Price Rises and the Community

[sebigboss79]

Since Pendraken are raising their prices I would like to announce this:

http://masterminis.blogspot.de/2014/01/the-future-of-games-days-games.html

The best comment refers to the feedback the EE gets and simply does not listen and moreover treats its fanbase like dirt.

GW may have full control of their cost but they certainly have no clue about their sales. +1.1 % in sales and windowdressing your annual results to show a positive result by cutting costs cannot go on forever. Paired with the total disrespect to the community you get a wakeup call one day.

Now let us look at Pendraken:

1. The price rise is homogenous across the productline.
  This means this hits everyone and is not aimed at selling certain (new) products. I call this an honest raise related to cost!

2. The second to none support and community
  Does not really need an explanation, does it? It is one reason that ALL customers swallow the price increase without much change in their buying habit. We get what we want (wishlists) and Pendraken is there for their fanbase.

[Techno]

Hmmmm....
Interesting....
Cheers - Phil

[get2grips]

Thanks Boss...that has REALLY cheered me up

Scrap Warmaster will you

Ignore your customers

Reap as you sew

[sebigboss79]

Hmmmm....
Interesting....
Cheers - Phil

I tried to save my ranting about business and that cutting cost is not the last (or best) word.
As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.

Mine is that pleasing shareholders and not your fanbase is the wrong step. You need to please the fanbase in order to please the shareholders.

[get2grips]

I tried to save my ranting about business and that cutting cost is not the last (or best) word.
As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.

Mine is that pleasing shareholders and not your fanbase is the wrong step. You need to please the fanbase in order to please the shareholders.

Speaking as one of the former fanbase; they well and truly hacked me off and, as a result, Pendraken have gained £500+ of my business over the last year or so.

Multiply by however many more there are feeling the same and you have your answer!  QED

[Techno]

As an employee from the good old times it would be interesting to hear your opinion.

I suppose the biggest difference since the time I was there, is that there weren't any shareholders then, Seb.
Yes....It was a business....And we were trying to push it forward....But I don't think we ever lost sight of the need to please the customer.
(At least I hope we never did !)
After all, the studio, especially, was almost entirely made up of 'fans' that had found their way 'into the business.

Only time I ever thought ....."That's a bit cheeky'....Was when the price of 'special' figures started rising beyond what you'd expect to pay for a 'grunt'.
It was pointed out to me that a) the 'specials' usually took the designer a good bit longer to make....and b).....The customer would (or could) only have a single one in his/her army on the tabletop.....So there was no way we were ever going to sell as many.

Even in those days there were folk that saw the 'old' GW as the Evil Empire.....And I have to admit, that in those days I found that a bit hurtful.
As far as I was concerned, we DID care about the customers then.

Cheers - Phil.

[get2grips]

I suppose the biggest difference since the time I was there, is that there weren't any shareholders then, Seb.
Yes....It was a business....And we were trying to push it forward....But I don't think we ever lost sight of the need to please the customer.

Even in those days there were folk that saw the 'old' GW as the Evil Empire.....And I have to admit, that in those days I found that a bit hurtful.
As far as I was concerned, we DID care about the customers then.

From the outside, GW's service then felt like Pendraken's feels now.

Loved GW in the 80s.  It was a bit rough around the edges but all the better for that; when you went into store it was in no way corporate and more "model shoppy" (you know the kind of shop I mean).

And, as someone else commented, White Dwarf at that time was a GENUINE gamers' magazine including book reviews, chat, painting and modelling tips etc.  After that big business took over and, IMHO, the customer became a cash cow.  Once that's your business model; it is almost inevitable you'll fail.

[sebigboss79]

Thanks Techno and it concurs with my views as well.

I got into the hobby with Space Crusade and I could see and feel the love the designers had put in there.

I believe in order to please shareholders you need to please the fanbase. Only then will they buy your product and create returns for the shareholders but I shall not start a business management rant.

Quo Vadis GW? We are a niche hobby and without a presence on High Street even more so. So as much as I rejoice at GW being punched in the face (would that constitute a hobby, too?) I do not want them destroyed for the selfish reason that I love my hobby.

[get2grips]

Destroyed?  No.

Humbled?  Most definitely!

[Steve J]

Another interesting read re: the evil empire...

http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gw-whats-gone-wrong-personal-view.html

[Fenton]

If GW does go under ( and people have been saying that for the last 15 years) then life will go on. The supply products to a niche market that is pretty much unconnected with the rest of wargaming

Life will go on

[get2grips]

If GW does go under ( and people have been saying that for the last 15 years) then life will go on. The supply products to a niche market that is pretty much unconnected with the rest of wargaming

Life will go on

Agreed

[Techno]

Another interesting read re: the evil empire...
http://johnstoysoldiers.blogspot.co.uk/2014/01/gw-whats-gone-wrong-personal-view.html

Good article....But life will go on.....
Anyone care to wager that the comments will still be the same in another year's time ?....As EE increase their prices even more.
Cheers - Phil.

