Hm. This Srarted as a 'reply' but has become an Aggravated 'Rant! My Apologies; But 'Anti Smoking' REALLY GETS MY RAG UP! ... Lost SO Much!
ALWAYS used Top deck / back end of a bus or smoking carriage... and ALWAYS... and still Do, when I can... have my 'smoke screen'! Pub Bars are MEANT to be Smoe filled.. 30+ years of comfort and 70 years OK on Sreen! NOT 'Comfortable ' at All, now...so don't go.
Do Not Believe 'Stat' Data! It will have been 'skewed' BEFORE reception...then 'adjusted' to 'account', maybe... than 'presented for purposes'! COMPLETELY FALSE start to finish!
Most Smokers...and I 'used' to be 'pretty honest'.. WILL have at least HALVED use when asked... so stats are total crap! I AIN'T Dead... nor are YOU!
DON'T WORRY!
If 'C' Has Your name on it... either it WILL get you , or it won't. Predominantly 'Genetic' predisposition'... THEY are 'cautious'... 'Conventional Wisdom', says 'Do Not Publish' or career gone! Even as a 'crap' Student... you got a 'mark' for writing 'Needs Further Studies'...and it will go on!
Smoke Won't Kill You... won't do you good... but SO many other things MUCH worse... 'Holiday Jet' emissions? Anyone?
Personal preference for smoking/ non smoking IS different. So Many Generations accepted... If not preferred...
BUT! Having DIRECTLY INGESTED as much tab smoke as I could... for 45 years, the 'Social Smoking Threat' Seems 'Utter Boll***s!
What Really HAS 'HARMED' ME is the 'Anti Smoking Lobby' 'Aiding and Abetting' Gvt. Tax Extortion! And Loss of Social Life!
Wsih I could sue! 200k ++ that 'could ' have gone into' 'savings Interest', Healthcare' , Insurances.. or life quality !'Social Life' WOW!!!
And I DO MEAN 'HARM'
SO SORRY... NOT ATTACKING ! JUST ANGRY! ... VERY, VERY ANGRY!
(And il a bit 'under the influence'... BUT APPLIES All Too Well!)
My lungs have never recovered from the damage my great and good father's tobacco addiction dished out to his family, apart from the fact that my sister and I paid for our own education, since he inhaled every cent that didn't go on drink.
Thank Heavens this age is less tolerant of some habits.
Gave up ~20 years ago. Never felt better, but have experienced massive weight gain :(:(:(.
Odd thing about pubs & bars - when the smoking ban came in, suddenly you could smell all of the stale beer that'd been soaked into the carpets over the previous years - 'twas not pleasant.
I do remember going to the cinema where one half was smoking, the other half wasn't. Pointless.
Yes what we are told is "true" (or even get to hear about) is always full of biases commercial, political or otherwise and its difficult to go against received consensus.
One paper claiming that smoking may reduce the risk of Covid-19 infection (from the University of Piraeus and University of Utah) was was retracted after two of its authors were found to have ties to the tobacco industry. OK that makes it suspect but it doesn't make it wrong and it should be studied properly. Before you celebrate too much though it was because a typical smokers lungs are so full of crap, the virus couldnt bind so well to ACE2 receptors.
Remind your assailants that without tobacco duty, that nice Mr. Sunak would have to find another £9.6 billion a year in the UK.
I feel your anger. I feel much the same about being lectured at to use a bike not a car or to remove my gas boiler by green zealots who have lots of kids and a dog thus ruining the planet far more effectively than I ever have or will. Note I have no problem with anyone having lots of kids or a dog just the self serving hypocrisy of clobbering my choices while regarding your own as superior.
or people who tell me that only 28mm armies are "real" wargaming
or just people really :d :d :d :d
Quote from: FierceKitty on 08 June 2021, 01:46:04 PM
My lungs have never recovered from the damage my great and good father's tobacco addiction dished out to his family, apart from the fact that my sister and I pai for our own education, since he inhaled every cent that disn't go on drink.
Thank Heavens this age is less tolerant of some habits.
Fk, Sorry to have brought up sorrows. Agree very much on the 'financial' loss... and any other possible 'issues'.! Lung damage.. Well You Should Know. BUT. frankly, I Just Don't believe 'what we have been told' anymore. EVERYTHING from Asthma to Lung Cancer gets 'blamed ' on smoking... unless 'they' can find Asbestos or industrial /workplace contaminants.... Coal, Plaster, Paint, Steel, Condust...Blah... and now, kid asthma can be from 'cleaning' products!
