(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/388c48b0daa7ab71884ee551c61a3f45.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/6981798ca6150fe8aaed1f873f03851c.jpg)
Given the really high levels of work I see here thought I'd strike a blow for mediocrity with my poor efforts at painting a number of figures up as 'Kirkes Lambs' for Sedgemoor effort I have been doing. In fairness, 8 based figs look ok from distance and if you squint.
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Hold it at 3' away, turn off the macro lens,be impressed by your amazing work!
DOUBLE apostrophe in title warning ⚠️
Blown up in "huge-o-vision" everyone's painting looks a bit worse for wear...
Only thing I'd suggest is maybe leave a bit more black lining between the main colours? Makes the shading and depth pop a bit more. 10mm is little enough you need to help the eye see what you want ;)
Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 March 2017, 10:49:57 AM
Blown up in "huge-o-vision" everyone's painting looks a bit worse for wear...
Only thing I'd suggest is maybe leave a bit more black lining between the main colours? Makes the shading and depth pop a bit more. 10mm is little enough you need to help the eye see what you want ;)
Good tip, thank you!
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Clearly Urban you have not seem my efforts! Yours at least has a descernable face, cuffs not obscuring the hands, a jabot that looks as it should. mine are more unformed blobs of color more or least suggeting a human figure.
I play solo and always am embarrassed when I see the other fellow's across the table.
Your figure is also obviously recognizable as Kirk's at Sedgemoor, which is the whole point. :)
Not sure I'd agree d_guy but your comments are very kind. I see some of the stuff on here and I think of giving it all up and taking up sewing or something!!!
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Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 March 2017, 10:49:57 AM
Blown up in "huge-o-vision" everyone's painting looks a bit worse for wear...
Only thing I'd suggest is maybe leave a bit more black lining between the main colours? Makes the shading and depth pop a bit more. 10mm is little enough you need to help the eye see what you want ;)
How do you do that 'black lining' please?
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 March 2017, 09:35:14 AM
Hold it at 3' away, turn off the macro lens,be impressed by your amazing work!
DOUBLE apostrophe in title warning ⚠️
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Black undercoat, then instead of painting all the way to the "edge" of each bit, just leave a sliver of the undercoat showing - so where you have hand > cuff > sleeve, you'd do almost all the hand up to not quite the cuff in flesh, but leave a slight but visible sliver of black before the cuff. Then the cuff in green, then a sliver of black left between that and the sleeve in red. It overemphasises the shade between different parts so the mini looks crisper.
Think this blog post gives a good example - http://www.gardenninja.com/2011/10/11/lining-your-minis-to-make-them-pop/ (http://www.gardenninja.com/2011/10/11/lining-your-minis-to-make-them-pop/)
You can paint them in after, but tbh if you undercoat in black and are careful you don't need to :D
"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans." - Max Ehrmann, "Desiderata"
Shrinking the image so the figure is 10mm high, it looks fine to me!
I am one who really enjoys the modeling and painting of figures, and often go way beyond what is needed - i.e. painting rank stripes and division insignia on my 15 MM WWI and WWII figures - but I do stop at panting the regimental numbers on my French Napoleonic figures!!! Seriously, I have armies I spent a year painting after a year of just research, and I am pleased with the outcome. I also have some armies I bought painted from a friend who is truly half blind and the result is the same - both efforts of paint work play exactly the same and give exactly the same amount of fun. I always stand by the rule that says "Do your best, and if you've done that, then be pleased and satisfied with it". No matter who you are there is always going to be some one who paints better than you and some one who paints to a lesser degree.
If you like something you see another painter has done ask them how they achieved it and give it a try. When I switched to acrylics from oil base paints I really struggled. Also at that time I was shading and highlighting each figure as I paint my 54 MM figures. Oh man was that slow. The local guys kept telling me to use washes so I started trying it and yep - messed up more than a few figures. But after many efforts of trial and error I found a process that works for me. So painting is a non-stop growing experience.
A few things I do that I feel help is that I do a complete base coat before using any washes. I change my water for cleaning brushes between colors often, and always after using a metallic because they usually leave minute specs of metallic that get into other non-metallic colors if you don't. If I feel I am not satisfied with what I've painted I will leave it for awhile and usually find when I go back that it doesn't look so bad after all. The skeleton riders in my Halloween army are a perfect example. As I was nearing completion of fhe base coats I felt they were so awful looking I was about t toss them and start over. Fortunately I didn't and they turned out to be the showcase figures of the army.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh235/terry37photos/Painting/IMG_1068_zpsryhjl9uy.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/terry37photos/media/Painting/IMG_1068_zpsryhjl9uy.jpg.html)
So keep at it and be happy with what you've accomplished and don't be afraid to try new ideas.
Terry
Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 March 2017, 04:12:59 PM
Black undercoat, then instead of painting all the way to the "edge" of each bit, just leave a sliver of the undercoat showing - so where you have hand > cuff > sleeve, you'd do almost all the hand up to not quite the cuff in flesh, but leave a slight but visible sliver of black before the cuff. Then the cuff in green, then a sliver of black left between that and the sleeve in red. It overemphasises the shade between different parts so the mini looks crisper.
Think this blog post gives a good example - http://www.gardenninja.com/2011/10/11/lining-your-minis-to-make-them-pop/ (http://www.gardenninja.com/2011/10/11/lining-your-minis-to-make-them-pop/)
You can paint them in after, but tbh if you undercoat in black and are careful you don't need to :D
Toxicpicie, thanks. I did undercoat in black at one pount but with my eyesight then had issues seeing the detail, but I will give it another go.
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Quote from: Ithoriel on 28 March 2017, 04:21:55 PM
"If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter,
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans." - Max Ehrmann, "Desiderata"
Shrinking the image so the figure is 10mm high, it looks fine to me!
Good and sage advice and appreciated. I started this (slightly) tongue-in-cheek post to encourage any of my fellow mediocre painters who, as I sometimes do, see the mighty works of miniature art that are regularly on display in this brilliant forum, and gets disheartened that their own don't look that fine! ;D
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I think your work looks fine personally. :)
I'm also one of those who probably spends too much time painting on each little miniature. One thing I notice is that when the mini's hit the tabletop they all look about the same from a distance. So don't sweat it and just enjoy your completed work. I know as a player who really enjoys the visual aspect of this hobby I appreciate anyone that takes the time to put some paint on their figures.
As for my take on 10mm painting. I've noticed that the smaller the figure the brighter colors really IMHO make it stand out. I think my 10mm stuff looks almost cartoonish up close the way I paint them, but I like the way they look from 3' away.
Rod
Pleasure. If the black is hard to make out, try a light grey/off white drybrush before you put any detail on - it should just pick up the raised bits, make them visible and add a little lighter tone to the high points.
That said, I do agree with D-Guy, DFlynn and the others - don't sweat it :D
A short cut to get a sort of black line effect ... or at least high contrast, is to undercoat black and then gently dry bush white.
The white will give you a platform for a vibrant colour and help you just strike paint onto the highlights, leaving the recesses black / dark.
Now all I need to do is follow my own good advice :-)
Quote from: toxicpixie on 28 March 2017, 05:39:12 PM
Pleasure. If the black is hard to make out, try a light grey/off white drybrush before you put any detail on - it should just pick up the raised bits, make them visible and add a little lighter tone to the high points.
That said, I do agree with D-Guy, DFlynn and the others - don't sweat it :D
Thanks for the good advice. Everyday a school day!
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I use a grey primer and a black wash to bring up the raised areas so I can see them . It also gives a sort of black lining . I am an average painter I think and looking at your photo the paint seems a little thick but again might be the photo being zoomed in . I find a semi opaque brown wash helps an awful lot as well
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 March 2017, 09:35:14 AM
Hold it at 3' away, turn off the macro lens,be impressed by your amazing work!
DOUBLE apostrophe in title warning ⚠️
Youbare quite correct! In my defence on the original post I had put the 2 apostrophes but realised I had posted in an inappropriate forum. I copy and pasted the original post but wrote title on a rush on a train to a funeral in Gloucester.
Mitigation, as a grammar nazi myself I have no defence and plead guilty.
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The whole unit based but still work to do making base look better(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/04ab237ac862f7f9b113f8c9758076ff.jpg)
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Let's try those photos again...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b556226d32eac1beb4a4e86a0e52b612.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/b35f82eb2f8a8a3c6f0a203bd539b2da.jpg)
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Perhaps someone can advise... I am using matt acrylics, and matt varnish... why do I get shiny patches whilst avoiding getting white patches from too thick layers of the latter?
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Here is the final article. I used Citadel Middenland Tufts to try and recreate the sort of sedge grass (? Not a botanist I am afraid) that might be found in a rather boggy area like the Somerset levels in 1685. Used a dark ink to try to stain the painted sand a bit darker. Now to start on some flintlock/matchlock men and grenadiers.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/a7e088044b20a8a62bc34bc7b33872ba.jpg)
Very nice work on that whole base.
I was not trying to be a grammar nut, sorry, just the apostrophes stop replies.
Sorry
Quote from: mad lemmey on 28 March 2017, 07:55:26 PM
Very nice work on that whole base.
I was not trying to be a grammar nut, sorry, just the apostrophes stop replies.
Sorry
No apologies required! I went to Grammar school and am quite anal about it!
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Finished article looks great!
I like a spray varnish tbh and haven't had a problem with shiny puddling - some Matt varnishes are matter than others though...
Another technique I like is similar to Fred's suggestion. A light undercoat (white, sometimes gray, sometimes the base colour if it's not too dark), then block paint and use a wash (magic or "proper" depending on taste) to shade.
So, I now also have the first stand of matchlock men to go with the pikemen. Have adapted my technique and based the next batch in black paint.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/d19d838c77f2ab089e410b33acc5e4af.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/0a62aa4ea372f0f6205bada598d76582.jpg)
Quote from: urbancohort on 28 March 2017, 07:50:52 PM
Here is the final article. I used Citadel Middenland Tufts to try and recreate the sort of sedge grass (? Not a botanist I am afraid) that might be found in a rather boggy area like the Somerset levels in 1685.
Just for the record: sedges are sedges; grasses are grasses; (and rushes are rushes) :-B
They look pretty effective to me :-bd
Botanically yours ;)
Meirion
Looks good to me! How did you find it - think they're "crisper" for less work, or harder, or... ?
Quote from: O Dinas Powys on 14 April 2017, 09:14:48 PM
Just for the record: sedges are sedges; grasses are grasses; (and rushes are rushes) :-B
They look pretty effective to me :-bd
Botanically yours ;)
Meirion
Every day a school day! I learned something new!
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Quote from: toxicpixie on 14 April 2017, 09:26:59 PM
Looks good to me! How did you find it - think they're "crisper" for less work, or harder, or... ?
All I really know is:
1) there is a point when the main colours are on the figure and it is looking truly pants and I want to give up and take up needlework.
2) the figures look better to my eye than the photos show.
3) I am and always have been a looney perfectionist so unless all my figs look like Clib's I won't be happy with them..
Don't know I would describe my efforts as 'crisp' but I think that the high quality of the castings helps. As I said, I have painted the next batch black as per advice given earlier on this forum.
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Ready for starting painting(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170414/c9523ab15fba8f8ab457656ae89fd94c.jpg)
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Quote from: urbancohort on 14 April 2017, 10:05:34 PM
All I really know is:
2) the figures look better to my eye than the photos show.
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And that is what matters most. Digital photography can be unkind, especially as out kit and software tends to over sharpen pictures, white balance is seldom spot on and we end up looking at enlarged versons on our screens of things that are not intended to beviewed in that way.
I think you should be pretty pleased with your results.
I have been thinkingof late that I actually spend too much time painting all the detail on 10's / 12's and that I should take a more care-free approach to painting, to get the benefits of 'mass' and faster production that the scale brings.
I have been thinkingof late that I actually spend too much time painting all the detail on 10's / 12's and that I should take a more care-free approach to painting, to get the benefits of 'mass' and faster production that the scale brings.
[/quote]
I know what you mean! I read somewhere that at 300ms ( I think) all that would truly be distinguishable woukd be the coat. However, it has to be said, one of the things I like about the LofA era and 'lace wars' is the gorgeous uniforms of the period. It is part of the draw.
Of course, another issue accuracy wise is colour. Yes, all the British Army wore red coats but pre-industrial processes, how uniform could that be? Anything from light brown to almost white pink would seem to be arguable?
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What Norm said, in triplicate :)
As I'm in the middle of some big jobs my "personal" stuff is getting very minimal treatment and is currently an experiment in speed over technique ;)
A bad workman blames his tools, but I have noticed my brushes tend to get a bit frayed and that interferes with a crisp, clean paint job. I am using a feldherr paintbrush, anyone recommend a brand or suggest any way of dealing with the fraying please?
