Pleistocene Megafauna Hunt!

[O Dinas Powys]

I picked up a copy of Magister Militum's Dinomight at Colours having played it at a local convention; then played Tusk! at Colours and my inner palaeontologist (/caveman!  ) has been stirred to wondering about a Pleistocene Megafauna hunt game. 
(I know there are dinosaurs/raptors/etc available, but they’re not from the correct geological epoch (and I’ve got them all anyway for Mesozoic scenarios ))

So the following codes are suitable:
AC5 War mammoth
AC35 Rhinoceros
FB6 Bison
FG6 Wolves and FG10 Giant Warwolves
FSA8 Tigers

The barbarians and amazons should provide suitable hunters.

However, there are a couple of holes that need filling:
Horses and "camels": are the any figures available without tack?  Otherwise, unicorns seem the best fit for horses.
FO10 Warboars: are they same as the ones that pull the chariot and are they (both) tack-free?
Are there any naked elephants, or do they all come with blankets and the like?

Finally, any other codes I’ve missed lurking in the outer reaches of the colonial ranges or the like?

Cheers,

Meirion

[Leon]

Horses and "camels": are the any figures available without tack?  Otherwise, unicorns seem the best fit for horses.

We've got a couple of bare horses in the Fantasy range which we use for the High Elf chariot, they should be OK (although there's only a couple in the mould!)
For camels, there are some in the Sudan range, SC14, but I think they've got a blanket on.

FO10 Warboars: are they same as the ones that pull the chariot and are they (both) tack-free?

Yep, exactly the same as the ones on the chariot.

Are there any naked elephants, or do they all come with blankets and the like?

Just the Ancient Indian ones, but they've got blankets on.  You could possibly file them off?

Finally, any other codes I’ve missed lurking in the outer reaches of the colonial ranges or the like?

I'm not sure if they fit into your timeline or setting, but we've got:-

- Oxen in the Boer range (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/BW26-p3841/)
- Water Buffalo in the Vietnam stuff (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/VM31-p4738/)
- Rat Swarms (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FR10-p5029/)
- Swarm of Bats (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC12-p5132/)
- Pack mules for the hunters? (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC21-p5140/)
- Flying Lizard? (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Fantasy-c21/Lizardmen-sc160/)
- There's always a Giant Tortoise in the Lizards as well! (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FL11-p4977/)

[Blaker]

Howdy O Dinas,

Which set of rules did you like playing the most?

I have Tusk from at least 10 years ago and never got to reading or playing it 

Interested in your take on both sets of rules.   I was thinking about giving Dungeon World rules a try to see if they work also.

cya

[republic of tolworth]

I've got a 'stone age' fantasy hunter group for HC/HOTT. I feel they may meet the wrath of Sandanistas dino swarm.

Had to get a few terror birds though All very 10,000BC 

[O Dinas Powys]

Horses and "camels": are the any figures available without tack?  Otherwise, unicorns seem the best fit for horses.

We've got a couple of bare horses in the Fantasy range which we use for the High Elf chariot, they should be OK (although there's only a couple in the mould!)
For camels, there are some in the Sudan range, SC14, but I think they've got a blanket on.

FO10 Warboars: are they same as the ones that pull the chariot and are they (both) tack-free?

Yep, exactly the same as the ones on the chariot.

Are there any naked elephants, or do they all come with blankets and the like?

Just the Ancient Indian ones, but they've got blankets on.  You could possibly file them off?

Finally, any other codes I’ve missed lurking in the outer reaches of the colonial ranges or the like?

I'm not sure if they fit into your timeline or setting, but we've got:-

- Oxen in the Boer range (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/BW26-p3841/)
- Water Buffalo in the Vietnam stuff (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/VM31-p4738/)
- Rat Swarms (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FR10-p5029/)
- Swarm of Bats (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC12-p5132/)
- Pack mules for the hunters? (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/AC21-p5140/)
- Flying Lizard? (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/Fantasy-c21/Lizardmen-sc160/)
- There's always a Giant Tortoise in the Lizards as well! (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FL11-p4977/)

Hi Leon,

Thanks for the info and links.  

I’m aiming for a pseudo-realistic set up from around say 10-100,000 years ago; so pretty much exclusively mammalian.  What I’m not too bothered about having the definitive figure for a particular species, more things to emulate the kind of creatures that would have been present.  
So, in that vein, the oxen and water buffalo look very useful. 