Yet, ''They' Will Say... give up smoking and all fine after a year or two! Yes, in an Adult
.
Grandparents both Heavy smokers... died 70-76... heart...way to go. Mother and Uncle... both non -smokers, but heavily 'exposed' from birth onwards Ma 88,Unlce 86. Ma has had grandma then me! Uncle had wife 'Light' smoker. Health not 'good'... but for ages?
i DO NOT ACCEPT the 'wisdom' from 'medical experts '... Just How Many would have 'survived' to become 'Doctors', if correct? From THAT period, when Smoking was commonplace?
'Published Papers' Become 'The Conventional Wisdom' and woe to 'Controversial.'
Quote from: Raider4 on 08 June 2021, 01:46:35 PM
Gave up ~20 years ago. Never felt better, but have experienced massive weight gain :(:(:(.
Odd thing about pubs & bars - when the smoking ban came in, suddenly you could smell all of the stale beer that'd been soaked into the carpets over the previous years - 'twas not pleasant.
I do remember going to the cinema where one half was smoking, the other half wasn't. Pointless.
Weght gain...well, Hope You 'Found Happy', So no need to frequent...Walk to village WAS my exercise! ;)
Smell, VERY TRUE! Rotting carpet, Drains, old sick ... and Sweaty People Stink'! Even Girls! Horror was,,,'What did I Smell Like?' :o
Cinema... daft... but 'choice! :D
Both Von & I gave up just under (?) thirty years ago.
We got through 100 ciggies a day between us. (Me 40, Von 60)
At the price they are now....Makes the horses seem bloomin' cheap ! :o :o
Cheers - Phil. :)
Mate - take it to TMP.
I think its pretty well proven that smoking is not good for you. But if you want to smoke that is up to you. However I do not want to inhale smoke and my objection to smoking in public places is that I am/was forced to inhale the smoke.
I like a beer, but I do not force those around me to drink it as well.
I used to hate coming home with my hair and clothes stinking of other peoples smoke.
After many years working in pubs and clubs the smoking ban was quite literally a breath of fresh air. I used to hate coming home from work every night and the first thing you had to do was get in the shower and wash the smoke smell off. Especially at 3am when we lived with the in-laws for a short period!
Quote from: DecemDave on 08 June 2021, 03:16:23 PM
Yes what we are told is "true" (or even get to hear about) is always full of biases commercial, political or otherwise and its difficult to go against received consensus.
One paper claiming that smoking may reduce the risk of Covid-19 infection (from the University of Piraeus and University of Utah) was was retracted after two of its authors were found to have ties to the tobacco industry. OK that makes it suspect but it doesn't make it wrong and it should be studied properly. Before you celebrate too much though it was because a typical smokers lungs are so full of crap, the virus couldnt bind so well to ACE2 receptors.
Remind your assailants that without tobacco duty, that nice Mr. Sunak would have to find another £9.6 billion a year in the UK.
I feel your anger. I feel much the same about being lectured at to use a bike not a car or to remove my gas boiler by green zealots who have lots of kids and a dog thus ruining the planet far more effectively than I ever have or will. Note I have no problem with anyone having lots of kids or a dog just the self serving hypocrisy of clobbering my choices while regarding your own as superior.
or people who tell me that only 28mm armies are "real" wargaming
or just people really :d :d :d :d
Said It Before, iin jest, But... if a Virus CAN survive MY Thrroat and Lungs... with 40 Yrs coating of Tar and Nicotine... with occsional Neat Whiskey 'Mouthwash'...'Petty Good Bug'!
Rest... yep, there seems to be an 'ethos', nowadays, in which the 'Informed Chosen Ones' in society, Have the only opinion possible...not a Good Thing.
Going into or working in a pub or smokey workplace was a Choice. The 'right was There and had always been for 30 years of my life,
Then, TAKEN AWAY without any consent by me... just 'the Powers acting on Stats and going by Their view.
I have never been able to resume MY old 'comfort' in a pub snce... and MY smoking went UP!
Hmm. Will make my apologies for 'shouting' and 'venting'. :(
'Got to me' at 'wrong time'.
Will STILL still say that 'Persecution' of Smokers.. through Taxation or Legistration, is VILE! vile Ha! Just 'thinking about it' GETS MY RAG UP...annoys, quite a bit! :( ;)
Smoking is a social disease....
Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 09 June 2021, 05:20:28 AM
Smoking is a social disease....
No. It is a Palliative for Social Disease... but VERY linked. Depends on View. :(
I shall avoid the strongly-invited response here, and merely second the suggestion that this discussion be teleported to TMP.
Like most things nicotine has some good effects. It calms people down and reduces nervous tension. For this reason it was encouraged during both WWI and WWII. The lung cancer side effect wasn't researched until the earlier 50's, and not belived (or suppresed by Imperial Tobacoo et al) for at least 20 years more.
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 03:35:02 AM
Hmm. Will make my apologies for 'shouting' and 'venting'. :(
'Got to me' at 'wrong time'.
Will STILL still say that 'Persecution' of Smokers.. through Taxation or Legistration, is VILE! vile Ha! Just 'thinking about it' GETS MY RAG UP...annoys, quite a bit! :( ;)
You are not being persecuted.
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.
And everything you have complained about boils down to your own choices.
The only reason I'm responding here: I don't wish to see this forum become a home of "victim ranting" in the way that another has been uterly ruined.
I see no reason why your desire to smoke trumps my desire not to be "kippered". The health benefits of not smoking and not suffering passive smoking are well documented.
You are as free to believe the science wrong as you are to believe the world is flat .... but no amount of belief will flatten the world.
The same is true of global warming and the need, among other measures, to curb human use of fossil fuels.
That said, Steve's line ...
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 09 June 2021, 08:23:47 AM
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.
,while true, did remind me of this
"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread." - Anatole France
This is not the place to air such differences, however, so I suggest we agree to disagree and concentrate on little lead men instead.
I say let the poor man unload and rant to his forum buddies if he needs to. Vital for mental health. Gawd knows the last 15 months have been enough for even the calmest, sanest person (me???) to lose it occasionally.
Its a separate thread and hence our choice to read it or not. And "blather, waffle" was presumably set up for just that purpose of providing room for our bizarre musings and opinions.
For me, this thread is significantly less tiresome than the very concept of a thread called "Top Totty" . :-* :-*
I must have a look at this TMP thingy, sounds like fun.
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 09 June 2021, 08:23:47 AM
You are not being persecuted.
You are required to follow laws that apply to every citizen without prejudice.
And everything you have complained about boils down to your own choices.
The only reason I'm responding here: I don't wish to see this forum become a home of "victim ranting" in the way that another has been uterly ruined.
OOh!!! Yes. I know the Dogfights! And PenD IS Friendly.
However..'.Argument Issue' means that I cannot concede/accept and leave the field without a Dogfight...
But... Oh S ! Bl**dy Well Will ! Means a lot
Every citizen pays taxes . Smokers pay VAT on purchase. Fair enough. Choice. BUT 'Health Lobby' has enabled Gov't to Hike 'Duty' to 'Drug Dealer' Levels.. £10 + for a product that could be sold for £3 !!! On an automatic Budget 'Escalator'! Choice, yes... But Smokers CHOOSE.
'Religion' is also a 'choice' I do NOT give a Damn what religion anyone follows... but what sort of 'society' 'segregates', 'excludes' and selectively imposes financial 'penalties'... with possible 'offences' that do not accord with 'Laws' passed without consent'?
We ARE persecuted! We cannot, NOW, persue what was OUR normal LIFE and have been 'segregated','excluded' and 'penalised'.. seen that somewhere?
"without prejudice"... LOL ! Choice...yes... MINE!
OK, maybe I should not have brought up a 'controversial' subject'... MY 'Bad'... so best 'break off' and 'leave it', but I am NOT shot down.
Thanks to some posts... this is a 'Good Place'. :)
With apologies to ALL... have realised that I have NOT been to sleep! :o And little for 2 previous.
Argument points Still Stand, though. Been There for 10 + years! 'Wider Issues' about 'society'... will be there for a LOT Longer. :(
Was half way through editing last post... then could not alter...timed out.
Pub Smoking Ban lost a LOT of regulars. Gained some. BUT... PUB Trade has been decilining since. There were Rises/Falls before... but Pubs were There.. and so were 'regulars'!
Staff always 'Had the choice'... might not have liked it... but seen a LOT of GOOD Bar Staff! Those that did not accept things...'went their own way'.
I only lasted 3 days... but now't to do with smoking!
