Base sizes 10mm?

[Inactive]

Still waiting for the book to arrive and I've decided to go 10mm for BKC.  I've searched using multiple terms here (I also looked at the FB Group too but I'm not sure if that is still active, submitted a join request a few days ago but nothing yet) and I only really turned up one meaningful post on this.  There used to be another Pendraken forum but I'm guessing that's gone now, IIRC there was masses of information there, I remember it from BKC I days before I took a 10 year plus break from gaming.

One the subject of 10mm figure basing, I understand that there's no fixed sizes in BKC but there are some suggested sizes and templates for HE and such like.  While any basing would work I want to make sure I don't mess up the game by using base sizes that screw up template size design.

The suggested basing for BKC from what I can gather is around the 50 x 25 and 50 x 50 size mark.  I also plan to use the figures for O-Group and, while the 50 x 25 for infantry would be usable, I'm not sure I like the look of 50 x 25 bases width wise.  I was contemplating using 30 x 30 sizes for infantry simply so that infantry advancing behind tanks would look more like they are trying to conceal themselves LOS wise, rather than deliberately fanning out to be visible, especially given that 1 tank = 1 platoon of tanks and one infantry base the same.  30 x 30 though does seem a bit small so I came to the idea go 40 x 20 or 40 x 25.  30 x 30 is perhaps OK but doesn't look like a platoon fanning out to lay down fire.  Can't have it both ways I suppose, other try to conceal when advancing or fan out to form a fire base.  It may also be that, not having read the mechanics, I'm unduly concerned about the effect when being fired on, insomuch as it may not matter whether the base is 30 or 50mm wide at all.

At the end of the day any sizes will work within reason I guess, my main concern is that I don't mess up game design mechanics with regard to things being more or less visible that they were intended to be.  Of course smaller bases can be spread out to avoid being caught too much under the existing template sizes but I just want to be certain I don't inadvertently break anything else by veering away from the suggested sizes at all.

[fred.]

I used 50x30mm bases for BKC infantry, and 30x50mm bases for Armour and other larger vehicles. I went slightly larger for infantry mainly to make my logistics of base supply easier! The infantry bases have 5-6 figures on them.

For my WWI forces I have gone with 30x30mm bases with 3 figures. 

I'm using the 50x30mm bases for O Group - but they are probably a bit big so a platoon ends up with 3 bases in a T shape - rather than something a bit more organic if they were smaller. I think the 10mm figures in the O group book are on 30mm rounds. 

I'm no longer a fan of 40x20mm probably as used this size too much for Warmaster and find it a bit awkward for getting figures on with a bit of terrain. 

I don't think you will break anything in BKC by choosing any of the base sizes you suggest. There is nothing that says bases need to be close together. So any bunching is down to the player wanting to concentrate troops and they can do that with any size of base. 

Having written all of the above, I don't really feel I have a recommendation of what base size to choose. I think my steer would be go for what looks right to you. 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I use 30x30 for 6mm vehicles, mostly 30x20 for the infantry. I'd suggest 30x40 for 10mm vehicles and 40x20 for infantry.

[Raider4]

I'm no longer a fan of 40x20mm probably as used this size too much for Warmaster and find it a bit awkward for getting figures on with a bit of terrain.

40x20mm is great for <20th century stuff, but not for more modern, 'looser' types of formations.

I've never played the game, but I am a fan of the basing used in Flames of War.

The medium base is nominally a 50x32mm. For 10mm I've used 70% size, so 35x22mm.

[Steve J]

I use 50 x 25 for infantry, 25 x 25 for HQ's and infantry support weapons, such as mg's and mortars. Larger anti-tank guns on 25 x 50. Some of the bigger on table artillery pieces and CO as 50 x 50. I leave my vehicles unbased. Hope this helps?

[Ithoriel]

Consistency is probably more important than overall size when it comes to basing, though I have played perfectly satisfactory games of BKC against opponents with quite different basing for their forces.

I use 40x20mm for infantry and as close as I can get to 20x40 for artillery and vehicles. Bigger tanks may need a 25x50 base, my German 88mm is on a 40x40mm base. 6 infantry, a pair of MGs or Mortars, a single tank or gun per base. 6 figures per infantry base was an aide-mémoire that the bases had 6 hits, nothing more significant.

Based infantry and unbased  vehicles look weird to me but each to their own.

Command stands are vignettes. The disk with a number is the basic command value.

My force has grown since the picture was taken but this gives an idea of how my options look.

