Cavalry questions

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Still do

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Indeed, in WWII the penants show squadron, troop and commanders. Probably the same today.

[Heedless Horseman]

Still do

But, why? Tradition, recognition? A Red and yellow flag hardly 'camo'... so exercise only? Pennant wouldn't last long in trees / blast. Hence painted markings.
Does ultra modern armour have some sort of IFF on weapons systems? Do not have any idea!

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Tradition I guess.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

As to electronics you'd have to as a current tankee. Moving tanks can't be camoflagued, they is big. Penants were supposed to indicate troops and squadrons quickly by sight. They so still have the geomentric shapes on turret sides, and call signs on turret rears.

[Heedless Horseman]

Sorry, can' t post the pic... a FB posting.
But have now seen a Horse / Dragon!  
Green and with Scales!  
Now, could have been 'photoshopped' , but pic showed horse being led, so think it a 'show' entry with an enormous amount of work done!
Just a thought for 'Fantasy' converters / painters!  
For 'Fantasy' no reason why not Green / Blue/ / Pink Horses! LOL!  

Or... you could REALLY put someone 'off stride' with your Cuirassiers... 

[FierceKitty]

Sorry, can' t post the pic... a FB posting.
But have now seen a Horse / Dragon!  
Green and with Scales!  
Now, could have been 'photoshopped' , but pic showed horse being led, so think it a 'show' entry with an enormous amount of work done!
Just a thought for 'Fantasy' converters / painters!  
For 'Fantasy' no reason why not Green / Blue/ / Pink Horses! LOL!  

Or... you could REALLY put someone 'off stride' with your Cuirassiers...  

And in reality. Polish hussars often dyed their horses, and I've read a wonderful account of how an Indian lent his grey to a cousin for a wedding; he was within his rights, since by the current system he owned the horse, but it came back painted with indelible multi-coloured spots. The Colonel Sahib was not amused. American tribesmen, of course, painted their horses as enthusiastically as themselves.

[Heedless Horseman]

Ooh! The Polish 'Hussars' have never been a field of interest... but, having googled, WOW! Some boys!
Any idea if Dye was 'to conform' to unit... or for 'extravagant effect'... colours?

[steve_holmes_11]

Sorry, can' t post the pic... a FB posting.
But have now seen a Horse / Dragon!  
Green and with Scales!  
Now, could have been 'photoshopped' , but pic showed horse being led, so think it a 'show' entry with an enormous amount of work done!
Just a thought for 'Fantasy' converters / painters!  
For 'Fantasy' no reason why not Green / Blue/ / Pink Horses! LOL!  

Or... you could REALLY put someone 'off stride' with your Cuirassiers...  

The Khmer (and maybe other SE Asian armies) did employ "Dragon cavalry".
I hope I don't disappoint any readers by stating these were horses with masks and bits attached.
This probably worked because the locals believed in dragon horses.

Here's Irregular's interpretation




I never considered this lot in a gaming context:

[Big Insect]

The Khmer (and maybe other SE Asian armies) did employ "Dragon cavalry".
I hope I don't disappoint any readers by stating these were horses with masks and bits attached.
This probably worked because the locals believed in dragon horses.

Here's Irregular's interpretation

Sadly the so called Khmer 'Dragon' horses are even more of a myth than you might think.

Having been out to Cambodia and seen the actual carvings at Angkor and Bayon - the horses are not armoured in dragon armour at all - they are just very poorly rendered sculptures of horses (which were not at all common in Cambodia/Lao/Vietnam at this era). The western (wargamers) myth about 'Dragon Horses' comes from the WRG interpretation of the drawings by Michel Jacq-Hergoualc'h, in his book Armies of Angkor, where he 'creatively' interprets the Khmer carvings as being dragon-horses.

