Pendraken Miniatures Forum

A week ago Pierre the Shy pointed me at a message from another user on another forum

QuoteI got an order from Navwar the other day. The accompanying flyer mentioned that GQ1, which Tony very helpfully reprinted a few years ago, was now out of print, with no plans for a reprint. But what was a bit more alarming was that there was a list of 4 models from the 1/3000 range which were said to be "out of stock/out of production and can no longer be supplied". No idea whether this is a one-off or whether it's a sign that the moulds are too old to use or what, but it certainly made me think I should try to fill any gaps in my collection before too long.

Of course, I keep discovering gaps I didn't know I had ...

This prompted a discussion about gaps and me realising that Pierre the Shy did not have a lot of ships for the Russo-Japanese Naval War 1904-05 :-\

Navwar do a BATTLE OF TSUSHIMA - 1905 pack for £55.00  :-\

Contains all warships present at the battle:
RUSSIA: 8 Battleships, 3 Coast defence Ships, 9 Cruisers and 9 Destroyers
JAPAN: 4 Battleships, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 21 Cruisers, 21 Destroyers and 31 Torpedo Boats..

30 Destroyers :o 31 Torpedo Boats :o

That's a lot of minor ships, even for me :^o   WWII Japanese 57 X_X WWII Allies 82  X_X  X_X  :-$

General Quarters II includes optional Fleet Action rules so a single destroyer or torpedo boat can represent a Division of 4 :-\

But that pack doesn't include any of the early war Russian ships and not all the Japanese ships :-\

So I've spent some 'spare' time over the last week researching the ships of the Russo-Japanese Naval War 1904-05 :-B

I was very lucky to come across a link to a Russian website that includes the orders of battle for both fleets at the start of the war. Obviously, they were in Russian and used the Cyrillic alphabet. Translation tools helped and having the Cyrillic names for the Russian ships removed a lot of challenges with varying transliterations @-)

I now have a pretty good handle on both orders of battle and have added the Japanese ships that were completed during the war and the 2^nd & 3^rd Russian Pacific Squadrons.

I now have a tentative Navwar order:

RUSSIA: 16 Battleships, 3 Coast defense ships, 22 Cruisers, 12 Destroyers and 6 Torpedo Boats
JAPAN: 7 Battleships, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 22 Cruisers, 14 Destroyers and 18 Torpedo Boats

£89.85  X_X  :-\

QuoteNavwar do a BATTLE OF TSUSHIMA - 1905 pack for £55.00  :-\

Dammit! That's not the kind of thing I need to hear!
I'm trying desperately to put 1904 to one side and concentrate on the Ottoman Napoleonics (and the WSS and the ECW/W3K.)

I watched the Drachinifel 2nd Pacific Squadron videos again, and am on the verge of falling.

QuoteContains all warships present at the battle:
RUSSIA: 8 Battleships, 3 Coast defence Ships, 9 Cruisers and 9 Destroyers
JAPAN: 4 Battleships, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 21 Cruisers, 21 Destroyers and 31 Torpedo Boats..

No Kamchatka? OK. I'm safe.

Quote30 Destroyers :o 31 Torpedo Boats :o

That's a lot of minor ships, even for me :^o  WWII Japanese 57 X_X WWII Allies 82  X_X  X_X  :-$

That is a lot of minor ships.  :-\  My 1940 British Med fleet has 18 destroyers; 32 ships in total, and that seems a lot on the table.


Just to check though, there's no Kamchatka?

N7709 KAMCHATKA – ARMED REPAIR SHIP 1 1903 £1.35  :d

I didn't count it above but my tentative order includes one :)

(https://i.imgflip.com/4dfdoa.jpg)
(Well, I am.  :( )

Well our order to Navwar will be doomed if I can't find a fax app that gives a few free sendings, only need send one....for now! ;)

Mind you I have yet to figure out exactly what I want in the way of more ships....weither I need them is another question though :-\ 



 

Quote from: paulr on 25 June 2023, 05:58:36 AMA week ago ......

If it's not too late there is the 1:6000 option with Hallmark ships from Magister Militum.  That's what I did when I got the early 20th Century naval bug.  I thought I'd do Tsu Shima and ended up with the entire Japanese and Russian fleets for the Russo-Japanese war, and somehow The Grand Fleet and High Seas Fleet for Jutland too, plus books of course.  I'm in remission at the moment.

QuoteIf it's not too late there is the 1:6000 option with Hallmark ships from Magister Militum.  That's what I did when I got the early 20th Century naval bug.  I thought I'd do Tsu Shima and ended up with the entire Japanese and Russian fleets for the Russo-Japanese war, and somehow The Grand Fleet and High Seas Fleet for Jutland too, plus books of course.  I'm in remission at the moment.

Jutland?  Do tell!  Website AAR?

We're pretty heavily committed to 1:3,000 with ships for:

• Eastern Med, Adriatic & Black Sea 1910s
• World War I
• World War II

I'm not sure how much detail you can get on a 1:6,000 scale 54m long torpedo boat :-\

Quote from: hammurabi70 on 26 June 2023, 06:37:53 PMJutland?  Do tell!  Website AAR?

Not sure what AAR stand for, I'm guessing it isn't Air to Air Refuelling ;D  This is Magister Militums website https://www.magistermilitum.com/  Search under 1:6000 or Hallmark, the manufacturer

Quote from: paulr on 26 June 2023, 07:10:15 PMI'm not sure how much detail you can get on a 1:6,000 scale 54m long torpedo boat :-\

Not very much though the capital ships have a surprising amount of detail and are instantly recognisable.

Started off with a few 1/4800 Leister micro models in the 1970's...buy a few British postal orders (only allowed one per week) and air mail off the order to the UK... some weeks or more later a small cardboard box would arrive with the ships inside.

