German Panzer Sand

[Hertsblue]

OK, now here's something that has bothered me for years. What is the actual colour of the basic "sand" paint used on German AFVs in WW2. The Vallejo version has a distinct greenish tinge to it - as did the old Humbrol enamel hue - to such an extent that a small model painted with it looks green. However, every source book I own (and I own a fair few) shows German AFVs base-coated with a dull yellow colour, which would justify the description of "sand".

Now, I appreciate that these are artists' impressions and they do vary greatly in tone, but the difference from the paint colour is so marked as to stand out like a sore thumb. Colour photographs of actual vehicles are few and far between and in any case I would not trust sixty-five year old colour-values.

So, what do we think? Is it simply a case that the paints are a true match but on small models need to be considerably lightened? Or have the paint manufacturers got it seriously wrong? I await your comments with interest. 

[Steve J]

There was a good article on the FoW website a while back about which colours to use. A quick look yielded no useful info but I remember that the 'real' was not what gamers were expecting and so used a more beige colour instead. When I get some time I'll see if I can track it down.

[Steve J]

Found it, so hopefully it is of use.

http://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=454

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I use coat d'arms desert yellow and pale sand, the greener one I use as a base coat, then I highlight with the other and then do a white mix highlight on that

[FierceKitty]

I recall that Duffy makes the point that British scarlet in the horse and musket wars was usually rapidly weathered to a russet red ochre sort of colour that was every bit as practical as the majority of enemy uniforms. Russian armies almost always removed their green coats and fought in bright red jackets. Zulus took off their feathers before going into battle, and Spartans never fought in those long cloaks.
And yet every wargamer paints figures to look like the popular image rather than the reality. I don't think you need worry too much about a few semitones of excessive yellow or brown.

[TinyTerrain]

Quickest and easiest I have found is Vallejo Green Ochre with a GW Sepia Wash. There's lots of bits of info on this subject on my blog as well as the finished Panzer pucs (see link in signature below)
Cheers

Craig
Tiny Terrain Models

[wargamesbob]

A tank driver and superb modeller whom I knew many years ago remarked that the British tanks he drove and saw during WW2 in Italy varied from dark olive to pea green. "You just slapped on what ever paint was to hand at the time". I imagine it would have been similar to that for the Germans. The excellent three volume set "Panzer Colours" by Bruce Culver and Bill Murphy, however, tends towards a beige base coat.
It's worth bearing in mind too that camo patterns were mainly decided on by individual field commanders and applied by the vehicle crews whose artistic abilities varied considerably, this led to a lot of variety even within the same units trying to apply a similar design.

Bob

[Hertsblue]

So the general consensus seems to be that, like most things in life, there is no "right" answer. It's a conclusion I had more or less come to myself.

Thank you all for your valuable comments and input and particularly to Steve for pointing up the FoW article, which clarified a lot of my thinking.

[FierceKitty]

Oh, and every crusader army I've seen give the Hospitallers black mantels, which they not surprisingly replaced almost immediately with red after a few days in the middle eastern sun.

[nikharwood]

Oh, and every crusader army I've seen give the Hospitallers black mantels, which they not surprisingly replaced almost immediately with red after a few days in the middle eastern sun.

Ahem...

http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,4706.0.html

[FierceKitty]

Ah.....

[FierceKitty]

Resistance is feudal.

[nikharwood]

Resistance is feudal.

[Steve J]

Oh dear..... .

[FierceKitty]

Don't shoot me. It's been a long term.