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urban,
I use Windsor & Newton Series 7 Sable brushes which are pricey but hold up really well. I rinse them out well then "point" them with my lips (I am too old to worry much about toxins :-) ) then store them with their protective point covers (little tubes). I use them just for the color blocking. Old ratty brushes for everything else (washes, dry brushing, etc)
I clean them occasionally with this stuff which seems to help keep them like new.
Granted, my brushes are probably used only six to ten hours a week.
https://www.amazon.com/General-Pencil-Company-Masters-Preserver/dp/B001TNR7VM/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1492297419&sr=8-4&keywords=The+Masters+Brush+Cleaner
Hope this helps.
It does, many thanks! Happy Easter! G
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I buy lots of cheap brushes and the occasional expensive ones. Both are trashed in less than a month of a regular, painting every day, painting binge.
The main thing that extends the life of my brushes is my other passion ... MMORPGs.
If I'm not painting I'm not ruining brushes!! :)
Started on the grenadier company for a bit of diversion..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170416/997ef9c928b4f0bce2f2d4a07dc1dd47.jpg)
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Detailing still to come.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170416/015d0d226de5d0158b724b9c61375f1f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170416/fa0383543f9425608762687aa2e79fdd.jpg)
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Looking good.
Cheers - Phil
Like, a lot!
Thirded, looking crisp. How you finding the black undercoat - ok to pick up detail still?
Thirded on cheap brushes as well btw. The Works, Rymans etc are very handy :)
These are very nice Grenadiers - you really don't have anything to worry about.
For what its worth, my own thoughts on this :
a. I have used black undercoat for years and really appreciate the effect it
gives. To maximise the impact, I tend to leave more black showing between
colours than you have in the above examples.
You can just about make this out in the two pics below below (the officer
with white sleeves in the first and the closest pikeman in the second).
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20English%20Civil%20War/IMG_2580_zps059c30a1.jpg)
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20English%20Civil%20War/IMG_2571_zpsd0206259.jpg)
b. I have recently experimented with a different effect for figures which
mainly have grey coats (War of the Spanish Succession era). Undercoat in
white and then wash with Army Painter Quickshade 'Dark Tone'. This adds
great definition to the figure, something that can be an issue with black u/c.
It also ensures the colours are brighter and finally, every separate part of the
figure is 'black lined' (or dark grey lined). Not a perfect example below but
you get the idea :
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/IMG_2869_zpsngrsfkzw.jpg)
c. Quality of brushes is very important - I normally just use one brush for
nearly everything until it dies - I then go into a period of brush mourning (!)
until I manage to find an alternative;
d. I mount each figure individually on an old paintpot rather than in groups.
This allows better access;
e. Painting is a very personal exercise. If I am going to complete an army,
I need the completed figures to provide continued inspiration. I therefore
take a bit more time so that they are as good as I can make them. If I didn't
do this and wasn't happy with the results, I might lose that inspiration to continue.
f. Although I am happy with the standard I have reached, I look at some of the
painted figures on this forum and despair of achieving the same result. There are
some really talented people here;
g. As mentioned above, close ups can be very unkind. I am really happy with
the Pike & Shot Regiment above until I look at the close up pics...
Hope this helps.
Phil
I like them also, Urban. The grenadiers of Kirke's. Very recognizable. They will look VERY good on a gametable.
As Glorfindel has said, there are some painters on this board that turn out amazing results. We had a speculation a while back that these folks actually paint 28mm then use a transmogrifier to shrink to 10mm! How they exactly match the Pendraken sculpts is a mystery.
Several have posted about how they do it, however, and it boils down to great patience, much practice and a high personal standard of excellence. It's like playing a musical instrument in many ways. I personally think that a certain amount of innate talent is probably useful, also.
I generally use a thin burnt umber (brushed on) followed with a very thin black wash to help with detail. (Covenanters get medium grey first).
I have used black but can't see details well enough. White, then black is also good but contrary to all conventional wisdom about bright colors - I like dull! Will never win a painting contest but I like the look and that's what this is all really about. I play solo, however, so that may leave me unmotivated to impress. I also pay more talented people to paint at least a third of my figures. :)
I actually know very little about this hobby (pursuit - lifestyle - etc) but long winded - self-absorbed - rambling responses is what I do!
Be happy in your work!
d_guy
Quote from: Techno on 17 April 2017, 06:50:49 AM
Looking good.
Cheers - Phil
Thanks Phil!
Definitely benefit from 'distance'. Taken family out today so sadly won't finish them today... why does the family get in the way of the REALLY important work of painting my small 'lead mountain'.
Graham
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Quote from: mad lemmey on 17 April 2017, 07:11:55 AM
Like, a lot!
Cheers Lemmy.
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Quote from: toxicpixie on 17 April 2017, 07:29:03 AM
Thirded, looking crisp. How you finding the black undercoat - ok to pick up detail still?
Thirded on cheap brushes as well btw. The Works, Rymans etc are very handy :)
Yes, black actually worked well for me. Seemed to show detail as well as white in actual fact! In fairness I painted on black rather than primed but will prime in future.
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Quote from: Glorfindel on 17 April 2017, 12:02:05 PM
These are very nice Grenadiers - you really don't have anything to worry about.
For what its worth, my own thoughts on this :
a. I have used black undercoat for years and really appreciate the effect it
gives. To maximise the impact, I tend to leave more black showing between
colours than you have in the above examples.
You can just about make this out in the two pics below below (the officer
with white sleeves in the first and the closest pikeman
b. I have recently experimented with a different effect for figures which
mainly have grey coats (War of the Spanish Succession era). Undercoat in
white and then wash with Army Painter Quickshade 'Dark Tone'. This adds
great definition to the figure, something that can be an issue with black u/c.
It also ensures the colours are brighter and finally, every separate part of the
figure is 'black lined' (or dark grey lined). Not a perfect example below
c. Quality of brushes is very important - I normally just use one brush for
nearly everything until it dies - I then go into a period of brush mourning (!)
until I manage to find an alternative;
d. I mount each figure individually on an old paintpot rather than in groups.
This allows better access;
e. Painting is a very personal exercise. If I am going to complete an army,
I need the completed figures to provide continued inspiration. I therefore
take a bit more time so that they are as good as I can make them. If I didn't
do this and wasn't happy with the results, I might lose that inspiration to continue.
f. Although I am happy with the standard I have reached, I look at some of the
painted figures on this forum and despair of achieving the same result. There are
some really talented
Thanks Glorfindel.
Looking at the quality of your products in the photos praise from you is praise indeed!
Realised the basing on a stick is a bit of a disadvantage but also, do you paint masses individually based like that? Not sure that I would be able to work on loads of seperate figures but as a relative novice who has only recently discovered the scale and this forum, conversations like this are truly upping my game.
Still haven't resolved the 'fraying brush' issue but will stay at it.
Points e and f seconded!
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Graham
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I think that once a brush has started to fray then its time to get a new one. Dont think there is anything you can do to fix the problem
Quote from: d_Guy on 17 April 2017, 01:14:44 PM
I like them also, Urban. The grenadiers of Kirke's. Very recognizable. They will look VERY good on a gametable.
As Glorfindel has said, there are some painters on this board that turn out amazing results. We had a speculation a while back that these folks actually paint 28mm then use a transmogrifier to shrink to 10mm! How they exactly match the Pendraken sculpts is a mystery.
... it boils down to great patience, much practice and a high personal standard of excellence. It's like playing a musical instrument in many ways. I personally think that a certain amount of innate talent is probably useful, also.
I like dull! Will never win a painting contest but I like the look and that's what this is all really about. I
d_guy
Think you are correct. Those are 28 or 54mm figures painted and shrunk. Or it is magic. Either way, you probably learn to do it at Hogwarts and we mere muggles can only achieve so much.
Thanks for contributing. I will post more updates as and when they are available, as they say. Unfortunately Mrs Urban should have been born in a cave and only likes dim lights of an evening. Until I get an anglepoise lamp it is dayliggt painting only!!!
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I have painted many Pendraken WWII figures. I have painted a good many Medieval/Dark Age figures. I've even painted ACW figures, but I am frankly bottling it painting Napoleonics.
I like my black undercoated WWII figures. The colours go a bit dim and camouflage-y. I like my grunge Dark Age. They're black coated then dry brushed white. There's a gloomy feel to them, with desperate attempts at jollity in the odd patches of red or green. My recent foray into Pacific WWII had me going to white undercoat to get a faded, weary feel for my Marines and Japanese.
Why am I bottling Napoleonics? 'Cos for me Napoleonics are all about the colour. They need to be unrealistrically bright. I've had some Prussians on my table for a few months now. They were undercoated white, then re-undercoated black, then dry brushed white, then undercoated white again and dipped. These poor bleeders have been undercoated so often they're beginning to look like snowmen.
What I ought to do is some test paints. What I do do is vaciliate and end up doing nothing.
Latest. Grenadiers based. Rough looking set of likely lads!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/30d16d547a3bbb2d1d54adc64567eb28.jpg)
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Quote from: fsn on 18 April 2017, 06:53:04 AM
I have painted many Pendraken WWII figures. I have painted a good many Medieval/Dark Age figures. I've even painted ACW figures, but I am frankly bottling it painting Napoleonics.
I like my black undercoated WWII figures. The colours go a bit dim and camouflage-y. I like my grunge Dark Age. They're black coated then dry brushed white. There's a gloomy feel to them, with desperate attempts at jollity in the odd patches of red or green. My recent foray into Pacific WWII had me going to white undercoat to get a faded, weary feel for my Marines and Japanese.
Why am I bottling Napoleonics? 'Cos for me Napoleonics are all about the colour. They need to be unrealistrically bright. I've had some Prussians on my table for a few months now. They were undercoated white, then re-undercoated black, then dry brushed white, then undercoated white again and dipped. These poor bleeders have been undercoated so often they're beginning to look like snowmen.
What I ought to do is some test paints. What I do do is vaciliate and end up doing nothing.
Fsn. That reads like a page from my diary mate! Most of my experience to date has been 1/72nd plastics but my journey has been very similar.
On this army, I have tried a variety of techniques but I think that black undercoat works best.
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They look good UC
They do indeed, very nice!
Glad the black undercoat is working, and you can see the detail :D
Looking good. Nice tufty basing.
Nice base
FSN >>>These poor bleeders have been undercoated so often they're beginning to look like snowmen. "
Oh very good ! Certainly conjures up an image...
urbancohort Thank you for the kind words. Took a long time to get there !
>>>do you paint masses individually based like that? Not sure that I would be able to work on loads of seperate figures
I paint 4-6 figures at a time, each on its own pot. Try to finish approx one
Pendraken pack per week (30 inf or 15 cav). For me, the secret is little and
often (although I'm not sure the other half would agree...) :)
It really helps that battalions in the WSS and SYW era tend to be made up of
a single standard infantry figure (plus command bods). I use the same basic
infantry pose for all my Prussian infantrymen -
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/10mm%20Seven%20Years%20War/IMG_2681_zpsalauypuh.jpg)[/URL][/img]
Really like your finished basing !
Phil
Those look cracking, Phil. :-bd
Cheers - Phil.
I think they all look very nice.
While some members of this forum can paint exceedingly well, far better than I can I am happy with my results. I am painting an Army to game with. If it looks ok at arms length it is ok.
I use cheap brushes and throw them away regularly. I have tried more expensive brushes and they last better but not long enough for the extra cost.
Quote from: Leman on 18 April 2017, 01:42:08 PM
Looking good. Nice tufty basing.
Thanks Leman! I intend using these initially for a Sedgemoor campaign with a view to later Boyne campaign. Both were in boggy areas so did my best to try to recreate that feeling.
Citadel Middenland tufts if any were interested. Variety of sizes. One of the best £10s I've ever spent!
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All the three stands together...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170418/3723e76f7d04808af525d9163a3243e6.jpg)
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Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Looks great!
They look nice
Take care
Andy
:-bd =D> :-bd
+1
Cheers - Phil
@urbancohort
Relax, there will always be people better than you, I think your figures are damn good and I wouldn't say that if it weren't true. Some of the crap I see at TMP, figures and terrain, really makes me want to reach for the keyboard especially when accompanied by the usual BS comments. Honestly, I've seen terrain that would shame a seven year old primary school class. This doesn't apply in your case, your stuff is genuinely good ... HOWEVER ... you're missing the point. 10mm is about numbers, its about vast hordes filling the horizon east to west, the figures aren't meant to look like works of art close up, concentrate on decent painting (tick), good basing (tick) and make a REAL effort to produce nice terrain, its not hard or expensive, its the ensemble effect that makes people catch their breath.
Seconded.