[Genom]

I used 40x20 for my 10mm infantry (4-5 per base) as that's what I'd used for all of my Warmaster stuff but I think a deeper base would be much better.  I did my 6mm CWC stuff on 35x25 and that looks much more realistic for the period.

[Sean Clark]

Consistency is probably more important than overall size when it comes to basing, though I have played perfectly satisfactory games of BKC against opponents with quite different basing for their forces.

I use 40x20mm for infantry and as close as I can get to 20x40 for artillery and vehicles. Bigger tanks may need a 25x50 base, my German 88mm is on a 40x40mm base. 6 infantry, a pair of MGs or Mortars, a single tank or gun per base. 6 figures per infantry base was an aide-mémoire that the bases had 6 hits, nothing more significant.

Based infantry and unbased  vehicles look weird to me but each to their own.

Command stands are vignettes. The disk with a number is the basic command value.

My force has grown since the picture was taken but this gives an idea of how my options look.

That's a lovely looking army.

[Sean Clark]

At the end of the day any sizes will work within reason I guess, my main concern is that I don't mess up game design mechanics with regard to things being more or less visible that they were intended to be.  Of course smaller bases can be spread out to avoid being caught too much under the existing template sizes but I just want to be certain I don't inadvertently break anything else by veering away from the suggested sizes at all.

I think you've answered your own question here. I'm in the same boat as you, coming back to BKC after a long time away and I have agonised over this question. I did think about 30x30, but have gone 40x20 in the end, just from an aesthetic point of view. My mg's will be on 20x20, command stands on probably 30x30/40x40 and vehicles on what will ever fit.

My first project is SCW and I have some Polish and Germans for 1939 to rebase to this scheme too. Good luck with whatever you decide and enjoy your gaming.

[John Cook]

I occasionally use an earlier version of BKC and my bases, intended for completely different rules, work perfectly OK with BKC.  I can't comment on the latest version but I found BKC to be a dynamic and very adaptable set of rules that can be used with various sizes of bases, as demonstrated by this thread.  Here, for what it is worth, are the dimensions for my SCW and early WW2 bases.

Infantry/cavalry  40mm x 25mm
MG, mortar, anti-tank gun  30mm x 25mm
One Light artillery piece up to 105mm  30mm x 35mm
One Medium/Heavy artillery piece over 105mm  40mm x 45mm
AFV and SSV  25mm x 40mm
Formation HQ  40mm x 50mm

[Inactive]

Super helpful replies, thanks so much!

As I mentioned I need to base in a way that is acceptable for more than one rule set albeit the primary 'other' is O-Group.  O-group is largely basing agnostic with, IIRC, just the one suggestion that assaulting infantry should be on a frontage of around 100mm.  That's around 100mm though so I think 80-120 would also be fine.  In some examples the Coy HQs are on FOW medium bases with the platoons on FOW small but I think that's just aesthetic choice and being able to differentiate between unit types rather than any rules impact.

One thing I'm considering doing is trying to to get some standardisation in at least one of the dimensions, I doubt it's essential but it might be pleasing on the eye rather than everything on different sizes.  Second thing I'm thinking is that I'm not that keen on 50mm long bases for vehicles or guns unless the size of the piece demands it.  Final consideration is do I base some units on round bases where that unit is maybe a HQ type AND it cannot fire and therefore needs no firing arcs.

Taking all that into account and noting the comments some have made about 20mm bases possibly not being deep enough (albeit I have hundreds of them) I think that one dimension I can standardise is 25mm for the width / depth of most units.  Not being keen on the 50mm length of vehicle bases I will probably opt for 40mm for the other dimension. That would give something like:

Infantry: 40 x 25 mm
Guns and large AFVs: 25 x 40 mm (with an option of 50 x 30 if essential for very large vehicles)
HW Teams / FO / FAO etc.: 25 x 25 mm
Command Units: 40 x 40 mm
Army Command 50 x 50

I did ponder using 40 x 30 too, might be a bit too deep for infantry but might fit well for tanks etc.  trouble is I don't want any more units than I need using a different base size and 40 x 30 (again I have loads) is only 5mm deeper than 40 x 25.

If they will fit I'm also pondering putting smaller vehicles, jeeps, SdKfz 222 and such like on 25 x 25 mm bases.  Before deciding though I'll wait for the rules to arrive to see whether you target the base or the vehicle.  If the base is targeted I'm conscious a smaller base gives some vehicles an advantage but if I'm providing both armies there's no issue anyway if both sides are exactly the same. I do think that a jeep would look a bit lost on a 25 x 50. I could double small vehicles up but that would look a bit odd to me too.

