What is a realistic figure cost? Are we being subsidised?

[Leon]

I would look at that and consider your business unsustainable... unless you are selling in excess of 1,000,000 figures per annum (33,000 packs).

I wouldn't say unsustainable, we've managed 21 years, but I know what you mean.  We'd need more than that as well, a £250k turnover would be about enough to give both of us something approaching a decent wage for the hours we do!

The main reason is that there's never been a real profit margin built into the pack prices, which was fine when it was Dave working part-time in the evenings as a hobby business.  As we've got bigger though, the price increases have only covered a new bill, so we had an increase for our first part-time caster, an increase when we went VAT, and one when we moved into the unit.  So, whilst the prices are higher, we still don't have much profit.

The photo's is a big thing, and I'm very reluctant to hit £5 a pack until we have pics of all the products on the website.  I'd also want to be down to a 7 day turnaround on the mail orders as well, so that we're competing effectively on all aspects of the business.

[Orcs]

Is a 7 Day Turn around really necessary? 

I can understand its desirability in these days of instant gratification, but I don't think wargamers fall into that bracket. If we did we would be either buying prepainted figures or  playing computer or board games. 

It is a slow process organising an army, placing an order, painting the units until we get to the finished army.(Are they ever finished?)  I don't think any wargamer out there would be have nothing to paint, base tinker with while he waits a couple of weeks for an order.   It simply puts presure on you to fulfil the order quickly  and makes your cashflow tighter. I would have thought most of your customers would accept a two week turnaround as fast and possibly 3-4 weeks fully acceptable. 

As long as you manage peoples expectations and communicate with them most people are happy.

[fsn]

May I quote from the Gauls thread? "The problem with over-animated poses is, without sufficient variety of poses, they look more like a troupe of formation dancers than a troop of warriors..."

May I suggest you get a feel for what we really want? What we really, really want? For example, would we (the loyal customers) stand for fewer poses? I'm not consistent here. I want a bit of life in my barbarians and post 1900 figures, and will stand some variety in the ACW, but I really, really want only one pose in my Napoleonic units. (Charles Grant be praised!)

Also, how many NEW customers do you get from shows? How much do you sell to one-off customers? What are the key shows to attend?

If the price goes up to £5 per pack, are we (your loyal customer base) all going to rush off to Magister Militum? (they do have chariot armies, but no likelihood of Centurions in 10mm.)

May I suggest a survey of sorts? Something you could do on line and notify by sticking something in the orders for a month or so, with perhaps some incentive for return? That way you could find out how important a 7 day turn around would be, the importance of adding new ranges (after the Centurion of course) and acceptable pricing.

I wonder if you techie wunder-kid could get something on the forum? If not, Survey Monkey is easy to use. (I use it for work and would be happy to set up and admin it for you - for free.)

[sebigboss79]

Just a wee read and would object to the "instant gratification" notion.

There are wargamers that are absolutely comfortable waiting for the figures, depending on several factors. I know one outfit that has 30+ days turnaround which is ok in their case and I accept it.

But then there are other gamers who demand "now and here". GW is a good example that satisfies those. The drawback is price levels I consider almost obscene and a tight regime on what is "right" and what is "wrong".

Pendraken turnaround is very, very fast and if not instantly I would grant them almost instant gratification. Then there is the "quality" issue. I have received nothing but the best service and products plus an occasional chat with the Master (Leon) himself. Not that I am encouraging a price rise but even if the prices were increased reasonably I would not fall out with gaming or Pendraken.

Not only is it legitimate that Leon and Co. earn a living wage in their job, I would argue that this is in MY best interest as well. We as gamers should also realise that manufacturers could decide to seek another occupation which would be detrimental to our hobby pleasures.

[fsn]

Hear! Hear!

[Leon]

Is a 7 Day Turn around really necessary? 

I can understand its desirability in these days of instant gratification, but I don't think wargamers fall into that bracket. If we did we would be either buying prepainted figures or  playing computer or board games. 

