Why didn't Phil tell us about this innovative idea? ;)
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57639510 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-57639510)
So simple, too - e.g., how many of us have 'walked' a heavy fridge/freezer or 3' x 2' stone slabs?
That's not how we they did it.
Cheers - Phil. :)
The Egyptians left us images of how they move large objects and it doesn't look like this bloke suggests, it looks like this:
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse4.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.bQZndfb0x5ys1Q2uqdd2CAHaDH%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
Also, Egyptians were smart enough to work out how to make this contraption but people in Scotland weren't? Despite the Scottish stone circles pre-dating the Pyramids by centuries?
FK may already have worked out my view of this :)
This a solution looking for a problem! :D
Quote from: Techno II on 06 July 2021, 11:28:51 AM
That's not how we they did it.
Cheers - Phil. :)
So how DID you do it Phil ? :o :o
There is a legend that:
'He, who shall be Nameless'... upon seeing the wretched drudgery of 'The People' and hearing their lamentations that life hath no meaning for them... desired to change this.
'He, who shall be Nameless', Commanded: "Find Me an artificer who will make it so!"
Such artificer was found, and he sayeth to 'He who shall be nameless'... " Um, Ok, I'll see what I can do..."
After much thought and consultation of ancient texts, the artificer set to work.
After many trials, tribulations and grievous woundings, the artificer created... very little men.
And 'He, who shall be Nameless' looked upon them and sayeth "What?" !!! "How shall we build a Temple to end the drudgery and Lamentations of 'The People', with These?"
But, 'The People', upon seeing 'the little men'... looked kindly upon them... worshipped them and made sacrifice that they might increase in number.
And the belief of 'The People' caused the little men to make the 'Great Stones' to move so that a Temple was Made.
And 'He, who shall be Nameless', looked kindly upon the grievously wounded artificer and sayeth unto him... "Truly, Thou Art 'The Artificer'. Thy wounds shall heal... and Thou wills't create untold legions of Little Men in perpetuity, so that the Lamentations of 'The People' shall endeth!"
"Now, there are some Requests..."
=O =O =O =D>
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 06 July 2021, 03:10:23 PM
So how DID you do it Phil ? :o :o
It's
obvious =)......
We They broke them up into small enough pieces, to carry.....Then
we they used a type of ancient superglue to put them back together, once the stones were in the right location.
It's been
so well done, you can't see
any of the joins.
Cheers - Phil. :)....(Who's this He who shall be Nameless ?)
Quote from: Techno II on 07 July 2021, 06:26:52 AM
It's obvious =)......We They broke them up into small enough pieces, to carry.....Then we they used a type of ancient superglue to put them back together, once the stones were in the right location.
It's been so well done, you can't see any of the joins.
Cheers - Phil. :)....(Who's this He who shall be Nameless ?)
How many did you stick to yourself Phil ? ^#(^
Quote from: Techno II on 07 July 2021, 06:26:52 AM
It's obvious =)......We They broke them up into small enough pieces, to carry.....Then we they used a type of ancient superglue to put them back together, once the stones were in the right location.
It's been so well done, you can't see any of the joins.
Cheers - Phil. :)....(Who's this He who shall be Nameless ?)
Just Maybe...a few 'pins' MIGHT have been a good idea? ;D
Lord, 'He who shall be Nameless', we beseech Thee... Smite not Thy loyal Artificer.. aged through millennia of toil. He Tries... Gift Him with ''Three score and Three' of Fine Horses to Praise Your Nameless'es !
It really does look like a solution in search of a problem...
I thought it was established the Egyptian's had a succession of dug-used-refilled canals for the bulk of the work, then the sleds as pictured for the final stages.
I suppose the megalithic builders of NWE might have done things differently but that looks a very complicated piece of kit... it *does* explain all those odd carved stone "ball bearings" though, and I suspect digging canals across these islands would be bloody hard work compared to the terrain between the Nile and the Pyramids?
Quote from: toxicpixie on 07 July 2021, 11:46:24 AM
It really does look like a solution in search of a problem...
So was 'The Bouncing Bomb'! lol.
But... this does look like 'Too Much Time In A Shed!' ;D
Quote from: toxicpixie on 07 July 2021, 11:46:24 AM
It really does look like a solution in search of a problem...
I thought it was established the Egyptian's had a succession of dug-used-refilled canals for the bulk of the work, then the sleds as pictured for the final stages.
I suppose the megalithic builders of NWE might have done things differently but that looks a very complicated piece of kit... it *does* explain all those odd carved stone "ball bearings" though, and I suspect digging canals across these islands would be bloody hard work compared to the terrain between the Nile and the Pyramids?
