Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Righty then folks, it's here!  There's been a load of interest in the Korean War for some time now, so with the help of Sunray we've put together a master list for everyone to have a look at.  We've also added a poll so that you can place your votes for which ranges you'd be most interested in buying. 

So, once you've had a read through, what we're looking for in terms of feedback is:

- Are there any specific uniform details, beyond what we've got listed?
- Do folks want any flamethrower figures?
- Any satchel charges for nations other than the Chinese?
- Any further heavy weapons / artillery pieces we need to add?
- There currently aren't any winter Chinese, as they can be proxied from the other nations.
- Does anyone want other command figures, standards / musicians, etc?
- We've got an idea of the few vehicles that need to be done, but feel free to list those as well.
- Any other general queries/requests?

Other than that, if anyone has any good pictures or weblinks for useful information, pop them up as well!  Phil will be starting work on these towards the end of this year and we're looking at around a 9-12 month sculpting schedule for the 100+ sculpts that need to be done.  Any vehicles will be done separately be Mart.


Korean War

American
In early war kit, M1 helmet, M1 rifle
2 x Advancing, with rifle
1 x Advancing, with BAR
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing carbine
1 x Standing, hip firing SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing BAR
1 x .30 Browning MG with separate loader
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x 81mm mortar with 2 crewmen
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty
1 x Head/shoulder tank commander sculpt in US helmet

In late war kit, trousers with pockets, fur caps, mix of flak and Parka jackets , M1 rifle
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing carbine
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
2 x Officers

British
In tropical shirts, long trousers and bush hats (right side folded up)
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Bren MG, advancing
1 x Bren MG, prone firing
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x 4.2" mortar with 2 crewmen
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty

Commandos, In US kit and berets
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, hip firing SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x .30 Browning MG, firing on the move
2 x Officers (1 with map/binocs, 1 with SMG)
1 x M20 bazooka with separate loader
1 x Head/shoulder tank commander sculpt in beret

In cap comforters mainly, some berets, camo smocks or leather jerkins.
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Advancing with sten
1 x Bren MG, firing
1 x M20 bazooka with separate loader
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers (one in beret, one in SD cap)


North Korea, KPA
In shirt, double breast pockets, caps generally but one or two Soviet helmets (not on officers)
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Advancing with DP LMG
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing SKS carbine
1 x Standing, firing PPSh M1941 SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing DP LMG
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x 120mm mortar with 2 crewmen
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty
1 x Head/shoulder tank commander sculpt in Soviet helmet

South Korea, ROK
In US kit, field caps, occasional US helmet here and there.
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing M1 carbine
1 x Standing, firing M3 SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x With satchel charge
1 x Casualty

Chinese
In tunic and soft cap
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing Chinese 7.62mm Type 50 SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing DP LMG
1 x Japanese Model 92 MG with separate loader
2 x Officers
1 x Bugler
1 x Radio Operator
1 x 80mm mortar with separate loader
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty

In winter weather gear
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Standing, firing Chinese 7.62mm Type 50 SMG
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
2 x Officers
1 x Throwing grenade

Hello Leon

With the Chinese are you envisaging uniform like this (which can be easily transported back 20-30 years :) ):-

(http://www.comtourist.com/images/large/dutch-army-museum-10/delft-army-museum-chinese-volunteer-korea-01.jpg) (http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/BrenWoodard/enemy-korea.jpg)

or only ones like this:-

(http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s252/BrenWoodard/Forum%20Crap/IMG_0028.jpg)

Will I have to wait for my winter (uniform) of discontent :) to get warlord proxies?

Only other thing I can think of is maybe a Chinese/Korean bugler and/or standard bearer for local colour?

(https://www.awm.gov.au/images/collection/items/ACCNUM_SCREEN/P02758.008.JPG)

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

Lovely range, I will be getting these.

For completeness I thought:

American -  BAR advancing
British – 3" mortar
North Korea and Chinese – 82mm mortars, Bugles, advancing DP LMG

Cheers, Rob  :) :)

Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 25 October 2016, 09:57:14 PM
With the Chinese are you envisaging uniform like this (which can be easily transported back 20-30 years :) ):-

I've added those to the list, so we'll have the winter kit as well.

Quote from: GrumpyOldMan on 25 October 2016, 09:57:14 PM
Only other thing I can think of is maybe a Chinese/Korean bugler and/or standard bearer for local colour?

I've added a bugler for the Chinese.

Quote from: Rob on 25 October 2016, 10:21:37 PM
American -  BAR advancing
British – 3" mortar
North Korea and Chinese – 82mm mortars, Bugles, advancing DP LMG

I've added the US BAR figure, plus the 82mm mortar and bugler for the Chinese.  The Koreans now have the DP LMG advancing and we'll have a think about the other mortars.

I would hope to use the Summer Chinese for WWII through to Korean War!

Eric

Is a RCL needed? (Wanted - "yes"- but needed?")

Also my hazy recollection of Korean War memoires suggests that there were Chinese and/or North Korean units armed predominantly with the Burp gun. I am prepared to be wrong on that, but certainly, in my head I see waves of SMG and grenade toting Communists.

Could we have a little more variety in the Red SMGs?

(I may have mentioned on this forum my disdain for a) kneeling b) firing and c) prone figures, and would happily swap one of those for a "SMG - Advancing" figure.)

Side note: I think only one vote counts?

If it's 3 it's 3, otherwise I'll be on to the Electoral Reform Commission.

IanS

Done it again when I'm sat at a desk and all three counted.

But I wanted at least 4!  :'( :'(

'fraid I'll be passing on this one.

We'll miss you, Buddy.

As for vehicles, I don't think there is a massive amount needed.

M75 and perhaps Oxford carrier. These, though are just icing. The bulk of Korean War vehicles are already covered or in the pipleine.

Unless you're of the "But on that particular Sunday there were 3 Mk17's with the square hatches deployed on a parade ground in Seoul which could possibly have got dirty if there had been a massive Communist attack a la Tet Offensive" brigade.

This is a major commitment by Pendraken. An ambitious range of figures.  There are ones that excite me - the RoK in caps and light order have a limitless scope for painting up as Third World African/Latin American bush war figures. Even US WW2 rear echelon !  The KPA in summer gear are not far behind in terms of Soviet sphere applications.

41 Commando in US kit/weapons with berets ! Wow ! That meets a lot of early NATO requirements  until the 7.62 FN arrives. .
My "John the Baptist Act" got 3,000 + hits and generated good discussion. I have prepared the way for the Dark Lord  Any comments on Korea post there here.

The Pendraken Korea range is no longer a rumour - its happening, and we have lived long enough to see it !

A tour de force, Friend Sunray.

You are to be congratulated on your Autumn Push.

Now, while Pendraken are working on those, may I interest you in some chariot armies?  :P For truly it is written that the followers of the Dark Lord and an ungrateful lot, who are never satisfied.

This range does offer so much - a bridge between WWII and the Viet Nam/Falklands ranges.

Right Techno. Stuff them burks in the pyjamas with the stone tennis bats, get on with some proper work.

First pics by next Friday?

OIK !!

Cheers - Phil.

No FRiday, after the modern infantry - Duck Knights and Wombels with AK's. STOP WASTING TIME WITH THE CHOCLATRE BARS....


IanS

Quote from: fsn on 26 October 2016, 07:06:03 AM
As for vehicles, I don't think there is a massive amount needed.

M75 and perhaps Oxford carrier. These, though are just icing. The bulk of Korean War vehicles are already covered or in the pipleine.

Unless you're of the "But on that particular Sunday there were 3 Mk17's with the square hatches deployed on a parade ground in Seoul which could possibly have got dirty if there had been a massive Communist attack a la Tet Offensive" brigade.

I'd like an M4A3E8 with 76mm turret, and an M40 155mm howitzer please. Don't think these are currently in the range?

Cheers, Martyn
--

Quote from: fsn on 26 October 2016, 06:44:02 AM
Done it again when I'm sat at a desk and all three counted.

But I wanted at least 4!  :'( :'(

I expected people might want more...  3 should be enough for now, it'll give us a good idea of which ranges come first.

Quote from: Raider4 on 26 October 2016, 04:09:31 PM
I'd like an M4A3E8 with 76mm turret, and an M40 155mm howitzer please. Don't think these are currently in the range?

I'll have a check on those, as I know the Easy 8 is on the list to be done already so it shouldn't be too hard to do the GMC conversion on it.

8)

Right! Right! Aside from the M75. the Oxford Carrier, the M4A3E8K2 and the M40, what has Pendraken never done for us?

I thought the E8 was on the list.

Is the M50 (already done - MDV27) the same hull as the easy 8?

Quote from: Matt J on 26 October 2016, 06:18:52 PM
Is the M50 (already done - MDV27) the same hull as the easy 8?

Should be, it's the welded hull with the same suspension setup, but I get a bit lost with all the Sherman variants, so I'll check on Dave where we are with it.

Please, please, please could we use some common sense and ensure that the first ranges are compatible?

For example, if one is the Winter clad Chinese, could they not be paired with South Koreans in t-shirts and flip-flops?  

I know this won't happen, but I've been looking at the voting.

Also please more Burp guns!
(https://thesanghakommune.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/chin-vol-2.jpg?w=300&h=200)(http://i58.servimg.com/u/f58/18/51/57/79/pla_0211.jpg)

Australians
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/19/11/2C7F6E6A00000578-3241005-image-a-23_1442660173443.jpg)

???
(http://www.anyveteran.org/koreadocumentary/gaspard/infiltrators-in-enemy-unifo.jpg)

Isn't Nick Frost in that Aussie photo  :-\

Quote from: Matt J on 26 October 2016, 08:28:03 PM
Isn't Nick Frost in that Aussie photo  :-\

Haha - nicely spotted :) 8)

Quote from: fsn on 26 October 2016, 08:17:19 PM
Please, please, please could we use some common sense and ensure that the first ranges are compatible?

For example, if one is the Winter clad Chinese, could they not be paired with South Koreans in t-shirts and flip-flops?  

I know this won't happen, but I've been looking at the voting.

Too early in the preferendum to call what trends emerging - although I did think the early war Brits would lose out in popularity to the 29th Brigade in their smocks and more modern appearance.    Keep voting Commandos ! Only elite on the table with a 5/30. (1)

I have one hypothesis.  The AFVs - particularly the Centurion - have been out there for a long time.  Many gamers have painted up and based the
tanks .....and waited for the figures.  Are these gamers motivated by figures to compliment the tanks they  already possess ?  The sad news is the CPLA had no armour at the time of their 1950 offensive.  It will be little Chinese men against machines.

Another theory -  The Korean war was popular comic culture in USA. In the 1960s there was a plethora of war comics . I have read a PhD on Charlton and Marvel comics and their treatment of Korea.   Would there be a market for the American figures Stateside ?  The strong $ would make Pendraken very attractive, even with a retailer's margin.

(1) CWC rules for Korea has got a lot of the troop rankings and morale value simply wrong.  I have revised rules for my own gaming.

Quote from: Sunray on 26 October 2016, 10:48:23 PM

I have one hypothesis.  The AFVs - particularly the Centurion - have been out there for a long time.  Many gamers have painted up and based the tanks .....and waited for the figures.  Are these gamers motivated by figures to compliment the tanks they  already possess ?  The sad news is the CPLA had no armour at the time of their 1950 offensive. 

Another theory -  The Korean war was popular comic culture in USA. In the 1960s there was a plethora of war comics . I have read a PhD on Charlton and Marvel comics and their treatment of Korea.   Would there be a market for the American figures Stateside ?  The strong $ would make Pendraken very attractive, even with a retailer's margin.

No Armour? borrow someone elses !  ;)  I've seen at least one picture of a Cromwell/Centaur? (sorry my post war British tank knowledge is limited :) ) that was captured by the Chinese.

Also need to remember that Korea was mainly an infantry war so there were only limited amounts of tanks around....its not the Eastern Front in WW2......there were no entire armoured divisions deployed, the biggest armoured unit used, at least on the UN side, was US Battalion/British Reigment level.

Quite interested in a Korean war force myself if one can find the right rules and game scale (platoon/company/battalion/brigade level) that the other people that I game with feel comfortable with.  Have to agree with Sunjester that its good that PM are prepared to commit to this era, certainly opens up a whole raft of future gaming opportunities once the range is available 8)

 

A Cromwell Pierre, they were in the Recce Troop, I assume 11 like the Stuarts, but don't know for certain. It weren't proof from 84mm Sabot.

On Shermans - I think all the ones in Korea were welded, not cast. Should be M4A3E8/76(W), although you would need to do a 105 turret with coaxial flamethrower for the USMC.

IanS

Quote from: pierre the shy on 27 October 2016, 03:50:24 AM
No Armour? borrow someone elses !  ;)  I've seen at least one picture of a Cromwell/Centaur? (sorry my post war British tank knowledge is limited :) ) that was captured by the Chinese.

Also need to remember that Korea was mainly an infantry war so there were only limited amounts of tanks around....its not the Eastern Front in WW2......there were no entire armoured divisions deployed, the biggest armoured unit used, at least on the UN side, was US Battalion/British Reigment level.

Quite interested in a Korean war force myself if one can find the right rules and game scale (platoon/company/battalion/brigade level) that the other people that I game with feel comfortable with.  Have to agree with Sunjester that its good that PM are prepared to commit to this era, certainly opens up a whole raft of future gaming opportunities once the range is available 8)

Your borrowed Cromwell(s) - at least 12 captured by Chinese - relates to the Happy Valley battle of early 1951.   UN Intel reports that the Chinese passed them to the KPA. At least one used in defence of Inchon.  The explanation is that the Chinese were very much a peasant army.  Not a lot of trained tank crew- where as the Cromwell and the T-34 both descend from the Christie, so KPA would have some knowledge of how to use this tank.  The Chinese at this stage of the war simply did not use armour. This has to be reflected in the rules.  

You have to be careful in describing Korea as an infantry war.  It is perhaps useful to break the war into stages.  First stage, the KPA assault with 160 T-34s , and the retreat to the Pusan perimeter.  UN quickly establish air superiority, but  weak on the ground.  However  by 7 August 1950 the US have 400 medium tanks in the Pusan pocket (M4A3, M26, M46) and a superiority of 4to 1 when you factor in Royal Irish Centurions,  Cromwells , Lord Strathcona's Horse (M10s) and Filipin Chaffes.  

In terms of tank v tank, you have 9th July 1951 at Chonui.  M24 v T.34
Then 31 July at Chinjuon M26 v T-34 (the M26 had to be abandoned as a bridge was blown too early, no report of enemy recovering and using them.  Later reports of M4A3s engaging T.34s on 2 Aug and 'holding their own;

Naktong Bulge (early August) M26s in hull down positions break up T.34 attacks  - also benefit from CAS. (close air support).  Its also a good early example of in depth defence that would shape later NATO tactics

Then comes Inchon. The US Marines are fighting a slick combined arms battle with 50 T-34s being destroyed by M26s plus Corsair CAS

In the break out from Pusan, we have the largest tank engagement of the war.   A US intel report (now declassified Fort Lauderdale online ) counts a total of 239 destroyed or abandoned T.34 and 74 SU76 against 60 US Tanks.  The report gives the following detail of what was found below the 38th :

1.  39 by tank fire (16%)
2.  13 by rocket launchers (5%)
3.  102 by air strikes  (43%)
4   60 by napalm  (25%)

These stats were to shape NATO tactics in dealing with waves of T-34s, T-54s, and T-55s for many years to come!

Hope this is useful and stimulates an interest in gaming the Korean war.

Cheers

James
 

Thanks for the details Sunray and Ian S....I defer to your knowledge on such matters.

Didn't know the UN had so much armour in Pusan that quickly.

Got a bit of time to do some research before the range comes out  ;)

Cheers
Peter

Quote from: pierre the shy on 27 October 2016, 08:26:18 AM
Thanks for the details Sunray and Ian S....I defer to your knowledge on such matters.

Didn't know the UN had so much armour in Pusan that quickly.

Got a bit of time to do some research before the range comes out  ;)

Cheers
Peter

Peter, feel free to discuss and challenge.  Its a learning curve for all of us.  I am only wising up to then fact that US commanders denigrated the morale and combat readiness of their own men in engagements like Task Force Smith.  The revision (I have a link on the rumour thread) now shows they were covering their naivety in asking infantry to stop tanks with inferior and u/s equipment. No army brass likes to admit a balls up. The American military underestimated that the Soviets could train and arm a Third World nation to such efficiency.

Secondly please don't give Techno excuses !  I can just hear Phil "They have to do more research before I release my precious sculpts to Leon" .