Thirded
Hi. I often think the same thing. I think it's a matter of insistence. I have been painting for 2 years and I usually spend the last ones always better than the previous ones. I always add new details. I also want to say that there comes a time when I want to finish the figures. I understand that I could do them in more detail but my patience has a limit and I can not be 2 hours in painting each figure, so the goal is to achieve a balance between the result and the hours inverted and that over time this relationship will improve, for That, the idea is not to leave it and insists and insist and continue reading as others do. As a reward, apart from the satisfaction of making it better and better, there is the recognition of the people, they have a better opinion of my work than I do; Which relaxes me and makes me not waste time watching TV. They will always ask, who did this? TV does not leave a trace. Perhaps with time in my town I can expose a Napoleonic battle and I stayed there in the museum. (Tarazona-Tudela 1809, Spain).
8) 8)
You've only been painting for two years! FFS I'm speechless.
I know, I ha da :o moment there as well!
Although if it takes two hours per figure, I can see why you get those results :D
Also, fourthed on your earlier comment Cameronian :)
I've been painting for fifty years. I reached a stop point about 15 years ago beyond which my painting has not improved one iota. It is best to accept that I have my talent and Jervis Johnson has his and ne'er the twain shall meet..
So, almost there now. Pike, muskets, grenadiers and command stands all done, just need to do the basing now. Kirke's (The Queen Dowager's) Regiment, ready to deal with the rebellion in the West....(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/01c27a504017882a7cd29c9656435255.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/ee19629a70554c4afced33cc253db0c3.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170419/96570da4f120745ffac5e2f3efc5e56b.jpg)
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Lookin' good!
15 years of progress, hahahaha, I love, how much entertainment ahead. Thanks Cameron
Wonderful, Urban. Like the pikes behind. Apparently this is what Monmouth is looking at through his spy glass and on a blood red field!
The portends are not good. :)
The issue now is decent basing. Done it three different ways so far! Thanks for all the positive feedback guys, btw!
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Quote from: urbancohort on 19 April 2017, 01:44:28 PM
The issue now is decent basing. Done it three different ways so far!
Basing has stalled more of my projects than I'd like to admit...
I would definitely use tufts as an addition to basing rather than the whole base.
Good work fella
8)
Cheers - Phil.
Started on 2nd unit now. Sticking with the Sedgemoor theme this is being painted up as the Earl of Dumbarton's Regiment, grey stockings and breeches, white cuffs and facings. Using Tincey's 'Sedgemoor' appears this regiment was the smallest unit of the Royal Army (although elsewhere suggests same size as Kirke's Regiment?) Also the only unit still completely equipped with matchlock muskets. Using Pendraken pre-made army and the scale I am using, just enough to construct this second unit. Have an order in for flintlock equipped figs which will go to make up guards units in due course.
Have also primed the cavalry, in case I get bored doing foot troops! Bought some curaissiers also which I intend to do up as the Earl of Oxford's Blue Regiment. Can anyone suggest a source for the uniform at all, please?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/cbbccfe20b9670e4343a95adbe82a50e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/a2838f5978a03e6172619ebf63c9bcc5.jpg)
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Urban,
I'm away from my books but do you mean Tincey's "Marlborough's First Victory" or his "Armies of Sedgemoor"?
The second is the reference I am using for uniforms and pretty sure it has a full color plate of a trooper of the Oxford Blues.
Blue coat, red turnbacks, three bar lobster tail pot helm and cuirass IIRC.
Quote from: d_Guy on 23 April 2017, 08:19:16 PM
Urban,
I'm away from my books but do you mean Tincey's "Marlborough's First Victory" or his "Armies of Sedgemoor"?
The second is the reference I am using for uniforms and pretty sure it has a full color plate of a trooper of the Oxford Blues.
Blue coat, red turnbacks, three bar lobster tail pot helm and cuirass IIRC.
D_guy; Marlborough's first victory! Thanks for this, will get a copy of second book.
Graham
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Urban there are two editions - the first is one of Partizan's early efforts, with primitively line drawings
And near mimeograph quality - lots of info however. The second is much more complete with great color
Illustrations and uniform details. Tincey also has a third book that covers the West Country militia.
OK , Urban, I have now actually looked at my copies.
The early one is indeed by Tincey - "Armies of the Sedgemoor Campaign"
The other two mentioned are by Chris Scott - "The Armies & Uniforms of the Monmouth Rebellion" - excellent!
Also "The Militia of the Monmouth Rebellion"
All three are available from Caliver Books (Partizan Press)
Sorry about the confusion.
Cheers - looked up one and the only price I could find was £105 second hand. Definitely not in the price range authorised by Higher authority.... :(
These are brand new from the publisher - just under £19!
https://www.caliverbooks.com/bookview.php?hk3jqov4f8bph1onqktj5d5qb3&id=14947
Have a look around (and search) Caliver books - many military books! Enjoy!
Bit of a Johnny Come Lately to this thread as my security system wouldn't let me download the original pics because the site 'wasn't secure'. Well I've just had a look and then read the whole thread through and found there are some very informative and helpful comments. if you don't mind I'd like to throw in my tuppence worth.
I've been painting figures for over 45 years and to my mind there is nothing wrong with yours. if you want to compare your figures with other peoples then that is fine but you will always find people who 'can paint better' than you, so like someone -Leman I think- said a few pages back, experiment all you like at the beginning then find a style you are happy with and go with it otherwise you will end up in a funny farm where they won't even allow you to have a paintbrush, let alone use one. I have quite a few armies that I painted twenty plus years ago and the only constant is the bases, the styles are all different.
The main thing about painting styles is finding the point where you are happy with what you have done. STOP at that point! If you start adding more and more detail you will find that painting becomes a chore as it takes far too long. A good idea is to block paint your little chaps then give the whole lot a wash with a dark brown, you will be surprised how much detail it shows up that you could have painted but luckily didn't.
My other suggestion would be to try lighter coloured bases and possibly cut down on the tufts a bit as they tend to detract from the figures. I use painted sand and woodglue with patches of static grass and the odd bit of scrub to tart it up a bit. Lighter bases reflect light back onto the figures whereas dark bases absorb the light and make the whole thing look darker than it is.
MickS
To add my comment.
I always think that however fine or otherwise an individual figure looks, it does not matter much in a mass of figures at more than a couple of feet.
I once had a reasonably well painted 15mm celtic warband of 60 figures. On one base I filled a gap with a ACW charging confederate in butternut. As far as I know, nobody ever noticed (or if they did were too polite to say)
;D
Oh no. We all knew about the "Butternut Celt".
Was the talk of the hobby for months.
>>I always think that however fine or otherwise an individual figure looks, it does not matter much in a mass of figures at more than a couple of feet.
How true. I previously spent many (many !) a moon painting up some Great Northern War 6mm figures.
They came out really nicely and I was very proud of the little buggers until my regular opponent declared
that the lighting in our gaming room wasn't up to much and the figures all looked like blobs to him.
Sigh.
Phil
Good advice there, Mr Subedai. Unfortunately, as Mrs Urban yells me, I am cursed with being a looney perfectionist and if it isn't perfect to my eyes I get the 'ump. That has been the main difficulty in my other main modelling endeavour, railways. That said, your advice is eminently sendible and I take your points. I am reasonably pleased with these at present, as the mass impact is tolerably good. No doubt as I practice and improve I shall get annoyed with the imperfections, shown up by the photography somewhat cruelly. The 'untidy' painting lines annoy me most. As I am God's Own History Bore, I like to be able to visualise what the real thing looked and moved and smelled like when I do my figures. And yes, I know that is nonsense as well...
The tufts were an attept by me to convey marshy, 17th Century terrain as the first scenario I wanted to model was Sedgemoor. I must however confess that I have started as a result to get interested in other wars of the era and now have a yen to model forces for the Williamite Wars in Ireland and also troops of Louis XIV, whom I studied with little interest at A levels in the early 80s. Ah the follies of youth! If I had access to Pendraken then, it might have inspired me to work and study harder... anyhow, I bought some flock powder in Orcs Nest last week so I might try other approaches to base scenery soon.
I will continue posting as the project develops but thank you to all. Keep reading and replying, please!
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Quote from: Subedai on 24 April 2017, 09:06:40 PM
The main thing about painting styles is finding the point where you are happy with what you have done. STOP at that point! If you start adding more and more detail you will find that painting becomes a chore as it takes far too long.
I totally agree with this... even though I have trouble STOP'ing sometimes and get bogged down on individual figures. But as a whole I have learned not to try to make every figure perfect because it does become a chore.
On another note, I've also learned from experience that the more time I spend on a figure the more likely it is to suffer a painful and unbelievably quick exit from my games. One positive is that being in the casualty pile passers-by get a chance to look at it. "Wow, this guy looks great why's he sitting on the side? Reinforcements?" "No, that officer is dead... first turn a lucky cannon ball ricocheted off a larger boulder and two trees before killing him."
Quote from: Glorfindel on 25 April 2017, 08:38:04 PM
>>I always think that however fine or otherwise an individual figure looks, it does not matter much in a mass of figures at more than a couple of feet.
How true. I previously spent many (many !) a moon painting up some Great Northern War 6mm figures.
They came out really nicely and I was very proud of the little buggers until my regular opponent declared
that the lighting in our gaming room wasn't up to much and the figures all looked like blobs to him.
Sigh.
Phil
Did you insert them so he could examine them via where the sun don't shine :D
I suffer from imposter syndrome with painting; people pay me for stuff that I am totally paranoid is terrible. I look at others painting and go "Fuuuuuuu.... I can't match that, not even close".
You just have to get to a point where you say "acceptable". Mine is "does it look good at gaming distance, can you tell who/what it is, and does it look about right considering all the possible variations in fabric dyes, eye witness accuracy, unreliable sources and plain old making stuff up". I'm with Gorshkov - "Perfect is the enemy of good enough". Find a technique you're happy with, enjoy the process, get 'em on table.
I must confess my personal stuff is especially composed of short cuts and "arms length, yep it'll do" techniques, as I always feel guilty painting my own things when I have commissions in!
QuoteUnfortunately, as Mrs Urban yells me, I am cursed with being a looney perfectionist and if it isn't perfect to my eyes I get the 'ump. That has been the main difficulty in my other main modelling endeavour, railways. That said, your advice is eminently sendible and I take your points. I am reasonably pleased with these at present, as the mass impact is tolerably good. No doubt as I practice and improve I shall get annoyed with the imperfections, shown up by the photography somewhat cruelly. The 'untidy' painting lines annoy me most. As I am God's Own History Bore, I like to be able to visualise what the real thing looked and moved and smelled like when I do my figures. And yes, I know that is nonsense as well...
Yep totally get that, welcome to the tortured perfectionist club, ignore these other (sane) people and soldier on. Perfection is unobtainable but I say bring it on! :D
You are definitely heading on the right direction, good brushwork!
>>Did you insert them so he could examine them via where the sun don't shine...
(Hi there !). Certainly felt like it at the time but had to take the long view - there
are simply not many other players around here !
It did start me thinking though about the balance between preparation and playing.
90 / 10 ? This explains the popularity of skirmish gaming at the moment, particularly
the fantasy variety where the button counters are going to have a hard time....
The amount of time you spend painting, also makes you realise how important it is to
get positive feedback from fellow travellers.
Cheers,
Phil
TBH I'd love to play large, long wargames of thousands of figures (at least, ones where stuff still happens other than shuffling figures up three inches a turn - big games with speedy rules!), but I get about 2-3 hours of a week night once a week if I'm lucky, and that has to include set up, take down and then I've got to get stuff back and forth. Occasionally we get time for a weekend of larger games, but we're looking at trying to run three or four in a weekend so it's still not huge!
I spend a fair bit of time on prep compared to that, but it squeezes in around work, family and paid painting so...
So yeah... 90mins for Frostgrave or a couple of DBA (or 100pt AdlG if I can get people going!) is about it...
Still a long way to go and many figs to do, but Dumbarton's Regiment are starting to take shape.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170427/98d774a0766e1c92a4c8c28c29be53f1.jpg)
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Nice,
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Latest shots from the painting front of Dumbarton's Regiment, (later became the Royal Scots.) I experimented on the command figures' staves by painting the buff, then washing with sepia ink, after reading something on this forum about better representation of wood. Not sure about the results. Maybe needs to be more yellow. These ones were based with a primer coat of black to see how they turned out.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/865d77037660109aee0787a953930fad.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170430/500b97500bd5c986148b2c76e8b0fb68.jpg)
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Looking good, imo!
Look eminently respectable to me.
