rules and figs......LoA/Marlburian

[Barry70]

Hello everyone
This is my first post....I am new to 10mm gaming and I have a couple of questions.
Is there a set of easy play rules from Pendraken on 16th/17th century wars?
Secondly,may I ask what is the difference betwean Marlburian and League of Augsburg and can the figures be used for both(I have ordered some Marlburians,but may be more interested in the league of Augsburg)
thanks
Barry

[rexhurley]

Hello everyone
This is my first post....I am new to 10mm gaming and I have a couple of questions.
Is there a set of easy play rules from Pendraken on 16th/17th century wars?
Secondly,may I ask what is the difference between Marlburian and League of Augsburg and can the figures be used for both(I have ordered some Marlburians,but may be more interested in the league of Augsburg)
thanks
Barry

Hi there sorry buddy as far as I know Pendraken don't do rules but for the period I can recommend either Barry Hilton's Version 2 of Under the lily banner or alternatively Sam Mustafa's Maurice.

Marlburian or the War of the Spanish Succession was an extension of the War of the Gran Alliance or Nine years War (LOA Period) yes and no for uniforms but mainly by the WSS all Pike are gone and everyone is in Tricorns if you want snazzy and your starting out I would suggest do the LOA as a very similar has more flavour with Pikes and most importantly while the Marlburian figures are nice if you do the LOA you get to paint Clib's lovely new scuplts, if I didnt already have around a 1000 Marlburian figures already i would be doing the LOA.

Cheers Rex

[SV52]

I would echo rexhurley on this one.  Both periods have their own merits and variety, far better and more satisfying to choose one or the other I think.

League of Augsburg used to have a cheap (£6.00) .pdf download of v.1 of BLB on their website.  I got this one rather than pay the 30 quid or whatever for the latest version (I'm a cheapskate and haven't even used it yet)

If you've used DBA, there's a version called DBR RRR which covers the LoA using 12 element armies and has army lists for the period.

Either way they are attractive armies on the table - press on!

[Wkeyser]

I have been using Captain General for my Malburians, it is from the Pike and Shot society!

A set of rules that really capture the flavor of the period, the command and control rules are great and make you really think ahead and plan your attacks or your defense. Combat is so linear that it "hurts". The different fireing methods are really shown, plattoon vrs rank fire. It is written with a real depth of knowlege of the period and is very specific to the period covered.

William

[Hertsblue]

The War of the League of Augsburg (1688-1697) and the War of the Spanish Succession (1701-1714) were parts of an ongoing struggle in Europe to limit the power of Louis XIV of France. The LOA war was fought mainly in the Netherlands and consisted largely of sieges and naval battles. The WSS was more further flung, embracing Germany, Italy and Spain as well as the Low Countries and France. From a technological point of view the chief difference bewteen the two conflicts was the general phasing out of the pike in the WSS and the adoption of shock cavalry by the more enlightened nations in place of pistoleers.

As for rules, if you don't wish to lay out a large sum initially you might give the Corporal John set at http://www.rulesdepot.net/index.html a look.   

[Fenton]

Some body did an Impetus conversion called Le Roi Soleil, not sure if you needed the full Impetus rules or just the basic version 

http://www.dadiepiombo.com/lrs.html

[rexhurley]

Some body did an Impetus conversion called Le Roi Soleil, not sure if you needed the full Impetus rules or just the basic version 

http://www.dadiepiombo.com/lrs.html

You need the full Impetus to play it as the extension refers to points of the main rules

[Grenadier]

Barry70,
 Ah, WSS vs WGA.  A dilema for sure. So close together in time but with so many differences!  As stated in prior replies, the pike was pretty much gone in "European" armies by the time of the WSS and battle cavalry was coming of age. The socket bayonet had become pretty much standard equipment and thus had relegated the pike to the scrap heap.  Also, the WGA was pretty much relegated the the low countries for battles.  The WSS/GNW was nearly a world war with actions in Germany, Russia, Poland, Sweden, Spain, Italy, Norway, The WSS can be said to straddle two periods, the old pike and shot and the classic SYW, but don't ignore the old school, but concurant, Great Northern War which Russia, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Prusssia, Saxony, Poland and other minor states participated in during this period of 1701-1720ish.  Both periods give you the choice of many different combatants, allegiances and intrigue but the WSS is a bit more polished with national uniformity, arms and equipment, etc.
 Rules are many but I would look at the excellent Baccus rules for WSS and GNW, Ga Pa, Captain General, Impetus La Roi Soliel, Beneath The Lilly Banners, Blenheim 2004 come to mind.
 Why not do both?
Brian

[Chad]

Brian

Do not think that SYW should be mentioned in this context. The differences are too great. WSS may be a precursor to the later developments, but it does not straddle
the SYW.

For example:

50 years apart, iron ramrods, marching in cadence, professional artillery crews and 3-rank formation generally standard.

You might also mention that the benefits of platoon firing as described in the classic Malplaquet 'episode' are, I believe, generally unproven now. Personally I ignore any
benefits attributed to this in rules.

Good selection of rules. Blenheim 2004 is certainly worth a look, particularly as it is free to download from Warflag. I have had interesting WSS games with 'Maurice'.

Chad

[Grenadier]

Chad,

Oh no, I agree.  I was attempting to put the WSS/GNW in perspective for Barry70 by saying the WSS has elements of the SYW such as the world-wide scope of entanglement,  uniformity in equipment, ie: tricornes, flintlocks with socket bayonets, "national" color uniformity, etc.  I didn't want to imply that the two periods were similar in tactics and operations.  It might have been better to say the 9 Years War(War of the Grand Alliance, or League of Augsburg or whatever you want to call it) had one foot in the 30 years War and one foot in the WSS. 

Brian

[Hertsblue]

You might also mention that the benefits of platoon firing as described in the classic Malplaquet 'episode' are, I believe, generally unproven now. Personally I ignore any
benefits attributed to this in rules.

Chad

Agree entirely, Chad. From a logical point of view dividing up battalion fire into small parts actually provides no advantage over firing the entire unit in one volley - other than the ability to fire almost continuously. Given the inherant inaccuracy of musket fire in the early eighteenth century any effect could only be to morale. Of far more significance vis a vis weight of fire was surely the move from four-five ranks to three ranks, which allowed the men hitherto in the rear rank(s) to fire unhindered by their fellows in front.   

[clibinarium]

You might also mention that the benefits of platoon firing as described in the classic Malplaquet 'episode' are, I believe, generally unproven now. Personally I ignore any
benefits attributed to this in rules.

That was my understanding too, but its still a prevalent idea. I picked up this month's Military History Monthly, as Marlborough was on the cover, thinking they'd have something interesting to say, but it turned out to be another rehash of Robert Parker's account 

[Grenadier]

 Well, we hijacked Barry70's thread, but here's a similar thread from TMP a few years back.( BTW, I'm Grenadiers zu Fuss)
http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=201546

To answer Barry70's question, no, you really can't use Leon's LoA figures for the WSS/GNW as they are vastly different in uniform.  As for rules that can be used for both eras, I would go with Ga Pa, Polemos GNW or BTLB2 as all include rules for pikes.
Welcome to this fascinating and colorful period, Barry. I don't suppose you live in central Iowa, USA?

Brian