I reckon I am getting a handle on Phase I of the war. (the 1950 Communist offensive, the Inchon landing and the push up from Pusan into North Korea )
I still need to learn a lot about Phase ii (the Chinese counter attack and how it petered out due to the very primitive Chinese approach to logistics. A problem which was solved in Vietnam by General Gap's use of 1000's of porters) And the Meatgrinder which offers nothing to game .  There is a Dunkirk style evacuation at Hungham which I need to study.
Phase III - the static dug in war around the 38th does not seem to offer much either.   But no doubt a fellow forum member will challenge that!     

I will probably end up gaming Korea like I did WW1 - keep to that early period of fluid movement and - in the Korean case, the improved Battle Field Management (the big improvement in comms over WW2) that allows Combined Arms to be taken to a new challenging level.  I have just ordered a few 1/144 F4U on ebay!   

Quote from: Sunray on 27 October 2016, 09:28:20 AM
Secondly please don't give Techno excuses !  I can just hear Phil "They have to do more research before I release my precious sculpts to Leon" .

Nah....I'm just waiting for the lists to be prioritized, so I know which order I'll be doing them.

THEN  (James  ;)) you'll be getting bombarded with emails, such as "What's this dude look like then ?.....Point me at some piccies......What about the kit on his back *...Does this look right ?  ;)

To a great extent, once I've got a single figure from a range 'right', I can basically 'copy' my original sculpt, as far as the uniform is concerned !

Cheers - Phil  (*Like the one you've already sent....That one was brill.)

Quote from: Techno on 27 October 2016, 09:46:29 AM
Nah....I'm just waiting for the lists to be prioritized, so I know which order I'll be doing them.

THEN  (James  ;)) you'll be getting bombarded with emails, such as "What's this dude look like then ?.....Point me at some piccies......What about the kit on his back *...Does this look right ?  ;)

To a great extent, once I've got a single figure from a range 'right', I can basically 'copy' my original sculpt, as far as the uniform is concerned !

Cheers - Phil  (*Like the one you've already sent....That one was brill.)

Happy to help in getting these little masterpieces to my table !  I see Nick Frost and his mates are still in 37 pattern web.  And even in British service bits of 37 were to linger on for a long time.  44 web had a short shelf life.   The reality check is that in reality, Brits and Commonwealth troops ras and pinch a lot of other people's kit. I had Norwegian shirts,  Swedish boots,  Dutch DPM trousers and a bits of US web.  Then a new RSM arrived .......

M75 apc were only used in the final weeks of the war and only a couple of them, M39 apc maybe a better bet used more extensively.

Dave

M75 was also used by Belgium during cold war

Quote from: Techno on 27 October 2016, 09:46:29 AM
Nah....I'm just waiting for the lists to be prioritized, so I know which order I'll be doing them.

THEN  (James  ;)) you'll be getting bombarded with emails, such as "What's this dude look like then ?.....Point me at some piccies......What about the kit on his back *...Does this look right ?  ;)

To a great extent, once I've got a single figure from a range 'right', I can basically 'copy' my original sculpt, as far as the uniform is concerned !

Cheers - Phil  (*Like the one you've already sent....That one was brill.)

You mean we can stop talking about the VLA range (Very Late Aztecs) when Leon is in ear shot?

I'm interested in all aspects of this one particularly the winter war and I notice this is doing well in the polls. However maybe a more logical, even chronological range release maybe better.
Eg start with early us, north Korean and rok.
Then add in this order
Tropical Brit
Summer Chinese
Commandoes
Winter Chinese
Late war us
Late war Brit

Surely it will be easier for techno to convert summer Chinese to winter than the other way around

If  you want a gander at plastic Korean war figures (with a lot of mistakes in dress and weapons- ie US troops with Bren guns) have a look at the Plastic Soldier Review.  and click on IMEX Korean War.

The review is quite brutal and well educated in criticism.    IMEX opted for the summer look. 

In the case of RoK it does give a flavour of the conversion potential - via a simple paint job- inherent in the figures

Quote from: Matt J on 27 October 2016, 01:11:15 PM
Surely it will be easier for techno to convert summer Chinese to winter than the other way around

Dammit! That sounds logical.  >:(

Yes, it certainly is.

I shouldn't have to 'pick' too much 'vulcanized' green stuff from the metal dolly if we do it that way round.

Picking green stuff off a used dolly is a RIGHT pain......Though Clibby & I have worked out a damn good (and relatively easy) way to do this....(You wouldn't believe it..... ;D ;D ;D)

It DOES depend on how well the wee men survive the pressing process initially......
Some come out, almost 'as new'......Others get pretty much, completely trashed.

Cheers - Phil

Phil - wouldn't you just convert a casting from the original green rather than than the original green itself?

ie casting of summer chinese, add more hat and padded jacket, remould (or is there something I'm missing).

This happens alot in the jewellery trade - 'oh that ring will sell well to our customers, buy it, stick it in a mould away you go...'

I have plugged the new proposed range on MHO forum wargames section.  One son of a Korean Vet responded with some comments.

1.  Chinese used pole charges (probably a crude version of the  Bangalore) . This could be used both to blow wire, or blow the tracks off a Centurion.  With no armour they obviously had to be resourceful.  Do we want a figure with pole charge .

2.  The KPA allegedly more fanatic than Chinese.

3. 45mmAT gun used for close support.  I assume it had an HE shell?

Quote from: Matt J on 27 October 2016, 04:18:12 PM
Phil - wouldn't you just convert a casting from the original green rather than than the original green itself?
ie casting of summer chinese, add more hat and padded jacket, remould (or is there something I'm missing).
This happens alot in the jewellery trade - 'oh that ring will sell well to our customers, buy it, stick it in a mould away you go...'

Certainly can, Matt.
To a great extent, it depends on how much of a mess I have to make reaming off bits that need to be re-done.

It CAN be time consuming, in the respect that I have to keep clearing the white metal dust from the desk, so that doesn't get mixed in with fresh g/s......and washing my mitts every few minutes, for the same reason.
Sometimes it can be quicker doing it that way.....Other times, it barely saves any time at all.

It's definitely dependent on how much (or little) I have to 'clean' from the master casting.....And I tend not to know how much I need to do until I actually start converting the wee man.

Cheers - Phil.

Cheers Phil, always interested to know more about the processes.

I think I'm going to have to put my first order in - T-34/85's some SU-76's and some Chaffee's to be blown up.

Quote from: Matt J on 28 October 2016, 12:21:37 PM
Cheers Phil, always interested to know more about the processes.

I think I'm going to have to put my first order in - T-34/85's some SU-76's and some Chaffee's to be blown up.

As a point of interest Matt- what rules will you play?  BKC or CWC ?   Do you favour the old "Close Attack" of BKC?

Quote from: Sunray on 28 October 2016, 11:03:58 AM
3. 45mmAT gun used for close support.  I assume it had an HE shell?

I believe so. The "Red army Handbook" says it did. (The 1942 45mm version.)

Quote from: fsn on 30 October 2016, 11:25:17 AM
I believe so. The "Red army Handbook" says it did. (The 1942 45mm version.)

Interesting. I only ask because the US army developed a canister round for its 37m and the Marines used it in a  shotgun on steroids role  to decimate Japanese waves at Guadalcanal .

Sunray.

I have BKC2 but never played them, actually I've never played an historical wargame in my life as yet  :o so probably not best qualified on any rules questions.

I could do with a couple of F80 shooting stars though, anyone seen any in 1:144 ?

The base line would be Hannants who offer OzMod  Shooting Star 14404 at £12.99 + postage -  keep as eye on ebay now you know the going rate - but always factor in the postage rates- can end up that Hannants is cheaper!

Cheers Sunray, looks like Ozmod do the Sabre and MG-15 as well and there seems to be  couple of UK stockists.

Matt

Quote from: Matt J on 30 October 2016, 05:30:10 PM
Cheers Sunray, looks like Ozmod do the Sabre and MG-15 as well and there seems to be  couple of UK stockists.

Matt

no worries mate -  For your MiG  recommend Eduard £10.99 (buy one get one free!) Sabre - I went with Trumpeter around £6. Decent kit for the money.  No build problems, no flash and paints up well for the money.

Ground attack and close air support experienced a re-think in the late 1970s when research showed that "slow" piston and sub- sonic jets (without swept wings) were more efficient in terms of much needed Close Support accuracy,  than fast jets , not withstanding their  massive payloads (think F4 Phantom and A-4F Skyhawk) . The retro design is epitomised by the A10 and SU 25.  This logic  breathed new life into old slow trainers like the Jet Provost which reborn as the Strikemaster . I have watched a flight of 167s dump of 3k ordinance each on an impact zone. Impressively accurate. 

Unless you just want a bit of eye candy for parking on the ramp, (and dioramas are a much needed wing of the hobby) then Korean CAS aircraft of choice is the AU 1 Corsair with rockets (that's at least a  8/8 in BKC).  BCK will sort your CAS by rule or dice. 

Best wishes

James

Hello

Article here about converting Corsair for Indochinese war but equally applicable for Korea.http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/corsair.html (http://indochine54.free.fr/cefeo/corsair.html)

Cheers

GrumpyOldMan

Interesting stuff.  :D

Quote from: Sunray on 30 October 2016, 06:58:51 PM
For your MiG  recommend Eduard £10.99 (buy one get one free!)

Yup. Good kit.

Quote from: fsn on 30 October 2016, 09:29:20 PM
Yup. Good kit.

Don't know if the Mig 15 was ever used in CAS in Korea.  I would imagine the pilots would like to keep the wings clean for speed  when flying  CAP or radar intercepts.  Sabre pilots would fly very slowly so that the radar would misread their performance as vulnerable types and entice the MiGs to engage.

The MiG 15 has 500 kg of bomb load and a very useful N-37 cannon.  NATO assessments from the use of the N-37 in Nigerian Civil War flagged up its potential for straffing.  Certainly 37mm at high velocity would pose a risk to light armour.   

Don't think I've ever read about them being used in ground-attack, but one's sources may just not have mentioned the fact.

I would imagine that as high value assets, and with the UN's perponderance of air power, they would have been best utilised in the traditional fighter role. I may well be wrong.

My memory tells me that they we restricted as to zone of operations as there were concerns about Russia's new fighter falling into the hands of the decadent West.  Or am I mis-remembering?

Quote from: fsn on 31 October 2016, 11:24:17 AM
My memory tells me that they we restricted as to zone of operations as there were concerns about Russia's new fighter falling into the hands of the decadent West.  Or am I mis-remembering?

And Russia's pilots.  :o

Correct Rob.  The MiG was flying on a plagiarised RR engine.  They Labour Government supplied some, and the Russians visited RR with special soles on their shoes that picked up the metal turnings from the lathe, to assist reverse engineering.

The MiG 15s did not stray out of MiG Alley, so CAS would- if strictly wargaming Korea would have been a no-no.

Quote from: Sunray on 31 October 2016, 01:30:56 PM
The MiG was flying on a plagiarised RR engine.  They Labour Government supplied some...

Amazingly that was in the same year that Churchill delivered his famous 'Sinews of Peace' address in Fulton, Missouri. When our American cousins encountered the MiG-15 over Korea several years later and were informed of Attlee's friendly gesture they were understandably none-too impressed. When one considers that the Philby-Burgess-Maclean affair broke the following year, it is little wonder that the yanks started looking at us sideways!

And now you're spelling "yanks" with a lower-case y. Don't antagonise them; they beat you last time....

Quote from: FierceKitty on 01 November 2016, 11:51:46 AM
And now you're spelling "yanks" with a lower-case y. Don't antagonise them; they beat you last time....

You'll never make the Dixielanders happy whatever case it's in...

Suits me. I was involved with a Dixie once; a decidedly undistinguished affair, despite her "kindness of strangers" accent.

[quote a ;) ;)or=Wulf link=topic=15019.msg218045#msg218045 date=1478001681]
You'll never make the Dixielanders happy whatever case it's in...
[/quote]


Usually a case of sourmash from Lynchburg Tennessee makes them very happy.  ;) ;)

Its been a week since Leon launched the preferendum on Korean figures.  The odds are on late smock dressed Brits facing up to thermal clad Chinese - making the era of the conflict the winter of 1950, and the retreat from the UN positions close to the Chinese border (circa 25 Nov 1950) to the new line about 60 miles south of Seoul (25 Jan 1951) . The Chinese run out of steam and we have the so called meatgringer counter attack back up the peninsula to where the ceasefire lines are today just north of 38 th parallel.  There is stalemate from July 52 until the armistice of 27 July 53.

It is an era devoid of armoured (tank battle) engagements .  The Chinese don't even deploy artillery until the summer of 51.  Centurions  park on rams of earth with guns angled skyward to engage targets off the table. All rounds fired are HE.

But thats what the majority voted for - and what we are likely to end up with. (At least one other 10mm manufacturer has opted for  a similar range of winter war, although he may in his wisdom have gone for the parka clad ultra cocooned 1953 look).   Simple sculpt - put 10m head and feet on a 15mm scale torso.

Not too late to change your vote...... ;) ;)  But end of the day, when the polls close, I will accept the decision.

Imagine the consequences the day after Brexit- if one could recast one's vote - eh Boris ?

I hear what you say, Sunray.

I feel some "what if's" coming on.

Sunray, what vote are you recommending?

Hang on, hang on, have I read this wrong. I was under the impression all ranges were being done at some point :-\ and it was just a simple poll to see which ranges would be most popular   :-\.

Surely it isn't just 3 ranges being so decided by us numpties !

I might need to change my vote as i've starting ordering my armour for early war phase  :o

Leon, Leoooooon

We're doing all of the ranges, the poll is just to work out which ones are most popular so that we can schedule which order to do sculpt them in.

phew!

Quote from: Leon on 01 November 2016, 06:41:55 PM
which order to do sculpt them in.

Feet upwards, as normal, as far as I'm concerned.  :D

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Leon on 01 November 2016, 06:41:55 PM
We're doing all of the ranges, the poll is just to work out which ones are most popular so that we can schedule which order to do sculpt them in.

"We (Pendraken) are doing all the ranges" .  The case for the Forum rests.  I have no further questions Me Lord. (Party at the home of a well known sculptor based in Wales)

In response to Schlesin - vote for the figures that give you the style of games you enjoy, on the table of terrain you can afford.  For me I like tank country with moderate hills, a BUA on a vital crossroads, and a bridge or two.  No walk overs, the dice can swing it either way, and fortune favours the bold.

This criteria shapes my vote. My order for T-34/85 (Marty's spank new model!),  BA-64s (buy one get one free) and Gaz jeeps is already in.  I have vintage WGS DAK (possibly sculpted by Phil ) and lightly equipped US Marines who will stand in until the Pendraken masterpieces arrive.  

Substitute 41 Commandos will not be on the table. No one can stand in for the Royals.  

I think Fortune favours the lucky. Sometimes.

Quote from: Sunray on 01 November 2016, 07:12:25 PM

I have vintage WGS DAK (possibly sculpted by Phil )

Not me, Guv......I've only ever made a handful of 'vehicles', and those were Ral Partha tanky type things for Battlemech.

Cheers - Phil

Late surge by North Korea - I may not need those  stand in WGS figures after all!

Quote from: Sunray on 02 November 2016, 06:27:50 AM
Late surge by North Korea - I may not need those  stand in WGS figures after all!   All this tension is not good for Leon's nerves.

Now is the prospect of a winter clad war game turned to glorious summer by these sons of the KPA 

Interesting to see if it is matched by a boom in T34 sales.

May I repeat my plea for some extra Communist SMG poses?

Also, could we sneak in a Korean porter figure?

(http://eilifness.no/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Korean-Service-Corps.jpg)

The porter type figure- as illustrated- would be justified.  It was the lack of this basic logistical component that led to the Communist counter attack running out of steam (food, ammo, essential supplies) and allowed the UN to regroup.     The communists learned from this mistake about tactical overstretch.  Hence the porter battalions of Viet Min and Viet Cong. 

A second figure with the SMG would not go amiss.

Well it looks at 30 votes that the polls have closed.   It is difficult to decide on figures without seeing them.  Interested on what Leon's take is.  The remarkable feature of the Korean war is the range in dress and gear between Summer 1950, Winter 1950, summer 51 and the following winter.

The opposition needs to match in clothing - otherwise its the equivalent of Ardennes Germans circa 1944 meeting 8th Army Brits in desert gear.

My dad was in Korea from the Inchon landing till after the armistice in 53.   He told me he never saw an sks rifle used there. In fact the first one he ever saw was at a gun show in the late 1980s. Are there photos of its use there? 