MickS
Cheers chaps
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Looks great
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Latest photos. First two of the Earl of Dumbarton's Regiment, (later, The Royal Scots). Have started basing them, and need to finish off unit of grenadiers for them. Second, as I believe the real appeal of 10mm is the impact of massed figures in armies, is the Earl's Regiment and Kirk's Regiment side by side. Used nearly all the foot figures in the LOA allied armies, so having to start to buy more. Once Dumbarton's is finished I will do some horse. Does anyone have a link for uniform details of the Royal Regiment of Dragoons (commanded by John Churchill at Sedgemoor) in 1685? Drawing a blank so far! The painting goes on... much to Mrs Urban's irritation...(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/d9037c1966461ba7a8810bbbd9be9d4f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/5dccd98fd682b267d1a3e17054fd0041.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/9708758290f56ee791088077a1493126.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170501/1e4da2bb63635c5e1d024e143fc5bb34.jpg)
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Like it! Good stuff.
Particularly like the snow terrain, with the many cattle tracks!
:-bd =D> :-bd
I prefer the 'snow' to the orange box ;)
Quote from: fsn on 01 May 2017, 07:31:10 PM
Like it! Good stuff.
Particularly like the snow terrain, with the many cattle tracks!
;D ;D ;D
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Quote from: paulr on 01 May 2017, 07:55:35 PM
:-bd =D> :-bd
I prefer the 'snow' to the orange box ;)
That was an irregular mendip geological feature!!!0 Never heard of Sugar loaf mountain? That was shoebox hill.... ;)
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Quote from: fsn on 01 May 2017, 07:31:10 PM
Like it! Good stuff.
Particularly like the snow terrain, with the many cattle tracks!
I wasn't thinking about cattle tracks...luckily it wasn't on a yellow table.
The mass effect really works, shame your pics are a tad dark.
MickS
Speaking as someone wityh terrible photo skills who uses an iPhone, try propping a couple of sheets of white paper behind and to the sides, then pointing the light down-ish. It helps quite a bit!
I got some useful piccies recently by using a duvet just after it came out the dryer, and propping it up like an impromptu light box ;)
Figures look good btw - very meaty.
Sounds like good advice, toxicpixie, I will give it a try. Unfortunately, have to photograph on a Samsung mobile phone. Personally, I blame Brexit....🤔
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Looks great
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Excellent looking units - must be from Nottingham.
Why Nottingham Mr Leman???
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Cameronian commented "10mm is about numbers, its about vast hordes filling the horizon east to west, the figures aren't meant to look like works of art close up, concentrate on decent painting (tick), good basing (tick) and make a REAL effort to produce nice terrain, its not hard or expensive, its the ensemble effect that makes people catch their breath."
I would add 'good flags'; really decent flags will make a lot of difference as these will be the things that catch peoples' eyes. Good quality flags, either commercially produced or carefully hand painted will really enhance a unit. My preference is for 2 or 3 a unit and very slightly over scale as well, but don't over do it. I used to paint mine by hand but 15mm Napoleonic Bavarians cured me of that and I now prefer to make my own using MS Paint (not the best graphics, but free).
Wow! Funny you should say that! Just completing Dumbarton's Regiment and experimented with doing my own flags. Results shown below. Oversize but rather proud of the Colonel's colour. Bases done with flock powder this time. Will spray varnish the lot over the weekend. Two regiments of the Royal army completed now, resupply of figs came this evening so will finish Earl of Oxford's Regiment the do either Trelawney's or Foot guards.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/b42fbba710bb0797bdbd857e890f6de2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/00a2c802b3d259a5b23646bd2e19ca5f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170511/1faa600c0779707141f86df1a307557c.jpg)
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:-bd =D> :-bd
Bravo :)
I think you should change the thread title!
Definitely change the thread title, those are great
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Thank you guys. Any improvements are owing to the coaching I have received on this thread...
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Quote from: urbancohort on 02 May 2017, 06:34:51 PM
Why Nottingham Mr Leman???
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Nottingham was a major centre of lace making.
Love the new thread title
Watch the apostrophe folks
Quote from: Leman on 12 May 2017, 06:39:55 AM
Nottingham was a major centre of lace making.
Of course! Yes, very clever! ;D
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Start made on Oxford's Blues(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/b325dfe49ecf400bf87378bb9de13994.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/6ae0481502eabdaae8198de064788570.jpg)
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First, I like the name change on the thread - nice. ;D
The Blues also look very good, particularly like that you are using different shades for the horses.
One thing to note, Scott's book mentions that their saddle cloths were dark blue. I do assume, like you, that they were edged in gold.
D_guy: Damn... should've waited for that info. Thought about it and did red as couldn't find out any info on-line! Will repaint now. Luckily 2/3rds not done and this lot not varnished. Anyhow, many thanks.
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Painting SNAFU corrected!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/85a0ca7a29db40e377d29994da81eb5f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/e6b3f8a6e57535491157aeeea4ded787.jpg)
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This army is growing nicely - some fine cavalry.
One suggestion for painting horses. I find it a real pain to paint the
bridle and reins so I don't bother. I use a black undercoat for horses
and just paint the horseflesh, leaving the tail, mane, bridle and reins
black. Can be quite effective but aso pretty easy ! The pic below
shows this to some extent :
(http://i761.photobucket.com/albums/xx254/glorfindel-666/1fce5d3a-3c46-47b3-885e-05418ca35ac2_zpsmt20f4r3.jpg)[/URL][/img]
The only additional painting is a light grey drybrush for the mane and
tail which takes a few seconds. I must adit that most of my cavalry
looks like it has been cloned from this example !
Really enjoying this thread - keep it coming.
Phil
That's a great way of doing the horses! I undercoat black so I'll give that a try on next batch... It's too late for the current lot Glorfindel.
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5 done, painted and varnished and ready for basing when I have done the remaining 10 and 3 command.
And no, it is my daughters watching that Eurovision rubbish in the background, not me!!!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/af108e5126e7743653db0218b85dc4bd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170513/36aac71d960b4048be39c02881fbf86a.jpg)
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They look great. And you have managed to get a lot more light on the figures so the photos show them better too
Terrific work !!
Cheers - Phil. (Dammit.....I keep forgetting to KO the apostrophe in the title ! =))
Cheers guys. Feedback appreciated!
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What Fred said :)
The Earl of Oxford's Blue Regiment of horse, based but needing the bases worked in. Have a soft spot for cavalry, even though they are hard work, and love these Pendraken armoured cavalry figures.
Next will be the unarmoured cavalry unit followed by Mounted Dragoons.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/40c02868b9a85bf57094e9f71c3c8d3d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/88c5a2637473d92cd58087a6571e7f58.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/70ffda3e6ae7b6738d621e1debdf555a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170514/b281dab18dcf50bc847898d7467e3251.jpg)
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:-bd
Cheers - Phil.
Urban, et al.
I just posted over on TMP is info about a FREE google book that I found:
History of the British Standing Army A.D. 1660 – 1700 by Clifford Walton (1894)
It's 120 years out if date but may be useful to what we (and others are doing). It bridges two of the time periods in the period specific categories on this forum so thought I would but it here (plus you are due for a promotion I think :-) )
D_guy, thanks I will take a look. Out of date or out of print? I have some useful reference books dating back to the 1880s!
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The most recent photos of the army to date. Kirke's Regiment; Dumbarton's Regiment and a squadron of Oxford's Regiment of Horse. The painting continues but unusually for me I quite like what I have done here. As always though, I continue to seek to improve un painting or basing.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/756059a2a8b4018db368c9353c90ee67.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/9701196723db34ed2aa54966916912db.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/8b0568e80ab030a69484ca27a725ce70.jpg)
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Looking good, it's a fair sized force too.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 20 May 2017, 01:10:46 PM
Looking good, it's a fair sized force too.
Yes, I actually worked out it is pretty much on a scale of 1:4!!
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Wa-hay! Whaddya know! I made Lieutenant!
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Congratulations
Hurrah, drinks on you ;)
1:4 scale? Crikey... looks mighty impressive :D
Quote from: toxicpixie on 20 May 2017, 01:43:48 PM
Hurrah, drinks on you ;)
1:4 scale? Crikey... looks mighty impressive :D
Wasn't intentional Toxic.. inexperience and lack of familiarity just led to it! However, I do like the massed effect. Can't wait to start on the foot guards! ;D
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Was this Monmouth's secret weapon that he never used?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170520/44dfcbf7185069649e9effc85c431ce4.jpg)
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Where does a 225 ton Moggy lie down? Anywhere it wants!
I would name him "Bishop Trelawny" but that's just me.
And shall Trelawney die?
Then two outraged teenaged daughters
Would know the reason why!
Daughter #1 made the comment "The cat's destroyed Dad's Army..." not sure if Capt Mainwaring knows?
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Is there any information about the colour of gun carriages in the late C17th, please?
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Belated congratulations.
Cheers - Phil
Quote from: urbancohort on 20 May 2017, 08:24:18 PM
Is there any information about the colour of gun carriages in the late C17th, please?
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Hi Urban,
I was hoping that one of our more knowledgeable folks would comment on this. As far as I can tell the carriages were left in natural wood although probably varnished or oiled. Obviously British guns were standardized later on some shade of grey but when that happened I don't know. By at least by 1755 I think but I have know idea how much earlier.
I suspect that a master gunner or ordinance depot Commander could do what ever he wanted with them.
Got the book yesterday! Great source. Seems to suggest they were some form of burnt umber...
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The 'Hat Cavalry' and dragoons progress. Having just got Scott's book I realise it is likely that the dragoons were more like the Pendraken curaissiers but there we go. Lots of work still to do but love these figures.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/01a04a066781108344276bd8ccf256d4.jpg)
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Those look terrific !
Painting competency ?
You've gone way beyond that, Matey !
Cheers - Phil
Those look tip-top
Thanls gents. Got to do nights tonight then quick change on to lates so do my best to get a bit done today!
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Pendraken sword armed 'Hat' cavalry painted as 1st Troop of His Majesty's Regiment of Horseguards at the battle of Sedgemoor. Plus a Dragoon interloper!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170525/c5d980ccdea4ff8c26c8807410f72795.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170525/eea63f3429d2e85b6cf06e86664c04d8.jpg)
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Very nice, again !
Cheers - Phil
Wish the phone camera was better!
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The slow, steady pace is clearly paying off. They look really good.
Just those blasted faces I really can't seem to get.
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Try what's essentially three dots - a sort of chin-nose-forehead "sort of a T or V" shaped one, then a cheek to chin dot/stripe on either side (assuming all is visible!) - give the impression of a face by hitting the higher areas, leaving the rest in the black. At more than "so close to the eye they look like 28's" distance it works really well :)
BTW they're looking pretty darn good!
From you, Toxic, that is praise indeed. Thank you I will give it a try
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That's nice to say, as I suffer from impostor syndrome and always assume my work is a terrible hack job :D
I do something similar to Toxic, i.e. paint face and hands chocolate brown, then use sunny flesh to touch nose, cheeks and chin and, where appropriate, the ears. For the hands I touch the back of the hand and then lightly touch the fingers. Doesn't always work, but often gives the impression of fingers. Can somebody please do something about that damn apostrophe as I've now had to retype two replies on this thread.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20Dux%20Britanniarum/IMG_0816_zpsbd2dbfaa.jpg)
Infuriating, isn't it, the apostrophe?!
I bet rich/dark brown as a base is good for figures with facial hair? You can just dot in the other flesh and leave the brown for the beard!
Quote from: Leman on 26 May 2017, 06:06:15 AM
I do something similar to Toxic, i.e. paint face and hands chocolate brown, then use sunny flesh to touch nose, cheeks and chin and, where appropriate, the ears. For the hands I touch the back of the hand and then lightly touch the fingers. Doesn't always work, but often gives the impression of fingers. Can somebody please do something about that damn apostrophe as I've now had to retype two replies on this thread.
(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g440/dourpuritan/10mm%20Dux%20Britanniarum/IMG_0816_zpsbd2dbfaa.jpg)
Love those Late Romans! What excellent painting.
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Yes, well said - I've seen worse big scale figures :D
(I shan't mention my early attempts when an enthusiastic teenager ;))
I like dem horse guards. :)
The horse guards are very good. Nice colours.
Martin
Now based but bases not done yet. I have chosen to slightly stagger the lines because I believe 'knee to knee' doesn't mean with mechanical precision, especially in the later Stuart era. All the evidence that I have seen suggests that discipline and training was not as thorough as later eras and definitely not as well-drilled as the AWI/Napoleonic era. Additionally, even in these latter periods, horses are not machines but have what passes for brains between their ears. Each will have their own physical capabilities and the riders will have a range of experience and skills. Therefore I have shown the charge line as being a bit ragged deliberately. Interested to hear any views, guys?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/8436a1b2739dc5114e6d0821aee599f4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170526/12950397b1dac48dab8f8fc9ae8177e6.jpg)
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I really like 'em.....The 'ragged line' works really well, to my eyes.