Now you can fax orders to navwar and pay by credit card... luxury!!😄

We use 1/3000th as big enough to get plenty of details but much cheaper than 1/2400 stuff. We have literally hundreds of navwar models between us already so just stick with that scale 👍

Quote from: pierre the shy on 27 June 2023, 03:51:27 AMWe use 1/3000th as big enough to get plenty of details but much cheaper than 1/2400 stuff. We have literally hundreds of navwar models between us already so just stick with that scale 👍

My first foray into naval was with GHQ WW1 1:2400.  Stunning little models but, as you suggest, expensive.  I also soon realised that I'd need a table the size of a small country, so for 20th Century I went for 1:6000 Hallmark but it's too late for you to downsize I'd say :D 

Quote from: John Cook on 27 June 2023, 01:17:37 AMNot very much though the capital ships have a surprising amount of detail and are instantly recognisable.

I can't recognise the 1/3000 scale ones without a name label! :)

QuoteNot sure what AAR stand for, I'm guessing it isn't Air to Air Refuelling ;D  This is Magister Militums website https://www.magistermilitum.com/  Search under 1:6000 or Hallmark, the manufacturer

After Action Report

QuoteI can't recognise the 1/3000 scale ones without a name label!

I'm not a big fan of labels on ships, after hearing of a game in which one battleship took a pot-shot at a distant destroyer and caused a hit. Chap asked his opponent to roll the saving throw, opponent said "maybe you should do it, it's your ship!".

Friendly fire in action.

Wouldn't happen with name labels & national flags.

Quote from: Raider4 on 27 June 2023, 07:04:09 PMWouldn't happen with name labels & national flags.

You clearly haven't played with the groups I have!

Last BKC game my opponent placed an artillery template so as to catch three of my PzIVs, rolled the dice and failed to do much damage. As he reached to remove the template I pointed out he hadn't rolled for the last remaining target. The die rolls blew his FAO to fragments. Would have been less amusing if it weren't for the fact we were playing on my green mat and his Russians are all on snow bases and in snow cammo.

We normally label bases with ship name, national flag, and General Quarters rules armour type and defence factor. Helps as not everyone in our gaming group has been studying ship recognition books for the past few decades  :-B  :)

At 1904-5 ranges with battle ensigns flying its pretty hard not to see who is on whose side, so in daylight we don't normally come across "blue on blue" situations, though after night falls things can potentially become very sticky using the optional night fighting rules we use for GQ 1&2, especially if you're not expecting ships to appear in a particular sector.

Yes John, we're pretty committed to 1/3000 with limited table sizes and existing fleets that we have. 1/6000 sounds like a very good idea if you want to do larger type fleet actions like Jutland.

QuoteI now have a tentative Navwar order:

RUSSIA: 16 Battleships, 3 Coast defense ships, 22 Cruisers, 12 Destroyers and 6 Torpedo Boats
JAPAN: 7 Battleships, 8 Armoured Cruisers, 22 Cruisers, 14 Destroyers and 18 Torpedo Boats

£89.85  X_X  :-\

The order is now £96.60 X_X
I think its time I stopped researching :-\

Quote from: paulr on 01 July 2023, 06:55:34 AMThe order is now £96.60 X_X
I think its time I stopped researching :-\

You KNOW you won't....

Quote from: paulr on 01 July 2023, 06:55:34 AMThe order is now £96.60 X_X
I think its time I stopped researching :-\

Tell me about it! I shudder to think about the costs of my latest project.

Better round it up to a ton!

Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 01 July 2023, 09:46:25 AMBetter round it up to a ton!

;D  ;D  ;D  ;D

Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 01 July 2023, 09:46:25 AMBetter round it up to a ton!

Posties aren't allowed to lift that much mass  :D

I've emailed my order to Pierre the Shy who will add it to his own, much more sensible order, and fax it to Navwar

£99.30  X_X  ;D

Quote from: paulr on 02 July 2023, 05:15:13 AMI've emailed my order to Pierre the Shy who will add it to his own, much more sensible order, and fax it to Navwar

£99.30  X_X  ;D

Depends on how you define "sensible" Paul  :)

Pierre the Shy managed to find a fax app and get it working =D>  =D>  =D>

The Navwar transaction has gone through, the closest you get to an acknowledgement of order and/or shipping ;)

I've placed an order with Leon for some MDF bases for the ships (much easier than cutting them out of sheet styrene) :)

Pierre the Shy added a 'few more' things to the order to make the postage worthwhile ;)

Made all the necessary labels for the "Hull fishing fleet" aka (in 1905) as the Channel Fleet for when everything arrives.....

12 pre-dreadnought battleships, 5 Armoured cruisers, 7 2nd class/scouting cruisers and 12 TBD divisions (each representing 3/4 small TBD's but only 1 actual model per base).

:o Those cod & haddock are in real trouble ;D

I have some rather nice plastic (unpainted) pre-Dreadnought ships I bought from the US - a few years ago.
It was for a campaign we were all going to play at the club - you know the sort of thing :'(  - that died a death after a couple of games were played, as we all moved onto something else!

I need to try & remember the rules we were using (they were a free internet download - that worked very well). We also played a massive multi-player Jutland game using them - which was huge fun.

I drew the short straw as far as fleets was concerned and got the Chinese. Hence the order to the US manufacturer, as they did all the obscure stuff we 'needed' like Chinese and Turks. I also need to try and remember what scale they were as well - as I found the box of unpainted ships whilst in the midst of a tidy-out of my soldier cupboard a week or so back (& there was no info with them sadly) and thought that I really ought to be selling those to somebody with a serious intent on painting them & playing with them.

Anyway ... I digress! The rules needed you to have 'splash' markers - of different sizes for different caliber guns - as multiple shots at a specific target (indicated by the markers) created an obscuring effect on other enemy fire. A mechanism to avoid massed concentration on single ships. So I was wondering if we might persuade Leon to make some splash markers? Or maybe Litko do some already.
Just a thought.