Quote from: Rifleman65 on 19 December 2016, 02:50:36 AM
My dad was in Korea from the Inchon landing till after the armistice in 53.   He told me he never saw an sks rifle used there. In fact the first one he ever saw was at a gun show in the late 1980s. Are there photos of its use there? 

Welcome to the forum Rifleman.  You raise an interesting topic.  I have scoured US Intel reports from the war and have never seen a reference to an SKS being captured.  I have seen no photographic evidence.

Now that does not mean the weapon was not issued in small numbers for field trial. The Soviets were already re-equipping with the AK-47, so would have tons of surplus.

The source that has inspired war game figure designers is the Osprey illustrated guide.  But this may be based on an exhibit in the Yonssan Museum.   And museums can get things wrong as does wikipedia

The Chinese started their massive production of the SKS in 1956, but did they have Soviet samples as early as 1950?

The only American source is Colonel David H Hackworth in his book About Face.   The book is ghost written by Julie Sherman and is more anecdotal  than factual.

We considered these arguments and hence the token representation of the SKS in the Pendraken Korean range. 
Personally I have to go with the evidence - and it won't be in my KPA, but the option is there if anyone wants to go with the popular Osprey inspired narrative.

By 1956 the SKS was in widespread service.  Warminister has examples captured in Suez. And the Pendraken range is designed to have utility as bush war Soviet client groups.   Some of mine will be painted up as Ethiopians - who had the SKS.

If any forum can find Primary Source material or photos of SKS in Korea, I would be most interested.

Hi Sunray, I agree with everything you said. It existed and could have been there. I remember dad talking about the Koreans and Chinese using a large caliber bolt action rifle, probably a mosin- Nagant, or Mauser variant, and of course the famous burp gun, psh 41?   And whole platoons of Chinese armed with Thompson sub machine guns. The Chinese supposedly manufactured a copy of the Thompson. He also mentioned a large sniper version of the Soviet anti-tank rifle from ww2, equipped with a scope for sniping. He also mentioned large amounts of Chinese troops with NO weapons at all. They were supposed to pick up the rifles of the fallen.  He said they all had bandoliers of ammo,and maybe a grenade .I have a Fairbane Sykes fighting knife he got from some British troops. He traded a m-1 carbine bayonet for it.

How's this?

 Very interesting Nobby.  It illustrates just how much the Chinese were forced to adapt captured weapons including the vast supply of Nationalist kit.
Serving in the PLA must have been a quartermaster's hell.   Its an AK -47 mag (Chinese copy) so would possibly date from 1956 .

I was guest of the Irish Army Reserve at Finner Camp back in the 1990s and was amazed at their average squad equipped with Carl Gustav SMG in 9mm, the FN in 7.62 and the BREN LMG in.303.   It was a logistical nightmare.

Techno (Phil) is paying special attention to grenades. Indeed he was heaving a tin of beans around to get the right throwing sculpt for the distinctive RG-42.   He then had to go and look for the tin, as the light goes early in the Welsh hills....and he likes his beans does Phil.

As the war progressed the KPA regrouped and would need to have been re-equipped in dress and kit.  Images I have verified show the Soviet Gymnasterka being worn by NCOs.  How widespread was this practice ?  Some war movies show elite "Flag assault units" in the Gymnasterka which would be a nice touch on the table.   For this reason the canny Phil has sculpted the shirt outside the trousers - so it can be painted as the Gymnasterka and indeed a host of post war third world uniforms.  :-bd     It will be a great range this Pendraken Korean.

A friend served out in Korea, was posted as a liaison with an Ozzie unit.
He arrived, had his SLR removed from his person (for protection purposes), to immediately be 'loaned' a fully automatic version...
With instructions to 'lose it when you return to your unit'!

Quote from: Sunray on 19 December 2016, 05:45:21 PM
Very interesting Nobby. 

I think the aspect that I found most interesting was the way that a Czech design, reworked in Britain, was made in the US, fro China, adapted for different ammunition (twice) and was probablty in service for 20+ years.

Quote from: Sunray on 19 December 2016, 05:45:21 PM
Techno was heaving a tin of beans around to get the right throwing sculpt for the distinctive RG-42.   He then had to go and look for the tin, as the light goes early in the Welsh hills....and he likes his beans does Phil.

That's what he told you. Actually, he just lost the tin opener.

Quote from: fsn on 19 December 2016, 08:54:14 PM
I think the aspect that I found most interesting was the way that a Czech design, reworked in Britain, was made in the US,

No,  it was the good old boys of John Inglis & Co, Toronto who made the Bren, and a very good model it was too. They also knocked out a very tidy 9mm Hi Power Browning that was the British Army pistol until the Glock arrived.

Quote from: fsn on 19 December 2016, 08:54:14 PM
I think the aspect that I found most interesting was the way that a Czech design, reworked in Britain, was made in the US Canada, for China, adapted for different ammunition (twice) and was probability in service for 20+ years.

Agreed, says a lot about the design and build quality :)

It was also helped by the nature of post war conflicts.  If you need accurate and controllable bursts from a portable weapon,  then you go with an LMG like the Bren or indeed the LSW fed with a magazine interchangeable with the rifle.  If you need heavy suppressive fire, then you want a belt fed GPMG.

The Brits fought a lot of police type actions in the years 1948- 2001.

I'd like to see American flamethrowers.

3.5" bazooka men in two poses, e.g. kneeling and firing, and prone and firing, if possible.  These will also work for early to mid-Cold War Danish troops, and early Cold War West Germans.  Probably for lots of other armies around the globe throughout the Cold War as well, e.g. Europe, Africa, South and Central America, etc., etc..

105mm/106mm recoilless rifles with American crews - ground mount, and jeep mounted weapon.

75mm recoilless rifle and crew.

Prone/firing, and prone/crawling figs, especially for the Chinese and North Koreans, who might try to infiltrate enemy lines by crawling in order to get close to their opponents and surprise them.

Quote from: Mako on 16 January 2017, 03:41:36 PM
I'd like to see American flamethrowers.

3.5" bazooka men in two poses, e.g. kneeling and firing, and prone and firing, if possible.  These will also work for early to mid-Cold War Danish troops, and early Cold War West Germans.  Probably for lots of other armies around the globe throughout the Cold War as well, e.g. Europe, Africa, South and Central America, etc., etc..

105mm/106mm recoilless rifles with American crews - ground mount, and jeep mounted weapon.

75mm recoilless rifle and crew.

Prone/firing, and prone/crawling figs, especially for the Chinese and North Koreans, who might try to infiltrate enemy lines by crawling in order to get close to their opponents and surprise them.

The 3.5 Bazooka is I believe already in issue (code MC18) US Marines WW2 and the 75mm M20 RR (code VM21) is in the Indo China range.
There is a long running request for the 106mm RR - it will come  :-bd

Thanks for the note, but no, that's a 2.36" bazooka, or should be.

The much larger, 3.5" one wasn't produced until 1950.

The research for the US Marine range was not on my watch, and Techno wasn't the sculptor,    but I have to say from memory the model that we have does look like the 3.5 with the very distinctive metal frame shoulder stock and breech that is not reflected in the M1 or M9 bazooka models.

Can someone fire us up an image of the Marine Bazooka figure ?

Quote from: Sunray on 25 January 2017, 11:56:01 AM
Can someone fire us up an image of the Marine Bazooka figure ?

Here you go:

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/4945891521_5ecc5133ae.jpg)

Bazooka = 54" long
Super Bazooka = 61" long

Difference 7"
In 150 = 1.18mm

Not that much larger, surely. 

Quote from: fsn on 25 January 2017, 12:16:46 PM
Bazooka = 54" long
Super Bazooka = 61" long

Difference 7"
In 150 = 1.18mm

Not that much larger, surely. 

If your "bazooka" was  7" longer than a normal one you would be crowing from the roof tops !!!  :d

No but I get your point - does it actually justify the cost of making a complete new master.  Surely a" paint job conversion"  painting the "Super Bazookas" a slightly different shade of green to the normal ones would be enough.

Quote from: Orcs on 25 January 2017, 12:23:08 PM
If your "bazooka" was  7" longer than a normal one you would be crowing from the roof tops !!!  :d

No but I get your point - does it actually justify the cost of making a complete new master.  Surely a" paint job conversion"  painting the "Super Bazookas" a slightly different shade of green to the normal ones would be enough.

Size doesn't matter a lot when sculpting weapons.  Indeed most sculptors will exaggerate things like barrel length to "make it look right reference detail" . Indeed Minifigs RPG7 figure takes it to the extreme. The rocket launcher is  twice the size it should be in 10/12mm scale.  Compare with Pendraken VC figure that is 'nearer to scale'.

Having looked again at the image Leon provided, and the unusual metal frame shoulder stock, I do think we (Pendraken) gave the US Marines (circa 1940s) the Super bazooka, which as Mako has rightly reminded us, was not in issue until post WW2.  Ops !  X_X

The 3.5 bazooka was long gone before my service.  I only remember the Charlie G in British issue, so never got to handle the weapon.  Ian might confirm if it is indeed the post war model?

The good news is the US Marine figure is good for Korea. 

I have to say that Phil is meticulous about getting period detail right.   Even the style of pockets on a combat jacket and the M43 appropriate over the M41 jacket and he has me sourcing images - as you all know.  Thanks again.  Those South Koreans should be appearing on the cork stoppers as we speak...

3.5 " - We only had 0ne for my first year, then got a Charlie G. If it's being carried it breaks in half with a rough thread - it's less cumbersome, but da*ned uncomfortable to carry. It has about the same proportions as the WWII one though.

IanS

Quote from: Orcs on 25 January 2017, 12:23:08 PM
If your "bazooka" was  7" longer than a normal one you would be crowing from the roof tops !!!  :d

As Jimeoin says "I wish I had 12" penis - instead of this monster".

Quote from: ianrs54 on 25 January 2017, 04:04:19 PM
3.5 " - We only had 0ne for my first year, then got a Charlie G. If it's being carried it breaks in half with a rough thread - it's less cumbersome, but da*ned uncomfortable to carry. It has about the same proportions as the WWII one though.

IanS

Thanks Ian.  The 3.5" had a sling from the pistol grip to the breech end.  I think that's what is reflected in the sculpt.  The earlier bazooka had its sling from the grip to just behind the stock.
Be good to hear from the sculptor ..... :^o

Quote from: Sunray on 25 January 2017, 06:46:32 PM
Thanks Ian.  The 3.5" had a sling from the pistol grip to the breech end.  I think that's what is reflected in the sculpt.  The earlier bazooka had its sling from the grip to just behind the stock.
Be good to hear from the sculptor ..... :^o

Are we agreed that the bazooka featured in the US Marines WW2 (MC18)is indeed the 3.5" and not and oversized M1/M9 2.36 ?

Quote from: Sunray on 27 January 2017, 09:48:35 AM
Are we agreed that the bazooka featured in the US Marines WW2 (MC18)is indeed the 3.5" and not and oversized M1/M9 2.36 ?

Sorry to intervene in an area about which I know so little, but.......... if you cannot tell the difference from the picture.............. does it really matter??   :- :- :- :o :o.   Ducks rapidly behind the sofa.   Chases the ducks out (no idea how they got behind that sofa!) and hides there himself.

Mollinary

If you're going to bring good sense to the forum, I think you need to consider your position.

Quote from: mollinary on 27 January 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Sorry to intervene in an area about which I know so little, but.......... if you cannot tell the difference from the picture.............. does it really matter??   :- :- :- :o :o.   Ducks rapidly behind the sofa.   Chases the ducks out (no idea how they got behind that sofa!) and hides there himself.

Mollinary

No need to duck mate- the only issue as far as I am concerned is that Pendraken  inadvertently  already have  the 3.5 on issue via MC18.  Now we may have a few pedantic types on the forum who will now demand an M1 bazooka for WW2 marines.  :'( :- :-

In terms of design for the new Korean ranges however, it will be good to make the new sculpts proportionate to what already is represented in MC18- then they don't optically jar when side by side on the table.  :-   A bit like old T-34 and new T-34 ! X_X

That 1940s US Marines can be used for early  Korea/Pusan  (20 July 1950 onwards)with the 3.5 cuts down the number of new sculpt demands and gives the existing range another lease of life.   I will ask Leon if MC18 can be remodelled in a US helmet.

I DEMAND AN M1 BAZOOKA

Well someone had too

IanS

Quote from: mollinary on 27 January 2017, 05:55:50 PM
Sorry to intervene in an area about which I know so little, but.......... if you cannot tell the difference from the picture.............. does it really matter??   :- :- :- :o :o.   Ducks rapidly behind the sofa.   Chases the ducks out (no idea how they got behind that sofa!) and hides there himself.

Mollinary

It matters to IanS !     >:(

If pressed, I can make do with one with a helmet, but the cap-firing one doesn't work for my needs, or those of the US, Danish, and West German Cold War armies, amongst others.

Would love to see one converted to a guy with a helmet - I suspect that shouldn't be too hard for a sculptor to do, and, one firing it from a prone position, since the kneeling one is already done.

I'd like the prone firing fig the most, while wearing a helmet.

Ok - Korean war fans - decision time

The Dark Lord has agreed to two officer figures for South Koreans

1.  Field Officer (Company CO type )  I had thought of a cool dude directing men, SMG/Carbine and Raybans   8) ?

2.  Senior officer Head Shed (HQ) type - would you want him in Eisenhower jacket with binos/map -  OR in M43 jacket and more combat orientated ?  :-

Vote now

Quote from: Sunray on 31 January 2017, 09:33:45 AM
Ok - Korean war fans - decision time
The Dark Lord has agreed to two officer figures for South Koreans
1.  Field Officer (Company CO type )  I had thought of a cool dude directing men, SMG/Carbine and Raybans   8) ?
2.  Senior officer Head Shed (HQ) type - would you want him in Eisenhower jacket with binos/map -  OR in M43 jacket and more combat orientated ?  :-
Vote now

On number 1, I vote for the cool dude with Raybans, with an SMG......'Cos I've nearly done him already.  :D......I've given him a helmet, rather than a soft cap.....Is that OK ?
Quick to change, if soft cap required.

Cheers - Phil.

1) Excellent. What kind of Raybans?  :P
2) I'd prefer a Ridgeway to a McArthur.


All praise the Dark One and his unimaginable greatness. 

Quote from: fsn on 31 January 2017, 12:35:09 PM
2) I'd prefer a Ridgeway to a McArthur.

What's that, then ?  :-\

Cheers - Phil

Both American generals in the Korean war. Very different styles.

Btw it's Ridgway and MacArthur. If you do an image search for these I'm sure you'll get the idea.

To quote the late, great Kenny Everett "Round em up, put em in a field and bomb...."

Gentlemen ....the Americans will arrive later in the war (unless there is oil involved ). :ar!

This Head Shed is a South Korean figure - although to be sure - he can be interchanged with US commanders in WW2 and Korea.

I was keeping McArthur or Ridgeway for the US figures.

No, we have a chance for a useful command figure.  The sort you would assign to a BKZ/CWC battle group.   Fire up a few images of the very senior head shed figure you would like.....

Sorry, I wasn't suggesting a mini-Ridgeway. I was suggesting a warrior rather than a ... not warrior. 

No worries Nobby.  The range is yours ...fire up some senior officer images .  Watch and shoot ....watch and shoot.... ~X(

I once altered a Fig 11 to represent a very senior Rupert.  Boy the groups were tight at 300 meters.  Impressed by this improvement, I send a memo upwards that "Fig 11 targets should be designed to represent high ranking officers as it psychologically enhanced the desire of the Toms to punch 7.62mm holes in them "

Hear nothing. Perhaps I should have specified that the Head Shed targets should be foreign (hostile) types,.... :-w

 ;D ;D

Quote from: Sunray on 31 January 2017, 07:08:30 PM
No worries Nobby.  The range is yours ...fire up some senior officer images .  Watch and shoot ....watch and shoot.... ~X(

I once altered a Fig 11 to represent a very senior Rupert.  Boy the groups were tight at 300 meters.  Impressed by this improvement, I send a memo upwards that "Fig 11 targets should be designed to represent high ranking officers as it psychologically enhanced the desire of the Toms to punch 7.62mm holes in them "

Hear nothing. Perhaps I should have specified that the Head Shed targets should be foreign (hostile) types,.... :-w

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Suddenly..... the lack of invitations to Head Shed Christmas parties became all too clear......

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Ok, I will give you a hard target -  Brigadier Paik Sun Yup.  The "Boy General" - Any and all images of him in uniform you can source.