The vast majority of people are fine with it, but you'd be surprised how many emails I get along the lines of, "I placed an order 3 days ago, and it's not arrived yet, can you tell me what the problem is...?"  There's a lot of people out there, and it may be the ones coming into 10mm from more 'professional' gaming genre's where things are packaged in shiny boxes with shrink wrapping, who expect us to have everything sat on shelves waiting to be shipped out.  With 3500 codes, and needing an average of 5-10 of each in stock, we'd have around £100k of stock sitting here!    Pitch that as a business model on Dragon's Den and you'd get an 'I'm Out!' within seconds.

Also, how many NEW customers do you get from shows? How much do you sell to one-off customers? What are the key shows to attend?

Bit of an unknown quantity that one I'm afraid.  I have tried tracking new orders from within a 50 mile radius of a show, but there's no way of knowing whether it's a direct link.  We do get people coming to the stand at almost every show though, who have never looked at 10mm as a scale before, so it's a good shop window.  Over the past couple of years we've cut out the shows which weren't that profitable as well.

May I suggest a survey of sorts? Something you could do on line and notify by sticking something in the orders for a month or so, with perhaps some incentive for return? That way you could find out how important a 7 day turn around would be, the importance of adding new ranges (after the Centurion of course) and acceptable pricing.

I wonder if you techie wunder-kid could get something on the forum? If not, Survey Monkey is easy to use. (I use it for work and would be happy to set up and admin it for you - for free.)

Interesting idea, and something to think about.   

Not only is it legitimate that Leon and Co. earn a living wage in their job, I would argue that this is in MY best interest as well. We as gamers should also realise that manufacturers could decide to seek another occupation which would be detrimental to our hobby pleasures.

Dave still does have another occupation!   

[petercooman]

... and does not Friend Coonan put is finger neatly on the pulse? We (the customers) are doing our bit - feeding the dog cheap dog food, missing the children's dental appointments and becoming inveterate round-dodgers just to feed our Pendraken habit? We are unlikely to spend more, just buy less. Pendraken revenue isn't necessarily going to rise that much, though production costs will of course go down.

Actually, i buy nothing of my hobby stuff from the monthly pay, i just use the money i generate from selling old stuff and projects, and money i get for christmass, birthday etc...

My dog gets premium dog food and i don't go to the child's dental appointment because they will fall out and replace themselves anyway in a year or 2 

[Luddite]

Actually, i think a 7 day turn around would be a good target to aim at.

My last few orders have been around the 14 day mark which means i've often forgotten what i ordered or why.  

Hehe...

[Orcs]

Actually, i think a 7 day turn around would be a good target to aim at.

My last few orders have been around the 14 day mark which means i've often forgotten what i ordered or why.  

Hehe...

Surely thats a reason for Leon to extend the turn around- then you will order the stuff again  or your interest will have moved on and you will order from another range. Then you can say to Mrs Luddite " I don't remember ordering these " quite honestly 

[sebigboss79]

Dave still does have another occupation!   

Didn't know that but still. If he/you make a loss in this venture why would you stay in it?

Business, in principle, should always be profitable. And I really mean what I said, that it is in MY very own interest that Pendraken and Minibits stay open for a few more decades/millenia...

[fsn]

Ideally, we would be somewhere closer to MM's pricing, so around £5 per pack,

I have been bricking it. I've been buying WWII and the infantry packs are £1.35, and have been losing sleep over a potential 300% price hike. 

I'm hoping the £5 packs are the ones currently priced at £4. 

[Leon]

I have been bricking it. I've been buying WWII and the infantry packs are £1.35, and have been losing sleep over a potential 300% price hike. 

I'm hoping the £5 packs are the ones currently priced at £4. 

Yep, that would be the £4 packs!

[sebigboss79]

1.35 to 5... sounds like someone was buying too much GW in the past 

[fsn]

How dare you Sir! I may be stupid, but I have never, ever bought GW!

[sebigboss79]

How dare you Sir! I may be stupid, but I have never, ever bought GW!

I beg your pardon, but I insist on saying  "sounds like" not that you actually did commit such despicable nonsense.