I'll find out the scale of the Chinese ships - as they might add a bit of a side-dish to the Russo-Japanese stuff & then I'm open to offers from a prospective buyer  :)
 

Quote from: paulr on 10 July 2023, 07:32:19 AM:o Those cod & haddock are in real trouble ;D

well I guess at a strech you could call the 1905 Channel Squadron the RN's first fishery protection squadron :)   

though "fishery protection squadron" doesn't quite have the same ring to it as "battle squadron"  :-\

I think you will find that Leon already has splash markers covered in the Litko range.....

Continuing the research for this project

Looking at details of weapons layout and other characteristics to develop Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) for each ship. Some 'interesting designs; two of the Matsushima class of protected cruisers have their one 12.6" gun forward while the third has it aft.

Still deciding on the colour schemes for the ships, all will be in wartime colours

Japan
Neutral grey with funnel tops and mast tops on larger ships black

Russia
1^st Pacific Squadron There are three possibilities :-\
Black: the same as the other Russian ships but with a brown tint due to poor quality lamp-black pigment
Brown: Black hulls with khaki upperworks or khaki overall for smaller vessels (used later in 1904)
Green: Olive-drab (possibly just for the Vladivostok cruisers)

2^nd & 3^rd Pacific Squadrons
'Black' with ochre funnels and black funnel tops. The black will be a very dark grey probably with some lighter grey highlights

All with wooden decks and may add some off-white 'sandbags'

Presumably you have consulted the OSPREY books; they have one on the Russian Navy and one on the Japanese Navy.

I haven't consulted the Opreys as yet, can anyone point me at any reviews of them

Quote from: paulr on 13 July 2023, 07:37:15 AMI haven't consulted the Opreys as yet, can anyone point me at any reviews of them

You'll see some reviews of these on Amazon - the usual sublime to the ridiculous.  I can't comment on them but I've got the Osprey Russian Batleship vs Japanese Battleship - Yellow Sea 1904-05 which is a reasonable primer but leaves you wanting more really, which is a problem with the small Osprey format generally.  If you want something more substantial you could think about Piotr Olender's two volumes Russo-Japanese Naval War 1904-1905 Vol 1 - Port Arthur and Russo-Japanese Naval War 1904-1905 - Battle of Tsushima, published by Stratus 2009 and 2010 respectively.  These, in addition to the narrative are replete with photos, most of which I've not seen anywhere else, and have orders of battle, detailed maps of the battles, tables of specifications of all the ships, their captains, details of mining operations, register of torpedo attacks and line drawings.  The only thing they don't have is colour pics though.   They are still in print at about £25 per volume but I see there are Kindle versions at a fraction of that price. 

Japanese Osprey (https://ospreypublishing.com/uk/imperial-japanese-navy-of-the-russojapanese-war-9781472811196/)
Amazon entry (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Imperial-Japanese-Navy-Russo-Japanese-Vanguard/dp/1472811194)
Russian Osprey (https://ospreypublishing.com/uk/russian-battleships-and-cruisers-of-the-russojapanese-war-9781472835062/)
Amazon entry (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Russian-Battleships-Cruisers-Russo-Japanese-Vanguard/dp/1472835085)

Quote from: paulr on 12 July 2023, 08:18:28 PMContinuing the research for this project

Looking at details of weapons layout and other characteristics to develop Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) for each ship. Some 'interesting designs; two of the Matsushima class of protected cruisers have their one 12.6" gun forward while the third has it aft.

There was a class of monitors built by the Swedish navy in the late 19th century where 4 had a main (and only) gun mounted forward, and a 1/2 sister with the gun mounted aft to cover the rest during any retirement. Maybe this was the same idea? Would have been usefull in a strean chase if you were being chased (and it doesn't seem that they were fast enough to run away from anything).
Apparently the 12.6" gun had a firing rate of 2 rounds per hour.

Thanks hammurabi70

Just finished my first run through the Japanese Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) including all 21 Torpedo boat Divisions @-)  :-B

I've already done most of the major Russian vessels so mainly Torpedo boat destroyers and Torpedo boats left to do for them :!!

Quote from: Rhys on 14 July 2023, 01:30:20 AMThere was a class of monitors built by the Swedish navy in the late 19th century where 4 had a main (and only) gun mounted forward, and a 1/2 sister with the gun mounted aft to cover the rest during any retirement. Maybe this was the same idea? Would have been usefull in a strean chase if you were being chased (and it doesn't seem that they were fast enough to run away from anything).
Apparently the 12.6" gun had a firing rate of 2 rounds per hour.

Matsushima, Itsukushima and Hashidate were armed with 12.6" guns and were the three most heavily armed ships in the Japanese fleet at the 1894 Battle of the Yalu River......I'm sure you remember the refight we did at the Warlords many years ago Rhys when we played as the Chinese and fairly well beat the Japanese as their two squadrons were totally un-coordinated with each other?  :)       

You could try the following

Janes Fighting shipe 1905-1906 - contains loads of info and an old style set ot wargames rule

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31528502046&ref_=ps_ggl_2039220669&cm_mmc=ggl-_-UK_Shopp_Tradestandard-_-product_id=UK9780715349236USED-_-keyword=&gclid=CjwKCAjw5MOlBhBTEiwAAJ8e1hfXkpq9Ap826ZEk703lypArdBlwQPBJXJSWAh3xSo-MytpKhmaIphoClFoQAvD_BwE


The Imperial Russian Navy - FT Jane

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=31422166315&searchurl=an%3Djane%26sortby%3D17%26tn%3Dimperial%2Brussian%2Bnavy&cm_sp=snippet-_-srp1-_-title2

The Imperial Japanese Navy - FT Jane

https://www.amazon.co.uk/imperial-Japanese-navy-Fred-Jane/dp/9353895162

Quote from: pierre the shy on 14 July 2023, 08:29:56 AMMatsushima, Itsukushima and Hashidate were armed with 12.6" guns and were the three most heavily armed ships in the Japanese fleet at the 1894 Battle of the Yalu River......I'm sure you remember the refight we did at the Warlords many years ago Rhys when we played as the Chinese and fairly well beat the Japanese as their two squadrons were totally un-coordinated with each other?  :)       

I do remember that game. Somehow I got put in charge of the Chinese fleet and whatever rules we were using I could only issue 4 word orders. I noticed that the 2 Japanese column were a huge distance apart and so aimed for the nearest column and hoisted " line abreast follow me" (or something like that).
Short story was that the ram and torpedo won out over the quick firing gun, setting naval design back at least 10 years.