I'm with the group who think the easiest way to get the stones to Stonehenge
et al from their source is by sea. Cut wooden rollers, heave blocks onto the rollers (or onto a frame on the rollers), roll to the nearest bank of a sizeable river or the nearest beach, turn the rollers into a raft, float stone as near as possible to Stonehenge site, turn raft back into rollers, position stone, rinse and repeat.
Probably! Think a Sarsen might be TOO much for a Chinook.. and HEAVY lifting tor the average Priest/Druid! 'Landscape gardeners' wouldn't be seen for flying 'Mud Clods'...
Awe! :o
Saw a TV doc about a 'new' site on Orkney.. a 'Temple complex' (pos. predating Stonehenge!). Rather interesting!). Sorry, no link!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 07 July 2021, 12:38:01 PM
I'm with the group who think the easiest way to get the stones to Stonehenge et al from their source is by sea. Cut wooden rollers, heave blocks onto the rollers (or onto a frame on the rollers), roll to the nearest bank of a sizeable river or the nearest beach, turn the rollers into a raft, float stone as near as possible to Stonehenge site, turn raft back into rollers, position stone, rinse and repeat.
Hell yes, let the water do as much of the heavy lifting as possible!
But it's the last awkward bits that's the problem, where you HAVE to haul them overland - the Egyptians dug some massive canals but their population, bureaucracy, economy and terrain supported that; I'm not convinced stone age Britain did (and we'd likely have seen the evidence if so).
The grooved timber "tracks" with "stone ball bearings in" for sleds carrying the stones to roll along seems a good idea... the walking machine seems a lot more awkward and complex...
We're all making guesses, and I have to admit stone age megalith monuments is not exactly my area of research :D
A raft could get pretty close to Stonehenge, or so I'm told. Obviously we aren't 100% sure how navigable the rivers were 5,000 years ago nor what their exact course was but today the river at Amesbury is only about a kilometre from the Stonehenge site.
That's still at least 1000m of land to get over... which is a bloody long way to carry a 30t block of stone... could there have been canals dug over for that length? I don't *think* so, but it's possible... but a "roller track" (or a set of lengths of grooved timber with ballbearings, moved out from the back and slotted back in front as you go) sounds plausible and is well within the technoclogy and manpower constraints, I think...
Quote from: Ithoriel on 07 July 2021, 12:38:01 PM
I'm with the group who think the easiest way to get the stones to Stonehenge et al from their source is by sea. Cut wooden rollers, heave blocks onto the rollers (or onto a frame on the rollers), roll to the nearest bank of a sizeable river or the nearest beach, turn the rollers into a raft, float stone as near as possible to Stonehenge site, turn raft back into rollers, position stone, rinse and repeat.
They tried that recently, the boat sank like a stone!
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 07 July 2021, 05:22:20 PM
They tried that recently, the boat sank like a stone!
They're gonna need a bigger boat...
Quote from: toxicpixie on 07 July 2021, 06:43:40 PM
They're gonna need a bigger boat...
I typed exactly the same thing. Posted it but there's no sign of it now?
Mr. Confused
Quote from: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 07 July 2021, 05:22:20 PM
They tried that recently, the boat sank like a stone!
"You're gonna need a bigger boat!" :)
The Egyptians carried huge stones by boat, I don't see the Neolithic Brits as any less clever.
OK .... now I'm even more confused!
Quote from: Ithoriel on 07 July 2021, 12:38:01 PM
I'm with the group who think the easiest way to get the stones to Stonehenge et al from their source is by sea. Cut wooden rollers, heave blocks onto the rollers (or onto a frame on the rollers), roll to the nearest bank of a sizeable river or the nearest beach, turn the rollers into a raft, float stone as near as possible to Stonehenge site, turn raft back into rollers, position stone, rinse and repeat.
So, the quarry in West Wales, down to the coast, onto a raft and across the Severn Sea to Somerset, which was quite a bit wetter than it is now, I believe, so yes, I'd believe a raft/boat could possibly get quite close.
The scary bit would be crossing the Severn estuary - might be more sensible to stick to the coast along South Wales, then across somewhere further up river than the bridges are now. Strong tides though.
I suspect the recreators did something wrong, in some way - anyone got a good link to their methodology?
Like Ithoriel says I can't imagine their boat-tech was substantially worse than e.g. the Egyptians but...
Apparently more recent efforts have been more successful than Atkinson was.
https://blog.stonehenge-stone-circle.co.uk/2012/10/03/moving-the-stonehenge-bluestones-at-last-a-successful-method-is-demonstrated/
That's a nice boat!
That should do the job :)
But it does mention the one 70' beneath Pembroke Dock!!!
We were there the other week, didn't spot it.
No bruised, broken and battered Boy Sprouts being shouted at by tweedy professors as their makeshift rafts sink, either.
I knew it was all a conspiracy...
Quote from: toxicpixie on 08 July 2021, 03:31:17 PM
I knew it was all a conspiracy...