I checked his CV and get the sense that he was the Stonewall Jackson of South Korea.   Methinks a heroic command pose - map stuffed under arm, binos raised , and pointing ?  What do you think Phil ?  :o

Q.  Why do Ghurkha officers survive longer in the front line ?

A. Cause the clever buggers don't attract attention by pointing.  :-

Paik, good choice  :-bd

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e9/Maj._Gen._Paik_Sun_Yup.jpg/170px-Maj._Gen._Paik_Sun_Yup.jpg)

(http://www.historyinanhour.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Paik-Sun-yup.jpg)
(http://ysfine.com/kowar/paiksy02.jpg)
(http://pds.joins.com/jmnet/koreajoongangdaily/_data/photo/2010/06/20220253.jpg)

Ill have a better look later, but apparently he didn't exist below waist level.

Quote from: fsn on 01 February 2017, 11:35:09 AM

Ill have a better look later, but apparently he didn't exist below waist level.

;D

Perhaps they mounted him on tracks ?

Seriously there is an oil painting of him meeting McArthur - a sort of "Stonewall meets Robert E Lee " The painting depicts Paik in M43 jacket, a neck scarf and soft field cap.   give him bins, a map and pointing and you have a classical command figure.

Now here is the clever bit. In this pose - with minimum equipment other than a belt/pistol - he would make a perfect proxy figure for Major General Jeremy Moore , "de boss" chose the Norwegian field cap for two reasons (1) It made him instantly recognisable when he appeared amongst his men and (2) He was a Royal to the core, but the cap gave a more neutral message when he had to command Paras, Guards, Ghurkhas, Royal Artillery, Household Cavalry  and other manner of creeping things ....

The Falklands range needs a Command figure - the poor chap from the mortar platoon (with binos) is making executive decisions way above his pay grade !   

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ef/Korea_delegation.jpg)
(http://i.f1g.fr/media/figaro/805x453/2016/08/26/XVM28da9608-6b65-11e6-b44a-31c1f3c79aa2-805x453.jpg)3rd from left - like the goggles!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/1951_Chung_Baik_Eisenhower.jpg)

He really didn't like his feet being photographed did he!

My thanks to Nobby for some great images - I like the one of the American General with his highly polished boots and the obligatory grenade in his web!  :'(

Like he was going to need a grenade !  They stopped the practice on Vietnam when the accident that was waiting actually happened !

Now - do you like the suggestion of a cap, binos and pointing figure that could proxy for say Jeremy Moore ?  :-

I'm confused (again).  :-[

I'm working on the American chap firing the M20 bazooka.

From the images I can find.....The' pistol grip' and 'trigger' are fairly obvious.....But how is the bazooka balanced by the left hand ? (Assuming I've got the chap using it, firing it right handed)

Some of the pics just seem to have the 'firer balancing' the front end of the weapon by simply holding the barrel underneath, with his left hand.
Others seem to show some sort of 'bolt on' handle/grip a little way in front of the trigger...(underneath the barrel)....with the left hand gripping that.

Which one's correct ?.....Or can the M20 be used in either way ?

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 01 March 2017, 05:07:58 PM
I'm confused (again).  :-[

I'm working on the American chap firing the M20 bazooka.

From the images I can find.....The' pistol grip' and 'trigger' are fairly obvious.....But how is the bazooka balanced by the left hand ? (Assuming I've got the chap using it, firing it right handed)

Some of the pics just seem to have the 'firer balancing' the front end of the weapon by simply holding the barrel underneath, with his left hand.
Others seem to show some sort of 'bolt on' handle/grip a little way in front of the trigger...(underneath the barrel)....with the left hand gripping that.


Cheers - Phil

Phil, the firer has his right hand on the pistol grip, the left hand is holding the metal frame in front of the grip - the frame is an oversized  trigger guard
The existing Pendraken figure Marine has got it right

James

(http://cdn-7.olive-drab.com/images/bazooka_usmc_50s_800.jpg)
Like the legs on the character to the right

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/74/Osan_Bazooka_Team.jpg/725px-Osan_Bazooka_Team.jpg)
A team mans a Bazooka at the Battle of Osan. Members of the 24th Infantry Division, first United States ground units to reach the front, go into action against North Korean forces at the village of Sojong-Ni, near Osan. At right is Private First Class Kenneth Shadrick, who was killed by enemy fire a few moments after this photo was made, thus becoming the first United States soldier to die in the Korean campaign.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/24/2f/da/242fda5cfd566bfc0dfe8d3c06bffcf7.jpg)
Military exercise of NPR(National Police Reserve of Japan), Year 1951/ Japanese book "Showa History Vol.14: Peace and Independence" published by Mainichi Newspapers Company.This photograph has already been made public.

(http://www.military-info.com/book/n03_rl3/Bazooka%2002.JPG)

Got it....Ta chaps  :)...So basically, the hands are touching each other as far as the model is concerned.

The 'bolt on' grip probably belongs to a more modern (?) type of bazooka, said he, guessing wildly....as it appears to be at least 'a foot' in front of the trigger itself.

Cheers - Phil

Can you do the legs like the chap in the first picture?

Also, I think his loader may be touching his bottom. Presumably as some kind of signal.

Quote from: Techno on 02 March 2017, 07:00:38 AM
Got it....Ta chaps  :)...So basically, the hands are touching each other as far as the model is concerned.


Cheers - Phil

Yes,  all images support that premise.  The M20 was originally conceived to be used with a ground/vehicle mount- hence the bar behind pistol grip
However, Korea demanded more mobile and off hand deployment, so the grunts had make do and mend using the large trigger guard as an improvised grip- Note - Only the top and bottom images supplied by fsn (get my email Stewart)? are of the M20- the middle two are the smaller M1/M9.

Holding on for dear life to the flimsy trigger guard was not ideal - but then combat conditions seldom are.  I would not be surprised if a more satisfactory grip was improvised.

Quote from: fsn on 02 March 2017, 07:46:55 AM
Can you do the legs like the chap in the first picture?

Yes......But I'm not going to.  :P ;)......Means even MORE work.  ;D ;D ;D
My loader is NOT touching the firer's botty.

Cheers - Phil.

Proves a previous point - Phil wont do anything.

On the Bazooka - looked at two sources from mid-late 70's - the picis show no hand grip, and I cant remember one.

IanS

Here's a link to lots of pics of the larger, M20 bazooka:


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=631&q=m20+bazooka&oq=m20+bazooka&gs_l=img.3..0j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.1168.5076.0.5455.11.11.0.0.0.0.149.1194.1j10.11.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.11.1179.aAZVH4ebOTE

As you can see, it can be fired prone as well.

Would love to have a pose option like that, with, or without the bipod, but with the 3.5" bazooka.

You can use existing Falklands Argentine prone troops, and just modify them a little, and add on the bazooka, to get that.  I'm considering doing that with some figs I've ordered.

There's one of a guy firing a RR in the Argentine range, IIRC, which would be perfect for this - Code FLA 21 - 90mm RR.

Quote from: Mako on 04 March 2017, 04:28:45 AM
Here's a link to lots of pics of the larger, M20 bazooka:


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=631&q=m20+bazooka&oq=m20+bazooka&gs_l=img.3..0j0i8i30k1j0i24k1.1168.5076.0.5455.11.11.0.0.0.0.149.1194.1j10.11.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.11.1179.aAZVH4ebOTE

As you can see, it can be fired prone as well.

Would love to have a pose option like that, with, or without the bipod, but with the 3.5" bazooka.

You can use existing Falklands Argentine prone troops, and just modify them a little, and add on the bazooka, to get that.  I'm considering doing that with some figs I've ordered.

There's one of a guy firing a RR in the Argentine range, IIRC, which would be perfect for this - Code FLA 21 - 90mm RR.

Thanks Marko !  These shots of the M20 without crew are ideal for Phil to get an understanding of the flimsy trigger guard that the crewman had to hold on to-  no mean feat to steady such a weapon - take aim and fire the rocket.

Yea, it does look a bit wonky.

I suspect the rear shoulder brace helped considerably with the stability, and only a little upward pressure on the firing handle/grip was needed to ensure that the weapon stayed in place.  No doubt, the weight of the projectile in the rear of the tube probably also aided this too.

Hmmm.... Have to admit, as one who knows absolutely frig all........The 'tube' of the bazooka must have been incredibly well balanced......and then...the actual 'shell' had to be inserted into the back....unbalancing the whole thing......(?)

I assume...That firing the shell, would mean it wasn't particularly accurate...unless you were really close to the target ?

Cheers - Phil

All of these early infantry AT weapons, where hugely inaccurate. So you had to be very brave and get close to try to ensure a hit. As you would give your position away when firing due to the back blast.

Tube type A/T weapons fall into two categories. First the rocket type, such as the bazooka and later soviet RPG7, secondly the higher velocity recoilless rifle like the Swedish Carl Gustav or as we knew it- the Charlie G.

The CG has an allegedly recoiless explosion in the chamber that propels the missile. The bazooka has a rocket that is ignited in the chamber.

The latter would tend to have less trauma on the operator.  The pressure waves generated by prolonged close proximity to a Charlie G tube - especially in the prone position  generated their own baptism of sh*t, blood and tears.  (-1)  #:-S

I learn more and more, each day. Thanks, Gents.  :)

Presumably......If you were to fire a bazooka in a prone position......You'd have to be a bit careful that you didn't get a scorched backside, or leg.  X_X

Cheers - Phil.

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/bazooka/bazooka-operation-m1a1.html (http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/bazooka/bazooka-operation-m1a1.html)
(http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/bazooka/pics/bazooka-firing-position-prone-fig10.jpg)
(http://users.skynet.be/jeeper/prone.jpg)

I could only find drawings, so it does seem that it wasn't a favoured pose.

Quote from: Techno on 05 March 2017, 06:04:37 PM
I learn more and more, each day. Thanks, Gents.  :)

Presumably......If you were to fire a bazooka in a prone position......You'd have to be a bit careful that you didn't get a scorched backside, or leg.  X_X

Cheers - Phil.

Can be done - the M20 had that frame which might have been an issue - the real hazard with both types of weapon is the back blast - so it was the No2 who had to watch his arse, leg or more likely ....his ear!

I've seen some photos of them being fired prone.

That's why the M20 has a bipod, which is useless for kneeling or standing and firing.

Of course, it would be of use when firing from foxholes or trenches too.

http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/blog/M20_3-5-inch_rocket_launcher_009_600px.jpg

http://www.koreanwaronline.com/history/oz/OzImage/bazsup.jpg

http://www.koreanwaronline.com/arms/images/35three.jpg

http://modernfirearms.net/userfiles/images/grenade/m20/1301229055.jpg

Online drawings/instructions show that a 30 - 90 degree angle from the weapon being fired is best:

http://www.ctia.com.cn/TungstenNews/UploadFiles_7335/200912/20091206235535245.gif

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/23-25/23250059.gif

Here's a link to some pics of the B-300 bazooka being fired from the prone position too.  Direct link doesn't work for me, but you can see it (currently one row down from the top, at least for me, on the left).  It looks very similar to the M20 bazooka. 

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=631&q=3.5%22+bazooka+firing+prone&oq=3.5%22+bazooka+firing+prone&gs_l=img.3...1772.11686.0.12073.25.14.0.11.0.0.397.1797.4j9j0j1.14.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.13.1672...0j0i24k1.oLjOdsAU5XQ#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=prone+b300+bazooka+&*&imgrc=_&spf=2008

Thanks Rob.

These images are indeed most useful.

The first image intrigues me!  British Battle Dress, 37 patt web, and an American grease gun SMG !
Not the post war late Sten or early Stirling that you would expect.

The key question is the origin of the image.  It looks like a posed training manual set up.

41 Commando Royal Marines used US kit and uniforms in Korea, but if them - why Battle Dress ?
Can't be Aussie as they had the Owen.
Could be Canadian . But was the M3 issued to Canadians ?

I was wondering about that too.

Sometimes, if you click on the link, to the left of the button to increase the size of the photo in Google Images, it will lead you to a page that provides more info.

I honestly don't know who is using it that way, but suspect perhaps it is the Danes, since they apparently wore surplus British uniforms after WWII, and some of their squad leaders, and/or others (?) used SMGs.  

They also had a lot of American weapons too, so that seems like a probable source.

Ah, looks like perhaps I'm wrong, given the Canadian pamphlet (lots of good photos of it in use here as well):

http://regimentalrogue.tripod.com/blog/index.blog/2335550/35inch-rocket-launcher-m20-super-bazooka/

Here's a quote from one of the links at the bottom of the page, on the left:  

"Super-Bazooka can be fired off the shoulder, thanks to the skeletonized shoulder stock attached below the rear part of the barrel, and an optional folding bipod can be fitted to fire weapon from prone, supported position. Some Super-Bazooka launchers were also provided with retractable support monopod, located in front of the shoulder stock".

Finally, here's the link to the Field Manual for the 3.5" Bazooka (it's a free PDF):

http://www.koreanwaronline.com/history/Bazooka/1.pdf

Page 3 of the M20 Field Manual shows photos of the standing, sitting, and prone firing positions. 

The latter is aligned to the weapon like your M72 LAW gunner is (legs about 70+ degrees away from the weapon's barrel axis), so perhaps he might be just modified a bit to make him a M20 3.5" Bazooka Gunner firing from the prone position.

Well sourced Rob!  I have no idea why Canadian Army should pose with M3 Grease Gun.  Although no doubt they held small stocks for training purposes - or indeed joint ventures with US Army ?

Don't don't realise the loader was on that side and had his feet f'ward t'ward the enemy to reload!
Might have to rebase some figures!  :D

I wouldn't bother.  It is a highly exaggerated drill book pose.   In combat the prone firing position would be a lot more concealed - no one - not even a Jock in a kilt - turns his exposed arse on the enemy at close range !  :d

In prone firing of the Charlie G, the No2 faced the same way as the No1 and usually used left hand to support the barrel.   Their bodies would be in a mirror image V
with the 84mm nestling between them.  As a No2 you need to be cognisant if your shot missed/ F/P compromised and you need another position.

Ian can confirm, but I suspect the M20 Bazooka had a similar deployment 

Or it's just the Canuks getting it wrong! ;D

I have the highest respect for our Canadian cousins in terms of their battle skills.  But its the nerds that write manuals and what works/looks good on the firing range.

Absolutely!

Rumour Control has got a tipoff that some images of the North Korean master sculpts might be coming to a screen near you.

We can't start the war without the North Koreans !

Leon, can you wet appetites with a peek at some of Phil's masters ??? =D>

Quote from: Sunray on 01 May 2017, 02:47:04 PM
Leon, can you wet appetites with a peek at some of Phil's masters ??? =D>

As soon as the sculpts arrive with us here, I'll get some photos taken for everyone.

Dammit !!!  >:( >:( >:(

I've lost the piccies that Nobby posted of American troops 'marching' away from the camera.

I feel I've checked all the appropriate threads, but can't find it anywhere.

Any ideas/links, Chaps.

Cheers - Phil.

Sure it wasn't video - in the Youtube thread?

Hmmmm......Don't think it was, Nobby......But I'll go and check that thread out.

I know I lost and found this on a previous occasion.

Ahhhh.....Did I use the word 'Huzzah', in that thread......Gives me something else to search for.
Fingers crossed.

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 15 May 2017, 11:14:09 AM
Hmmmm......Don't think it was, Nobby......But I'll go and check that thread out.

I know I lost and found this on a previous occasion.

Ahhhh.....Did I use the word 'Huzzah', in that thread......Gives me something else to search for.
Fingers crossed.

Cheers - Phil

Phil - try the "help needed" thread , under General/Period discussion "Modern" see Nobby's posting 28/29 January.    James

That's the kiddie, James ! :-bd

Thanks, Matey.  :)

Cheers - Phil

Gentlemen!

I have been on the website of the 10mm producer whose name rhymes with "Spithead". They have flags showing for North and South Korea, but not China.

Have they caught wind of the Dark Lord's scheme and plan to steal a march on his light-absorbing presence?

Have these flags been flying for long? I haven't visited the website for many months.

Yes Nobby. They have been up since the new year. Usual idiosyncratic style of awkward poses.  The first sculpts from Phil must be close to casting !!   

The bounders! How did they get wind of Pendraken's plans?

Quote from: fsn on 21 May 2017, 11:35:48 AM
The bounders! How did they get wind of Pendraken's plans?

The bounder (singular) does not stray far from WW2 - and saw the considerable equipment overlap. But no need to panic Nobby - no alternative Centurions have appeared from that stable. 

