ww2 Infantry Squad with two machineguns

[steve_holmes_11]

I'm working on a set of "company skirmish" rules for ww2.
Each section/squad weapons team is a single stand.
Almost everything works fairly well.

I'm seeking advice about one specific: Squads with two light machineguns.

I've found three specific instances all a bit different.
 * German armoured or parachute infantry: 2 GPMGs lots of firepower.
 * Italian platoons, with 2 very large squadra: each 2 groups - one with 2 LMG the other with 10 rifles.
 * Soviet Spring 1943 platoons: 2 light squads (1 LMG), 2 Heavy Squads (2 LMG).

I'm unclear about 2 things: How these operated and how much extra the second LMG provided.


The Guesswork I'm using at present:

Germans: 
A bit of an exceptional case for specialist troops - almost like an MMG team.
There won't be many balanced games with these guys.

Italians:
The organisation looks like a hangover form WW1 practice, square organisations and concentrated machineguns.
It's 2 fairly inferior LMGs - I'm tempted to run the MG group like a regular infantry squad.
Can anybody persuade me they deserve special treatment.

Soviets:
I'm not convinced this organisation made it beyond the paperwork stage.
(And the nervous commissars who briefed Uncle Joe).
I also notice the similarity to the Italian platoon (Though with six LMGs instead of two).
The simple approach is (again) to treat all squads the same - unless there's evidence otherwise.


Finally, can anybody reference the ways squads used a pair of LMGs?
I can imagine three - none exclusive of the others.
    1. Open fire at greater range then normal.
    2. More sustained firepower, one gun covering gaps in the others barrel changes.
    3. More rounds when brassing up suspected or located enemy.

I'd welcome any advice.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Steve the german doctrine was that the primary weapon was the LMG/s and riflemen were local protection for it/them. Also needed to lug all the ammo belts needed. Given the law of diminishing returns I'd reckon on 33-50% more fire power if  the section has 2 weapons. Remember the the 34/42 really need two men to work them, so the bulk of the section would be on the guns.

Italians well given the oiled cartridges in their weapons one probably has a stopage !

Russians - no idea for them.

[sultanbev]

Most squads of the era are split into a rifle group and an LMG group. When a squad has 2 LMG, then both groups have an LMG. Usually.
The Italian platoon of 4 squads, 2 of which have 2 LMG each is a different.


There are more instances of 2 LMG per squad than most people know, and, no, the Germans didn't start it.
1) 1940 French Dragon Portes have 2 LMG per squad. As there were only 3 battalions of these in the entire army, it is understandable that it is overlooked.

2) Some Belgian squads in motorised units have half-sections with 1 or 2 BAR.
3) British in Normandy and Italy often acquired extra Brens, typically a platoon will have up to 7 Bren LMG (2 per squad + 1 in PHQ), or 2 platoons might have 6 with the third platoon the standard 3.
4) US companies were issued extra BAR and bazookas after Normandy, to be allocated as desired, so you might have 2 platoons with 6 BAR each and 1 platoon with the standard 3. US Paras and Armoured Infantry weren't meant to have any at all, but they "acquired" all MGs that they could.
5) 1941 Russian Motorcycle Battalions of Mechanised Corps had 15 LMG per platoon (!) on paper, although the actual number was far less.
6) Late war Russians often had 2 LMG per squad in 1-3 platoons of a company, even if one of the platoons was SMG equipped. Or it could be 2 squads within a platoon with 2 LMG, the other with none or 1 LMG; in the first two platoons.
7) There is a unit with 3 LMG to a squad but I can't remember which one now.
Many of the German units scraped together to defeat the Paras at Arnhem were often all MG13/MG34/42 equipped, so you might have 5 LMG and 1 SMG in a squad, randomly.

So, the reality is squads often had 2 LMG even when the paperwork said there should only be 1, especially late war. But as mentioned above, the war started with some units have 2 per squad on paper. I have examples in the MicroMark lists. It wasn't an exceptional thing, and wargames rules should allow for it.


Of the options suggested, opening fire at a longer range would not be one of the options. Options 2 and 3, yes.
Tactically a 2 LMG squad would have one firing whilst the other reloaded, or double the firepower in an assault, or allows the squad to split and become 2 mini squads, one LMG group firing whilst the other moves/relocates, then swapping a few seconds later.

The Italian method is a bit unique, but I have used it successfully in my own games - having 4 LMG in 2 squads at the right point can be quite effective. Note their August 1943 TOE abandoned this and went to the normal 4 LMG per platoon, 1 per squad, but their war ended before it could be implemented.

At the other end of the scale, some pre-war organisations were still extant, eg some British units had plain rifle sections and multiple Lewis MG in one squad, these would act more like a mobile MMG team supporting the rifle squads.

[steve_holmes_11]

Thanks:

Sultanbev's post reminded me that the British Carrier Platoon also has a high ratio of Brens to men.

The early war doctrine appears to be "We invested in wheels / tracks for these chaps - so let's give them worthwhile firepower".


I'm considering two approaches.

1. Ignore the second machinegun, and keep the game tidy.

2. Do something, but only for cases that matter.
    a) 2 x MG-42 is a big deal.
    b) 2 x Bredas might be about as good as a single "best in class" LMG.
    c) 2 x Degtayarev probably never happened.