It's all a bit like non-existent Khmer light chariots - sculptures of which appear in great numbers on the Khmer monuments - but only in the sacred, mythical or religious friezes. These were mostly carved by 'imported' Celanese or Tamil sculptors employed by the Khmer God King, who brought their own traditional carving subject matter with them. Also there are as many chariots pulled by elephants, rhinos, lions, fish, crocodiles and garudas (mythical semi-human griffon-like creatures)* as there are ones drawn by horses. Some of the chariots are also drawn by 4 horse as well - but sculpted face-on - which is a really creative way of rendering them visually. All the purely military, historical friezes show only Infantry (spearmen, swordsmen, archers and crossbowmen) and Elephants in large numbers and very few cavalry - mostly in what appears to be a scouting or ADC type of role.
Even the cavalry depicted in the various allied contingents on The Bayon monument have very few cavalry in proportion to infantry and elephants. Horses generally don't do well in the heat and humidity of S.E.Asia. The only one we saw in 3 weeks in Cambodia looked very sorry for itself indeed!


Talking about another type of 'filly' - it's a bit like the inclusion of topless maiden guard in Khmer armies - more complete nonsense - where such figures are depicted they are again shown in the religious sections of the carvings - usually accompanying a Hindu deity in a heavenly battle.

NB: Khmer armies are an area of specialist research on my part - so sorry to bore on about it  

*an C11th Chinese source does refers to Khmer noble women being run-around down-town Angkor in 2 wheeled mini-chariots - pulled by a pair of goats! Now there's a modelling opportunity!!!

[steve_holmes_11]

I think we can now agree that the WRG lists included some wishful thinking and liberal interpretations form art.
The one friends and I still chuckle about is (I think another East Asian army).

"Classed as regular since the wall sculpture depicts them marching in step".

It must get pretty boring composing 400+ lists.
The temptation to add a bit of variety to each one (I'm thinking of all the "Dark/Migration age Germanic tribes) must be hard to resist.

Otherwise 90% of lists would be.
200 Tribesmen.
12 nobles either on horses or with better armour.


Let's do Indian Chariots next.
Several sacred poem cycles, one battle against Alexander and a selection "deity on cart" sculptures.

[Big Insect]

Let's do Indian Chariots next.
Several sacred poem cycles, one battle against Alexander and a selection "deity on cart" sculptures.

Indeed ... also lots of semi-naked/completely naked young ladies in various 'interesting' poses on assorted sculptures as well - but none in chariots as far as I am aware 

or

the effectiveness of super weapons - such as Roman anti-elephant wagons/carts - for example

[Ithoriel]

"Classed as regular since the wall sculpture depicts them marching in step".

Yes, not possibly to do with sculptors banging out clones for ease and speed of production

Let's do Indian Chariots next.
Several sacred poem cycles, one battle against Alexander and a selection "deity on cart" sculptures.

I don't have the skill to read original sources but my understanding is that we have enough evidence of chariots to be certain they existed. States short of elephants, in particular, seem to have relied on chariots as a cheaper alternative.

I also believe at least one text suggests that if horses are in short supply, oxen can be substituted as chariot draught animals. Not sure how you represent that in DBA terms.

Even the much maligned Sumerian battle cars weren't reduced to employing "battle cattle" as draught animals!!

[FierceKitty]

Ooh! The Polish 'Hussars' have never been a field of interest... but, having googled, WOW! Some boys!
Any idea if Dye was 'to conform' to unit... or for 'extravagant effect'... colours?

Probably henna, for flamboyant chestnut red effects. As far as uniformity goes, it would be difficult to assemble enough greys to get everyone mounted that way. But uniform pennants in a unit, and possible cloaks, look acceptable from contemporary Polish paintings.

[Big Insect]

Even the much maligned Sumerian battle cars weren't reduced to employing "battle cattle" as draught animals!!

I must admit I thought they were pulled by squids - or should that be equids!

[Ithoriel]

I must admit I thought they were pulled by squids - or should that be equids!

Onagers ... I thought they were invented by the Romans .... presumably they catapulted the battle cars into the action?