Anybody fancy some really wierd looking metal beasts?

(https://i1.wp.com/tanknutdave.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/AMX13tourelleChaffee.jpg)

AMX-13 with Chaffee turret... now, if anyone added the AMX turret to the Chaffee hull...

(http://www.mmowg.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/aJdSr2Y-300x146.jpg)

Like this?

Bonza! Two for two funny tanks. It's a bargain!

Mix up at the repair pool?

Well, the AMX13 does look like it shrank in the wash...

French experiment, in case the 13 turret didn't work......

Yes, the turret had some teething troubles and that got the hull out in combat capable fashion until they were worked through!

Not quite teething problems: the Chaffee turretswere installed on AMX-13 chassis 6 years after the FL10 turret entered service. The French army had loads of Chaffees which were perfectly suited to colonial policing but were getting long in the tooth. Mating their turret with new hulls made the replacement much cheaper.

Ah right, all the stuff I'd read suggested it was due to production issues on the new turret as the chassis was ready well before and they wanted to "road test" it. Didn't know they used the Chaffee turret for so long!

Did they see any action?

Quote from: toxicpixie on 24 May 2017, 08:07:16 AM
Ah right, all the stuff I'd read suggested it was due to production issues on the new turret as the chassis was ready well before and they wanted to "road test" it. Didn't know they used the Chaffee turret for so long!

Did they see any action?

As an Intel Boy, I studied the photograph - there :-
1. the 75mm low velocity gun on the Chaffee was deemed useful

2. The bigger turret allows a command/OP role - the inside of an AMX-13 is very cramped. 

Either way - its a very interesting image  :-

The "in use" photos all looked like Metropolitan France - I'm assuming from the comment they got deployed overseas though!

Having looked inside an AMX13 I can attest for the tinyness of the crew compartment. I ain't tall or weighty and even so I wouldn't want to try squeezing into it in anger :D

Think the A13 might be in Algeria?

Yes, there's quite a lot French colonies that look very like Metropolitan France unless you get a wide view to catch the local sites!

A quick web search suggests they were deployed in Algeria but that's off a model kit box blurb :D

Must admit I thought it was "test only".

150 built and deployed, apparently! The remainder not used up in combat were then brought back and switched to driver training or expended as targets, so I read.

This is all "back of model box"W or "bloke on forums" but the photo's do suggest they were on active deployment over some time :)

The AMX turret on Chaffee hull was apparently a single test vehicle and unsatisfactory enough they junked it...

Shame I much prefer the AMX turret on the Chaffee hull than tuther way round or even to AMX turret on the AMX hull!

Glad I read that before I started gluing some together  ;)

Eh, glue away, I'm sure someone somewhere could be assumed to have bodged it into combat!

Both tanks were big in the "gray market users" area weren't they...

I just ordered a bunch of American tanks and WWII US Marines to begin making an American army. There wasn't much in the changes in American uniforms from WWII to Korea and, at 10mm, you really can't tell the difference. Any one else doing the same?

Phil, Leon and I had a campfire conference on this one.  The real changes in uniform happened in and during the Korean war.

1. The US infantry and Marines began to ditch the anachronistic leg gaiter and blouse the trouser into the boot. You can see this very clearly in images of troops landing at Inchon and images taken later into the assault.

2. Late in the war the US issued the M1951 trouser - it differs from WW2 issue with its large cargo pockets.

Now with many sculptors this would not be an issue, but with Techno's accurate work - he even picked up the knee padding on KPA trousers !- these details will be visible on the 10mm, so a call had to be made.

We decided to go with no gaiter and the earlier trouser. So yes, you can use WW2.

The South Korean figures coming out this summer will add a nice line of Rear Echelon proxy types for WW2.

Do send us some images when you get them based and painted.

I'm currently designing some battalion level rules for the Korean War. If anyone is interested in working with me, I'm open to cooperative work. The goal is to have a fun and 2-3 hour rule set gauged toward 10mm players.

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 23 June 2017, 01:51:56 PM
I'm currently designing some battalion level rules for the Korean War. If anyone is interested in working with me, I'm open to cooperative work. The goal is to have a fun and 2-3 hour rule set gauged toward 10mm players.

First, welcome to the forum.  :)

A PDF for Korean - based on the "revised" BKC - has been mooted.  Indeed on this forum we have discussed topics such as revisions in the existing CWC (Korea) troop values (North Koreans were viewed as superior to Chinese!) and a re-appreciation of the later marks M4 Sherman when pitched against the T-34/85.

Do you envisage your rules to be of the BKC genre?  I have tweaked the BKC II to allow 1960s era Bush wars, and its very playable.

Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here.

I have a copy of BKC from 2009, not even sure which version that is but I've never even got to play it. I was thinking of taking something like FiveCore's Brigade Commander and modifying that. The problem with Korea is the beginning of the war is so different from the end. At the beginning, there were a lot of tank battles but after 1951 the NKs didn't field many tanks because most had been lost or abandoned. Also, at the beginning, the M24 Chaffee (named after my ancestor) was inferior to the T-34/85 but, with some maneuvering, a rear shot or an open hatch shot could score a kill. NKs apparently weren't very skilled at tank warfare because the M24s did manage to take out a few. The up-gunned Shermans and American artillery are really what won the day in the end.

I see the game needing to be divided into 1950/51 and 1952/53 stats. Early NK troops and tanks would be trained and eager whereas by 1952 you have frightened conscripts. Early American troops were trained and disciplined and inflicted lots of casualties but they were certainly caught unprepared and out-numbered. The WWII era bazooka was useless against T34s, as were the old recoilless rifles. They were quickly replaced by Super Bazookas and larger bore recoillesses.

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 24 June 2017, 12:35:35 PM
Thanks for the welcome! Glad to be here.

I have a copy of BKC from 2009, not even sure which version that is but I've never even got to play it. I was thinking of taking something like FiveCore's Brigade Commander and modifying that. The problem with Korea is the beginning of the war is so different from the end. At the beginning, there were a lot of tank battles but after 1951 the NKs didn't field many tanks because most had been lost or abandoned. Also, at the beginning, the M24 Chaffee (named after my ancestor) was inferior to the T-34/85 but, with some maneuvering, a rear shot or an open hatch shot could score a kill. NKs apparently weren't very skilled at tank warfare because the M24s did manage to take out a few. The up-gunned Shermans and American artillery are really what won the day in the end.

I see the game needing to be divided into 1950/51 and 1952/53 stats. Early NK troops and tanks would be trained and eager whereas by 1952 you have frightened conscripts. Early American troops were trained and disciplined and inflicted lots of casualties but they were certainly caught unprepared and out-numbered. The WWII era bazooka was useless against T34s, as were the old recoilless rifles. They were quickly replaced by Super Bazookas and larger bore recoillesses.

You know the period John.  You might enjoy the thread "Korean War update from Rumour Control" - its Page 2 in the Post War (General Wargaming Section).   In researching the war in terms of a game, we revised the status of RoK . The 1st Regiment and the 11th &13th fought with tenacity in their rear guard actions in the retreat south.

So you are a grandson/great grandson of Adna Romanza Junior ? That's a fine pedigree. AD the 1st had a remarkable ACW and Post Bellum career from Private to 3 Star General. AD Junior was a voice in the wilderness - bit like Liddell Hart - in foreseeing the potential of armoured warfare.

I will follow your posts with interest.

Regards

James

Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2017, 02:15:33 AM
You know the period John.  You might enjoy the thread "Korean War update from Rumour Control" - its Page 2 in the Post War (General Wargaming Section).   In researching the war in terms of a game, we revised the status of RoK . The 1st Regiment and the 11th &13th fought with tenacity in their rear guard actions in the retreat south.

So you are a grandson/great grandson of Adna Romanza Junior ? That's a fine pedigree. AD the 1st had a remarkable ACW and Post Bellum career from Private to 3 Star General. AD Junior was a voice in the wilderness - bit like Liddell Hart - in foreseeing the potential of armoured warfare.

I will follow your posts with interest.

Regards

James

Don't know where you got John from, but I'm Jim. lol. I just read that entire thread you directed me to and it directed me back here. Hahahaha!

Good information there though and it seems everyone is doing great research for this. I'm personally hoping to sell off some of my larger figures so I can afford to buy more Korean War stuff from Leon. I'm a teacher and currently doing summer school which pays but doesn't pay well enough to keep up my lead habit without the wife getting mad.

A belated welcome from me as well, Jim.

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: PraetorianJC on 25 June 2017, 03:28:31 AM
Don't know where you got John from, but I'm Jim. lol. I just read that entire thread you directed me to and it directed me back here. Hahahaha!

Good information there though and it seems everyone is doing great research for this. I'm personally hoping to sell off some of my larger figures so I can afford to buy more Korean War stuff from Leon. I'm a teacher and currently doing summer school which pays but doesn't pay well enough to keep up my lead habit without the wife getting mad. :-bd

I took a guess on your name Jim. You are JF, and  a great number of American males born after 1963, with initials JF are John Francis/Fitzgerald.
Apologies.

With all that post war kit sitting on the Pendraken shelf, I am painting up a 1960s Bush War. North & South Coryria is in East Africa, north of Kenya and close to Arab influence.   I am using Pendraken Vietnam Aussies,  Time Cast Cold War, and the new Irregular Miniatures Bush War range.   Rumour Control has heard that the latter hope to add a 106mmRR and a Toyota technical to the mix.  

The Falklands OTO Melara 105mm should be offered with Aussie (Vietnam ) crew.  :-bd

This morning I am painting up and basing a mix of Pendraken WW2 Bush hats & VC RPG7 as Coryrian African Rifles.  WW1 Aussies with Vickers HMG, and and a scratch built ZPU 1 based on 25mm Hotchkiss with an Aussie HMG gunner.

The Soviet backed North Coryia has just acquired Czech Delfin . The good ole boys in "the South" are sourcing a Gloster Meteor.  Rules will be based on BKC with bolt on additions to cover (1) Political developments, (2) Weapon procurement  (3) sourcing expert (mercenary) personnel (not just troops but also experts in aircraft/tank maintenance, all costing points)...and (4) espionage - my scratch built Harry Palmer.  

If you have a shelf packed with 15mm scenery, don't get rid of them.  I have blogged 15mm to 10mm with smaller scale doors/windows. I even have a 25mm resin Stalingrad ruin  which will become a 10mm tower block. A 6mm factory with new Irregular 10mm doors and props became a 10mm railway café.    

Now back to basing . 8)

Quote from: Sunray on 25 June 2017, 08:17:21 AM
I took a guess on your name Jim. You are JF, and  a great number of American males born after 1963, with initials JF are John Francis/Fitzgerald.
Apologies.

No harm!

Techno's new US Korean figures are superb.  He has taken 10mm detail and animation to a new level. (the operation was clearly a success)  :)

Have you been taking some of my nerve blockers, James ?  :D

Cheers - Phil

F Toys gives you this little pack of gum with every model. I have been chewing it.  :'( :'(   

Quote from: Sunray on 29 June 2017, 07:18:43 AM
Techno's new US Korean figures are superb.  He has taken 10mm detail and animation to a new level. (the operation was clearly a success)  :)

Oh, when do the rest of us get to see?  :D

Also, Sunray can you recommend any good histories of the war? I'd probably look at gaming the retreat to the Pusan Perimeter: lots of desperate stands against hordes of KPA troops and tanks.

Could I suggest "The Korean War" by Max Hastings?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Korean-War-Pan-Military-Classics-ebook/dp/B007KA1DEA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1498763632&sr=8-9&keywords=max+hastings  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Korean-War-Pan-Military-Classics-ebook/dp/B007KA1DEA/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1498763632&sr=8-9&keywords=max+hastings)

It's my go-to book for an overview.

I can also recommend Hastings book. 'To the Last Round' by Andrew Salmon about the British stand on the Imjin river is excellent.

Read both of the above recommendations recently and fully endorse both.

Quote from: Gazza on 29 June 2017, 06:24:25 PM
Oh, when do the rest of us get to see?  :D

I'll send the whole lot up to Leon in the next couple of days....When he's got the time to take some better photo's than my rushed shots, I'm sure he'll post them.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

"Triumph at Kapyong" by Dan Bjarnson is about Canadian troops in April 1951.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triumph-Kapyong-Canadas-Pivotal-Battle-ebook/dp/B007OSQ7WQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498804630&sr=1-1&keywords=kapyong (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Triumph-Kapyong-Canadas-Pivotal-Battle-ebook/dp/B007OSQ7WQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498804630&sr=1-1&keywords=kapyong)

"Pork Chop Hill" by SLA Marshall is another classic. Captures the futility of combat just before the cease fire.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Pork-Chop-Hill-S-L-Marshall/0425175057/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498804809&sr=1-1&keywords=pork+chop+hill  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Books/Pork-Chop-Hill-S-L-Marshall/0425175057/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1498804809&sr=1-1&keywords=pork+chop+hill)

Quote from: Gazza on 29 June 2017, 06:24:25 PM
Oh, when do the rest of us get to see?  :D

Also, Sunray can you recommend any good histories of the war? I'd probably look at gaming the retreat to the Pusan Perimeter: lots of desperate stands against hordes of KPA troops and tanks.

The Dark Lord has received the images of the final mock up sculpts.  It is in his power to "post them on the forum" - Go on Leon - cheer up the troops!  ;)

Good histories.  Apart from what has already been mentioned, a few good objective reads out there. The real revision was via NATO when it was appreciated that this was a dress rehearsal for what WP might launch in Europe. So key lessons to be absorbed.  Its these late histories that are most objective.

Bevin Alexander Korea : The first War we lost,   Michael J Varhola Korea; Fire and Ice and Brian Catchpole The Korean War

When I lectured this period, I always recommend the warmovie Tae Guk Gi  - it gives the flavour of the inter-Korean nature of the war.  The RoK's fighting spirit on the retreat is often overlooked.  They fought like tigers. Techno has recognised this in the satchel armed troops - all they had to stop a T34/85.

Thanks for all the advice chaps. I'll probably start with Hasting's book to get an overview of the period. There doesn't seem to be too many in-depth accounts of individual campaigns, or at least for the area I'm looking at (June-August 1950).

Quote from: Gazza on 30 June 2017, 12:37:52 PM
Thanks for all the advice chaps. I'll probably start with Hasting's book to get an overview of the period. There doesn't seem to be too many in-depth accounts of individual campaigns, or at least for the area I'm looking at (June-August 1950).

To be honest this is one subject were good ole Wikipedia does a reasonable job in terms of a good synopsis - and gives good footnotes worth following up.
Osan, Pyongtaek, Chochrwon Chonan, Chonui, and Taejon are all covered with OOBs.

Quote from: Sunray on 30 June 2017, 11:00:13 AM
The Dark Lord has received the images of the final mock up sculpts.  It is in his power to "post them on the forum" - Go on Leon - cheer up the troops!  ;)

:-w

Friend Sunray opens a window on the war for me. I have always concentrated on the Commonwealth because a) they're not Americans and b) they used Centurions. There may be some "home team" bias there as well, for which I don't apologise, for the main reason is that, and I may have said this before, they used Centurions.

There is lots of stuff out there about the US in Korea: I remember being enthralled by the film "Pork Chop Hill" as a child, even though I knew nothing about the war itself. Most people in my experience think M*A*S*H is set in Viet Nam, and go on YouTube and there's hundreds of videos about the US in Korea.

Having said that, the contribution of the South Koreans is limited in most sources to "Yanks wouldn't give them tanks, got hit with walls of T34s, fought bravely but had to retreat in face of overwhelming odds". I realise I know almost nothing about the contribution of the South Koreans after the inital assault.

So, Sunray, could you recommend a readable source of the Korean War from the South Korean point of view?    


1) Yes, I know there were lots of other countries involved
2) Yes, I know the South Koreans didn't use Centurions

No probs Nobby

I have to recommend Pank Sun Yup's  From Pusan to Panmunjon at around £5.  It is a no holes barred account from one of their best soldiers.  Techno based the South Korean officer sculpt on him (helmet, bins, reaching for radio)

I won't spoil it but would love to hear your comments

Cheers

James

Excellent!

Thank you.

Quote from: Techno on 30 June 2017, 05:53:11 AM
I'll send the whole lot up to Leon in the next couple of days....When he's got the time to take some better photo's than my rushed shots, I'm sure he'll post them.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

Do these pics help for thr Brits and Aussies in korea?

http://www.iwm.org.uk/history/25-photographs-of-the-korean-war

Dave

Ta, Dave.