Sounds like a fun game that suited Rhys' usual playing style ;)  ;D

QuoteYou could try the following

Janes Fighting Ships 1905-1906 - contains loads of info and an old style set of wargames rules
...

I have a copy within arms reach of my desk  :)

It was withdrawn from the reference collection of the Wellington library many years ago.

It also contains accounts of the war from both the Japanese and Russian standpoint and a summary of each of the actions. And this comment on the Battle of Tsushima, "Accurate details of the fight are not likely to arrive for some time and a description is left to next year's issue."

Just as well I bought the WCC Library's 1906-07 edition, probably in the same sale, that has all the battle reports in it then :)

I also have found my copy of Jane's contemporary book on the Russian navy which Orcs refers to above....its an interesting read as he compares the Russian and British navies but also broader national "characteristics".

Sorry don't have a copy of the Japanese one, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad!

Feel free to bring both along to our next game ;)

Finished my first cut of all the Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) :-B  @-)  #:-S

Will need to check them for consistency etc over the next week or two...

Found convincing evidence that the RN paint scheme changed from black/white/ochre to overall grey in 1903 after the 1902 fleet review and experiments with various colour schemes in the Med in the early 1900's. The exact shade of grey seems to vary between ships/commands/dockyards, a bit like the later IJN schemes.

So grey it will be, when the fleet arrives. At least its not a WW1 dazzle scheme  :)   

Atlantic fleet(later Home and Grand) is dark grey, Med Fleet light grey, almost white.

Pierre the Shy has reported the arrival of a large box from Navwar :)

Yes the "complete RJW at sea in a box" plus "a few other bits and pieces" ;) turned up yesterday....that marvel of 1970's tech, the fax, still works!

that should keep us entertained for the next little while, in between trialing a few Irish War of the 3 Kingdoms scenarioes of course....

A small request. Please don't post anything more about this project.

I am already eyeing the Pendraken Russo-Japanese ranges, and recently re-watched the Kamchatka video and I'm slightly interested in pre-Dreadnaughts, and I don't need another project. :(

Especially don't post any pictures. They have a bad effect on my wallet.

(https://as1.ftcdn.net/v2/jpg/01/80/99/22/1000_F_180992247_5LyLLTpbIPfC1i6yXLJkUnSI3Upg4aX0.jpg)

I'll get Bill to do a brief benediction at the start of our next call to remove any temptation  :)

Kia kaha! (stay strong) 

Quote from: fsn on 25 July 2023, 09:53:10 AMEspecially don't post any pictures. They have a bad effect on my wallet.

Money talks. What it says to me is,"Goodbye!" :)

Quote from: pierre the shy on 24 July 2023, 08:17:33 PM..that marvel of 1970's tech, the fax, still works! 

First fax machines were around in the 1800s???
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fax

After some more research on ship colours I've decide on:

Japan
Neutral grey with funnel tops and mast tops on larger ships black

Russia
1^st Pacific Squadron

Black:	Black hulls, upper works & funnels but with a brown tint due to poor quality lamp-black pigment. Used for all ships not mentioned below
Black&Brown:	Black hulls with khaki upperworks looks to have been used during the siege when a number of ships were disarmed to reinforce the land defenses, so won't be used
Brown:	Khaki overall for smaller vessels, will use for the Protected cruisers at Port Arthur
Green:	Olive-drab - Vladivostok cruisers and the 2nd Destroyer Flotilla at Port Arthur

2^nd & 3^rd Pacific Squadrons
'Black' with ochre funnels and black funnel tops. The black will be a very dark grey probably with some lighter grey highlights

All with wooden decks and may add some off-white 'sandbags'

I'll prepare and paint some test examples before finalising the paint colours to use

Nobby - look away now




Pierre the Shy delivered my share of the NavWar order at our regular game last night :)

He had identified that one pack had been missed from the order and it included one of the 4 cruisers at Vladivostok :o 
Fortunately for me Pierre the Shy already had the missing cruiser and very kindly gifted it to me #:-S
He had already added the masts :-bd

I started by sorting all the packs

Japanese
(https://i.imgur.com/ftJJxgw.jpg)

Russian 1^st Pacific Squadron, 2^nd Pacific Squadron
Some 2^nd Pacific Squadron ships in packs with the 1^st Pacific Squadron
(https://i.imgur.com/DCwNY7Y.jpg)

I've spent a large chunk of my Sunday sorting and preparing the ships of the Russian 1^st Pacific Squadron :)

They have now been drilled for masts and washed

One of the Krechet class destroyers is miscast :(
Fortunately, it is the lower hull  #:-S
Which should be patchable with putty :-SS

Quote from: paulr on 28 July 2023, 10:56:58 PMAfter some more research on ship colours I've decide on:

Japan
Neutral grey with funnel tops and mast tops on larger ships black

Yes, photographs from the period will bear that out.  :-\ 

Putty applied to Krechet class destroyer, it will need a small amount :^o  of tidying up once fully dry

Japanese 1^st & 2^nd Squadrons sorted, prepared and drilled for masts :)  :)  :)

One of the Harusame class destroyers lost part of its bow during preparation, I claim it must have been miscast ^#(^
Putty applied, it will need a small amount :^o  of tidying up

Has Peter proxied something for the Kamchatka? It wasn't readily apparent in the model inventory.