Cheers - Phil (Love the new title of the thread !! ;D ;D ;D)
I'd base mine much like that :) With such individual looking figures it seems a waste to "regulate" them too much!
First. Thanks for getting the apostrophe removed! I will no longer go through the sequence - write reply - post reply - curse - copy reply - reset - remove the apostrophe in title - paste reply - post. I did this every single time!
Like the painting as usually but the staggered basing works pretty well also.
As the them probably wearing pot helmets - I finally decide on the illustration in the book!
Loving the new title and the results of the painting.
Love that title
Progress on the dragoons. Varying states of completion, with the drummer very early stage whilst the hat men are nearing completion at the detailing stage. In fact, it appears that dragoons at Sedgemoor may have worn breast and backplates and helmets, but these came with the LoA allied army pack and the facts are not certain, so I have gone with what I have. Unfortunately, I can't find suitable flags for the unit in the flags Pendraken sells so I will have to paint some. These will be a mounted troop of the Royal Regiment of Dragoons when completed. Question is, do I base them as cavalry or infantry?(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170527/7bda9e578c5dae115cfde98c26ec6e61.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170527/7bf44fa239101e36079154bc546219dc.jpg)
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Looking good
Of note, there is less lace on these than those I have painted to date. I assume that the dragoons were regarded as lower status and don't seem from illustrations to have the decorations and accomplishments of other units?
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Based but the base not finished yet. Decided to follow my practice for cavalry bases, but reasoned that generally dragoons wouldn't be fighting from horseback, and as the Pendraken figs are moulded in 'passive' poses, so I have put them in column, not abreast. I am sure some expert will put me right on this and tell me dragoons didn't ride in column or something, but it has the advantage that although I am using the same no of figs per base, I can see at a glance they are not cavalry.
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(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170527/b7407d11650c85a7647bafca7e657d3e.jpg)
Like the thinking
Look good to me
Take care
Andy
Ditto.
Cheers - Phil.
If you are trying to find English Cavalry standards for Sedgemoor, you might find it useful to
look at the League of Augsburg shop :
http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/shop/products-subcat-6-3.html (http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/shop/products-subcat-6-3.html)
Pages 3 and 4 of the 'Grand Alliance' flags category incude quite a few that might
be helpful.
I know that these flags are normally used with 28mm figures but, if you get in touch
with Barry Hilton using the 'contact me' link on the site, I understand that Barry
Hilton is happy to resize them.
Cheers,
Phil
Good idea.
Martin
Fantastic idea Glorfindel and thanks. I will give it a go.
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And all change...
Had a long, hard think and decided to make a small alteration to how I am constructing the army. It seems I have achieved a 1:4 ratio (I like big armies). When I started this I knew very little about what I was modelling and about wargames. It is obvious now that pikes and muskets were brigaded together in one body, not separated out as I had modelled them.
I decided to make my regiments into Company sized units. Research shows each company had 20:40 pikes to muskets, which works out as 5 pike to 10 muskets. I include command figures which reduces the demand on the 'private sentinal' figures. Kirkes Regiment and Dumbartons had 5 companies apiece at Sedgemoor; 4 'hat' companies and 1 grenadier company. The grenadier company should be slightly smaller, having a strength of 50, not 60, but I'll live with that inaccuracy.
So here are two of The Queen Dowager's Regiment 'hat' companies and the grenadier company as a starter for ten. In due course I will decorate the new bases, and it is a pity to have to waste the bases but I like the result I am seeing here.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/765ab1ce56787b0e147d111614cf3212.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170529/1d54fc4131d6041789a1e42e25955e04.jpg)
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Looks good
Take care
Andy
I have difficulty adjusting to pikemen who aren't in deep block. Not speaking in censure of your models, you understand.
Urban,
Rebasing is not an uncommon occurance. I've read posts from many here and elsewhere about the travails of rebasing. I've done it five times (three since switching to 10mm) in the last five years.
Have you selected a rules system? Often they will give a guide to basing. Working at the company level is a woundefully detailed way to go but consider that you may often wish to detach some of the musketeers leaving the pikes behind or collect the pikes in a block (although that was starting to go away in our time period). One of the neat things about having large companies is the capability to take up all sorts off different formations at the battalion level or to send off small detachments to do special things.
I bring this up only because you may find single bases ffor a company will limit what you can do at the level where you may want to game. If you have an opportunity take a look at "Donnybrook" (League of Augsburg) or "Pikeman's Lament" (Osprey) since they work at your level of detail (although figures are generally single based).
That said your basing will generally work for "Baroque" (some may disagree), you would just be playing in a scale where two or three battalions (say eighteen companies - each a unit) would stretch the limits of the rules. Obviously, there are a few other details to work out as well. :)
I really like what you are doing, both the look of your results and your clear interest and enthusiasm. I made a large number of mistakes (and still do) but the biggest was not having a clear idea of how the games were going to work before I launched into basing the figures. I mean none of this a criticism of your work, just sharing some of MY mistakes and a bit of what I've learned.
BTW - I like the Dragoon basing because it does have great flexibility!
Hi guys;
The beauty of this fantastic forum is being able to access the collective wisdom of more experienced gamers. As I have said before, for 34 years I havve claimed to be interested in wargames, bought loads of rulesets, quite a range of figures for different eras and locations as well as scale, but other than a very few naval wargames and a couple of rather unsatisfactory solo efforts, I've never ACTUALLY played a wargame. I decided on 10mm and late Stuart a few years ago (not to mention a modern scenario currently in abeyance). The reason is the variety of types of troops - grenadiers, dragoons, etc -and uses of weapons - pikes, matchlocks, flintlocks etc - plus the general appearance of the soldiery wirh uniforms, flags and the rest. I like companies because as a discreet unit they will have their own Captain plus flag, save the grenadiers of course, and to my mind that looks impressive. It also appears to my slightly Aspergic devotion to history, I can 'recreate the very casques that did afright the air' with each individual unit represented.
Which is why feedback and advice such as the above is so welcome. Due to my inexperience I hadn't considered these points. This gets me wondering whether it would be better for each company to be made up of 2 blocks, 5 pike, 10 muskets incl command figs? I did consider basing the grenadiers as groups of 5 figs originally, but took the view I'd be better off having them as a block . Again, I shall rethink this.
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Looks 😎
Very nice, again.
Cheers - Phil.
I'd second the suggestion of The Pikeman's Lament. Great fun to play and simple to learn. They are written for use with single-based figures, but I know people who play successfully with stands, you just need to keep track of casualties in some way. You could use a company stand as a unit and remove it after 12 casualties, or use 3 stands and remove one for every 4 hits, or 6 stands and remove one for every 2 hits, or be really megalomaniac about it and use 12 stands to one Pikeman's Lament unit! :d :d
I also like (but haven't used yet) the idea in PL for tracking your officer's progression. You can run a mini-campaign as you trace your hero's career as a company commander until he achieves promotion :D...or dies. :'(
Well, what with elections and deluded idiots running around Southwark I haven't had a lot of time to be updating, or indeed actually building the army. Day off at last today so decided to act on a suggestion. After long and careful thought we're into basing No4.
I still like the idea of companies, but started by seperating off the pike. I can now deploy in front, behind the parent company or completely seperately. Likewise most depictions seem to show grenadiers seperating into several units, (platoons?) and positioned in odd places in the battle line. Accordingly I reduced strength to 12, a nearer approximation of the right number, 50, at Sedgemoor using the 1:4 ratio. I then made 3 stands of 4 units. Again, this gives me the freedom to deploy all together or seperately.
I have made the musketeer stands of 10 "private sentinels" incl a sergeant/ NCO, and a seperate command section of ensign, drummer and officer. (These officers do not answer to the 1:4 ratio of course, I just like the look of them). I have also mixed in 6 flintlock figures amongst the matchlocks as in the line regiments there were 24 flintlock equipped soldiers mixed in amongst the rest. When I get to do the guards they are all flintlock equipped.
I have noticed my painting skills improving, thanks to the help and advice of you little lot.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170611/0284999e0e84c17bb4060d471807a47a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170611/addf3bf72f5c84ae2cee3fd852421536.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170611/a705bf7e51800a2da1b4e7fba539affd.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170611/d791d18e5e7123fd1a3055442cd81d4d.jpg)
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Looks fantastic old app chap!
Tasty! I like that basing idea, I think you should stop now :D
Quote from: toxicpixie on 11 June 2017, 07:26:45 PM
Tasty! I like that basing idea, I think you should stop now :D
I hope to! I'm not doing this for fun... Well, I am, but I'm sure you know what I mean! ;)
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Excellent looking, really like the basing design. This allows a great deal of flexibility.
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Thanks gents. I will finish Kirkes (I have to do 5 more pikes) then rebase Dumbartons.
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Look really good !!
Cheers - Phil.
Quote from: urbancohort on 11 June 2017, 07:58:20 PM
I hope to! I'm not doing this for fun... Well, I am, but I'm sure you know what I mean! ;)
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We'll hold you to that :D
Seriously though, very nice.
Latest shots. Started basing the regiments. 5 companies, four 'hat' and one grenadier. All pikes now done and deployable. By accident, this unit, Kirkes Regiment, actually represents a quarter of the number really at Sedgemoor in 1685. I have read the debates and comments re basing and understand them, but to me, this number of painted troops all deployed together looks good. Particularly when the bases will all be done. I am looking forwards to finally seeing an army gathered together although I suspect they will have a rather large frontage!!!
One of the companies has two flags: this is the colonel with the first company.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170613/ccc1ef0dc7b86a96682a1aeccd27608f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170613/85eae40a1702017e3a6c4511774d8dd8.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170613/35711de939e178bbac98a484957c41fc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170613/c049b5bbecd9f8eeadedfe55fb966030.jpg)
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Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Yep, they look great, especially the one with the basing done and better lighting.
:-bd =D> :-bd
Quotebut to me, this number of painted troops all deployed together looks good.
All the reason you need :)
Very nice, indeed !
Cheers - Phil.
Stormy day as they formed up! Formidable work! 8)
Cheers guys. It is the difficulties of taking photos on a smart phone. Move far enough away to see all the units and the flash doesn't work so well!
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Hi Urban,
Some really knowledgeable people on this form have told me that you can get pretty good results with smartphones. I have an iPhone and on occasion will get a really good shot but often can't reproduce the shot. I did buy a cheap tripod and that helps a bit (although too lazy to set it up most of the time).
There are camera also apps that will add more fine control (but you are still left with one set of optics) but not enough to get significantly better results. Lots of light seems the single most important thing.
When of figure it out - tell me how you did it! :)
Here is the original discussion thread which contains much good information:
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,14164.0.html
Number 1 tip - don't use flash. You will either flood the figures with light, or non will reach them.
You are much better off getting lots of real light in. A piece of white card or paper in front of the figures will help a lot with getting light on to the front of them.
I find I get great results with my iPhone 6S - much better than earlier models. All smart phones are not equal, when it comes to cameras - some are much better than others. Try taking some close up photos outside in good light - can be of anything - the bricks in an old wall are good, as they tend to have lots of detail. Take the photo, then zoom in on it to see if the photo is crisp, this will give you a good idea if your camera has any chance of taking decent photos of small things.
Latest update. Progress has been slow recently. Seventeen hours at a burnt out block of flats and two twelve hour night shifts has cramped my style a little in the last week, I am afraid! Now the second regiment is done, so here is the whole of my army such as it is. Dumbartons, four 'hat' companies and 1 grenadier company, Kirkes same, plus cavalry and dragoons. Basing far from complete. Next I will probably look at Trelawney's Regiment, or maybe the artillery. Looking forwards to the Guards Regiments - no matchlocks!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/acd0e968b483e7b71a867188c6bb6d18.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/ba4344cb1c80aa0e1c330a5e836d95a1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/4e261073dd13dd7c1471634b19611bb5.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170620/bb0f79fb4c7d482e456c89aafc9e3da9.jpg)
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Appreciate the photos ain't brilliant but wanted to try to capture the look of the army!
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Splendid work - the large pike blocks look really effective.
Superb work. On both the figures and the real world job.
Cheers Toxic but its the fire brigade boys and girls who are the heroes there!
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Got 'The Pikeman's Lament' yesterday. I can see possibilities! Oh well, rebase no 3. Will make officers a discrete unit on a round base which I think should do it and make game playable with company figs... just about!
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You could try using 1 base = 1 figure, assuming 10mm figures.
IanS
Thinking of keeping bulk as they are for mass wargames but mught do a few individuals.
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I think Ian is meaning use one full base of 10mm figure to count as 1 28mm figure. Would give a good look to the unit, but you might need a lot of troops.
