Price Rises and the Community

[Fenton]

Who or what is CMON?

[sebigboss79]

Cool Mini Or Not...a website dedicated to "rate paintjobs of minis".

But don't you dare to post non-GW minis. Those are ruthlessly downmarked. (crappy painted GW mini 6.3, perfect specimen of Urban War Mini 4.3 at which point I deleted my account.)

[Techno]

All I can see....But I think someone's already commented on the fact that their customer base must be shrinking and shrinking.

Oh....and fsn....What odds are you giving me ?

Cheers - Phil

[Ithoriel]

Agree to a point.  Most of the current GW customers won't use ebay for figures older than a couple of years; they don't know what they are and fit this week's rules.

The teens I know playing GW games are playing about two editions ago rules with a mix of brand new figures bought by granny* and figures from a range of sources and a variety of scales - 20mm, 25mm, 28mm. Watched a 40K game recently where most of the "Imperial Guard" were armed with crossbows and halberds!!

*in this case a shorthand for all relatives with money, access to a local GW store and a vague notion that "little Johnny" does something with toy soldiers.

[DanJ]

From the point of view of an outsider (never played WH or WH40K or WH Historical) I've always been amazed and impressed by GW marketing/business strategy which seems to be 'Grab 'em young and drain 'em dry'.  Cutting off the supply of new victims sorry hobbyists seems like a strategy for disaster.

But one thing no-one seems to mention is boredom, the GW products haven't changed in about 30 years, it's still WH and WH40K, any new or inovative games have been ruthlessly killed off as GW has sought to concentrate on its key products, they don't seem to realise that the rest of the gaming world is changing and developing. 

Like many evil empires they've stagnated, they might well fall which would be a shame for their employees but I doubt the gamers will mourne for long and when it has gone there will be more room for everyone else, with the dinosaur gone the nippy 10mm mammals will evolve into a bright new future.

[fateeore]

GW's problem has nothing to do with the company, it is the customers - yeah I know this is heresy. But if one spends any time on forums in which the company and the games are discussed it soon becomes clear that 'the community' - particularly in the US - is insane. It is not so much the obsessiveness that jars, as their complete lack of awareness of anything beyond.

[Techno]

GW's problem has nothing to do with the company, it is the customers - yeah I know this is heresy. But if one spends any time on forums in which the company and the games are discussed it soon becomes clear that 'the community' - particularly in the US - is insane. It is not so much the obsessiveness that jars, as their complete lack of awareness of anything beyond.

That brings up (a possibly ?) interesting question......Do the prices over the other side of the Pond compare to those elsewhere ?.....Or do they work out (effectively) a good bit cheaper ?
Sorry....I'm too lazy to check...I'm sure someone will know without having to look 
Cheers - Phil.

[fateeore]

That brings up (a possibly ?) interesting question......Do the prices over the other side of the Pond compare to those elsewhere ?.....Or do they work out (effectively) a good bit cheaper ?
Sorry....I'm too lazy to check...I'm sure someone will know without having to look 
Cheers - Phil.

It's nothing to do with price.

A good example is White Dwarf. Read any forum over the past few years and a regular complaint is that the magazine is a catalogue and doesn't have content. So now GW has relaunched the magazine and apparently it will contain new rules - as used to happen in the 'good old days' - and the complaint is that this is a rip off, and how can people keep up with the new rules.

Or another example along the same lines, a while ago over a couple of issues White Dwarf released an uodate to the Sister's of Battle codex. The complaint was that the magazine sold out, and that it was impossible to get a copy, as the website listed it as sold out. It was pointed out that the UK website had copies - and it wwas also pointed out that unsold copies would be returned over the following month - at which point the complaint was that the shipping would be prohibitive from the UK - at which point it was pointed out that it was free shipping over £20 (or whatever) and they could get the magazine and miniature or two - at which point the complaint went back to it being outragious that the magazine was not available in the US (which was factually incorrect given that the interwebz exists)

Which is not to say there are legitimate complaints - Finecast springs to mind - and possibly price - but generally it is just a culture of pointless complaining and carping criticism about everything. So much so that I have long ago concluded that many of these memes are chimps being paid in minis by GW's competitors.