Cheers - Phil

I'll just pop these here for Techno. Brits in Korea 1951
(http://media.britishlegion.org.uk/Media/4912/korean-war-memorial-7046.jpg?width=600&height=608)
(http://media.britishlegion.org.uk/Media/4914/korean-war-memorial-7056.jpg?width=500&height=480)
Are  they wearing puttees?

Thanks, Nobby.

Cheers - Phil

Look like 1914 issue puttees to me.

I would regard these images of the "long" putties as peculiar. Not representative of what was worn by first winter Brits, and I would tender the following explanation.

They remind me of photos I was shown by an old SAS trooper I served with.  He had been a "tree jumper" in 1948-56 Malaya Emergency and long puttees were issued to protect the ankles as they jumped with Irwins into the jungle. The SAS had a maroon beret at this point of their comeback!

Now it was also found that the long style puttee was excellent protection against leeches when knee deep in jungle streams or operations in the notorious Kuala Langat swamp , so were generally issued. This guerrilla war overlapped with Korea, and I have no doubt that when the first British troops arrived in tropical bush gear, some if not all  still had the long Malaya issue puttee.  These would have been useful in waterlogged trench conditions.

I would suggest we stick to (a) short gaiters or (b) long boots with ankle strap (41 Commando)- they have much wider application and proxy value.

Quote from: Leon link=topic=15019.msg217373#msg217373 date=14774282

b]British[/b]
In tropical shirts, long trousers and bush hats (right side folded up)
2 x Advancing with rifle
1 x Standing, firing rifle
1 x Kneeling, firing rifle
1 x Prone, firing rifle
1 x Bren MG, advancing
1 x Bren MG, prone firing
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers
1 x Radio Operator
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x 4.2" mortar with 2 crewmen
1 x Throwing grenade
1 x Casualty

Attached is the provisional list Early Korean war Brits.

Supposing we were to sculpt the shirt outside the trousers and add a mix of berets to the bush hats ?  I ask for two reasons:
First we already have thee bush hat sculpts in the WW2 range- not a great seller ?
Secondly, the beret was worn in the Far East from 1945 onwards and would give an outstanding proxy range.
If you google Commando WW2 far east you get a nice image of Col Young & Co

Quote from: Sunray on 24 September 2017, 12:39:49 PM
Supposing we were to sculpt the shirt outside the trousers and add a mix of berets to the bush hats ? 

Hmmm. Far be it from me to disagree, but I don't see a lot of shirts outside the trousers. I'd prefer to see nicely tucked away shirts. If a choice, I'd prefer berets (or Tam o'shanters)to bush hats - though they would be useful for Aussies. 

Aussies
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ab/15/d8/ab15d87489161e17adf43f34f13df91b--korean-war-british-army.jpg)(https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/awm-media/images/collection/items/ACCNUM_SCREEN/146904.JPG)

Define "early". First units in were the Middlesex Regt and Argyll & Southern Highlanders.

Argyll & Sutherland highlanders 1950
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/67/6c/3b676c15179b0b02787b93cfb81cfd43.jpg)(http://argylls1945to1971.co.uk/Korea-RonSmith.JPG)

Middlesex Regt  Not the same kind of hat as the Aussies at all.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PayFLGOaeNw/maxresdefault.jpg)

(http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/34/84/mid_000000.jpg) One for Techno. Middlesex Regt radio operator, but I don't know the date.

Some images here of Middlesex Rgt in berets and tropic shirts
http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/event/aug-approximately-4-000-british-infantrymen-arrive-in-korea-52262904?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#sergeant-major-interviews-one-of-the-many-volunteers-for-service-in-picture-id2659366 (http://www.gettyimages.co.uk/event/aug-approximately-4-000-british-infantrymen-arrive-in-korea-52262904?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#sergeant-major-interviews-one-of-the-many-volunteers-for-service-in-picture-id2659366)

Shropshire LI? July 51?
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/53/dd/09/53dd097054a503c50cc3969605efaf65.jpg)


For the list ...

3 x Advancing with rifle
1 x NCO
1 x Bren MG, advancing
1 x HMG Vickers with separate loader
2 x Officers with SMGs?
1 x Radio Operator
1 x M20 3.5 bazooka with separate loader
1 x 4.2" mortar with 2 crewmen

Well sourced Nobby.  The first units in from Hong Kong were in  tropical kit.  The Aussies wore/and wear the Campaign hat. Its their national costume.

"Shirts in" is barrack order in the far east.  Shirts out is the slacker order when in combat.  I can show you images of Royal Welch in far east,   shirts wet with sweat/monsoon rain and  open to the waist. 

Its Leon's train set- he sets the parameters - I just don't a costly range of figures that have limited appeal. We currently have three bush hatted figures that will work in WW2 range. Do we want all Korean early war so attired, or a mix with beret that gives options ?

So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?
(http://cfile223.uf.daum.net/image/2527AE3453A2A89B1C7FDB)(https://collection.nam.ac.uk//images/960/119000-119999/119675.jpg)(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-leave-hong-kong-to-fight-in-korea-men-of-the-1st-batt-picture-id613467052)

Sounds good to me. I'll probably mix in some cap comforters too.  :D

(http://argylls1945to1971.co.uk/korea3017.jpg)

A shot from the excellent documentary "A Hill in Korea".
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4144/5173565165_8f484ebe5a_b.jpg)

Image of a Centurion tank being given a drink.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11313402_503591429791693_1876246012_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTAxNDg0MzI5MTIxNTAwMTUzNg%3D%3D.2)

FSN,
Please, it's KSLI. King's Shropshire Light Infantry

Quote from: fsn on 24 September 2017, 07:24:16 PM
Image of a Centurion tank being given a drink.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11313402_503591429791693_1876246012_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTAxNDg0MzI5MTIxNTAwMTUzNg%3D%3D.2)

8^th Hussars still watering the horses perhaps  ;)

Quote from: mad lemmey on 24 September 2017, 09:26:11 PM
FSN,
Please, it’s KSLI. King’s Shropshire Light Infantry

I stand corrected.  =)

Quote from: paulr on 24 September 2017, 11:01:18 PM
8^th Hussars still watering the horses perhaps  ;)

I think that's become one of my favourite Centurion photographs.  :D

So.....

What am I making next ?  :-\

I make it that the 'groups' left are the Brits in tropical kit, and the two lots of the Chinese.
I THINK all the others will be completed by tomorrow.....I've just got the vickers m/g and his loader to do some final tweaks to.

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: fsn on 24 September 2017, 07:24:16 PM
So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?

Yes, the "Digger" slouch hat is a proper hat,  the Brits wore floppy bush hats in the Far East from WW2 to early Korea, when the first units arrived from Hong Kong

On the onset of the first winter they received first, battle dress, ribbed sweaters and leather jerkins.  Then in came the popular hooded smocks & cap comforters, although we do still get berets

By summer of 51, the bush hat was back, and as the second winter approached, the gabardine combat jacket began to be issued - this was to become the M58 that was worn until the 1960s and the advent of DPM.
(http://cfile223.uf.daum.net/image/2527AE3453A2A89B1C7FDB)(https://collection.nam.ac.uk//images/960/119000-119999/119675.jpg)(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-leave-hong-kong-to-fight-in-korea-men-of-the-1st-batt-picture-id613467052)

Sounds good to me. I'll probably mix in some cap comforters too.  :D

(http://argylls1945to1971.co.uk/korea3017.jpg)

A shot from the excellent documentary "A Hill in Korea".
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4144/5173565165_8f484ebe5a_b.jpg)

This is a great image of

Quote from: Techno on 25 September 2017, 09:01:49 AM
So.....

What am I making next ?  :-

I make it that the 'groups' left are the Brits in tropical kit, and the two lots of the Chinese.
I THINK all the others will be completed by tomorrow.....I've just got the vickers m/g and his loader to do some final tweaks to.
:-
Cheers - Phil

Early Brits do need to be done. The options for Leon  :-

(1) Bush hat and shirt tucked in

(2) similar figure with beret & shirt in
             
(3) perhaps a few in woolly pully sweaters with beret ? 

Or, a careful  mix of all three ? (I have opted for the shirt in as - with beret- it could be painted as WW2 battle dress ) Officers perhaps in the beret/SD cap and sweater?  A British officer in a sweater with web & revolver would have a long proxy life in command groups.  When I discussed the figure options with Phil, there was potential in a very British senior officer type for late WW2 & post war. 

And remember we have 4 figures already in WW2 range - 2 riflemen in bush hats, a bren gunner and sten in Digger hats.
I have used them in 1960s era bush war, and I know some have painted them up as French Paras in Indo China

All four are good for Korea !  :-bd

I'll wait for 'da boss' to see what he fancies out of all that lot.  ;)

Quote from: Sunray on 25 September 2017, 09:44:17 AM
When I discussed the figure options with Phil, there was potential in a very British senior officer type for late WW2 & post war. 

He's done...I'll send a piccy up very soon.

Cheers - Phil.

If we keep the wooly sweaters for the officer types, then we can have a mix of hats/berets for the regulars. 

Sounds good to me....I'll do ONE and send a pic so I know I'm on the right lines.

My head's spinning at the moment jumping from '1815' to the Korean War and back again, and finishing off the last two back banners for the Mezoamericans. (They were horrid to do)

(And I haven't finished off that Vickers machine gun yet......That went well wrong.  X_X ~X( X_X ~X( X_X)

Cheers - Mr My Brainhurts.

Quote from: Leon on 25 September 2017, 03:08:33 PM
If we keep the wooly sweaters for the officer types, then we can have a mix of hats/berets for the regulars. 

Executive decision !  :-bd  These will work well.  The Very Senior Officer that Phil is talking about is in SD cap, doublebreasted jeep coat and with a map case - desiged for the autumn/winter of 1950 but  ideal for any BKC/CWC command group from 1944 onwards.

 :) Sounds like a plan.





Why is Techno making Maxim guns for the Aztecs?

I'm not.......They're getting Bren guns.

Cheers - Phil

That image of the Bren Gun carrier struck a cord. It was before my time, but the old & bold talked about it with great affection.

You could just about pack a section + kit on one. Sardine close order. See the image from Nobby. But it was small and nifty and did not attract fire the way bigger APCs tend to do. 

They were well used in Korea.  Was the Kangaroo APC used in Korea ? I have images of the Glosters using Kangaroo's at Warminster SoI after their illustrious Korean tour (they were demo battalion), but nothing to show Korean deployment. 

Mind you the Belgians reinvented the humble "Bren" Carrier as the CATI 90mm - google it !  Yes Marty - I want one +4

Yes, can we have a revamp of the Bren for Korea - perhaps with an empty crew compartment - and torso crew to fit ?

Hi Sunray

Father was with the 7th Hussars BOAR on national Service at the start of Korea and fondly remembers his carrier.

He was a bit miffed that the Centurions destined for the 7th went to the 8th Hussars for their deployment to Korea and hence they were left with very little to face the Russians [M10 and Cromwell] and he never got to drive a Centurion [as he was a Driver/Gunner/Radio operator]

He spent this last 6 months of service driving "his" Carrier all over the Padderborne area of Germany doing navigation/recon training for trainee Officers due to go to Korea.

Inspired by Father I have tried to do early Cold War in several scales but difficult with some of the items availability.

The Pendraken range is finally going to allow his.

.......As that was your first post....Welcome to the forum, Kabrank.  :-h

Cheers - Phil

Hi - and I suspect your auto text has struck - BOAR, should be BAOR.......

Did they not get Comets or Charioteers ?

IanS

Thanks Techno

Been a lurker for a very long time but now decided to put head above parapet!

Thanks for all your great work

Quote from: kabrank on 26 September 2017, 07:38:30 AM
Been a lurker for a very long time but now decided to put head above parapet!

Good man....At least if you've been lurking for a while, you know what sort of lunacy to expect !  ;)

Cheers - Phil

Hi Ian S

Fathers service only extended until about 8 months into Korea [he was one of the National service guys who was "given" a 6 months extension on actual Army pay at the start of the conflict].

All I am aware they had up to the point of him returning to UK were M10 and Cromwell but will check with him and see if he remembers anything heavier turning up.

He dis not get to work with /drive Comet until his post National Service Reserve periods with the London Yeomanry regment.

Kelvin

Phil

And I bring my own rivet counting Tank loving daftness to add!

Hello and welcome.

Quote from: kabrank on 26 September 2017, 07:51:22 AM

And I bring my own rivet counting Tank loving daftness to add!

Welcome! We can't have enough rivet counters I say. Pity though most tanks are welded these days...

Cheers,
Rob

Surely Nobby is enough for anybody ?

Quote from: kabrank on 26 September 2017, 07:20:11 AM
Hi Sunray

Father was with the 7th Hussars BOAR on national Service at the start of Korea and fondly remembers his carrier.

He was a bit miffed that the Centurions destined for the 7th went to the 8th Hussars for their deployment to Korea and hence they were left with very little to face the Russians [M10 and Cromwell] and he never got to drive a Centurion [as he was a Driver/Gunner/Radio operator]

He spent this last 6 months of service driving "his" Carrier all over the Padderborne area of Germany doing navigation/recon training for trainee Officers due to go to Korea.

Inspired by Father I have tried to do early Cold War in several scales but difficult with some of the items availability.

The Pendraken range is finally going to allow his.

Hi Kabrank

Welcome to the forum.  Yes, the Korean war being hot, overshadowed the early Cold War- which is a dream to game- and throws up a lot of interesting kit. Even the Canadian Ram gets a chance of deployment with the Dutch.

Funny Dave was asking me if there was any vehicles we need for Korea, and the idea of a Carrier with various torso sculpts as interchangeable crew was what came to mind. And YES! that Belgian CATI 90mm is a carrier on steroids !  :o

Good to know that Pendraken post war range will enable you to connect with your father's service in the BAOR.  He was probably quartered in Horrocks or Allenbrook ? This was a welcome change from drafty Nissen huts.

Look forward to your posts, images and help in the forum.

Welkome Kabrank.

Nice to see another person who appreciates a nicley formed turret ring.

Question.

Doing the Vickers M/G.....some of the images show a little box linked to the gun. (Not the ammo box).

Is this some sort of 'cooler' for the gun. Do I need to add that to the model ? (Or did the gun not require this after a certain date ?)

Cheers - Phil

It's a steam condenser, there should be a tube connecting to the jacket.....assuming you are talking about the one at the front (on the Rt I think).

IanS

The standard Vickers was water cooled all its operational life.  The only air cooled "Vickers"was the K class - used by RAF and Special Forces, and although made by Vickers was really an LMG 

If you google "Military Factory - Vickers Machine Gun" you will be some very good 360 images

Er no - Vickers Bertier? - competitor to the Bren, and used by the Indian army, very difficult to tell apart from a bren though. The K was a specific aircraft gun for hand operated turrets, not an MG, although it had much more use as a vehicle mount.

Hi All

Thanks for the warm welcome

Nice summary of Vickers K from Wiki [with usual warnings regarding Wiki entries]:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vickers_K_machine_gun

Quote from: ianrs54 on 26 September 2017, 12:36:31 PM
Er no - Vickers Bertier? - competitor to the Bren, and used by the Indian army, very difficult to tell apart from a bren though. The K was a specific aircraft gun for hand operated turrets, not an MG, although it had much more use as a vehicle mount.

The original VB was the direct  ancestor in the VGO or K class design. They share the same working parts/tilted locking breechblock that came off Andre Berthier's drawing board, although the drum magazine and "sawn off smooth external barrel" offer very different optics !
Special Forces chose it not just because it was RAF surplus, but due to high rate of fire and sturdy design.  At 1,200 rpm probably the highest rate of fire amongst any British MG ??   The Royals still had a few in 1950 which is why I flagged it up. The only Indian unit in Korea was medical, so saw no need to mention the VB.  Did the Ishapore gun wallas re bore the VB in 7.62 ? ?  They even had a version of the SMLE Mk in 7.62mm.

The magic of the K design is that its as near as you can get to firing from an open breech in a closed breech design without a fixed firing pin, as the VGO block only went into the lockfire position at the last split second of closing on the chambered round.

One of the Commando figures in Pendraken pack BRF41 is sculpted with a VGO/K class in dismounted action. Forget Rambo, give his base a +1 ! :-bd

Anyway, its all academic now as Phil Von Lewis has just emailed me an image of his Vickers HMG. I only have a plan view, but with regard to detail and proportion, Techno has just set a new industrial standard in 10mm !