I've played Dragon Rampant with one 40x20mm base of 10mm figures representing two 28mm figures - gave a good look, didn't need huge amounts of figures for a unit. The only downside was it did make the units look bigger than they are in the rules, and look like they had proper flanks, which don't count in the rules as they are skirmish.
Aha! That makes sense!
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First view of the artillery.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170623/d19d3589cfd3690b323f112fc471509f.jpg)
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A very interesting top down view - those guns are shaping up well.
Sent by my sweaty fat fingers on my ageing MacBook.
Yes. Note to self: it really isn't a good move to update the forum AFTER sharing a bottle of wine with the better half.
In a lighter vein, here are some 'extras' I made for Dumbartons or Kirkes and repainted as Trelawney's ( "The Queen Consort's") regiment.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170624/b6d631778c016a555b9c5d4e9c895e6e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170624/feac4b5f2fc2f12de7897f43c2444b6f.jpg)
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Looking good.
Cheers - Phil.
2nded!
=D> =D> =D> :-bd
Cracking, that yellow has popped nicely!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 25 June 2017, 08:29:44 AM
Cracking, that yellow has popped nicely!
Oh, come on! I've just had my breakfast. :-& :-& :-&
:D
Hehehe, couple be worse, could have been a disturbingly named Games Worshop yellow!
They should change the name to Games Worksop, seeing as that's in Nottinghamshire.
Given the holy status of their IP, maybe Games Worship?
;D ;D ;D
Hi guys: advice if you would, please? What is the implement this fellow from the LOA artillery crew is holding, please? What is it made from? Metal, wood, brass? Need to know before I paint it! Thanks(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170626/ffbfbfc1bebf4fd1e68520b25f2b45aa.jpg)
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It's a linstock - wooden pole with lit but on the end for lighting the cannon off :)
There's me thinking these were the first sculpts from the Pendraken Glastonbury range.
(http://www.britishempire.co.uk/images2/ra1742.jpg)(http://www.kismeta.com/diGrasse/images/BadCannon.jpg)
This kind of thing.
Thanks all!
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First artillery piece now painted and starting basing.
Best info I have is that they wore red but no info on cuffs etc.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/8f4ef9937f3f7432bfe442b5eec69f8a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170627/93dd3cae344b5b93e4fd3e9d538fdffd.jpg)
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They wore red until the Boyne campaign when they changed to orange with blue legs! ;)
Looking good except you just need to finish off the gun wheels. The wheels would have metal rims not wood (bare wooden rims would soon smash to pieces). I think the metal studs/clasps that you have painted are there to hold the metal rims in place (see following link for examples).
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+civil+war+culverin+gun+image&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=uqLWeupfmwccgM%253A%253BoMOzzkE1ALVTjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.alamy.com%25252Fstock-photo-english-civil-war-cannon-and-gunner-17th-century-historical-re-enactment-67364830.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=uqLWeupfmwccgM%253A%252CoMOzzkE1ALVTjM%252C_&usg=__AJFrHuJzx4Eiqs9FnwgP0v2VMcM%3D&biw=1430&bih=743&ved=0ahUKEwjnodX2ht_UAhUPYlAKHcByASAQyjcIPw&ei=eNlSWeeFGI_EwQLA5YWAAg#imgrc=kroN6ZI9bKVgyM: (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=english+civil+war+culverin+gun+image&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=uqLWeupfmwccgM%253A%253BoMOzzkE1ALVTjM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.alamy.com%25252Fstock-photo-english-civil-war-cannon-and-gunner-17th-century-historical-re-enactment-67364830.html&source=iu&pf=m&fir=uqLWeupfmwccgM%253A%252CoMOzzkE1ALVTjM%252C_&usg=__AJFrHuJzx4Eiqs9FnwgP0v2VMcM%3D&biw=1430&bih=743&ved=0ahUKEwjnodX2ht_UAhUPYlAKHcByASAQyjcIPw&ei=eNlSWeeFGI_EwQLA5YWAAg#imgrc=kroN6ZI9bKVgyM:)
Many thanks, I will correct that!
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Despite that I think that's a great looking gun and crerw.
Same here.
Cheers - Phil.
It's all looking great :-bd
For the cannon: I don't know what other people do, but would it be worth raising the level of the base below the carriage with something (eg putty or another base) so that the base of the wheels are on a level with the feet of the crew, rather than having it 'sunk into the terrain'?
Cheers,
Meirion
I only thought about that when someone posted a piccie recently showing they'd done it - looked much nicer. Now I'm slightly narked I never thought of it before because whenever I look at my guns it's now noticeable they're a slice shorter than the figures!
Likewise, but fortunately had only based up two guns at that point (for my 10mm FPW), so now using slivers of balsa to bring guns up to same height. At last the wheels on the Krupps reach the shoulders of the gunners.
I always add the guns after basing!
Good idea. I have only done this one to date but have two more so I will probably rebase this one and do that to the one I have already done. Great advice, thank you chaps! UC
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Okay, so not done much since ages ago. Today have gone down to my birthplace of NE Somerset on my 1 human powered two wheeled metal steed, like some latter day Horse Grenadier. I took the chance to visit Norton St Phillip (phillipsnorton in 1685). I had a good look around, adsorping the atmosphere.
Unlike in 1685 it was boiling hot, and I approached along the main Bath road. This wasn't apparently quite the route the armies took ( more of which anon!)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/9ca7bab8a1f12109e18c6d468f0c94cb.jpg)
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The photo shows the modern road East towards the village at roughly the point the route diverged from its modern course in 1685.
As one goes down, Chivers Lane (aka Bloody Lane) lies to the left. This is where the fight on the day took place
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/e0a4d30aa8ca536ad54dec8ae4bd6bf2.jpg)
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This seems to have been where the fighting took place. There was a 'gentleman's house' on the right and if I read correctly, this lane led up to ploughed fields. The houss either side of the road did not exist. To the right of this point was the barricade erected by the rebels. The Royalist didn't scout very well, and were ordered to advance until they were fired at. The grenadiers, probably from Kirkes Regt, did so and got embroiled in a fire fight with the rebels from which they were unable to extricate themselves. The rebels tried to outflank them and lined the hedges along the lane both sides of this road. The firefight was fierce and Royalist reinforcements were called. A unit of Royal infantry apparently cut their way through the hedges and then fought their way clear. I envisage they effected their escape on the left side of the road, down from the houses, but I could be wrong. The Royalists cavalry and horse grenadiers assisted their foot colleagues, and rebel artillery which I think was also based to the right beyond the 'gentleman's house' created further problems.
The road from Bath apparently ran South of its current course now, and Chivers Lane/ North St formed a crossroads which now is only a T junction. Here the rebels had placed a wagon as an obstacle as part of the defences of the village.
The photos below show the views up the North St towards the rebel held village. This is approximately where the rebels placed the wagon.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/2975a0c1266fdb4f60c9fe872a7dab49.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/9ff3bca76fd8b7f2299e00851c817a83.jpg)
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Photo 1. This is much closer to the village centre, with the George in view. This was Monmouth's HQ and someone took a potshot at him here. When I came here in 1983, as part of a school trip, a piece of wood was preserved with a bullet in it which was claimed to have been the shot. Alas, it was lost in the renovations years ago. Most of the houses probably are newer, but at least three were there on the day, having medieval origins, (Vanity cottage and others).
Photo 2 is looking back from the position of the barricade. I suspect this was all fields and the rebel cannons positioned to the left of where the houses are now.
This was a cross roads in 1685, where the over confident Grafton brought his grenadiers to assault the position.
The wet, dispirited rebels, who were actually withdrawing back to Frome, put up a good fight though. The grenadiers were overconfident and got bogged down in the steep field hedges for three hours.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/bf6536b276c85056110202055c73020c.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/0d0ee3133a55ade1a332d98964a85ee1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/3e2c8f6fdd4f0a1713a4f75d918b758b.jpg)
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Photo 1 shows where the Bath Road used to run. There is a public footpath to the side of two old garages now, so this is a view of where the road ran West.
Photo 2 is Chivers Lane running North. The local in it had looked askance at my photographing the road as he unloaded but when I explained I wasn't casing the properties but researching the battle told me, 'We remember it well' and told me the lane was known locally as 'bloody lane'.
Photo 3 is the lane south from The High St. This gives an impression of how the area must have looked at the time, I think. Odd to think of this tranquil backwater being the scene of war and death.
Monmouth launched an attempt to outflank the Royalist forces. The modern roads probably accord with the locations.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/2adf845fb747f0506ce23a7f2e9a9833.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/20973d62d79f6b4fa87e22342a663c7d.jpg)
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Accounts state it was hot work, with the Rebel artillery opening up on the Royals. The Horse Grenadiers had to deploy to effect a rescue.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/50a1e72fabf2ba748e708667fe149f03.jpg)
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Photo looking back East towards Bath at the entry to Chivers Lane. This, I think, is where the rebel reinforcements positioned themselves.
NSP is a small place and if you are into the campaign, well worth a visit.
Several wargaming scenarios suggest theselves to me, including ones suitable for 'The Pikeman's Lament'.
Hopefully sometime this week I will get to Westonzoyland and be able to post pictures from the battlesite.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/d1ef88498d161c74336f352686cdb7c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/2a5b99d5acbc7f4d585488a2df6ed4d9.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/f9819d539e7000abccd4eb04d357636e.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/1022dad76b326ce91374c89b459368d1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/bad1cdb2b1fb57244a12fc074e7a319d.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/2e93af9fc3bb8461532da70f3a94bd73.jpg)
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Photos showing various scenes around the historic George Inn. I have stayed here numerous times, including ince in a room with a table in it claimed to be the one at which Monmouth dined. A lovely location, but unless it has changed, which it may have, food was much better in Fleur De Lys across the road. Twelve local men from the village were hanged in the Bloody Assizes for their part in the 'Duking Days'. The place isn't that big 332 years later. That must have been a lot to lose in one hit.
The last photo shows the walls of a house which is probably contemporary. I am sure places like that would be loopholed and used defensively by Monmouth's troops.
What a top day.
Hope your noble steed was well fed and watered?
Really excellent pics, Urban. Thanks so much for posting.
Quote from: mad lemmey on 17 July 2017, 10:21:36 PMWhat a top day.
Hope your noble steed was well fed and watered?
Indeed, the George provided me with a nice cold pint of Thatchers Gold. However, having to then cycle another 6 miles down country lanes, it turned out to be not such a great decision!
What struck me was the steepness of the hillside 'Bloody Lane' runs down, and the narrowness of the roads. Imagine unmetalled roads in torrential rain already churned up by the passsage of Monmouth's army and hemmed in by thick hedges. Grafton's grenadiers got stuck there, metaphorically and probably physically, and some cut their way through the hedges and rebel soldiers to escape through a field. They say 50 rebel musketeers were positioned at the crossroads. As I doubt it was wider then all I can say is they must have been tightly packed!
Despite the fierceness of the engagement few seem to have been killed; various figures of 20-50 on each side seem to be given.
The area would benefit from some nice interpretive panels, as have been done at Lansdown a few miles away. Unfortunately the area of the hardest fighting probably lay between here and the modern road, and has been built on in very recent years (since 1985!) I really wish someone in the local authority took more interest in our heritage.
Like the rebel army I headed off to Frome after leaving 'Phillipsnorton'.
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Super piccies ! :)
Cheers - Phil
Interesting stuff, and my son works for a logistics company which moves Thatchers cider all over the place.
Quote from: Leman on 18 July 2017, 10:52:17 AM
Interesting stuff, and my son works for a logistics company which moves Thatchers cider all over the place.
What a great job!!!! I am usually a Shepherd Neame beer man when I drink, but in honour of the area....
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Lovely stuff. Keep meaning to visit the battlefield as it's only about an hour from me. Not quite related, but if you do go to Westonzoyland you should really visit the pumping station (http://www.wzlet.org/) too!
Quote from: Gazza on 18 July 2017, 08:27:56 PMLovely stuff. Keep meaning to visit the battlefield as it's only about an hour from me. Not quite related, but if you do go to Westonzoyland you should really visit the pumping station (http://www.wzlet.org/) too!
Cheers Gazza, I'll take a look if I can.
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Unfortunately, I didn't get to Westonzoyland but have resparked my enthusiasm, so watch this space for more updates on my Sedgemoor project. Also looking at a small skirmish scenario based around the battle at Phillipsnorton, (Norton St Phillip). An old school friend who is an archaeologist and lives in the area took me round last night and explained where he thinks things occurred, recommending some reading to me.