POINT is... a 'right' was just 'Taken Away'. OK.. a 'right to Clean Air' replaced... BUT that DOES NOT MEAN that MY right should have been TAKEN. I do not remember anyone LOUDLY saying hat this would be an 'Election Pledge'? Would have Voted Against! lol
From being a 'Pub Regular', 'standing at Bar', maybe 5 nights a week... went to 2-3 nights a YEAR. Yet MY consumption of both Tabs and Booze grew massively. No WIN at all for ME... and TOTAL loss of Social Contact.. apart from FB and Forae. Very Sad Case.
So, apologies for Rant... but Smoking ban was WRONG!
Also: Do NOT believe Stats! As an ex Student, I KNOW that they can be 'shifted' to imoly 'Whatever / Whoever' WANTS them to show. Smoker /Drinkers will NOT provide ACCURATE info anyway... so 'Health' stats are utter B****cks. Of course, 'Adjustments' are made... BUT That is FAKE data! As a HEAVY Smoker/Drinker, I should not be here... and many of those who worked in a 'Smokey' environment, wouldn't be able to read this... IF you believe Stats! lol. :(
My mother has been a heavy smoker since 15 years old, probably 40-60 per day. This continued right through pregnancy resulting in me being severely underweight and being taken to intensive care at birth for collapsed lungs. They even got the hospital chaplain to come and do the last rites as they didn't expect me to last the night. I've still got the scar now from the tubing they put into my lungs.
On the pubs, you're right that it was a choice to work in that environment but students need money! And then it became a career so I had to put up with it. But as a pub customer I would avoid going into them (and nightclubs or restaurants) because of the smoky atmosphere. So I suppose it depends where the balance is between smokers who won't go as they can't smoke versus non-smokers who won't go into that environment.
Sounds to me like another rant from another member of an entitled minority.
ONS statistics for 2019 indicate that the percentage of smokers in the UK population over the age of 18 was 14.1%, continuing an existing decline.
(https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthandlifeexpectancies/bulletins/adultsmokinghabitsingreatbritain/2019)
Despite this they continue to demand the right to pollute the air for the other 85.9%. I too worked in pubs before the ban and now relish not smelling of someone else's smoke because I've the effrontery to go for a pint.
I have never been a cigarette smoker but did enjoy a decent cigar 2-3 times a year, i.e. rugby club dinner etc.. I have mates who nip out for 5 minutes for a quick ciggie but it always seemed a bit anti-social to nip out for 40 minutes for a quick half corona, so the cigars got knocked on the head.
We had a bloke in our building - you know, back in the old days when we used to work in an office in town - that would pop out for a quick pull on his pipe twice a day.
I remember being taught to play chess in our pub - my parents ran one when I was a child - by a bloke who puffed away on a pipe as well.
Not something you see much nowadays.
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 12:07:51 AM
Going into or working in a pub or smokey workplace was a Choice. The 'right was There and had always been for 30 years of my life,
Then, TAKEN AWAY without any consent by me... just 'the Powers acting on Stats and going by Their view.
I have never been able to resume MY old 'comfort' in a pub snce... and MY smoking went UP!
As I have said, Smoking has been proven to be a poor health choice .
So you are saying I should have effectively been barred from entering any so called public place if I did not want to inhale another Persons smoke. What about MY CHOICE to enjoy a beer / meal / Film without the smoke?
The 1980's poster used to put it very accurately.
Thank you for not Smoking
Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure,
It contaminates the air and pollutes my hair and clothes.
This all takes place without my consent
I have a pleasure also, I like a Beer now and then
The residue of my pleasurer is urine.
Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and urinated all over your clothes and hair, without your consent
Quote from: Orcs on 09 June 2021, 05:52:58 PM
Would you be annoyed if I stood on a chair and urinated all over your clothes and hair, without your consent
It would just be the standing on the chair thing that would annoy me :) I mean people have to sit on them and you go and stick your big feet all over them.
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 09 June 2021, 01:00:29 PM
Was half way through editing last post... then could not alter...timed out.
Pub Smoking Ban lost a LOT of regulars. Gained some. BUT... PUB Trade has been decilining since. There were Rises/Falls before... but Pubs were There.. and so were 'regulars'!
Staff always 'Had the choice'... might not have liked it... but seen a LOT of GOOD Bar Staff! Those that did not accept things...'went their own way'.
I only lasted 3 days... but now't to do with smoking!