I’ll get my thinking cap on…  

Cheers,

Meirion

[O Dinas Powys]

Howdy O Dinas,

Which set of rules did you like playing the most?

I have Tusk from at least 10 years ago and never got to reading or playing it 

Interested in your take on both sets of rules.   I was thinking about giving Dungeon World rules a try to see if they work also.

cya

Hi Blaker,

Well, my first impression was that Tusk was better as a convention game, although the set-up, atmosphere, GM confidence and enthusiasm of players certainly helped.

I've just been to the Lincombe Barn website and I believe their game won "Best in Show".  It was definitely a very evocative set-up: http://bristolwargaming.co.uk/calendar.html
There are a couple of pictures in Leon's Colours report:


I’m not 100% sure we were playing the full rules for Tusk.  I think I’ll have to invest £3 to pick up a PDF from Wargames Vault to fully check it out: http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?currency=GBP&products_id=64533

In the game at the convention, killing a mammoth was 50-50 for Og the Hero (kill or be killed), very hard for a spearman or nigh impossible with a bow.  Creatures either went down in one hit or survived.  Mammoth also responded to the presence of hunters and/or being attacked in a random way.  Oh, and there were fire-starters who were fun!  Is there more than this in the rulebook you have?

Dinomight is more a combat system with behavioural considerations thrown in; it had the feel of an ecosystem emulator to me.  Damage is inflicted as critical hits that can kill outright, but more usually reduce stats creating a death-spiral effect.  The two bits I really like is the use of Sense and Conceal stats and the way panic works.

Dinomight is different from Tusk and Dungeon World because it works in "bases" à la HoTT, so whilst most dinos are individuals, small ones come in packs and humans come as hunting parties.  Figures are also differentiated into size brackets.  Since I’m aiming for a game with individual figures this shouldn’t be too big a problem, the figure scale would just need a bit of re-jigging.

I'm sure Dungeon World could certainly be modified into something suitable.  I would suggest the addition of behavioural factors like the other rules use.  I think it will definitely be worth looking at the imminent Advanced Dungeon World to see if there are systems for moral and “battlefield awareness” which could be employed. 

Hmm, think I’ll definitely pick up Tusk; compare and contrast; and try to do some play testing. 

This may take some time to happen, but I’ll post some more when it has!

Cheers,

Meirion

[O Dinas Powys]

I've got a 'stone age' fantasy hunter group for HC/HOTT. I feel they may meet the wrath of Sandanistas dino swarm.

I blame Hollywood!     It was soo much easier in the pulps! 

Had to get a few terror birds though All very 10,000BC 

  Definitely!  Any riders?  Is this a demi-bird thing? 

[Blaker]

Howdy Odinas,

What minis are you using for the cavemen/women?

The PDF Tusk cover art looks cool. My copy I remember ordering from Irregular Miniatures way back, I think is is Tusk 1.  Now I have to go find the dang rule book 

[O Dinas Powys]

Hi Blaker,

I've got some Cavemen from Magister Militum armed with spears and clubs that I was going to use for Neanderthals, for whom I believe current research shows no evidence for bow-use. 

Spear and bow armed Fantasy Barbarians and Amazons should do nicely for Cro-Magnon/early Homo sapiens, however I've also got AI11 Ancient Indian Forest tribesmen who I bought to use as Hyperborean (ie Conan) Picts.  They'll probably also go well with an appropriate pain job.

Just need to find something to use as a shaman and/or fire-starter now. 


I've bought and read the Tusk PDF and what I said above:

In the game at the convention, killing a mammoth was 50-50 for Og the Hero (kill or be killed), very hard for a spearman or nigh impossible with a bow.  Creatures either went down in one hit or survived.  Mammoth also responded to the presence of hunters and/or being attacked in a random way.  Oh, and there were fire-starters who were fun!  Is there more than this in the rulebook you have?

So, to answer my own question; yup, basically that all there is to it!

So Tusk is essentially a beer-and-pretzels game and feels almost more like a board-game to me.  You have five Neolithic hunter types with mammoth being the only available quarry.  The PDF also contains rules for Victorian adventurer units with bronto- and tyrannosaurs. 

Creatures are NPCs with actions controlled by a Reaction Table.  This is the primary differentiator between creature types (different movement rates being the other).  It does suggest creating your own tables, but that's it - everything goes down in one hit. 

Dinomight is definitely the more involved game, with each creature having its own stat-block and a more comprehensive combat system.  With all units being player controlled, behaviour is akin to morale in a more traditional war-game.