I think there is a scenario suitable for Pikeman's Lament. Forty five grenadiers were ordered to recce the rebel defences and keep going until they came under fire. They are recorded as doing so in close order. The lane was heavily hedged in and they obviously didn't scout well or were over confident. At the barrier and probably along the still-extant stone wall of an orchard that ran south along Chevers (Bloody) Lane were a rearguard of 50 rebel muskets. The road drops steeply to the South. It was bucketing down with rain which presumably affected visibility, but walking the course of the old road a slight eminence probably created an awful lot of dead ground as they approached. When we walked there yesterday my friend explained how the rebels behind the wall effectively could have used it as a firestep. He also showed me why he thinks the current land is not the original one. To its side is an unregarded 'ditch' maybe four feet lower than the road. He contended that THAT was the original lane and because it gets flooded and nasty the new lane was cut when they started to metal the roads.
For the scenario I would envisage starting with grenadiers of Kirke's Regiment and the over-confident Duke of Grafton. The rebels should be poor-average but well defended. The objective for the grenadiers should be to remove the obstacle, or withdraw in good order to take the news back to the army and Feversham. The rebels aim should be to pin down the Royalist forces and prevent them doing either. The Rebels should have reinforcements nearer in larger numbers but poorer quality than the Royalists. The Royalists can call on two troops of Horse Grenadiers from the Household cavalry, about sixty troops. The Royalists should suffer penalties for movement in the poor conditions. I think possibly also a set number of turns is required.
Anyone with more experience than I have at wargaming got any ideas that umprove in thus concept? I am not proud and am willing to learn!
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Enthused by my visit to the scene of one of the battles I was inspired to start on my armies again. I decided rather than do more Royalist troops I would start on some Rebel soldiers.
Pendraken 10mm scythemen are the basis. In fact, although the popular image of the rebellion is a load of muck-spattered, Satan-worshipping, corduroy-clad yokels armed with scythes and pitchforks, in fact 'sithmen' were a feared part of the rebel army. They were very much the counterpart of the grenadiers, a small but elite unit.
As the rebels were generally artisans and tradesmen, and mostly non-conformist, I have chosen sober browns and buffs. Blue was a colour associated with gentlemens' servants, and black was EXTREMELY expensive, so I have avoided those colours. One is obviously a bit of a dandy and I have allowed him some red.
This is the initial block painting part and I will be working further on these over the weekend.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170721/3a48c34aa873b5c6b12ad2cfb6cc0863.jpg)
Fear nought but God!
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Interesting scenario ideas, I assume removing the obstacle would be a big win while 'legging it' would be a minor win :)
How good is Pikeman's Lament at pinning units down :-\ A lot of rules struggle with stopping players withdrawing
Paulr: thanks for replying. Yes, that was my idea of an outcome for a scenario. The Royalist player wins by getting away or best of all by removing the barricade. The rebel player, (if not done automatically) wins large by destroying the grenadier and horse grenadier units but succeeds if the Royalists are kept pinned down in the lane.
A draw would be extracting the force with 50% casualties I would have thought, (nearly the real outcome of the incident!)
I haven't yet played with the 'Pikeman's Lament' rules so I am not sure how good they are for 'pinning down. When I visited the location a few days ago it struck me how actually, the rebels could almost have thrown rocks at Grafton's men and kept them there.
perhaps other have played the rules and can advise us?
Looks good and sounds a lot of fun!
Latest views of the Scythemen. Despite appearance from my poor photography, one is not dressed in Silver!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/f01e05cef0e8cfda105a9e1c969337bc.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/42c7ffde9072b12c612bce7c44b57c16.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170722/9f0bf2e6c1dcd93d2ae7dfd21ed48ba8.jpg)
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Look cool!
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Look forward to the progress ! :)
Cheers - Phil
The painting is great!
But ... well ... err ... am I the only one looking at top row, second from the right and thinking he should have a fishing pole not a scythe?
Just me then :)
Lovely stuff none the less.
Quote from: Ithoriel on 23 July 2017, 09:24:39 AM
The painting is great!
But ... well ... err ... am I the only one looking at top row, second from the right and thinking he should have a fishing pole not a scythe?
Just me then :)
Lovely stuff none the less.
Oh my word!!! That is the funniest thing I have ever read on here and what is worse is you are RIGHT!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Here is my collection of Monmouth's West Country Scythe garden gnomes guarding an unfinished (admittedly Royalist) cannon.
The scythemen are deliberately staggered as a visual indication that they were not as disciplined or highly trained as their opponents, but I am using the same base size as my grenadiers are on, as my research suggests they were the rebel 'equivalent'.
The rebel army have now started to mass!!!(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170723/265a1b9840e59e8947971b4cb0e45b8b.jpg)
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:-bd =D> :-bd
Loving the idea, especially the captured gun!
8)
Cheers - Phil.
Very nice!
Thank you
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Inspired by my visit to Norton St Phillips and my purchase of Chandler's book of Sedgemoor (published '84), I am starting to paint up some units which will also be suitable for use in a potential 'Pikeman's Lament' scenario to recreate the skirmish there.
I am using the Pendraken French dragoons to recreate the Horse Grenadiers of the Guard Cavalry. They are not a completely accurate model but the HG were shown wearing the 'sock' hat of the foot grenadiers. Of course, I could have just painted foot grenadiers as Horse Grenadiers, but on the other hand, there are no good mounted figures to work with them, unless one uses the mounted French dragoons anyway, and with all respect to tbe range, the foot grenadiers are very passive looking chaps. The French dragoons on the other hand are very active and one can imagine them in action trying to storm the obstacle set up by the rebels. Anyway, the 1st Foot Guards contributed grenadiers to the operation so the two are subtley different.
So, first block paintings which will be detailed over coming days:
(If anyone can suggest more suitable substitutes by the way, I am all ears!)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170728/e9b2b8b6c89f8ca238827fa73fa4315a.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170728/7aab58ea25ef5442f6624e7fa2cb58aa.jpg)
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Nice start
Seconded. :)
Cheers - Phil.
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Quote from: Womble67 on 29 July 2017, 12:30:51 AM
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Well, it's been sometime since I last updated this forum! I actually got rid of Tapatalk as I wasn't that satisfied with the functionality but found I couldn't easily update the pages without it. Certainly photos wouldn't load. Then I have had multiple distractions includong a change of role at work, training in my 1'=12 inches army reserve activities, and my eldest daughter leaving home yesterday to start at Uni back in my original hometown of Bath (ah, but how the gods jest with us!)
I have also had yet another change of heart re the basing. The 1:4 fig ratio was great BUT didn't correspond to any rules. I also found my interest in Sedgemoor was feeding an interest in other parts of the era, and a yen to model the French army particularly. So, I made a choice to rebase my regiments in accordance with the 'Twilight of the Sun King' rules for the big battles and do other figures for the skirmishes using ' The Pikeman's Lament' rules, for Norton St Philip, Keynsham Bridge and other small engagements.
I shall resume posting soon but here is a 'taster' of the dismounted French dragoons painted as Horse grenadiers of the Royal Army who will find themselves involved in the tough fighting on a wet Saturday morning in a little lane outside the Somerset village of Phillipsnorton.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/c9012fa2b1f29b52101418b59ebbb896.jpg)
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First views of Kirkes, Dumbarton's and Trelawney's Regiments under the new dispensations. Judicious repainting of some of the vast number of figures already completed but now surplus ought also to allow me to create the larger Guards Regiments.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/48c468f5bfe96cba4ebe91e18a1e2b98.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170924/af881a4a18ceb8c870336e7308be6a4a.jpg)
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Really nice
Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 September 2017, 04:35:12 PM
Really nice
Thank you!
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:-bd =D> :-bd
This will allow you to get units onto the table much faster :) :) :)
Quote from: paulr on 24 September 2017, 06:21:23 PM
:-bd =D> :-bd
This will allow you to get units onto the table much faster :) :) :)
Abso-blooming-lutely!
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I like how you're approaching things and the new units look great for bigger battles. Heard nothing but good things about Twightlight of the Sun King. I still have not decided what to use with skirmish level so will be interested to see your progress. In addition to Pikeman's Lament have also looked at Donnybrook and Scum of the Earth (although the last not real specific to Pike and Shot).
Quote from: d_Guy on 24 September 2017, 06:49:27 PM
I like how you're approaching things and the new units look great for bigger battles. Heard nothing but good things about Twightlight of the Sun King. I still have not decided what to use with skirmish level so will be interested to see your progress. In addition to Pikeman's Lament have also looked at Donnybrook and Scum of the Earth (although the last not real specific to Pike and Shot).
D_guy as ever your comments are eelcome and most helpful. I shall look those rulesets up.
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Really nice
Take care
Andy
Views of the three regiments. I am going to need slightly larger bases for the larger Guards Regiments. Unfortunately Pendraken don't do 120mm long rectangular bases, which would be useful.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/ae0eeb0ca95697965b5168dcccdaa527.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/4268512ca121036e84bba0558cacd1a4.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/68de652a9deac1948646038150d90f79.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/41debe49462fce765597075c246eb1b1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/52a9cd86f53b7b8c475ccb23ea2814e2.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170926/1d7851b258e3b20551a18b3b3ecade67.jpg)
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Urban, contact Leon. He will happily cut the MDF bases to any dimensions you want! He has the technology! :)
(He also seems to have a small group of Elves that apparently enjoy special orders!)
Quote from: d_Guy on 26 September 2017, 07:31:28 PM
Urban, contact Leon. He will happily cut the MDF bases to any dimensions you want! He has the technology! :)
(He also seems to have a small group of Elves that apparently enjoy special orders!)
I'll make the request! Many thanks. The rukes in TOTSK are based on multiples of 60mm so working from that, using roughly twice as many figs for the guards.
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Very nice
:-bd =D> :-bd
Nice stuff !
Cheers - Phil
Cor, they look *well* meaty!
Nice stuff :)
Really nice, compliments!
Cheers,
Rob
Quote from: Ace of Spades on 28 September 2017, 05:31:25 AM
Really nice, compliments!
Cheers,
Rob
Many thanks for everyone's kind words.
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Started on the guards. Coldstreamers will be tge first, been doing the pikes. Photos to follow. Slightly different approach to these. Watch this space.
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So, I have made a start on the Coldstream (2nd Regt of Foot) Guards. I have chosen to use Pikemen with breastplates as my sources suggest they were at least equipped with those although it is a moot point as to whether they were wearing them at Sedgemoor or not. I have chosen a formation where the pike block, with ensigns embedded, are fronted by the grenadier company. At this time the Guards had companies double the strength of the line companies, qhich I could have ignored but decided not to. Thus the Guards will be on double sized bases with more figs on them.
Haven't yet done the musketmen, as I need to order a few more flintlock equipped infantry. They should be completed soonish.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/227bf62fdce2cea79ff965bd94e7b582.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/f01ba8cb9d56d17a3cab306bea2bdb92.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171015/889671e1261651ba4d82e9fe2883e177.jpg)
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Looking very good, Urban. I particularly like the treatment you've don on the pike shafts.
Vallejo Buff then washed with Army Painter Flesh Wash...
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Nicely done
Very nice indeed
Take care
Andy
Quote from: urbancohort on 15 October 2017, 07:59:30 PM
Vallejo Buff then washed with Army Painter Flesh Wash...
I'll file that away for my 'possible' ECW project
:-bd
Cheers - Phil
I have also tried light yellow as a start colour. If uou look at wooden poles they are not usually the heavy brown colours we picture them to be. They are much lighter.
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Finished the flintlockmen for the Coldstream Regiment. Still got to complete the base itself.
Central pike block, Musketeers in from of block and muskets to wings. Officer and drummer to right wing ( of formation, left in photo) and ensigns embedded in the pike block. Seen representations of this on woodcuts, this is my attempt to replicate.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171025/c74decf1257e3f9a77db193e2dc197f1.jpg)
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They're gonna very beefy on table :)
Can I suggest more light on the photo's though?
I just got one of these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/slp/selfie-ring-light/7ze4ktj8c6wo942 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/slp/selfie-ring-light/7ze4ktj8c6wo942) and it's pretty handy!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 25 October 2017, 12:09:39 PM
They're gonna very beefy on table :)
Can I suggest more light on the photo's though?
I just got one of these - https://www.amazon.co.uk/slp/selfie-ring-light/7ze4ktj8c6wo942 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/slp/selfie-ring-light/7ze4ktj8c6wo942) and it's pretty handy!
Unfortunately I only have the camera on my phone! But I'll try to get better shots on it later once base is done.😁
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Looking pretty good 8)
The selfie ring clips over the top of the phone so it throws light straight where you snapping :)
For a fiver it's very decent!
Quote from: toxicpixie on 25 October 2017, 01:03:46 PM
The selfie ring clips over the top of the phone so it throws light straight where you snapping :)
For a fiver it's very decent!
Yes, realised after I replied. I might give it a go!
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Nice looking unit, that man !!