Only other issue than is whether I put anything on round bases.  If I did I would have to refresh my memory for O-Group and read BKC to see what units it would apply to.  Might be useful if it's the same units in both rule sets that can't be targeted / attacked or can't shoot (and thus don't need arcs) but if it's just FOs or whatever it perhaps just breaks up the symmetry of the rest of the army too much.

Finally, I also have a load of FOW MDF bases in various sizes which will now not get used so they will also be an option if I find that some of the non-FOW base sizes I'm pondering get a bit tight.  I do quite like the rounded corners of FOW bases.  For O-Group, where a base is a section, I pondered using 2 medium bases and one small (representing a platoon HQ) in a 2 forward one back formation.  For BKC that won't work however given each base is a platoon. I really want to avoid the hassle of creating separate infantry basing needs for different games.  At the end of the day, there's no need for the platoon Cdr to go on a small base, it was just my way of getting use out of the already based 15mm figures I have. If I went the FOW base route it would likely be small bases for the platoons with a medium for the group commanders. 

While I like the rounded corners of FOW bases they are less easy to cut the magnetic sheet I use for magnetising the bases.  This time though I'm thinking of going with 3mm x 2mm neodymium magnets (which I can buy cheaper than the magnetic sheet) and drilling a 3mm hole in each base in the centre.  Buddy of mine did it for some other figures but stopped because every now and then he had a magnet pull out and pull the basing material with it.  I get round that by cutting up small squares from plastic food containers and gluing that over the magnet hole before basing.  That way the magnet would just detach, not damage the base.  It's a bit of extra work but it's seconds really once you have tub full of plastic squares.

I'll think on it some more and try out a few units on the various base size before deciding.  Currently I change my mind every hour.  Just when I think I've got it finalised I get a "ah but what about....." moment

[fred.]

In both games you need to be able to tell command units apart from combat units. Square bases are typically used for this in BKC - but round would work too.

It does very much depend on which vehicles you are basing up as to the size of bases needed. And probably having a small size for carriers, tankettes and jeeps is sensible, as well as having a larger size for trucks and tanks. 

Guns also vary in size a lot

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

I use 2 vehicles for HQ's and 3 for CO's with several dioramas for repair shops and Div HQ's in 6mm. Thats for CWC but a similar approach would work for BKC as well.

[Inactive]

In both games you need to be able to tell command units apart from combat units. Square bases are typically used for this in BKC - but round would work too.

It does very much depend on which vehicles you are basing up as to the size of bases needed. And probably having a small size for carriers, tankettes and jeeps is sensible, as well as having a larger size for trucks and tanks.

Guns also vary in size a lot

Yes I'm starting to think I might bin the idea of round bases.  I could do it and I could 'validate' (for want of a better word) the decision to do it but it's throwing another base shape onto the table, possibly needlessly. 

The command stands will definitely be easily identifiable.  In O-Group the Battalion HQ doesn't actually need to be a stand (it's a function not a playable unit), it's essentially a place to keep count of Batt HQ orders and artillery. Most use a diorama for it though, I intend to do the same, around 50 x 50mm so it will fit for both games.  I'll do a command vehicle or two and /or a ruined sandbagged building with map table etc etc.  Company Commanders are playable and need to be identifiable, so the same unit can easily be use as unit group command in BKC (in Black Powder they would be Brigade Commanders, not sure of the term in BKC, Commanders?).  For those I think likely 40 x 40 with maybe a vehicle of some sort.  The exact square shape (vs rectangle) and large size will denote them as command stands.

FOs / HW teams etc I plan to use 25 x 25 bases or even 30 x 30 if I end up opting for infantry on 40 x 30.  Guns and tanks will be on whatever size is needed to accommodate them, even a 40 x 40 or a 50 x 50 (if needed for an 88 or whatever), it won't take a rocket scientist to work out that it's not a command base.  I did consider basing 2 HW teams on a standard infantry base (facing the long edge) but in O-Group they will work better based as individuals, it won't take too much to be able to tell an FO or sniper from an HMG or Mortar team.


It's coming together slowly, I just really wanted to give it some thought so I don't have a 'Doh!' moment as I'm basing the last unit.  After they are all based if I think I may have done one or two things slightly differently, tough!  Giving it plenty of thought now should mean there won't be that much of a problem.  The comments here are helping immensely.

[Steve J]

I use square stands for HQ's and the CO, but round ones for the FAO, FAC nad Infantry Recce. Easy to differentiate when on the table.