Bluestone 42

[fsn]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Naval Officers, Navel Officers (you know who you are) and associated hangers on.

Last night saw the final two episodes of Bluestone 42 series 2. For those of you who are unaware of the program, it is a comedy based around a British bomb disposal unit in Afghanistan. It is also, in my humble opinion, the funniest thing on TV at the moment. This opinion is shared by my son who is currently active with the RA.

I found myself as the credits rolled at the end of the final episode thinking "that would be a great scenario", and visualising what would be needed to stage a Bluestone 42 game.

This worries me.

I have always eschewed current conflicts. I'm just about comfortable with wargaming the Falklands, but (and we have talked of this before) I have a taste block on anything more recent. Now a BBC comedy program has apparently changed my view. Has Bluestone 42 changed my view of a pretty nasty little conflict so that I can see it as light entertainment? In later years will Afghanistan through the lens of Bluestone 42 as the dark days of 1940 were, in the public conscience, populated by buffoons in uniform as depicted in "Dad's Army"?

Or am I overthinking the whole thing?

   

[petercooman]

I would say, don't overthink it.

It's better to remember something, even if it is by a tribute in the form of comedy, than to not remember at all.

War is hell, we game it, but we don't endorse it!

[get2grips]

War is hell, we game it, but we don't endorse it!

Agreed

FSN, your posts may be borderline insane but they are never disrespectful or ill meant and, therefore, I don't see how your games would be either; I say go for it!

[Fenton]

I dont think there would bw anything wrong in doing a scenario

Would you feel uncomfortable doing WW2 or Korea or the Falklands? as people are still alive that fought in those conflicts

I think like all games its the type of scenario thats run not the overall conflict no matter how recent that is important

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Myself, thinking about it, I would now; but up to last year I would not have. I wouldn't then because I know guys who were out there. Give it time and I would be more comfortable. However, after 30 years my mates who served in the Falklands are happy to talk about it, as were WWII verts.

[Nosher]

I've never really got the whole 'immoral to wargame this conflict or that conflict' thing. I served tours in NI and have wargamed civil disorder riots and patrol type games set during that conflict. I served in Bosnia and have created force lists for CWC which i gamed frequently. I spent some time in Iraq during the 1st Gulf War and have wargamed Iran/Iraq wars.

I'm a little too young to have served in the Falklands but have gamed that conflict and still do.

I started wargaming in the 70's barely 30 years after the end of WW2 and WW2 is and remains my staple interest. I gamed Vietnam in the 90's less than 20 years after the conflict ended.

Does the hobby glorify war? I think it starts becoming immoral when players dress up in SS uniform and start flicking nazi salutes at each other or when self professed 'wargaming historians' have a slewed vision on histories events that borderlines on unhealthy....

I can understand how others might be uncomfortable with it but Ive still to meet an ex serviceman that wargames who thinks the hobby glorifies war

Just my tuppence worth

[fsn]

Interesting. We have talked before on the "what is acceptable?" question.

The pondering point for me is the change that watching B42 has made in me. Perhaps with an end date on the conflict and its sheer longevity, I'm acclimatised to it, and that is what is worrying. We are war gamers, with the accent on the "game", but I think we do a disservice to those we represent if we forget what they went through, are going through.

I'm probably not making sense. I'm conflicted. It's like accidentally drinking Blue Bols and thinking "that's nice", or admiring the rear of a female who turns out to be a relative, or looking froward to watching Jeremy Kyle. 

[Techno]

Think I know exactly where you're coming from fsn.

You start arguing with yourself, don't you ?....Why do I find this acceptable.....But not that ?......Where's the cut off point ?....Very strange. 
Cheers - Phil

[paulr]

Interesting. We have talked before on the "what is acceptable?" question.

The pondering point for me is the change that watching B42 has made in me. Perhaps with an end date on the conflict and its sheer longevity, I'm acclimatised to it, and that is what is worrying. We are war gamers, with the accent on the "game", but I think we do a disservice to those we represent if we forget what they went through, are going through.

Thought provoking indeed. I wonder if Bluestone 42 itself would have been an acceptable program 2 or 3 years ago? I suspect the key is that there is now an end date

I've never really got the whole 'immoral to wargame this conflict or that conflict' thing. I served tours in NI and have wargamed civil disorder riots and patrol type games set during that conflict. I served in Bosnia and have created force lists for CWC which i gamed frequently. I spent some time in Iraq during the 1st Gulf War and have wargamed Iran/Iraq wars.
...
I can understand how others might be uncomfortable with it but Ive still to meet an ex serviceman that wargames who thinks the hobby glorifies war

Just my tuppence worth

You  have paid much more than tuppence. Your service earns you the right to game those periods. To me some time must pass before I would feel comfortable gaming them particularly in a public forum. This is at least partly influenced by the potential reaction of the 'ignorant' public. As you say servicemen and women understand that our hobby does not glorify war

[fsn]

I'm pleased that we (the slugs on the Pendraken lettuce) find it important to have the debate.

I think that I would be gaming Bluestone 42, not the Afghan conflict. I have decided not to pursue my thought. Perhaps in another few years.

I am also mildly amused that the thread below this one is "Anyone got any 20mm Afghans/British".

[petercooman]

Maybe a little of a shocker, but to anyone that thinks wargaming glorifies war:

Choose one soldier at random in your force. That soldier is you. Play a few games. Make it a mini campaign. See if 'you' would survive. You'de be surprised of your thoughts if 'your model' gets removed as a casualty. Really shows you how that you just have to have luck on your side.

I don't know if you understand what i mean. I don't know how to 'really' word my point in English.

When i game and i lose a soldier/unit , i can't help myself to think that in real war, those would be men that won't return home, maybe have wives/ children etc...

I find it a very sobering experience, and really makes you see the pointlessness of armed conflict.

Again please don't take it in a bad way, I'm pretty tired and i hope what i mean is carried over by the way i type it...

[paulr]

Maybe a little of a shocker, but to anyone that thinks wargaming glorifies war:

Choose one soldier at random in your force. That soldier is you. Play a few games. Make it a mini campaign. See if 'you' would survive. You'de be surprised of your thoughts if 'your model' gets removed as a casualty. Really shows you how that you just have to have luck on your side.

Makes perfect sense to me Peter, when my son plays Flames of war with a company from his Grandfather's Battalion I remind him to "be careful with that infantry or you may get your grandfather killed".

Also remember a newish gamers reaction in his first skirmish game, he was a Para subaltern, lead his men out of building ... German sniper hit him in the head  no there are no saving throws, game over for you

Have just watched trailer and first episode of Series 1 of Bluestone 4 on youtube, will definitely be watching more. Thanks for the recommendation FSN.

Loved the quote from the trailer, "We should have stuck to what we know and invaded France" 

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Series 1 arrived on DVD today.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Btw, the DVD has Mac and Rocket uncut,
Think Pete and Dud, in Afgan...