Cheers - Phil
My t'other half found it as she complains about the lighting of my piccies (granted, she's a much better 'tog than I am, just a shame I can never get her to take the bloody things for me :D), and suggested it would be a major bump. I quite want a cheap portable/foldable light box now as well :D
For a fiver it was well worth it, and I can just leave it on the desk and grab it at need so it's dead convenient - set up or storage is minimal ;)
Given the informed criticisms above (guilty m'lud!) And still not having ordered the selfie ring - promise I will! I thought I would add tgese photographs of the finished unit of Coldstreamers. Still a long way to go before I get to the standards of painting seen elsewhere. Whilst I am satisfied with the 'mass' overall impact the induviduals leave much to be desired.
In particular I can't get those faces right, despite trying to adhere to all the instruction here an on other posts.
Also, which is better in your opinion, fellow Pendrakeners, shading to represent the folds of clothes, be that by dry brushing or ink washes, or the technique whereby gaps are created using black paint? And if the latter does one also shade or use flat colours for the coloured areas?
I have used vallejo burnt red as the basis for these figures. That is almost a brick red. I have read somewhere that before industrial cloth production that the coats of infantry, at least, probably WERE an almost brick red colour, not the scarlet and bright shades we often use. I then highlighted the private sentinels' coats with flat red and vermilliin, adding some scarlet to the officers.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/4e355b48ac39539637b9f35faeec86c1.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/0446ce0e8fabb6f5745922ff9e2e9b46.jpg)
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Hi Urban,
I really like the Coldsream, nicely done! You have already exceeded my own painting standards (which is why Pixie is painting mine) so I can offer no useful advise other then to say put them on the board and game with them.😀
What I vaugly remember from days long past - madder was the usually red dye used for rank and file coats. The wool could me fixed with various metal salts to help hold or slightly modify the color. The usually shade was a slightly orange to pink - brick red. Officers, who generally used private tailors, usually used the more exotic cochineal (ground up insects from somewhere?) which gave a deeper, richer, longer lasting scarlet. Of course I could easily be wrong about all of this.
Basically I just play with the things. :)
I think initially in the post-Civil War era the officers tended to wear crimson. When they switched to scarlet in the late C17th or early C18th the crimson was kept in the sash to further distinguish them from the rank and file.
Quote from: d_Guy on 28 October 2017, 03:28:27 PM
Hi Urban,
I really like the Coldsream, nicely done! You have already exceeded my own painting standards (which is why Pixie is painting mine) so I can offer no useful advise other then to say put them on the board and game with them.😀
What I vaugly remember from days long past - madder was the usually red dye used for rank and file coats. The wool could me fixed with various metal salts to help hold or slightly modify the color. The usually shade was a slightly orange to pink - brick red. Officers, who generally used private tailors, usually used the more exotic cochineal (ground up insects from somewhere?) which gave a deeper, richer, longer lasting scarlet. Of course I could easily be wrong about all of this.
Basically I just play with the things. :)
Ha ha! Yes, that is good advice. Just started basing the Horse Grenadiers and made a slight departure from previous. It'll be interesting to see what people think, so standby for the shots when the stand is completed.
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Quote from: Leman on 28 October 2017, 03:46:36 PM
I think initially in the post-Civil War era the officers tended to wear crimson. When they switched to scarlet in the late C17th or early C18th the crimson was kept in the sash to further distinguish them from the rank and file.
That makes sense! Thanks Leman.
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Very nice work chap
So, here is the first viewing of my Horse Grenadier units. I am primarily thinking of using these with 'The Pikeman's Revenge' skirmish rules, which I believe probably better recreate the sort of actions where dragoons, HGs and to a certain extent grenadier units would play a key part. Thus I am looking for a different 'feel' for the units.
By using the 60mm base though it does allow my units to be used in more mainstream actions.
I realise that this is more of a 'diorama' look to it and hence won't be to everyone's taste but let me know what you think. The base isn't yet finished so there will be more about this concept.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/c94281423ceab0700d9aff1fde40352f.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/6375d2cbd70b9acf80113b77a957a710.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171028/78a5dcef3ecad3056882329b62f71ccb.jpg)
Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
Looking damn fine.
Cheers - Phil
Excellent work all round 8).
:-bd =D> :-bd
Like that
=D> =D> =D>
Goodness gracious me! It's been a few days short of TWO YEARS since I last did anything on this...!
Like Rip Van Winkle I awake from a wargaming slumber/sabbatical and wonder just what I've been about all this time... And my lead mountain has decreased by not a single figure.
So hello again old comrades, the steam is being raised, the brushes are being readied, and hopefully this blog will be restarting again, revitalised by the rest...
Daub Errata
Paint placidly amid the noise and haste, and make the most of whatever passes for silence.
As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with spouses, parents, pets and children.
Pass on tips quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and the ignorant; they too have their insights.
Avoid power gamers, they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser painters than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.
Keep interested in your own armies, however humble; they are a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution on EBay; for it is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strike surprising deals; and everywhere there are bargains.
Be yourself. Everyone else is taken!
Especially, do not feign an interest. Neither be cynical about production schedules; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment sooner or later someone will make a model of it in a scale you want.
Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth; eyesight, steady hands ....
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many botched paint jobs are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself.
You are a child of Pendraken, no less than Techno, Mad Lemmy or Leon ; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the Pendraken figure ranges are unfolding as they should. Therefore be at peace with Leon, whatever you conceive him to be, and whatever your labours and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep pace with your purchases.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to paint something.
<Sorry Max> :)
Not sure if that will cause inspiration or desperation but look forward to signs of progress, however humble!
;D :D
:-bd =D> :-bd =D> :-bd
Brilliant Ithoriel =D> =D> =D>
They look great
Take care
Andy
Cool
Well, it has again been a few weeks since I last posted but decided to post this. My interest in Sedgemoor has actually kindled a much larger interest in the wars of the era. Finally I could resist it no more, and I have been working on a French Army of Louis XIV. I have selected the Normandie Regiment as a starting point as their uniforms seemed relatively straightforward, and I have loads of Matchlock men in my "lead mountain", and whilst I am to do some guards units, they surely would have flintlock as opposed to older Matchlock. I have done the Pike section (I am using Pike and Shotte rules) and am now doing a unit of grenadiers. I must admit to having no info on whether the Normandie Regt did have grenadiers, or what they looked like, but hopefully these are credible!
Slight technical issue loading the blasted photos...
https://flic.kr/p/2hQWMWi
Quote from: urbancohort on 25 November 2019, 08:44:14 PM
... and am now doing a unit of grenadiers. I must admit to having no info on whether the Normandie Regt did have grenadiers, or what they looked like, but hopefully these are credible!
Hmmm! Hope you are correct (but I have a feeling I've read somewhere that French Grenadiers during the 9YW may have worn floppy hats) - fingers crossed. :-\
On the bottom right of the Flickr page there is an arrow 'turning right', click on this
In the pop up box click on BBCode, copy and paste the contents of the next box into the Pendran Forum and Post
Before copying you can use the next box down to select the image size you want, I used Medium (640x480)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49124283217_818ed8e3fa_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hQWMWi)2019-11-25_08-55-33 (https://flic.kr/p/2hQWMWi) by Graham Price (https://www.flickr.com/photos/142043116@N02/), on Flickr
:-bd =D> :-bd
No idea if they are credible ;)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 25 November 2019, 09:02:49 PM
Hmmm! Hope you are correct (but I have a feeling I've read somewhere that French Grenadiers during the 9YW may have worn floppy hats) - fingers crossed. :-
I definitely read that a few years later the "Gardes Française" and French Swiss guard had Grenadier companies who wore fur caps, do it isn't a huge leap to say they were wearing similar headgear 10 or so years earlier. The "sock" hats seem logical, at least my figs have got the floppy bit to the side!
Quote from: paulr on 26 November 2019, 12:52:04 AM
On the bottom right of the Flickr page there is an arrow 'turning right', click on this
In the pop up box click on BBCode, copy and paste the contents of the next box into the Pendran Forum and Post
Before copying you can use the next box down to select the image size you want, I used Medium (640x480)
Many thanks. I have incredible difficulties getting photos on the forum when I try to post. It doesn't help that the camera on my phone (fliipin' Sony Xperia... Never again!) doesn't seem to be able to focus on close shots for all I play with the settings!
Quote from: urbancohort on 26 November 2019, 05:45:15 AM
I definitely read that a few years later the "Gardes Française" and French Swiss guard had Grenadier companies who wore fur caps, do it isn't a huge leap to say they were wearing similar headgear 10 or so years earlier. The "sock" hats seem logical, at least my figs have got the floppy bit to the side!
My comments are well intentioned, aiming to guide you away from any paint work which may prove to have been unnecessary. Personally, I would leave the fur capped miniatures aside for future units in armies where the evidence is strong that their grenadier units wore fur caps.
Hopefully, there is someone out there with more knowledge who can provide more information (because I'm certainly no expert).
In this 'History of the Grenadier' in the Royal Scots website (re-enactors, to be fair, but usually they take their research fairly seriously), they suggest early French grenadier caps were more likely to be cloth or the 'sock' type caps, you mentioned.
http://www.royalscotsgrenadiers.com/grenadier.html (http://www.royalscotsgrenadiers.com/grenadier.html)
At first the Grenadiers of Louis's army were uniformed in the regular standard infantry uniform. ......... By 1676 we see special fur lined tuque like hats being worn, obviously a practical change as the wide brimmed hat must have gotten in the way of slinging muskets and throwing grenades. These hats were also an early version of the cloth mitre and eventually the tall bearskin hat. It is interesting to note that the first bear skin Grenadier hats appear in France during the 1740's and if you follow styles, those nations who were Protestant, such as Hanover, and Britain wore the mitre while Catholic countries such as Austria and France wore bearskins.There is also someone on Barry Hilton's League of Augsburg 'Fighting Talk' forum making the assertion that by the LoA/9YW, French grenadiers wore felt hats.
http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3631 (http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3631)
I don't know how accurate that is but, as most will know, Barry is really into the LoA having published various rules for the period, running the above website and forum and starting up his own miniatures company devoted to armies of the LoA. There could yet be an appropriate addition to the Warfare Miniatures range but it just seems curious to me that he has not yet produced fur capped French grenadiers for the LoA.
Then there's Charles S Grant's
Armies and Uniforms of Marlborough's Wars. Here he says,
It seems few (French grenadiers) wore the sort of hat associated with grenadiers. Instead they wore the sort of hat turned up at the sides, with the exception of the Garde Francaise who had grenadier type hats.Of course, that source relates to the WSS but, equally, it isn't a huge leap to say they were wearing similar headgear 10 or so years earlier. So, at some point the common French grenadier headwear may well have changed from felt hat to sock cap then back to felt hat but not involving fur hats. The good news is that Pendraken sell
LOA15: Grenadiers, Cloth Caps, Standing (although there is no photo, as yet)
Nice paint job, by the way. :)
Quote from: Westmarcher on 26 November 2019, 11:39:05 AM
My comments are well intentioned, aiming to guide you away from any paint work which may prove to have been unnecessary.
And well received, I assure you! All help/advice most gratefully received! :)
In this 'History of the Grenadier' in the Royal Scots website (re-enactors, to be fair, but usually they take their research fairly seriously), they suggest early French grenadier caps were more likely to be cloth or the 'sock' type caps, you mentioned.
http://www.royalscotsgrenadiers.com/grenadier.html (http://www.royalscotsgrenadiers.com/grenadier.html)
At first the Grenadiers of Louis's army were uniformed in the regular standard infantry uniform. ......... By 1676 we see special fur lined tuque like hats being worn, obviously a practical change as the wide brimmed hat must have gotten in the way of slinging muskets and throwing grenades. These hats were also an early version of the cloth mitre
This is fascinating! Thank you again.
http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3631 (http://www.leagueofaugsburg.com/fightingtalk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3631)
Thank you for these resources!
LOA15: Grenadiers, Cloth Caps, Standing (although there is no photo, as yet)
As it happens, that is the figure code of the bag I used here! 😂
Nice paint job, by the way. :)
You are v kind. I tremble before your in depth knowledge and offer my profuse thanks for sharing with me, as I have none of the resources you deploy there. This is why I 😍 this forum.
The paint job is improving of course as I practice, and whilst somewhat out of practice, the skills et is slowly returning!
A bit of a late entry to this.
I don't depict grenadiers in the main body of a unit but I do have a few units of converged French Grenadiers for use where the scenarios warrant them. I had thought of trying to add "ribbons" of GreenStuff to the basic musketeer figures.
I mentioned this in a chat with Barry Hilton (Beneath the Lily Banners) who instead suggested using dismounted dragoons in the "stocking" caps and removing the buttons from their gaitors to turn them into stockings. This was a much easier approach and the finished units looked very effective.