I included N7709 KAMCHATKA – ARMED REPAIR SHIP in my order :)

 :-bd

Quote

QuoteI included N7709 KAMCHATKA – ARMED REPAIR SHIP in my order :)

Armed and dangerous ... to everyone but the Japanese!!

Don't worry there's plenty of potential opposition for the Kamchatka (and friends) being worked on here in the local dockyards currently.....the Hull fishing fleet (alias the Channel Fleet) represents only one part of it....lets just say I'm reducing my existing Navwar leadpile a bit at the same time  O:-) 

Mast holes drilled and brass rod masts stepped.....models cleaned up...Navwar are pretty good, normally just a few moulding lines to get rid of.

No spray primer painting today though, with a good nor'wester coming through today, gusting to 120Km/hr tonight...can't beat Wellington on a good day!

Fast foward to 1943 and apparently the IJN is conducting night fighting exercises in a couple of weeks, somewhere to the North of Ironbottom Sound this time.

Japanese 1^st & 2^nd Squadrons washed

Putty cleaned up on the Krechet class destroyer #:-S

First attempt at tiding up the putty on the Harusame class destroyer failed #-o
Reapplied the putty and successfully tidied it up once dry #:-S

Masts glued into the Russian 1^st Pacific Squadron and trimmed once dry :)
Only about 10 masts required re-gluing

Masts glued into the Japanese 1^st & 2^nd Squadrons

Russians on painting rods ready to undercoat once the weather improves :-w

QuoteNo spray primer painting today though, with a good nor'wester coming through today, gusting to 120Km/hr tonight...can't beat Wellington on a good day!

Couldn't you just open your tin of paint and put the ships downwind in that case?

Quote from: OldenBUA on 01 August 2023, 12:40:06 PMCouldn't you just open your tin of paint and put the ships downwind in that case?

;D

Quote from: OldenBUA on 01 August 2023, 12:40:06 PMCouldn't you just open your tin of paint and put the ships downwind in that case?

Sounds like a plan!  :)

While you blokes on the top half of the world are setting new high tempreture records its currently 3 degrees C here, about 0 degrees with the wind chill and snow predicted to low levels tomorrow.

So much for global warming ;)

   

QuoteCouldn't you just open your tin of paint and put the ships downwind in that case?

Given some of the wind gusts in the last couple of days the ships and the full tin of paint would have been blown away

Quote from: pierre the shy on 02 August 2023, 10:53:09 AMSounds like a plan!  :)
While you blokes on the top half of the world are setting new high tempreture records its currently 3 degrees C here, about 0 degrees with the wind chill and snow predicted to low levels tomorrow.
So much for global warming ;)

Blimey, I thought Antarctica was unihabited. 

Quote from: pierre the shy on 02 August 2023, 10:53:09 AMWhile you blokes on the top half of the world are setting new high tempreture records its currently 3 degrees C here, about 0 degrees with the wind chill and snow predicted to low levels tomorrow.

So much for global warming ;)

July here in Scotland was wet, windy, grey and below average temperatures much of the time or "guy dreich" to use the vernacular :)

Masts trimmed on the Japanese 1^st & 2^nd Squadrons :)

Most of the Japanese 1^st Squadron joined the Russians on painting rods ready to undercoat  :)

The weather was cool and calm this morning and had clawed its way to spraying temperatures in the sun by about 11am

Brought the ships back inside to finish drying in the warm after about 45 minutes in the sun

Base colour applied to all the undercoated ships :)

Japanese:
  Neutral blue grey

Russians:
  Olive-drab - Vladivostok cruisers and 2^nd Destroyer Flotilla at Port Arthur
  Khaki - Protected cruisers at Port Arthur
  Black with a brown tint for the rest

Ships dry brushed :)

Funnel tops painted :)

Decks painted, two coats as light decks over darker base colours :)
There will need to be some touch ups :-SS

Ships' boats painted :) 
A good way to add some variety and emphasise the detail of the models

Order of bases and 'other things' from Pendraken has cleared Customs and is on its way to a local/regional delivery depot :-w

Interestingly this order includes only one 10mm pack :o

But lots of other things ;)

Looking forward to seeing some painted ships when they're done. Shame the Navwar site doesn't have many, if any, images :( .

The pictures are getting closer ;)

I've done the touch ups and was very very pleased:

• that I didn't need to go back and touch up any of the decks #:-S
• the second lot of Black with a brown tint that I mixed up matched the first #:-S  #:-S

A package from Pendraken arrived today with the bases for the ships and some other things :)

First batch of bases painted on both sides :)

All this harking back to range estimation and other 2nd generation gaming mechanics prompted me to comtemplate a 1st generation naval game.

Large patio, or gym hall, fairly large cardboard cutout warships and a nerf gun for each team.

Little (Naval) Wars.

