Wheels and walls

[kustenjaeger]

Rather than clutter up the errata thread I thought I would ask a design question.

I don't yet have the rules so apologies if I have gathered something incorrectly.

With walls (other than around area terrain?) now being considered open terrain for wheeled and tracked, what sort of walls are being talked about?  I can see low garden walls or - at platoon scale - walls where there are in fact a lot of openings eg gates not physically represented on table, being a relatively limited barrier to SF vehicles.

Fences are easier to knock down so at platoon scale I can certainly see not being a significant barrier.

On a 1:1 scale wheeled vehicles and walls do not play well together. One of my daughter's friends was a passenger in a car accidentally driven through a field wall in Ireland at speed a few years ago - the car ended up on its roof in a field with the Garda being amazed no one was killed or seriously injured.

Edward

[Big Insect]

Hi Edward
This is one of the challenges with wargames rules terrain overall.
When is a 'wall' a problem to a wheeled or tracked vehicle, and when is it not?

I agree with you that even my much loved and increasingly ancient small Audi A2 could probably demolish a 6ft wooden fence quite happily. It will struggle with a 6ft brick or stone garden wall, although that would depend upon how well the wall was built.
However, if I am in a Saracen armoured personnel carrier (specifically the FV603 model) which had a combat weight of approximately 10 to 11 tonnes (for example) I suspect that it would make short work of even the 12 foot double width stone wall at the rear of my garden, and a combat ready Challenger II, which is is going to weigh c.75 tonnes would easily make short work of even a 12 foot breeze-block wall.

As, with all the Commander rules, we are also looking at a platoon/squadron of such armoured vehicles, then any such 'wall' is going to need to be particularly significant to cause these heavy (but Average profile) AFV/AFU's any real challenge. Which was the thinking behind the (slightly bumbled) changes in FWCII.

However, such walls will probably provide adequate cover for smaller AFUs and for Infantry elements, and cause an equally challenging movement obstacle to both.

Historically, the FWCI approach was always a pragmatic one. In the group I play with the terrain and its effect are generally agreed upon by all participants at the start of the game. So if a 'Wall' is particularly large or thick or even has been designed to be like a fortification, then that is discussed, agreed upon and that is the way it is played during that game.

Producing a fully definitive set of unit/terrain rules, that also covers visibility and defensive effect is a major and probably an impossible and thankless task. All Commander rules are games rules, not simulations. And especially with FWC the permutations are almost infinite.
A field of Sorghum or Bamboo or Sugar Cane (or similar large close-growing crop plants) might offer almost impassable movement terrain to infantry, but an AFV will go through it relatively easily (if it is not Grav or Hover). Likewise, it impedes visibility (even with modern ranging technology) but has little effect on solid projectiles, but might impede lasers or pulse weapons where the energy is defused into the vegetation. And that is just one example I can immediately come up with.

I think the whole issue of terrain with the Commander rules, is a really great topic to be debated on this thread/forum. And whilst the intention within FWCII was to remove the challenge that 'Walls' specifically have on tracked and wheeled vehicles - I'm always open to player feedback and suggestion - especially if based upon game-play based experiance.

Thanks
Mark