Time to start saving for a Korean/ early Cold War battle group !  :)  

 

In answer to your questions, Techno. Yes, please. Add the water can.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/84/7b/67/847b67f9b015c5ed4514e6bc749b901e.jpg)
(http://www.koreanwaronline.com/arms/KWjpg/Vickers1.jpg)(http://www.koreanwaronline.com/arms/KWjpg/VickerA.jpg)

Like this one ... Aussies getting a Vickers ready for action
(http://www.forgottenweapons.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Aussie-Vickers-Korea-10-50.jpg)

On the move ... should you decide to do a different Vickers gun pose  :D
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/e8/a4/73e8a411f5907dbd4de1a4421e9f1056.jpg)

Can already added, Nobby !  :)

Cheers - Phil.

 :D

Excellent. A Vickers Gun without a can is as rare as our local priest Vicar Gunn being seen without a can.

He doesn't have water in his though.

A new Vickers gun sculpt would be welcome - the existing ones look a little squashed.

Quote from: fred. on 26 September 2017, 08:09:53 PM
A new Vickers gun sculpt would be welcome - the existing ones look a little squashed.

I have to say, and ....for the moment .....you have to take my word for it. This sculpt from Phil is the mother of all Vickers.

The Senior British Staff Officer will grace any game's command stand from Western Desert (like a General O'Conner type) to Korea.

The officer in the beret armed only with pistol in belt will star in very game from late WW2 to Falklands  I think I have found my Mad Mike Hoare !  Gone are the days of taking the figure with the bins from Falklands Mortar section and paring off the 58 ammo pouches  to create a senior officer type.

Gamers will model little exquisite command stands just to accommodate them.

Happy days.  :)

Quote from: Sunray on 26 September 2017, 09:19:56 PM
I have to say, and ....for the moment .....you have to take my word for it. This sculpt from Phil is the mother of all Vickers.

It is ??.......But pleased you like it, James.  :)

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 27 September 2017, 07:00:50 AM
It is ??.......But pleased you like it, James.  :)

Cheers - Phil

Indeed- and I can be hard to please as you well know !  :-  Support weapons are a bitch to model as you have balance scale accuracy with exaggeration to detail and the fact that our figures are beefier than 10/12mm would dictate. 

Quote from: fsn on 24 September 2017, 07:24:16 PM
So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?
(http://cfile223.uf.daum.net/image/2527AE3453A2A89B1C7FDB)

OK....Silly question. (No change there then.)

Just doing a quick sculpt as my 'prototype' so I can check with Leon & James for the Brits in tropical kit.

In my notes...It mentions bush hats with the right side folded up.
In the pic above (courtesy of Nobby) it shows the bush hats with the brim pushed up above the left ear.

Is that right (or more normal).....
As the lettering on the bren carrier (?) seems to be correct, I'm working on the basis that the negative hasn't been 'flopped'.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree, and the guys in the carrier aren't Brits ?

To my untutored eye, I take the markings on the vehicle to be American ?....Was it one the Brits 'borrowed' ?

All help gratefully received, as usual.

Cheers - Phil

The UNIVERSAL carrier is British 55ZT74 is it's registration number, and the circle on rt hand mudguard is symbol for the Commonwealth Division. Troops could be British, Canadian, or Australian - all of who served in that division. Note also the 15cwt in the background. The US Army didn't use any carriers, or maybe a few in very small number ( Philippines in 41, bout 30 I think) as they couldn't see a use for them.

Cheers

IanS

PS _ Bren Carriers mostly got left behind in France in 1940.

Quote from: Techno on 27 September 2017, 09:37:48 AM
OK....Silly question. (No change there then.)

Just doing a quick sculpt as my 'prototype' so I can check with Leon & James for the Brits in tropical kit.

In my notes...It mentions bush hats with the right side folded up.
In the pic above (courtesy of Nobby) it shows the bush hats with the brim pushed up above the left ear.

Is that right (or more normal).....
As the lettering on the bren carrier (?) seems to be correct, I'm working on the basis that the negative hasn't been 'flopped'.
Or am I barking up the wrong tree, and the guys in the carrier aren't Brits ?

To my untutored eye, I take the markings on the vehicle to be American ?....Was it one the Brits 'borrowed' ?

All help gratefully received, as usual.

Cheers - Phil

Well spotted Phil.  The bush hat is floppy and can be folded in any number of ways -or not al all - In the Korean era, the images , official histories, and even the Opsprey Men-at-Arms (not always correct!) show the hat folded to the Left.  In the case of the Gloucesters, the famous "back badge" (google it !) was used as a pin to support the fold.  This degree of order suggests the decision and  enforcement of an RSM.  They then to like "uniformity".  Since Korea the dress order for wearing of the hat is a more slack.

It is a utility hat, and I have seen them worn in the bush with right fold, left fold, both sides folded or no folds at all.  But this is Korea, so I would suggest a uniform left fold for the sculpts. The brim is small compared to the 1950s Aussie Digger hat.  If you look at the Aussie and Viet Cong figures in the Vietnam range you will see good examples of a sculptured bush hat in slack order and an idea of its size & scale.

Thing with the bush hat is that you see it with the left side up, the right side up, the front up, everything down.

I'd go one side or no side. DO NOT GO FRONT. That makes then look like someone aged 6. 

Personal preference (and it is personal preference) would be for all down.

Quote from: fsn on 27 September 2017, 11:53:11 AM
Thing with the bush hat is that you see it with the left side up, the right side up, the front up, everything down.

I'd go one side or no side. DO NOT GO FRONT. That makes then look like someone aged 6. 

Personal preference (and it is personal preference) would be for all down.

Thanks Nobby , this   post made me laugh out loud.  I recalled the issue of TCW (tropical combat wear) to my platoon - it was the "new" circa 1979 Safari jacket in DPM and the bush hat still in olive green.  The platoon had a joker (you encourage these characters as they can lift morale)
My old CSM- who had seen it all and them some, made a prophecy "I bet I know how he will wear his bush hat!"

Sure enough the prophecy of the CSM came to pass.  Joker wore it with the front turned up.  :)  He was a good judge of men was my old CSM.

Phil, there were Americans in Korea, putting white stars on your vehicle reduces the chance of 'friendly' fire ;)

Quote from: paulr on 28 September 2017, 12:17:47 AM
Phil, there were Americans in Korea, putting white stars on your vehicle reduces the chance of 'friendly' fire ;)

And the white star (enclosed in a circle on the top sides of vehicles) was an official Allied(SHAEF)  recognition symbol in WW2.

Does anyone know if it was officially - or unofficially -  resurrected for this initial "UN" action?

Or was it just an old faded decal that was left on the vehicle when removed from storage ?  :- 

Thanks for the info, gents !

I'll do them all 'left side up'. Sorry, Nobby.

Paul... =)....... ;D ;D ;D ;D

Cheers - Phil

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/5d/74/8c/5d748ca38950e9fb73fb60b559ec25e6.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ac/d7/39/acd739f184bedfdb46ac8dc5197e0994.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/84/bc/98/84bc984a47176afd8d202166198896b2--military-post-korean-war.jpg)

The evidence would suggest the white star was used at some time, but there's lots of photos without the star.

Quote from: Techno on 28 September 2017, 05:53:24 AM
I'll do them all 'left side up'. Sorry, Nobby.

Wouldn't be allowed in my brigade. "Tuck your shirt in, pull the brim down or I'll have you on jankers so fast you'd overtake Mr Giuseppi Farina on the straight ... and get your hair cut."

He, that pays the piper, says....."Stop playing the sodding air guitar...and make the figures the way I want them."

(As if he would.)

Cheers - Jimmy Page.

Right forum - new task - Korean War artillery with crews.  Seek, load and post !   :-bd :-bd

What, any nation?

Yanks
(https://history.army.mil/photos/Korea/kor1952/SC403717.jpg)(https://www.trumanlibrary.org/photographs/2007-705.jpg)(https://history.army.mil/photos/Korea/kor1950/SC347079.jpg)

Good British chaps (2nd on left with required fag)
(https://collection.nam.ac.uk//images/960/91000-91999/91180.jpg)

(http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/cabinetpapers/images/cabinetpapers/he2a03-bf000365-main.jpg)

Canadians
(http://heritage.christchurchcitylibraries.com/Archives/Pierson/Pages/Pierson-PH-0021.jpg)
(http://www.ipmscanada.com/Korean25PDR.JPG)

New Zealanders (yes, I know you want uniforms, but the kit is interesting too)
(https://www.nzgeo.com/wp-content/uploads/1970/01/57_KoreanWar_16-600x394.jpg)
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/NZ_artillery_25_pounder_Korea_1951_%28AWM_HOBJ2238%29.jpg)https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/kiwis-in-korea-when-the-cold-war-ran-hot/ (https://www.nzgeo.com/stories/kiwis-in-korea-when-the-cold-war-ran-hot/)

Royal Artillery
(http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/34/200/large_000000.jpg)

Hat brim all down.  >:(
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/50/b3/e8/50b3e8a0dd66137d10e551d0f3b8d274.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/51/3e/99/513e99b42f2c20c2c836470b02900980--korean-war-is-being.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c0/d5/a9/c0d5a95f3255707db09e6bee4e57b94a--military-photos-military-history.jpg)

Not artillery RUR, but a useful pic
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/19/e7/95/19e795ecc60b4eb2d7cfbdf81fa2bfb3.jpg)

More Yanks ... with a huge 8" weapon
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/38/48/fa/3848fa7e2cf50819e36f68396591c4fb.jpg)

Leatherneck rocketeers
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/73/15/7f/73157f34fd24a43cbb4d49f343e0e741--korean-war-marine-corps.jpg)

Googled "85mm D-44 korean" ... got this  :(
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1U3pVi6oIL1JjSZFyq6zFBpXap/2017-New-Women-Brassiere-Plus-Size-90-95-100-font-b-D-b-font-Full-font.jpg)

Aussies with prisoners ... interesting roundel on jeep
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/40/fa/a9/40faa9829482e84fcf24883f0dcf253b--korean-war-vietnam.jpg)

Going back to another question ... Centurions all with white stars.
(http://i423.photobucket.com/albums/pp320/29ToyA/Research%20Armor%20photos%201/Centurion/UKcentkorea01.jpg)

South Korea AT gun
(https://i0.wp.com/www.defensemedianetwork.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Korean-Army-Evacuation.jpg?fit=1280%2C878&ssl=1)

(http://i0.wp.com/weheartvintage.co/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Marilyn_Monroe_-_1954.jpg?resize=550%2C427)
Artillerymen in the 3rd row.

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/03/08/article-2112277-1212CD0F000005DC-174_634x406.jpg)
It it just me, or do these chaps look very bored?

Great stuff Nobby. Thank you for taking the trouble to source them.   

  Gunners work hard with the upper body to "serve " a  gun.  Berets and woolly pullys would do well for the Brits.

The images of Canadian 25pdr being towed by American manufactured lorries are informative.   

We have a few gunners in WW2 and US Marine range that can proxy. 

We will need KPA and South Korean gunners.  Although I am cognisant that KPA left artillery north of the Yalu River in the opening invasion, gamers will at some point demand them. The SU-76 will need a KPA crew.
South Korean gunners in a field cap, could proxy for Canadians and many post war crews. 

PLA
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/41/69/a8/4169a8e000eb10c7a3476af0360d0abb.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/1b/64/7a/1b647a5a9c4af81c88473d6485f6b7b1.jpg)

ROK 75mm Pack
(https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/voEAAOSwWEpZd~O4/s-l225.jpg)(https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/~6AAAOSwBw1ZdV~L/s-l225.jpg)

You could do some in trousers and boots - no shirt or hat and they would serve for just about everyone.  :D

I've just found this site with a list of all the artillery used in the war, we'll just need to assign these to the various nations: https://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/korean-war-artillery.asp

The ZPU series of AAA would be mighty to have included in the Korean range.  They would proxy well into the 1980s in all sorts of bush wars with Soviet/WP clients.

Hi Leon

Its missing quite a few pieces doesn't have the 6pdr(M57) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordnance_QF_6-pounder or some of the SP guns

Thanks for finding all those reference piccies, Nobby !  :) :-bd

I was about to thank you last night, when EE played silly sods again.
(One of my absolute pet peeves.....Log in to the forum....Visit 'unread posts since your last visit'....Then the internet 'fails'.... Making it damn hard to find what I've missed without going through pages and pages of 'the most recent posts !'....I'll just have to catch up slowly.) >:(

Cheers - Phil

That artillery list - NO 25pdr, used in large numbers. Also don't think many if any 17pdr were sent. No US RCL's shown. Overall not a good reference.


IanS

Ian' s on the money.  8)

I have seen images of 25prds (Brit & Commonwealth) I may have seen British 6pdrs ?  No 17pdrs as yet .

The list seems to annotate what was around in 1950-53, but like the Comet may not have been deployed to the warzone.

Sorry definitely no Comets, we used Cents, a small number of Cromwells (rgt recce Troop), and the first squadron there was equipped with Churchill VII Crocodiles, WITHOUT flame trailers. I suspect the 17pdrs weren't sent, the super Bazooka and Cents thought to be sufficient to deal with any armour threats. BAT was also possible, but again I don't think any went.


IanS

Quote from: ianrs54 on 30 September 2017, 02:59:19 PM
Sorry definitely no Comets, we used Cents, a small number of Cromwells (rgt recce Troop), and the first squadron there was equipped with Churchill VII Crocodiles, WITHOUT flame trailers. I suspect the 17pdrs weren't sent, the super Bazooka and Cents thought to be sufficient to deal with any armour threats. BAT was also possible, but again I don't think any went.


IanS

Ummm.  Which is the point I was making.  8)  Read what I posted.

A lot of these "army lists" annotate what was available/issued in 1950-53 but that does NOT mean they were actually deployed in the theatre.  8 :)  I cited the Comet as a classical example  - it even appeared in - was it CWC Korea OOBs  ?

I would stick to (a) sourced images that can be identified as Korean War (b) primary source reports and well researched histories.
The BAT ? Don't think so. It was never mentioned at Warminster as being deployed in Korea- and instructors always were keen to stress any live firing a weapon had.

Quote from: Techno on 30 September 2017, 07:21:03 AM
Thanks for finding all those reference piccies, Nobby !  :) :-bd

I was about to thank you last night, when EE played silly sods again.
(One of my absolute pet peeves.....Log in to the forum....Visit 'unread posts since your last visit'....Then the internet 'fails'.... Making it damn hard to find what I've missed without going through pages and pages of 'the most recent posts !'....I'll just have to catch up slowly.) >:(

Cheers - Phil

Phil, have you noticed the following text in the topic area "No unread topics found since your last visit. Click here to try all unread topics. "
If you click on the link and it gives you all that are currently unread... all in one place, though it does sometimes seem to miss a few for reasons I haven't fathomed yet

Hopefully I'm pointing out something you've missed and not trying to describe something you already know about

I'll give that a whirl, next time EE plays silly sods.

Thanks, Paul.

Cheers - Phil.

Quote from: Techno on 01 October 2017, 06:15:53 AM
I'll give that a whirl, next time EE plays silly sods.

Thanks, Paul.

Cheers - Phil.

Hi Phil
Your up early, full day casting for me and more!!!!! on the gun crews I would like to do new sets for the different nations this will be summer and winter kits.

Dave

Sounds fine to me, Dave.

The more the merrier.  ;)

Early ?.......I've started work at just past 5 in the morning before.....This morning was a lie in.

Cheers - Phil

Right the Pye Wireless Set No 62 or WS62 .  Post any and all images of it being backpacked . We need a decent pose.  :-bd

Yes...Hurry up.

I've looked at some pictures and I'm confused already.

There's an image of an NCO who appears to be fiddling with 'dials' (whatever) on the back of the unit.....Yet other images of the radio 'free standing' (or on a table) look like all the 'gubbins' is on the top.

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 03 October 2017, 01:15:32 PM
Yes...Hurry up.

I've looked at some pictures and I'm confused already.

There's an image of an NCO who appears to be fiddling with 'dials' (whatever) on the back of the unit.....Yet other images of the radio 'free standing' (or on a table) look like all the 'gubbins' is on the top.

Cheers - Phil

I knew the Larkspur A13 & the Clansman RT352. I would hazard a guess that on the back pack version the dials would be on the side (to avoid rainwater etc)  Mind you they were usually mounted on shelves or racks, so dials faced the seated operator.  

Did the Larkspur miss Korea ? It would be most unlikely that it was there for 1950.

Right !! found the image you are talking about on the PA3ECT site. Its the same radio Phil.  The one on the back of the front soldier is carried sideways with its base next to the soldier's back!

The second soldier packs his WS62 in the conventional manner.  Its the early model wartime WS that was manportable, but had to usually unslung to be operated. The soldiers in the image have cracked the challenge?

