Great Wargaming Survey

[John Cook]

This argument, in my opinion, is about as gratuitous as they come, not least because, if the point of an argument is to change others' points of view, it has next to no chance of succeeding.  Be that as it may, the English language is a most expressive, dynamic and wonderful thing, superior to all others, such that I think we all understand the meaning of 'Fantasy', 'Science Fiction', 'Historical' and 'Wargame', without looking for definitions in the Oxford English Dictionary, the single authority on the English language.  It seems to me that all are concerned with war, to one degree or another, and all are games.  I don't care for 'science fiction' or 'fantasy' games, but that is neither here nor there.  I've also never understood the attraction of Tolkien, Heinlein et al, as literature or film.  Lots of people do but as far as I know it isn't mandatory.

[Chris Pringle]

My 2 OWG* worth:

Fantasy wargaming is not an oxymoron. A game of a fantasy war is a fantasy wargame.

Any wargame (fantasy or not) may or may not be tosh aka nonsense.

A fantasy wargame that takes some fantastical premise as a given (eg that dragons exist, or that wizards can cast spells) can still have sound internal logic that means it is not nonsense. Dragons and other monsters can have stats that fit in the same logical structure as other troop types and enable them to interact in logical ways. Magic can be powered by magic points that are acquired and spent in logical ways, there can be logic to spell effects, and again these can interact logically with the troops and monsters. Such games are fantasy but not necessarily nonsensical.

A wargame that purports to represent a historical battle may or may not be nonsense. When people get the terrain or order of battle grossly wrong, that's tosh.

Chris

*Official Wizard Groats

[T13A]

Well I would bet on my Chieftain against any number of wizards, dragons etc. who were able to turn up!      

(and buy them a drink afterwards).

Cheers Paul

[Ithoriel]

Mines a pint of Krugg then...

Krug Grande Cuvée 169ème Édition, Krug Grande Cuvée 168ème Édition, Krug Grande Cuvée 167ème Édition or Krug Grande Cuvée 166ème Édition?

And no chugging it down like a yard of ale!

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

167em. Merci

[Raider4]

Well I would bet on my Chieftain against any number of wizards, dragons etc. who were able to turn up!      

Casts Rust . . .

[Steve J]

Well I used my voucher to buy a couple of WWS back issue pdf's, which only cost me £1.50 after said voucher applied . I must admit the older of the two issues was much more interesting that a more recent one, the latter trying to cover too much ground IMHO, where the former was themed for most of the issue.

[FierceKitty]

I'll have a tosh and soda, please.

[steve_holmes_11]

Casts Rust . . .

I was thinking Heat Metal.

[T13A]

Hi

Well, I would still back my Chieftain against anybody in a pointy hat, jumping up and down waving a stick and shouting "Cast Rust" or "Heat metal"! 



"Tango One Three Alpha, Out"!

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

And 120mm solid should put paid to any dragon

"Sabot - LOAD LOAD LOAD"

"Loaded"

"Lase"

"Range 2000"

"On"

"Fire"

"Firing"

"New Target Dragon Right 2 o'clock"


Etc.

[sultanbev]

See Grunts by Mary Gentle to see what happens when T-55s meet Orcs...

[Ithoriel]

FIFY

"Sabot - LOAD LOAD LOAD"

"Loaded"

"Lase"

"Range 2000"

"On"

"Fire"

"Firing"

"Sir, Sir, it's flipped the shot right back at us!"

"INCOMING!!!!!"

Etc.

Cue "Thunder Child" by Jeff Wayne

[fsn]

Hmmm.   

Seems to me by "fantasy" we just mean magic and monsters. Given Arthur C Clarke's 3rd Law "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic", we can lump the majority of SF into the fantasy category by analogy, where technology and aliens take the place of magic and monsters.

Thereafter, the lines get blurry. Many Conan stories involve neither magic nor monsters, just humans fighting with swords and spears. Similarly if one gamed "Journey to the Centre of the Earth" then one would simply be joining two historical periods - Victorian and pre-History. One could argue that "A Very British Civil War" is fantasy, as it is not a historical period. "1946" was also a period of interest for a while in which one could field the Maus and the Ratte. Is that fantasy?