[fsn]

I'll take that wager!

If I win, you get a star part in next year's panto and do me a figure of my chioice.

If you win, you don't get a star part in next year's panto and I don't show you what happens to your figures when I get hold of them.

[get2grips]

Good article....But life will go on.....
Anyone care to wager that the comments will still be the same in another year's time ?....As EE increase their prices even more.
Cheers - Phil.

There has to come a snapping point and maybe they'vs reached it.  They've burned so many customers they have no loyal fan base.  I will now only buy things from them I absolutely cannot get elsewhere; nuln oil wash is the last product of theirs I still buy.

Additionally, their brushes used to be awesome (I still have some from 15+ years ago when I worked for them) now they barely last a couple of months.  This smells of cost-cutting to please share-holders.

So will we be saying the same in a year's time; I don't think so.

Finally, I wonder if the move to plastics / resins has also contributed.  There was something awesome, powerful, seductive even to owning weighty lead (as was) armies.  Lead (or pewter) is also far enough removed from childhood toys to be "different" enough for teenagers to want to collect; more grown up if you will.  Could be a factor???

[get2grips]

I'll take that wager!

If I win, you get a star part in next year's panto and do me a figure of my chioice.

If you win, you don't get a star part in next year's panto and I don't show you what happens to your figures when I get hold of them.

Where is the Panto slacker???

[sebigboss79]

Well someone (American) on FB "in the business" is trying to convince me the move to resin was just a stopgap on the way to all plastic.

Not only could the person care less to answer my question why wasting money on resin is so brilliant when you are moving to plastic in the long run anyways.

But now they move to plastic step by step and abandon resin (after sunk cost) step by step as any sane person would have - and as I suggested in the frst place. But of course my analysis that "GW tried to sell a sub-par product without necessary QC (outsourced to customer) at a premium price" is "angry and condencending". I beg to differ and believe that this attempt to screw the fanbase some more severly backfired.

And my notion to do what you want to do without wasting time and money is too expensive (while GW are now doing it anyways). Is it just me or are the intellectual capacities of my opponent really that limited (aka idiot)?

[Ithoriel]

Idle speculation on my part but could the rise of EBay, coupled with tremendous "churn" in the customer base also be a factor?

I still buy GW products, mainly Warmaster stuff, but I get it all from EBay. THe occasional conversation I have with sellers suggests to me that it is mainly  people in their late teens/ mothers of teenage kids who've moved out of the family home that I'm buying from. In other words, I buy from former GW customers, GW have already had their money for that product and miss out on a sale to me.

Anecdotal evidence (at best!) - any thoughts?

[get2grips]

Idle speculation on my part but could the rise of EBay, coupled with tremendous "churn" in the customer base also be a factor?

I still buy GW products, mainly Warmaster stuff, but I get it all from EBay. THe occasional conversation I have with sellers suggests to me that it is mainly  people in their late teens/ mothers of teenage kids who've moved out of the family home that I'm buying from. In other words, I buy from former GW customers, GW have already had their money for that product and miss out on a sale to me.

Anecdotal evidence (at best!) - any thoughts?

Agree to a point.  Most of the current GW customers won't use ebay for figures older than a couple of years; they don't know what they are and fit this week's rules.

[sebigboss79]

There is a point there but I believe another issue is equally valid.

Imagine a company vehemently conditions people to buy from them and not on ebay or cheaper vendors.
In the same instance said company lowers their cost as much as they can and justify it in whichever way.

Are "normal people" not compelled to lower THEIR OWN cost as much a spossible?
Are "normal people" not seeing the bigotry to do one thing and tell others how bad they are should they do exactle the same?
Are youngsters not particularly encouraged to do something "forbidden" such as buying from ebay, downloading rules etc just do be "cool" and get one back at the big bad EE?

GW has underestimated social cohesion and networking and instead of adapting their policies they start C&D-ing everyone including Santa Clause. Of course only because Santa has no insurance and could slug it out with them. Why do they go against BoW, BOLS, CHS and so on but CMON can post pictures of Speeeehs Marienz and use GW products (against current IP dogma) in their videos? Maybe because CMON would happily go to court with them and tear them apart while alive?

As Techno hints a bit more interaction and compassion for the hobby and its community would have avoided the shism they are now in. Much like many empires before they cheeringly dug their own grave.