Help finding DBA/DBM/DBMM and what version.

[count_zero99uk]

Hi, a friend of mine has been looking at hordes of the things and this lead him onto DBA, hes asked me whats current, and where he can find the rules.

Ive seen some stuff on ebay, army lists and the like, but am not sure what is compatible with what.  I would assume the army lists would fit with any thing, from what ive seen of HOTT.

If anyone can clarify this for me id appreciate it.

[NTM]

2.2 is the current version of DBA which includes army lists.
Copies are hard to come by but there is a contact e-mail for someone who apparently has some available here

http://www.wrg.me.uk/WRG/wrgindex.html

You can download an earlier version of DBA there too as well as the most recent HOTT which is not currently produced.

[count_zero99uk]

ive found a auction with books 1-4 or the army lists, they look liek ther for 1.something, would the fit with DBMM? do you know

[SV52]

Seems there's a version 3.0 of DBA on the horizon, new army lists as well (minor alterations I believe).  See Fanaticus site for what's known.

http://www.fanaticus.org/discussion/index.php

The way I do it is to use the DBA lists and then refer to the appropriate DBM list for the fine detail, then modify as I see fit. DBA  lists are in the rule book and cover year dot to 1500.  In DBM, separate books of lists cover different eras, e.g 3000BC - 500AD for Book I, etc.  The book numbers and army lists numbers are identical in each.  So II/23 in DBA is the same list as Book II list 23 in DBM.

DBA is a cut down version of the original DBM - beware there is a new DBMM set on the go as well.

Unless you intend to be a competition player or play in a club that gives a toss about strict adherence to rules, then who cares.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

The yahoo group for DBA has the last published version avaliable, with lists. Have to join yje group with a Yahoo ID.


If desparate I'll sell you my copies of DBM and Lists, but they older editions.

Likewise, since DBMM is totally incoprehensible, yours if you REALLY want it.

IanS

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

DBA is a cut down version of the original DBM - beware there is a new DBMM set on the go as well.

NO NO NO - it's completle the reverse, DBM is an expanded version of DBA.

IanS

[SV52]

NO NO NO - it's completle the reverse, DBM is an expanded version of DBA.

IanS

Quite right, DBA in 1989, DBM 1993.  Another illusion shattered 

[Luddite]

Hi, a friend of mine has been looking at hordes of the things and this lead him onto DBA, hes asked me whats current, and where he can find the rules.

Ive seen some stuff on ebay, army lists and the like, but am not sure what is compatible with what.  I would assume the army lists would fit with any thing, from what ive seen of HOTT.

If anyone can clarify this for me id appreciate it.

Here's the potted history of DBA  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Bellis_Antiquitatis

DBA and HOTT are basically the same rules, but with different troops types being integral to the rules they aren't  'compatible'.  However, given their ease of use, tweaking and converting between the two would be fairly easy.  Each army is tiny (12 'elements') and played on a 2x2' board.  A typical game lasts 30-40 mins.

DBM is a different matter. It takes the DBA core mechanics and greatly expands the gameplay (and it is very much a game), adding in advanced rules on terrain set up, deployment (both integral and if done right, game winning!), qualifiers like troop quality, and much larger armies (typically 80-120 elements).  Its designed to play on 6x4' tables and makes for a good tournament ruleset - if fiddling and micromanagment are your thing.

DBM is not compatable with DBA/HOTT.

As a set of rules its like Marmite - you'll love it or hate it.

Then there's DBR which takes DBM and converts it over for use in the Rennaissance period.  It fails.

Moving on, the authors Phil Barker and Richard Bodley Scott seemed to have got themselves into a bit of an arguement over what was to come next after DBM3.5...

Phil Barker produced DBMM which is, well, unplayable really.  It takes the DBM engine and tweaks it to death...

Richard Bodley Scott departed to team up with Osprey and Slitherine to produce the Field of Glory rules.

None of the DBx (as DBA, DBM, DBR, HOTT, and DBMM are known) are compatible with each other but if you play one, you'll pretty much be able to pick the others up very quickly since the basic mechanics are very similar.

[hamsterking]

"Phil Barker produced DBMM which is, well, unplayable really." It's a silly discussion really since you play what works for you but I play, and really like DBMM. A fair number of people do.


One important consideration is that DBA, DBM, DBMM and HOTT all share the same basing conventions. As does Field of Glory. So while armies aren't exactly compatible between the various games sets the miniatures based up for 1 game can be used in all the others.

[count_zero99uk]

Basicaly the books are out of print then, yet electronic ones are on the yahoo group.

Thanks for the info ill tell me mate to look into it.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Yes for DBA, and HOTT, no for DBM, DBMM.

IanS

[count_zero99uk]

Did some shopping

DBA, DBM, 4 army lists, DBR, 3 army lists, 2 scenario books, and DBF

Looks fun.

Now to find figures, had a quick look and couldnt see biblical on pendraken, am i wrong?

Ta.

[going a-viking]

Phil Barker and Richard Bodley Scott have gone their separate ways after DBM.

Version 2 of DBMM (Phil Barker) has been published. There are four sets of army lists. Version 1 and the first three sets are published by Caliver Books. Version 2 and the four set of lists are published by WRG. The (unofficial) web site is http://dbmm.org.uk. This includes a forum.

FOG (Richard Bodley Scott, et al) is published by Osprey and Slitherine Software. Version 2 is in Beta Test. FOG Renaissance is available and the army lists are being published. FOG Napoleonic is on the way. The official web site is http://www.fieldofglory.com/. This includes a forum.

.. DBMM is totally inco[m]prehensible ...

I disagree: the rules are written as a reference document rather that a tutorial. The Flames of War rulebook is much worse.

[SV52]

For anyone worried about the dire warnings of DBA's complexity and impenetrability, have a look at this:

http://www.wadbag.com/DBAGuide/

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

It's DBMM thats complex, due to the 'orrible writing stytle.

IanS