While we're at it, let's look at the term "wargame". Hopefully we can agree that all the the activities are "games", but what is a "war"? Would a Norse raid upon a Saxon village be a "war"? What about the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland? The exploits of Captain Kidd? The Oxford Online Dictionary describes war as "a situation in which two or more countries or groups of people fight against each other over a period of time." That covers the mob wars of 1920s Chicago, and my playground in 1969.

In the most basic sense, Chess is a Wargame*. It has elephants and chariots and horsemen and infantry; and figures to represent them - somewhat stylistic I grant, but more representational than a square of printed cardboard.


I'm not a "fantasy" fan in the traditional sense. I'll never field an army of elves, but I do appreciate the freedom of just picking a paint scheme I liked and nobody can say otherwise. Whereas I may get picked up for the inaccuracy of my Bavarian "Cornflower Blue", if my elves wear purple and orange there's nothing that says they can't. There's a freedom in Fantasy and SF that is not usually afforded to historical gamers. They appeal more to the realms of the imagination. I can design a space ship using the "High Guard" rules of "Traveller", but I don't know of any rule set that allows you to design your own 1939 battle cruiser.

Just as I won't game "fantasy", the Seven Years War holds no interest for me, not the American Revolution, nor the Gulf War, nor anything that happened South of Texas.

My Dragonhead game (which I've just realised I didn't finish off) pitted an Alien against a Centurion tank, and zombies against Flodden men at arms, with characters from 1960s TV series thrown in for good measure. It was very silly, and chaotic and great, great fun. The atmosphere of Dragonhead was totally different from when I refought the American Civil War battle from the Blessed Featherstone's "Wargames". 

So what am I saying? Our hobby is not one hobby. It is many. There are bits that interest me, and bits that don't. I'm not interested in computer wargames nor board wargames, and yet I shall not disparage someone who refights the American Revolution on a screen. Ultimately it is a set of activities that is to give us pleasure. If you want to do that with orcs and wizards, that's fine. If you want to use Chieftain tanks then ... (remind me, which war did they fight in?) ... that is also fine. A set of "Dragons and Chieftains" rules could be the new best seller.     


   

*Someone, possibly the Blessed Featherstone, described wargaming as "the Chess of A Thousand Pieces".

   

[paulr]

Well said Nobby

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Stop being so eloquent!

[steve_holmes_11]

Hi

Well, I would still back my Chieftain against anybody in a pointy hat, jumping up and down waving a stick and shouting "Cast Rust" or "Heat metal"! 



"Tango One Three Alpha, Out"!

Heat Metal
Choose a manufactured metal object, such as a metal weapon or a suit of heavy or medium metal armor, that you can see within range. You cause the object to glow red-hot. Any creature in physical contact with the object takes 2d8 fire damage when you cast the spell. Until the spell ends, you can use a Bonus Action on each of your subsequent turns to cause this damage again.

If a creature is holding or wearing the object and takes the damage from it, the creature must succeed on a Constitution saving throw or drop the object if it can. If it doesn't drop the object, it has disadvantage on Attack Rolls and Ability Checks until the start of your next turn.

At Higher Levels: When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd Level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for each slot above 2nd.


Not to mention the odds of stowed ammo cooking off, or the BV malfunctioning (A real disaster).

[steve_holmes_11]

Stop being so eloquent!

Yeah maan, why do you keep lifting us up like this.

[Techno II]

Computer chess is the nearest I get to gaming.

Trouble is...I just can't set an enjoyable 'level'....Up to a certain point it plays like a total dork...Tweak it in the slightest and it then plays like a grand master.

Cheers - Phil. 

[Chris Pringle]

Hi

Well, I would still back my Chieftain against anybody in a pointy hat, jumping up and down waving a stick and shouting "Cast Rust" or "Heat metal"! 



"Tango One Three Alpha, Out"!

Wouldn't you first have to roll D6 on the Chieftain Reliability Table?
1-3 = Won't start
4-6 = Breaks down

(I'm sure that in any fantasy universe with coherent internal logic there are equivalent tables for wizards and dragons ...)