Sounds like fun ;D

Ships washed :)

Magnetic vinyl glued to underside of first batch of bases :)

One side of second batch of bases painted :)

Torpedo boat bases painted sea colour :)

The smaller NavWar torpedo boats have an integral sea base so all the ships will have seascape bases rather than my normal flat bases to match the blue sheet I use as a base cloth

Second side done on second batch of bases :)

Pierre the Shy has kindly printed the ship labels for me which I'll collect at our regular game tonight :)

Second coat on the Torpedo boat bases :)

Magnetic vinyl glued to second batch of bases :)

First side painted on third batch of bases :)

Second side painted on third batch of bases :)

Magnetic vinyl glued to third batch of bases :)

Bases labeled for all but two of the currently painted ships :)  :)

Some fool forgot to create the labels for the two Russian Minelayers #-o
I've created them now and will get them printed, along with any others I've missed, by the kindly Pierre the Shy

Ships sorted onto bases freeing up painting rods for the next batch :!!
Wednesday next week is the first day forecast to have undercoating weather :-w

Weather was better than expected this afternoon  :)

So a half batch of Japanese ships that I had already prepared and added masts to have been under coated :)

Half batch of Japanese ships base coated  :)

Quote from: paulr on 23 August 2023, 07:26:17 AMWeather was better than expected this afternoon  :)

So a half batch of Japanese ships that I had already prepared and added masts to have been under coated :)

So, the half batch was insufficiently coated and now have to be recoated?  :-\  :D

I prepared more ships than would fit on my 6 painting rods

The first 'batch' filled the 6 rods, the remaining ships were put aside

When the first batch had been painted and moved off the rods the put aside ships were put onto the rods and filled 3 rods i.e half a batch

I spray under coat a medium grey then base coat in the appropriate hull colour

In the case of these Japanese ships a medium blue grey

So no recoating but expected additional coats

Filler, paint and PVA mixture used to create seascapes and ships based :)

Japanese half batch base coat touched up :)

Japanese half batch dry brushed & first coat of deck colour done :)  :)

Wakes and waves painted on seascapes :)

Japanese half batch second coat of deck colour done :)

Any photos?

The weather is cooperating so I probably should take some ;)

I need to get some matt varnish to finish the ships :!!

Japanese half batch details done :)

It was decided that I should take advantage of the good weather to tidy up the lawn and some of the garden :-<

Painted both sides of some additional bases for the Japanese half batch :)

Magnetic vinyl glued to bottom of bases :)

I sense that pictures are about to arrive?  :)

QuoteI sense that pictures are about to arrive?  :)

Who needs pictures when we have such erudite descriptions.

Labels sorted for the Japanese half batch and the 2 Russian minelayers :)

I'm short 2 bases for torpedo boats so need to paint another batch of those bases :!!

QuoteI sense that pictures are about to arrive?  :)

You may well be right, as long as I'm not required to spend two days gardening X_X  :-t

Some pictures may have appeared in another thread :-$

Did someone mention pictures :-\

Japanese ships so far - to give a sense of scale the larger bases are 75x30mm and the smaller 50x15mm
(https://i.imgur.com/k7Olw7R.jpg)

Battleships and Protected Cruisers
(https://i.imgur.com/U1TQAeL.jpg)

Battleships and Protected & Unprotected Cruisers
(https://i.imgur.com/CjamnEU.jpg)

Battleships and Protected Cruiser
(https://i.imgur.com/FcdekHV.jpg)

Torpedo Boat Destroyers & Torpedo Boat
(https://i.imgur.com/35pvXTm.jpg)

Russian ships so far
(https://i.imgur.com/DEnwT6r.jpg)

Battleships, Armoured and Protected Cruisers
(https://i.imgur.com/J1gIDeC.jpg)

Battleships, Armoured and Protected Cruisers, Gunboats, Torpedo Boat Destroyers and Torpedo Boats
(https://i.imgur.com/EDGw2CU.jpg)

Battleships, Armoured and Protected Cruisers
(https://i.imgur.com/2cEYVt2.jpg)

Battleships, Armoured and Protected Cruisers, Gunboats, Torpedo Boat Destroyers and Torpedo Boats
(https://i.imgur.com/cCeDUix.jpg)

Very nice! Worth the wait.  :-bd

 :-bd  :-bd  :-bd

But where is the Kamchatka? Has the "Hull fishing fleet" already caught up to her?  :-SS  :-\

Probably not since I was waiting for the Russians to arrive before finishing the Channel Fleet.

The simple answer I think you will find is that not even Paul has enough painting rods to fit all the ships we got at once ;D 

Cracking work and well worth the wait 8) !

Brilliant work. Looks ace

I have to say poor old No 69.

It doesn't have a real name; it's only half tuberculosis, and I bet it's crew gets mocked mercilessly about their nocturnal activities.


Beautiful work.




(https://media.giphy.com/media/fC3aUlPjTr3Lq/giphy.gif)

QuoteI have to say poor old No 69...

She deserves more pity than you think.
No69 was lost 28.5.1905 during Tsushima battle: she was rammed by the torpedo boat destroyer Akatsuki (former Russian Reshitelny).
She was the only torpedo boat of her class sunk during the war.

A batch of smaller bases painted and magnetic vinyl glued on the bottom :)

Labels applied to the 2 bases I was short :)

Quote from: paulr on 11 September 2023, 07:11:36 AMNo69 was lost 28.5.1905 during Tsushima battle: she was rammed by the torpedo boat destroyer Akatsuki (former Russian Reshitelny).

Oh no! Was she split in two so both ends end down?

 X_X

Finally got around to doing the grey touch ups on the half batch of Japanese :)

Look to have avoided the need to do any deck or other touch ups, so avoided the circle of doom #:-S

Those look great! 

Washed the Japanese half batch :)

A couple of coats of blue on the integral bases of the smaller torpedo boats in the Japanese half batch :)  :)

Sorted, prepared and washed a batch of Russian ships :)  :)  :)

Drilled the holes and glued in masts on the batch of Russian ships :)  :)

Based the half batch of Japanese ships, plus the couple of Russian Minelayers I'd missed the labels for :)

Cut masts to length on the Russian batch :)

Had to reglue a couple of the masts, lost one in the process and had to recut, reglue and cut to length again :-w 
Fortunately the glue held on both reglued masts  :)

Painted waves and wakes on the half batch of Japanese ships, plus the Russian Minelayers :)

Undercoated the Russian batch :)

Painted the first side of a couple of batches of bases need for the Russian batch :)

Grabbed some pictures of the Japanese half batch

Armoured Cruisers, Protected Cruisers & Torpedo Boats

(https://i.imgur.com/dSrcXZo.jpg)

Armoured Cruisers, Protected Cruisers, Torpedo Boat Destroyers & Torpedo Boats

(https://i.imgur.com/t4K76ko.jpg)

Russian Mine Layers

(https://i.imgur.com/79Vj1Vk.jpg)

Very very impressive work.