What might work would be to combine the combat system from Dungeon World with the Reaction Tables from Tusk.  This would allow for variety in both creature and hunter types and remove the one-hit; bang you’re dead!  (Should this be seen as desirable to remove.)

For game turn sequence I think that the Tusk system would be a more appropriate starting point than the Dungeon World one, if only because most creatures don’t have missile weapons to fight back with

Anyhow, if you fancy further rules discussion perhaps we could start a thread in the Rules forum once I’ve had a chance to sit down with all three systems side-by-side.

Cheers,

Meirion

[Blaker]

O Dinas, a rules discussion would be cool. So far from your short review, it seems like a blending of those three rules might be in order for a better feel type of game. I only have Tusk 2 now that it is downloaded and Dungeon World, will rely on your Dinomight experience on the Rules Discussion section.  LMK when you go there - thanks 

[Maenoferren]

there are role playing games as well that give stats for most things you would need, we are using savage worlds and Hollow earth ubiquity system  they give a good game and are as flexible as you want them to be.

[nikharwood]

there are role playing games as well that give stats for most things you would need, we are using savage worlds and Hollow earth ubiquity system  they give a good game and are as flexible as you want them to be.

Yes indeed - including six's ideas for porting D&D to DW [here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3412.0 ]

[O Dinas Powys]

O Dinas, a rules discussion would be cool. So far from your short review, it seems like a blending of those three rules might be in order for a better feel type of game. I only have Tusk 2 now that it is downloaded and Dungeon World, will rely on your Dinomight experience on the Rules Discussion section.  LMK when you go there - thanks 

Will do.

there are role playing games as well that give stats for most things you would need, we are using savage worlds and Hollow earth ubiquity system  they give a good game and are as flexible as you want them to be.

Yes indeed - including six's ideas for porting D&D to DW [here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3412.0 ]

True, true.  I'm familiar with Savage Worlds (and many others, but not Hollow Earth) and have enjoyed your batreps.  If it was a campaign game I think it might be more than worth the agro that the extra complexity of most RPGs would entail. 

For a more pick-up and play game then I'd like something simpler.  The only place Tusk falls down for me is the over simplified combat: it jars that creatures always go down in one hit and that there's no variation between creatures.  However, I think it will be perfect with my 6yo - she said she enjoyed it at Colours

Dinomight just appeals to the simulationist palaeontologist within me.  Who wouldn’t want to run a Tyrannosaurus pack over with a herd of Triceratops   

Anyway, need a project to keep the little grey cells from senescing.  Thanks for the input guys.

Hollow-Savage-Dungeon-Tusk here we come… 

[Blaker]

Howdy O Dinas

I got to thinking since I downloaded the Tusk 2 rules that I had seen something similar to these rules. So off to the barn I went and dug around for a couple of days and finally found my old copy of Stick & Stones MicroGames #11 from Metagaming (a la Steve Jackson Games) from 1978. S&S centers around hunting Mastodons and there is a scenario that takes place during the last ice age and villages began to spread and expand into other village's hunting grounds so you can have tribal warfare. 

I used to play with a lot of the Metagaming game designers and playtesters back in the mid 70s. Completely forgot about this jewel. I was a shadow playtester for many game designs way be when, hell I think I was even credited in Avalon Hill's The Third Riech, I think that was its name, which everone started as a Microgame that AH bought from SJG. I even tweaked some stuff for Warmaster Ancients before it went to print and reveiwed some sections for WMMedievals. Now that seems like ages ago also. So that piece of knowledge and a dollar will buy you a cup of coffee as they say around these parts :-)

Anyhoo, I was looking over the S&S rules and they have Warriors that can be armed either as just with your (H) hands or rock,  an (A) axe or suitable hand weapon, a  (S) spear or suitable throwing stick, or a ( bow and arrow or blowgun. Every Warrior has the option to try to start a fire. There are Dogs and Dependents you need to protect or capture from another tribe and Goods being either food or furs or sharpened flint.  It is played on a hex grid so I was thinking of converting hexes to inches for table top.

I need to finish reading them properly since I just skip read them and then I can properly read Tusk 2 and see what if any I need to cull from them or how they could work with DW. I would be interested to see what DinoMight has to offer, I think Steve Barber's Prehistoric Settelment rules has provisions for hunting other types of animals but I dont have those rules.

Just thought I would toss that out there since I found the S&S rules, now back to plotting and planning 

[capthugeca]

I've got Tusk 1 but where can I download Tusk 2?