorry, didn't see it.
Quote from: Gwydion on 18 August 2025, 11:18:55 PMOr you could have looked at my post above :D
But where's the fun in that? :D
Quote from: Raider4 on 19 August 2025, 06:21:53 AMDoh! Sorry, didn't see it.
No problem - I was just so happy I had an answer to a question for a change! :)