Looking good, Paul.

I look forward to seeing them in action.

Cracking work once again!

Painted the second side of a couple of batches of bases needed for the Russian batch a couple of days ago :)

Glued magnetic vinyl under the bases yesterday :)

Labeled the bases this morning :)

Base coated the ships of the Russian batch this evening :)

Good progress today on the Russian batch:

• dry brushed :)
• two coats on the decks :)
• two coats on the funnels :)

Ships boats and details done :)

Touch ups done :)

Hopefully the final touch ups done :-B

If anyone here is contemplating diving into 1/3000th naval using Navwar stuff you'd better hold your horses for a while as Tony of Navwar is evidently currently recouperating from an accident  :(

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=573679 (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=573679)

I really hope Tony is able to get back to full health. Like with Pendraken I am a long time customer of Navwar.....long may they continue....I can see myself assisting by buying "a few" more items from him  O:-) 



 

Spotted a couple more areas that needed touching up, done this morning :)

Ships washed this evening :)

Also working through the Russian Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) checking the calculations and making sure I had the right numbers and variants of guns etc. :-B @-)

Moved Russian ships off my painting rods onto their bases, ready for basing :)

Next batch are Japanese

Sorted, prepared and washed :)

Masts added & ships undercoated  :) :)

Russian ships based :)

Japanese ships base coated :)

Touched up base coat and did first coat on the decks yesterday  :)  :)

Some progress yesterday:

• Second deck coat done on Japanese :)
• Wave tops and wakes painted on Russian ship bases :)

Russian 2^nd & 3^rd Pacific Squadrons

Battleships

(https://i.imgur.com/V7cQAUd.jpg)

Armoured & Protected Cruisers, Repair ship, Armed Merchant Cruiser, Tugs, Torpedo Boat Destroyers

(https://i.imgur.com/esavpMY.jpg)

That's a big batch! Awesome
How many will survive first contact.

That is indeed an impressive collection!

Great stuff - lots and lots of ships!

There is a lot of variance in size of the cruisers, some seem as large as a battleship and others are way smaller. Is this simply because cruiser is a bit of a catch-all class?

Looking good  :-bd

Thanks for the divison spreadsheet you sent through.

Now that the Kamchatka has arrived I better get on with the "Hull fishing fleet".

As I live and breathe, the Repair Ship Kamchatka, the scourge of the seven seas!  :D

The entire project is lovely work.  :-bd  :-bd

Good stuff!

Thanks all :)  :D

Quote...
How many will survive first contact.

That's hard to tell :-SS
The forces at the beginning of the war are more balanced than history would lead you to believe. There are a few simple steps the Russians could have taken to significantly improve their position. Most were advocated for at the time.

Quote...
There is a lot of variance in size of the cruisers, some seem as large as a battleship and others are way smaller. Is this simply because cruiser is a bit of a catch-all class?

Recent Armoured cruisers were expected to be able to extend the battle line so are quite large, some of the older ones are smaller Ironclads from the 1880s refitted with slightly newer guns. Protected cruisers tend to be smaller but some are quite long to improve speed (and allow for more machinery).

Japanese 3^rd Squadron to finish then this project will be done.

I finailsed the Russian Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) over the weekend and started looking at scenarios (at least a dozen historical ones).

Touched up base coat :)

Painted funnel tops, ships boats and other details :)  :)  :)

Touched up base coat again :-B  :)

Started finalising the Japanese Ship Damage Summaries (SDS)  :-B  :-w  :)

Painted bases :)

Washed ships :)

Continued finalising the Japanese Ship Damage Summaries (SDS)  :-B  :-w  :)
Torpedo Boat Destroyers and Torpedo Boats left to do :!!

Do I remember right that the Russian ships coming from the Baltic should be filthy because they had to carry coal on their decks on account of there being no coaling stations between there and Port Arthur?

QuoteDo I remember right that the Russian ships coming from the Baltic should be filthy because they had to carry coal on their decks on account of there being no coaling stations between there and Port Arthur?

There was a re-coaling arrangement with German Colliers, so some replenishment was possible.

But yes, all ships took on coal above their bunker capacity, stacking it on decks, in storerooms and even in corridors.

There were deaths form respiratory illness.
I've seen sources describing the situation as causing "primitive fuel-air bombs".

Not a good combination with Japan's high capacity and hot-burning shells.

Helpfully the ships were painted black, with yellow ochre funnels, so only the decks looked grubby ;)

Glued magnetic vinyl to bases :)

Labeled bases :)

Continuing to finalising the Japanese Ship Damage Summaries (SDS)  :-B  :-w  :)

The weapons layouts on the Torpedo Boat Destroyers and Torpedo Boats are 'interesting' to say the least :-/  @-)  ~X(

I managed to discover this very useful site combrig-models.com (https://combrig-models.com/index.php) with images such as these which show where the various weapons are and can fire (https://combrig-models.com/images/stories/instructions/is70182_ijn_tbs.jpg)

Bookmarked that site thanks  :-bd

Get thee behind me!

Saw another update about Navwar today - evidently they are now running through existing stock as Tony is still not able to use his casting machinery  :(

So if you do need anything from him now is hour apparently, and be sure to advise alternatives as stuff is going fast:

http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=574459 (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=574459)

Yes, the link goes to a thread about "the other Partisan show 2023", but if you scroll past that you will see the Navwar update......don't ask me why it was posted there...welcome to TMP!  ;D

Paul R - I have a cunning plan to source a few more 1/3000 goodies - only if required of course  :)

Painted integral bases on the torpedo boats :)

Sorted ships on to bases ready for basing :)

Continuing to finalise Ship Damage Summaries (SDS), making slow but steady progress

Up to 9^th Torpedo Boat Division of 21 #:-S

Ships based :)

Now I've got no excuse to not continue finalising Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) :!! X_X

Finalised the Japanese Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) #:-S

Now I just need to check the Russians  :!! X_X

Made a good start on checking the Russian Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) :)

Painted the wakes and waves on the latest Japanese battleships and cruisers :)

Smaller vessels still to do :!!