Think they were still using the WWII kit. That was even worse than the Larkspur stuff. From memory the A41 was controlled from knobs on top. B series sets were fitted with dials on the front. The A40 had fixed frequencies, and fell apart when I carried it. Somewhere round here I have some articles on British WWII radio gear, could scan and send over if wanted.

(https://i0.wp.com/www.pa3ect.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/WS62manpack1.jpg)

(https://i2.wp.com/www.pa3ect.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/WS-62-3.JPG-for-web-large-11.jpg)

Knew this one would come in useful
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/77/0c/24/770c2496f7d9c9948cf79ba3fed3fda1--korean-war-krieg.jpg)

Dunno about the type of radio ... but that and a Bren gun? The man's a hero!
(http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205190063)

For some detailed ppictures:
https://www.pa3esy.nl/military/gb/army/WS-62/html/ws62_set.html (https://www.pa3esy.nl/military/gb/army/WS-62/html/ws62_set.html)


Not a radio ... but interesting
(http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48220000/jpg/_48220124_48219400.jpg)

Quote from: fsn on 03 October 2017, 04:24:22 PM
(https://i0.wp.com/www.pa3ect.eu/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/WS62manpack1.jpg)

Thanks Nobby ! This image of the two operators. This  is the WS62. Base next the back of soldier No1  on RIGHT.  Soldier No2  on LEFT has it conventionally mounted.

This means that Soldier No 1 has to unsling the radio to operate it. He cannot operate the radio himself in the mode he is carrying it.
However, another operator or NCO/Officer could and did operate the WS62 if carried in this mode.

Yeah....OK.....I think I've got that, now.

Looks a bit odd, in that case....But that's how I'll make it.

Ta - Phil.

Quote from: Techno on 03 October 2017, 06:18:49 PM
Yeah....OK.....I think I've got that, now.

Looks a bit odd, in that case....But that's how I'll make it.

Ta - Phil.

Yeah -its a transitional time for backpack radio.  You could :-
A. Sculpt it as depicted - would take two operators - or sculpt the officer/NCO on the handset ?
B.  Have it on the ground being used conventionally- and create a WW2 proxy?

Sorry, put the comment in, but not the piccy.

This is the radio operator with Bren.
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/20/ee/fc20ee54e365ab58d83157cfd305d6a7--korean-war-civil-wars.jpg)

Is that an Infra Red searchlight on this Centurion?
(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/d9/47/b9/d947b9233b17e3a03067d12e47ce17dd--korean-war-trauma.jpg)

Quote from: Sunray on 03 October 2017, 07:37:00 PM
Yeah -its a transitional time for backpack radio.  You could :-
A. Sculpt it as depicted - would take two operators - or sculpt the officer/NCO on the handset ?
B.  Have it on the ground being used conventionally- and create a WW2 proxy?

A for me, with the officer on the handset.

But for B )

There are a worryingly large number of photos of the radio itself .... I think there might be radio enthusiasts!
(http://www.duxfordradiosociety.org/display/jun4-2006_0030-1024p.jpg)
(If Techno makes this, and includes the table, I shall personally replace all his Cream CDs with ... cream.)

This I think would be the best reference for B)
(http://www.royalsignals.org.uk/photos/keespa7amws62.jpg)

(https://collection.nam.ac.uk//images/960/97000-97999/97911.jpg)

Is this one prepared as a backpack?
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/2320/DSC09718.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/2320/DSC09717.JPG)
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/files.qrz.com/c/f4vsc/ws38_4.jpg)
http://foro.aacvm.com.ar/viewtopic.php?t=645 (http://foro.aacvm.com.ar/viewtopic.php?t=645)

Awfully good short intro to all kind of Royal Signals stuff
(http://www.henderson-tele.com/royal-signals/)

Quote from: ianrs54 on 03 October 2017, 04:22:54 PM
Think they were still using the WWII kit. That was even worse than the Larkspur stuff. From memory the A41 was controlled from knobs on top. B series sets were fitted with dials on the front. The A40 had fixed frequencies, and fell apart when I carried it. Somewhere round here I have some articles on British WWII radio gear, could scan and send over if wanted.

Thanks, Ian, but I think from those images above, I've got a much clearer picture in my mind of how it works.
Should be able to crack on with that now.

Strangely enough, it's the two 'modern' radio enthusiasts, sitting at the table who have helped make 'the penny drop.'

Leon's only mentioned a radio op....But I'll check and see if he'd like me to do a separate figure.

(That must be one of the only dogs in the world with his own radio.) ;)

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 04 October 2017, 06:14:15 AM
(That must be one of the only dogs in the world with his own radio.) ;)

I did find a comprehensive source for animal packing the No 62. I assumed though, it was a horse or mule. Perhaps I was wrong, and Fido there is "animal no 3".  :P

There are plenty of pics of the set itself, with and without covers. I think I could also send you wiring diagrams if you really want them ... but blokes lugging them about on their backs? Rare as viable North Korean T34s afterthe Hussars have moved in. 

On the Centurion - that would be a white light for Korea. They were fitted for night illumination in a local position, and frequently got destroyed. IR searchlights didn't appear till the mid/late 60's, on the mk 11, 12 or 13.

IanS

Ah! I thought the Centurion, being a masterful and innovative beast that it was, may have been issued experimentally with an IR searchlight.

Didn't the Germans mount one on a Panther?

To be strictly accurate no, the Panthers had an infra-red viewer with a range of roughly 500m - the searchlight was on a 251/?? with a range of 1000m or there abouts. It also had a very limited field of view.




IanS

Quote from: Techno on 04 October 2017, 06:14:15 AM

Leon's only mentioned a radio op....But I'll check and see if he'd like me to do a separate figure.

Cheers - Phil

You have clearance from Leon for two officers.  One in bush hat being the field rank.   What about the other being very senior staff officer in tropical gear -  safari type 4 pocket single breasted jacket - shirt over jacket lapels, , Webley .38 on belt, SD peaked cap with binos - in the same dolly pose as the South Korean Senior rank.....with radio operator ?

Worth a hell of a lot of proxy applications !  :-bd

But its Leon's train set - his call

James

Quote from: fsn on 24 September 2017, 07:24:16 PM
http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-leave-hong-kong-to-fight-in-korea-men-of-the-1st-batt-picture-id613467052[/img]

Ok, the officer front and centre.  Might have been No6 ( ?) dress tropical circa 1950s. Very popular throughout Commonwealth well into the 70s as a working dress as opposed to No2s - although the SD cap is from the No2.

Now would a figure in that uniform  - in conjunction with R/O - find a lot of command bases on a wargames table ? circa 1945- 70s (bushwars etc). 

Think you chopped off a bit too much of the link ...
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-leave-hong-kong-to-fight-in-korea-men-of-the-1st-batt-picture-id613467052)

Thanks Nobby.  Your diligence in sourcing and posting is appreciated.  :)

I have to report from the coal face that Phil's sculpting of the early war Brits is superb.

I was going to give this sub range a bye - and major on the Royal Marines

However, having seen these masterpieces emerging, I am ...tempted.  ^#(^ 


Especially as one proxy is early Israeli infantry (circa 1956) - if you want to convert the Mk IV Enfield to a Czech Mauser, which is not a challenge in 10mm.

My last big family game left me with a river/canal ,bridges,  shanty town , docks and airfield -  sounds like Suez. - or  a proxy based on that.    A little earlier -say 1950 - in an Arab kingdom.   

I've taken the officer's gaiters of, now, James.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

Quote from: Techno on 06 October 2017, 10:23:22 AM
I've taken the officer's gaiters of, now, James.  ;)

Cheers - Phil

Yes, a lot more comfortable when you are inside beside the fire.  But full marks for wearing them for 24 hours.  Hope they haven't chaffed the ankles too much. 

The lengths you go for realism in sculpting a figure knows no bounds.   I am going to call that officer "Philip". 

Techno - we salute you.  :-bd

Ok, lets get in the 2Rep mode.  Phil needs images of French Foreign Legion style French beret.  Images that reflect the distinct Left hand pull that leaves the badge over the right eye- or in the case of the Legion - over the right ear.

This will be a distinctive command sculpt that Phil does so well, US Korea era uniform.

Korea apart - how may proxy wars can this figure feature on?   Thanks Leon - good call.   I already call this figure "Steiner"  :-bd

So, go on,  hunt up for Techno a few good images that will inspire a historic sculpt. 

(http://img.xooimage.com/files48/8/b/5/beret_20-8a5162.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/35/bc/ce/35bcceffe97f08eb888615ecefad8178.jpg)

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/0d/dd/65/0ddd653e42df8d828fff9e53dba4d6b8.jpg)

and a video

https://youtu.be/LOI1oLA39Yo (https://youtu.be/LOI1oLA39Yo)

Thanks, Vic !

Cheers - Phil

 +1 Vic !  Like  all Berets they began to shrink in size around 1960.  I do like the last image.   Is that de Castries ?

Quote from: Sunray on 23 November 2017, 06:57:50 AM
(...)   Is that de Castries ?

General Bigeard !

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard)
in english :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard)

Quote from: ronan on 23 November 2017, 06:19:17 PM
General Bigeard !

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard)
in english :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcel_Bigeard)

That's him.  Here lies a soldier of France

Right, Gang........

I'm ready to start making the final 'mob' for the Korean War.

(The final 2 'mobs' really.  ;))

These are (A) the 'Chinese in tunic and soft cap'.....

And (B ) the 'Chinese in winter weather gear....

I'm happy about the references for the winter gear chaps at the very beginning of this thread.....But I'm not sure if there are any pictured in the tunic and soft cap ?
(There may be, but I'm not convinced I might not be looking at North Korean soldiers.)

Anyone got the time to post any piccies (or links) so I can check the uniform ?......Pretty please. (Nobby...This means you, probably. ;))

I'll do the usual.....Make one or two of the figures...Take piccies, then get James, Leon & Nobby to give them the once over, so I know I'm on the right lines.
All the dollies for the first lot are already stuck firmly to corks with Green Stuff.....So I'm ready to forge ahead......And go faster than I have been for the past few months, so I can get the WHOLE lot up to Leon more quickly than I was originally intending.

Cheers - Phil

Phil

My contribution of images should be in your in tray.

The Chinese had an eclectic and exotic mix of captured weapons, unlike the N Koreans who were a Soviet client state.

Thus you find Japanese rifles, Model 92 HMGs and ex-Nat Thompsons being used.

The CPLA still used bugles for battlefield comms, so you need at least one such figure.

The Plastic Soldier Review gives some good images of the IMEX range in summer gear. The initial winter dress was the classical padded jackets with external quilting, but by winter 52, the padding was internal, so it looked a bulker version on summer dress.

A few images of Senior officers in winter gear would be most useful.

Regards

James 

Got'em both James !

Very, very useful.

Many thanks !  :)

Cheers - Phil

1950 Winter
(http://cdn.history.com/sites/2/2014/01/first-chinese-communist-troops-captured-P.jpeg)img]https://i.pinimg.com/736x/c8/9c/c2/c89cc2c12f8123fb36d8217a559efa25--rice-bags-the-rice.jpg[/img]

1952 Winter
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/26/Battle_of_Triangle_Hill_Chinese_Infantrymen.jpg)


(https://www.nato.int/ebookshop/video/declassified/doc_files/Sans%20titre-1.jpg)

Several interesting pics here
http://poisonpage.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-korean-war-1950-53-some-rare-images.html (http://poisonpage.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/the-korean-war-1950-53-some-rare-images.html)
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=384209 (http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=384209)

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/f4/58/db/f458dbde7ee466dafbf5f1a1ad7fbe7d.jpg)


Not yer typical Mao Cap.
(http://www.ww2incolor.com/d/400024-6/chiallies1)(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/cf/f7/20/cff7204e3e720ad7ea322347c9007cfa--army-soldier-korean-war.jpg)

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/chuckrobilio/korean-war-combatants/?lp=true (https://www.pinterest.co.uk/chuckrobilio/korean-war-combatants/?lp=true)

Very useful - thanks Nobby  :-bd

There's not a lot of quality or quality


Winter uniform 1951


Parade 1950
(http://www.chinesetimeschool.com/Portals/2/cms/images/201509/635768260321329808.png)


(https://i.pinimg.com/474x/cd/4f/1b/cd4f1bc0af4e0d2ae8b31942e5bc5987--korean-war-krieg.jpg)(https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/1295018.main_image.jpg?strip=all[/img[img]https://johnreisinger.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/0963b58c3ea9e18dd5ee418b6b60b10d.jpg?w=267&h=461)

Not sure about this one
(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/e5/91/c4/e591c44a61d6a37022d38ce8218aaa21.jpg)

1953 celebrations
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-news-photo/183976993?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-peoples-picture-id183976993 (https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-news-photo/183976993?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-peoples-picture-id183976993)
https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-news-photo/183976994?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-peoples-picture-id183976994 (https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/news-photo/korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-news-photo/183976994?esource=SEO_GIS_CDN_Redirect#korean-war-units-of-the-korean-peoples-army-and-the-chinese-peoples-picture-id183976994)


Could we have some of these too?  :D I know it's 70 year out of time, but Id only need one pose.  :D  They'd be great fun to paint.
(https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UJNgw5zciUo/Vu0V1liZkWI/AAAAAAAAE3g/TMDkKzRG7wQK_DiTYHYkfe1beNYpBf3dg/s640/Why-Chinese-Female-Soldiers-Can-Rock-Any-Parade-1.jpg)

Thanks, Nobby !!  :-bd

(And for the 'mail).

Cheers - Phil

Yes,  that canny lad Leon has stretched the budget to include some heavy weapon crew for mortars.  :-bd

Unfortunately Phil and I have deleted our images of uniform detail on our PCs.

Need help with images of classical South Koreans, British in early war tropical kit and winter kit (smock ) and Commandos in US kit

I am sure some of these must be logged in the Forum old post archives - if anyone is kind enough and up for a challenge ?  :)

Many thanks !

James

   

Yes.....HELP !

I CAN (sort of) see the piccies of the greens that are already done.....But I can't really make out where things like pockets are situated......Unfortunately some of those haven't gone into the mould yet.....So I can't expect Leon to send me them back (Or send me castings, which would help).....So if any kind soul has any ref piccies, they'd be gratefully received.

Cheers - Phil

Right, Commando US gear is up on Commando thread - that will get you started Phil

Quote from: fsn on 24 September 2017, 07:24:16 PM
So we're talking bush hat - not slouch hat? i.e. like this?
(http://cfile223.uf.daum.net/image/2527AE3453A2A89B1C7FDB)(https://collection.nam.ac.uk//images/960/119000-119999/119675.jpg)(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-leave-hong-kong-to-fight-in-korea-men-of-the-1st-batt-picture-id613467052)

Sounds good to me. I'll probably mix in some cap comforters too.  :D

(http://argylls1945to1971.co.uk/korea3017.jpg)

A shot from the excellent documentary "A Hill in Korea".
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4144/5173565165_8f484ebe5a_b.jpg)

Image of a Centurion tank being given a drink.
(https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11313402_503591429791693_1876246012_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=MTAxNDg0MzI5MTIxNTAwMTUzNg%3D%3D.2)

Early war Brits for Techno

Hey ... wait a minute ...  :-\

No worries Nobby,  Phil is keen to get started and finish the Korean range.  These images you sourced earlier were easy to post, and let him crack on.

The Brits in 1950 winter smock -  and South Koreans in cap, are still outstanding.

Cheers

James

Hello,

I'm finally getting ready to order Korean War Chinese.   Hurra!!

I was looking over the winter kit for the Chinese and noticed that there wasn't any LMG or MG shown like there is for the summer uniform.  Did I miss something??  Additionally are there any figures with the PTRD41 ATR rifle??

Thanks

We'll be looking at some more additions further down the line to add more options like those, not sure on timescales though.  It'll all depend on the sales really and how much interest there is.

New to forum, not really a modeller but interested in most things Military, have a a few WW2 motorcycles, also interested in military radio, post #293 the operator with Bren gun, the radio is a A530,it comes in two parts, transmitter and Receiver, it's carried in two specially made pouches that locate on standard Patt 37 webbing.
The radio was HF.

Quote from: bigduke6 on 18 December 2023, 09:54:00 PMNew to forum, not really a modeller but interested in most things Military, have a a few WW2 motorcycles, also interested in military radio, post #293 the operator with Bren gun, the radio is a A530,it comes in two parts, transmitter and Receiver, it's carried in two specially made pouches that locate on standard Patt 37 webbing.
The radio was HF.

Thanks for the info and welcome to the Forum!

Likewise welcome