[sebigboss79]

Maybe because the rules are in the codex anyways?
Or maybe because the "content" was freely available on forums/blogs and the GW website before?

A lot of heat GW is getting is unreasonable but where there is smoke there usually is some fire as well.

[Sandinista]

I find GW bashing quite boring. I'm not really interested in their games, or prices or how they work. Some people think they are killing the hobby, some think they bring in new blood, some people also zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

[fateeore]

I find GW bashing quite boring. I'm not really interested in their games, or prices or how they work. Some people think they are killing the hobby, some think they bring in new blood, some people also zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 

As Phil pointed out, plus ca change...

[Leon]

I keep an eye on what they're up to, but I leave them to it these days.  I've decided that every customer they bring in to the 'Hobby' is potentially a customer we'll gain one day, and every customer that turns away from GW is also a customer who we might gain one day.  Win-win for us, so stuff GW.

On a business level, unless they're all incompetent, they must realise the spiral they're in, where in view of decreasing sales, all they can do is increase prices to maintain an even keel.  No one seems to be looking at the core business, and asking why it isn't generating the money.  Why don't they have any fresh idea's?  And if they don't have the staff to create original games, then why don't they hire some?  

If it was me, I'd be looking at what games were getting good market share, and see where I could fit into that.  Whether in a partnership deal, distribution of that game, or simply hiring the author/creator to come and work for me instead.  They've got the biggest customer base in this industry, and they're not making the most of it at all.

[get2grips]

I've decided that every customer they bring in to the 'Hobby' is potentially a customer we'll gain one day, and every customer that turns away from GW is also a customer who we might gain one day.

Me for one; living proof.  Leon, you've seen my spend increase and increase since EE dropped Warmaster.

Their loss, your gain

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2014/01/16/83338/

[Techno]

Some very interesting comments in that, Will.
Cheers - Phil.

[howayman]

I was a wargamer before GW and will continue to be a wargamer if GW fail.
To me they have always been a niche market. Loved the idea of fantasy battles even used the notes in the back of the WRG ancients book to form armies, but could never get away with GWs need to control lists, uniforms, etc. so never got into it. As for the sci-fi the use of a sword in the distant future left me cold.
Sorry but big gaming companies will come and go. What is needed is a company with great figures and a friendly service which makes an effort to talk and listen to their customers, say a company like. . .Pendraken.
Long may they prosper.   

Back to the thread.
Prices have always and will continue to rise, but as long as the product is what we want then we will pay what is asked for it.
       Its a cruel world !

[Jc]

  They who shall not be named have just reported over a 30% loss for 2013, now we didn't see that coming did we. And the shareholders are reported to be slightly jittery at the prospect of no dividends or payouts.It just shows you can only bump your prices up so far and people will start to move away, link that with some unpopular introductions/moves going on in the stores and hey presto, it all starts to go belly up.

[GordonY]

Its been going belly up since they started pricing figures by how over powered they were in game. And of course dumping everything but their 2 "flagship" games.

They did produce some really nice rulesets though, Warmaster/Mordhiem/Trafalgar to name but a few, but these rulesets didnt need the flavour of the month over priced character model that you couldnt win without so were consigned to the bin.

[Nosher]

I think their drop in profit is more likely down to everyone having less to spend AND a poorly timed massive price hike in their ranges as opposed to a major move away from the dark side

[sebigboss79]

I have opened this thread for that purpose: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,9268.30.html

particularly to compare directly a few reasons of success of one competitor who doe snot need to be named and the demise of those you shall not be named

Concerning your feel Nosher I must object. Done a little analysis  (in German though) and in short: They sold much less due to sectioning markets and price increases. Said price hike did not compensate the loss in sales which can be seen from the numbers. Thus people move to alternatives. I stopped after Sales/Earnings/ROE plus cost structure and did not bother with cashflow and more elaborate analysis.