POINT is... a 'right' was just 'Taken Away'. OK.. a 'right to Clean Air' replaced... BUT that DOES NOT MEAN that MY right should have been TAKEN. I do not remember anyone LOUDLY saying hat this would be an 'Election Pledge'? Would have Voted Against! lol
From being a 'Pub Regular', 'standing at Bar', maybe 5 nights a week... went to 2-3 nights a YEAR. Yet MY consumption of both Tabs and Booze grew massively. No WIN at all for ME... and TOTAL loss of Social Contact.. apart from FB and Forae. Very Sad Case.
So, apologies for Rant... but Smoking ban was WRONG!
Also: Do NOT believe Stats! As an ex Student, I KNOW that they can be 'shifted' to imoly 'Whatever / Whoever' WANTS them to show. Smoker /Drinkers will NOT provide ACCURATE info anyway... so 'Health' stats are utter B****cks. Of course, 'Adjustments' are made... BUT That is FAKE data! As a HEAVY Smoker/Drinker, I should not be here... and many of those who worked in a 'Smokey' environment, wouldn't be able to read this... IF you believe Stats! lol. :(
Are you f***ing serious?
Have you seen what smokers lungs like? In person?
Quote from: Norm on 09 June 2021, 06:21:46 PM
It would just be the standing on the chair thing that would annoy me :) I mean people have to sit on them and you go and stick your big feet all over them.
Totally agree, Plus kids in shopping trolleys with thier shoes on really annoys me, Putting the soles of thier shoes that have trod in goodness knows what where the next person hat to put their food.
Quote from: Orcs on 09 June 2021, 09:46:35 PM
Totally agree, Plus kids in shopping trolleys with thier shoes on really annoys me, Putting the soles of thier shoes that have trod in goodness knows what where the next person hat to put their food.
Absolutely right, I mean do kids even know how lucky they are to have shoes! My father had a brother who was lucky enough to have a pair of girls boots on his feet .... All of his friends were bare footed! (True dat!)
And another thing, who is spitting all that gum onto the pavement that sets rock hard, have you ever tried to peel it up a re-use it! No way is that even possible.
And another thing, have you been in a cake shop and someone is in front of you with a 3 year old and they say which one do you want Charlie! And then Charlie gets mesmerised by 100 cakes and just can't choose and he is taking ages and ages and ages and you just want to get served cos your back is raggin' and you are dying for a pee. Whatever happened to parents saying, 'here you are, you're having that one, its the cheapest, they are currents, not flies, well its either that or nothing' . While my back cranks up a notch and my feet go numb, I have a voice in my head that is screaming 'just pick a cake for him will you!
Fred: I rather think that someday I very well might see a heavy smokers lungs in person...or BITS of mine when coughing. :(
Seen pics... but like the pics on tab packets.... I suspect that they are 'selective for dramatic effect'... as they are meant to be.
Orcs:
So you are saying I should have effectively been barred from entering any so called public place if I did not want to inhale another Persons smoke. What about MY CHOICE to enjoy a beer / meal / Film without the smoke?
No. it was choice.
Now, situation reversed by LEGISLATION with penalties which is something VERY different. >:(
MY choice since the Ban has been to keep out, effectively barring myself from a large chunk of what could have been Life... and it's getting shorter... :(
When they set up the Ban, they could have allowed bars to have had smoking and non-smoking rooms... just like Railways had carriages. Not my preferred scenario...I always liked to stand at the bar... but I would have accepted as 'annoying' but 'fair enough'. Would have been a problem for all the Pubs which had knocked down all the divided rooms, (Bar, Snug... etc.), to go for open plan and a single bar... but that was a 'change' that I didn't like, anyway. Where applicabe, some pubs have gone to the cost of providing sheltered outdoor areas! :)
Smoking Rooms are far from ideal. Pre Ban, my ex worklace.. (which was large, 'open' areas, or 'personal 'cubicles)... used to allow smokers to have the occasional tab when they felt the need, whiles't getting on with their job. Then a 'No Smoking AT Work' policy was enforced. (For SOME reason, the Damn Union did not oppose! >:( )
Possibly 'unnofficially' , we could smoke in the rest room on breaks. Result was up to a dozen staff puffing away like mad to get their 'fix' ... you could hardly see!