To you Pixie everything is a conspracy
What about the theory that the pyramids were constructed of 'cement' blocks that were formed from individual moulds, in situ ?
This is why they fit so perfectly together.....(and why you can't even slip a piece of paper between the blocks.......apparently. =))
Anyone else seen that one ?
Cheers - Phil. :)
I believe that's what they say about Inca masonry.
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 July 2021, 05:12:50 AM
To you Pixie everything is a conspracy
You would say that, you're part of it. Them. I bet YOU built Stonehenge just to mess with us...
FIVE large'ish Stone blocks just FELL OUT of the front of the house last Summer! :'( :'( :'( A 'course' above a window on a 60s bungalow. Apparently had not bee 'tied in'.
The 'upside' was that,HAVING to get things repaired, it led to a whole lot of other work actually getting done! ;D :)
The Pyramids and Inca bulds... amazing what a 'dedicated, and enthusiastic team' can achieve... when they 'HAVE' to... :o ;)
Quote from: Techno II on 09 July 2021, 06:11:48 AM
What about the theory that the pyramids were constructed of 'cement' blocks that were formed from individual moulds, in situ ?
This is why they fit so perfectly together.....(and why you can't even slip a piece of paper between the blocks.......apparently. =))
Anyone else seen that one ?
Cheers - Phil. :)
Apart from the fact that the blocks in the pyramids aren't made of cement I see nothing wrong with this theory.
Besides, everyone* knows that the aliens laser cut the blocks for the Egyptians.
Otherwise the Egyptians couldn't have built them to the required tolerances to let the aliens land their spaceships on them. :)
*For a certain value of everyone
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 July 2021, 12:15:42 PM
Besides, everyone* knows that the aliens laser cut the blocks for the Egyptians.
How can the moderators permit the spreading of such nonsense on an erudite forum like what this is?
The pyramids were clearly built by time travellers to provide a stable landmark they could return from.
Time travellers? Pah! They're plug-in charging points for UFO's, everyone* knows that. :)
*see above :D
Quote from: Ithoriel on 09 July 2021, 01:14:56 PM
Time travellers? Pah! They're plug-in charging points for UFO's, everyone* knows that. :)
*see above :D
Now, there's a thought? Have any of the 'ancient aliens' theorists about Pyramids / Henges/ Nazca... etc. ever 'snapped' UFOs actually visiting the sites?
You used to see country stores / garages, with LONG defunct petrol pumps!
Maybe 'Geo Magnetic energy' just aint't 'Green' anymore? :o ;)
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 July 2021, 01:43:33 PM
Now, there's a thought? Have any of the 'ancient aliens' theorists about Pyramids / Henges/ Nazca... etc. ever 'snapped' UFOs actually visiting the sites?
You used to see country stores / garages, with LONG defunct petrol pumps!
Maybe 'Geo Magnetic energy' just aint't 'Green' anymore? :o ;)
No - they only come very late at night and have high end stealth gear
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 July 2021, 03:36:11 PM
No - they only come very late at night and have high end stealth gear
So... Galactic 'Teens' then... ;D
Just watched a recorded BBC Doc: 'Stonehenge... The Lost Circle, Revealed'. Suitably hirsute archaeologist tracing origin of the first Stonehenge circle of 'Bluestones'. Lab mineral analysis appears to trace back to two nearby outcrops in Wales. Some unfinished blocks stiil there? Prob was, quarried about 3 centuries before Stonehenge... so erected on another site...and recycled?
He found the remains of a Circle, close by... with evidence of stone removal... and corresponding in dimensions to Bluestone circle at Stonehenge. 'Possible' folklore tie to the 'Merlin Myth' in later tales? Certainly 'Seems' to fit the bill!
Transportation. He was sceptical about the 'coastal' method. Fabricated a 'sledge' and recruited gang of schoolkids to drag a slab about the size of one of the smaller stones 70 yds... successfully.
So, no real 'need' for 'advanced' techniques of trackways, bearings, 'walkers'...
Methinks... possible but 140 miles with detours, bridging, etc.? Well, 'maybe'! Could have been more than one method trialled?
Why? Unknown. But, remember... in 1870s /80s, 'Cleopatras's Needle(s)' Obelisks transported from Egypt to London and New York! People DO do 'strange' things... LOL!
The TV prog certainly plausible... worth the watch if it comes round.
Of course, these were the 'man-size' Bluestones... not the enormous, but 'locally' sourced Sarsens. THEY would have been 'Real B*****s' to shift!
(But, just maybe... someone wanted to replace their patio with Decking... and someone, seeing the Skip, said: " 'Ere! If you don't want those bits, can I grab a few?" )
;D ;D ;D
Thanks for flagging up the programme. Just watched it on the Beeb website and an interesting watch it was too.