Finally got a chance today to tidy up the sea around the cast bases of the torpedo boats

For some reason they hadn't blended in as well as the other batches

Fortunately the new batch of basing mix matched the old batch pretty closely #:-S

Wakes and waves for the smaller vessels will get done tomorrow when the basing mix is fully dry :-w

Wakes and waves done on smaller Japanese vessels :)

Pictures of the last batch

Japanese 3^rd Squadron

Ironclad, Armoured & Protected cruisers

(https://i.imgur.com/Mr0RHO3.jpg)

Protected & Unprotected cruisers, Gunboats

(https://i.imgur.com/WYCXkGU.jpg)

2^nd & 3^rd class torpedo boats

(https://i.imgur.com/QoD1Wef.jpg)

And that is the last of the ships for this project painted :)

	Russians	Japanese
Battleships & Cruisers	41	36
Smaller vessels	20	46
Total	61	82

Next on this project will be, in no particular order:

• Finalising the Ship Damage Summaries (SDS)
• Working on the dozen or so historic scenarios
• Building Port Arthur - at the ground scale used it will be an approximately 3', 4', 5' triangle in the north west corner of the table
• Developing a campaign - including some better pre-war decisions by the Russians

More excellent work there Paul 8) .

Great stuff Paul - an impressive pair of fleets.

Hopefully this is wrong, but is Matsushima (first pic, right had side) the right way round? Seems odd to have the turret at the back, and looks different to the two above it.

Quote

Building Port Arthur - at the ground scale used it will be an approximately 3', 4', 5' triangle in the north west corner of the table

Just a little extra for the project then!

Quote from: fred. on 26 November 2023, 08:00:01 AMHopefully this is wrong, but is Matsushima (first pic, right had side) the right way round? Seems odd to have the turret at the back, and looks different to the two above it.

To quote Wiki
Matsushima differed from her sister ships primarily in the location of her main gun, which was situated behind the superstructure instead of in the bow.

Anyway great work.

QuoteTo quote Wiki
Matsushima differed from her sister ships primarily in the location of her main gun, which was situated behind the superstructure instead of in the bow.

Anyway great work.

Interesting design choice! Was the aim that when they operated as a squadron they could cover all directions?

QuoteInteresting design choice! Was the aim that when they operated as a squadron they could cover all directions?

That was indeed the plan ;)

I must admit to being a bit confused when first sorting the models

It's nice to know some people are looking in detail :D

A month or so ago I discussed what was next on this project, I'm pleasantly surprised to say that I've made good progress:

• Finalising the Ship Damage Summaries (SDS) - Done  :)
• Working on the dozen or so historic scenarios - Started on the first two :!!
• Building Port Arthur - at the ground scale used it will be an approximately 3', 4', 5' triangle in the north west corner of the table - created and printed the gridded map to transfer to a suitable board (left over from Guadalcanal), created 'SDS' and markers for all defenses :)  :!!
• Developing a campaign - including some better pre-war decisions by the Russians - lucked out on this one  :D

I was required to do a sort-out and clean-up of our spare bedroom which was a shared storage space for my wargames stuff and my wife's stuff :(

In the process I came across a photocopy of three articles, Part 1 was in Wargames Illustrated 178, by Dave Manley on Naval Battles of the Russo Japanese War  :)

The third article is The Mini Campaign which aligned very much with the campaign I had started to develop in my head (or perhaps I was vaguely remembering this article from two decades ago)  :-bd

Yesterday, I enjoyed spending a few hours typing up the campaign rules and converting them to use our Pre-Dreadnought variant of General Quarters I/II rather than David's precursor to You May Fire When Ready, Gridley

I've still got a little more to do on them, but they look like they will generate a fascinating campaign. They even include the possibility of the better pre-war decisions by the Russians I alluded to, plus a few more

I also found a suitable, near period, map that I've used to improve on the black & white line drawing campaign map from the article

(https://i.imgur.com/VB7VgBJ.jpg)

After returning from holiday I've made more progress on this project :)

I transferred the gridded map of Port Arthur and the surrounding bay to a 6mm MDF board (left over from Guadalcanal). Roy, our regular wargames host, has a jig saw. He kindly cut it out for me, and I painted it up and added markers for the shore defenses yesterday.

The Russian First Pacific anchored in the roadstead of Port Arthur
(https://i.imgur.com/vCibO7u.jpg)

There appear to be some Japanese visitors :o
(https://i.imgur.com/81gJnN8.jpg)

While it doesn't quite fit on my dining table it will comfortably fit on a 6'x4' wargames table. The boards form an approximately 3', 4', 5' triangle. I've separated it into three segments so that it's no more than 2' wide, making it more manageable and storable.

I've also made a started on another scenario as Pierre the Shy is interested to see how the Pre-Dreadnought version of General Quarters works. Hopefully we will fight the Battle of Ulsan later this month. 

Crikey that's impressive

That's an impressive bit of terrain - when you first said the size of this, I naively assumed it was a typo of feet for inches!

I assume the white squares are defenders. Are you going to stick with painted reliefs for the hills? Just wondering if on the peninsular it would add to game play if they were 3d, or that's all a bit much for a naval game.

The grey squares are indeed shore batteries

I'll be sticking with painted reliefs for the hills as it is so much quicker and easier to do. It still looks reasonably good and makes storage much easier :)

In game terms the coastline is the bit that matters