The consequence of the policy for myself was that, instead of having a smoke 'now and then' I became a 'chain smoker' whenever I had the chance. Consumption, (And Cost!),'doubled'. :(
New premesis witout a smoking room... so you got the sad bunch, huddled 'out the back'... rain, hail or snow... and no chance of even an awning. And this Pre Ban. :(
At least some Pubs, etc. which 'can' often try to give their customers 'some' cover outdoors ... or far fewer smoking customers!
You also got the 'griping' from non-smokers... about others 'going off for a smoke' when 'they' couldn't... (Conveniently forgetting Their 'phone calls', etc.!). SOME may have abused... but I pretty much 'stuck' to breaks... unless the rare 'Nothing needing doing'... but almost got into a fight when a manager refused to accept that I KNEW 'when' I went out on my breaks... but HE 'perceived' it otherwise! >:(
As far as 'Smell' goes... yes, agreed to an extent. Some of my stuff does tend to reek! :( But, one thing that I very much noticed Post Ban, was that I suddenly noticed how much other people in Pubs 'Ponged'... including non-smokers! LOL! :o Previously, couldn't tell. ;D
Anyway... like all too many other thing in modern society... people are being 'Pushed' into 'polarisation'. :(
Hard Core Smokers v Hard Core Antis... most people just want to get along... :)
Wish I hadn't started this up... BUT it may have allowed some MUTUAL gripes to be aired! (Marriage Guidance Councelling? Anyone? LOL). ;)
But none should forget that the current situation has become that in which Smokers ARE being 'hard done by' in many ways. :(
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 10 June 2021, 05:03:46 AM
MY choice since the Ban has been to keep out, effectively barring myself
Everything you need to know about this thread, in half a sentence.
Maybe I should clarrify ME, a bit. ?? (Probably shouldn't!! And, Why Bother? ) ;D
In younger years, a bit TOO quiet. 'Wouldn.t say Boo to a goose'. Just accepted things. :(
Not Military ... though 'so 'minded... (Wouldn't have been any good! lol)... so no 'Milling'.... Would Try to separate Pub fights ...(1980s!)... but sometimes wished that I had not! lol. ;)
As I got older... IF NOT Wiser, (Necessarily?), I started to realise that, sometimes, You Have To 'Punch Back'... or just accept being 'stood on'. 'Warnings Work'... 'IF'You Make them!
But... if something IS important to YOU... and YOU do not Defend it.. it WILL GO. Sometimes YOU cannot DO anything about it... and the 'sensible thing' is to just aquiesce, quietly? :o
Anyone know much about History?... Joking! LOL!! ;D
So, Now, being an agieng, Old B*****d... Can't DO much.... but SO TIRED of Being 'Stood On'... even if 'Others' feel better. THEY also have THEIR place/views...YES! But... if that means 'shoving ME out of mine'... NOT HAPPY!
Recent years ... in So 'many' ways... have been 'fighting retreat'.. in a LOST war. :(
I don't WANT to 'Dogfight' anybody... too old/tired/drunk... BUT ! 8)
Pendraken Forum IS a 'friendly place '... so, maybe a bit of 'clarrification' may help peace. :) :) :)
'Amicalment' LOL! ;)
Quote from: steve_holmes_11 on 10 June 2021, 07:47:01 AM
Everything you need to know about this thread, in half a sentence.
OOH! But see above! XXX
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 10 June 2021, 05:03:46 AM
Fred: I rather think that someday I very well might see a heavy smokers lungs in person...or BITS of mine when coughing. :(
Seen pics... but like the pics on tab packets.... I suspect that they are 'selective for dramatic effect'... as they are meant to be.
This is exactly the reason they banned smoking in public places, so non smokers would not have to ciough their lungs up.
Quote from: Heedless Horseman on 10 June 2021, 05:03:46 AM
Orcs:
No. it was choice.
Now, situation reversed by LEGISLATION with penalties which is something VERY different. >:(
MY choice since the Ban has been to keep out, effectively barring myself from a large chunk of what could have been Life... and it's getting shorter... :(
Yes, the same choice you have now, and you are objecting to being given the same choice non smokers had before the ban.
They had to do it by legislation as those who run the Pubs / resturants etc needed something to back them up when inconsiderate people chose to ignore the ban.
Smoking is the only habit that is forced on those who do not partake. I am sure you would object to people injecting heroin in the pub , and then forcing you to also partake if you wanted to go in.
If you want to smoke, that is your choice and right . But its my choice and right to insist that neither I or my family catch a lungful of it.
Chaps.......This is getting a bit too heated.
Cheers - Phil.