Why are Wargames Rules so Complicated ... ?

[John Cook]

And that matters to me how, exactly? (not just talking about chess - applies to anything)

I have a suspicion that FK was not addressing you exclusively. 

[John Cook]

Not having bothered to read through the rest of the replies to me the answer is simple it is to try and thwart the "RULES LAWYERS" those persons who if it "isn't in the rules " will try totwist things to their advantage.

Indeed so.  That is the bane of most clubs, in my opinion.  The only club I've ever known where that wasn't the case was the group I belonged to in Germany thirty years ago which comprised a dozen members, all military from a colonel (late REME) to an RAF corporal, and just about every rank in between. 

There is also a complaint here, it seems, that dice are unreliable generators of random numbers because they are, somehow, partial.  I'm not sure that is possible for dice to favour one side over another, but it is certainly the case that most cheap commercially produced dice are biased because they are not uniformly dense.  This applies to standard dice, particularly the ones with rounded edges, and even more to those with multiple, ten or more, sides. 

A simple way to test them is to float them in a salt water solution and see what side they tend to return to after you've agitated them.  If they return to that same face more often than not they are not fair dice.  I tried this years ago in an attempt to produce a set of fair dice and found that so-called razor dice (sharp edges) used in casinos were far and away the fairest.  You get what you pay for – a set of half a dozen good casino-standard dice can cost up to £15.  But, even those produce bizarre and, frankly, unrealistic random results sometimes.  But, that is what they were intended to do in a gambling context – they were not intended for wargaming so one can't really complain.

So, if you must use dice, use casino-standard razor dice and make sure that every throw is on the same surface – that makes a difference too.

[mmcv]

I suspect there's a certain element of tongue in cheek when it comes to complaints over dice rolls, and if not, then someone is probably taking things a little too seriously! I'm sure there are some of those out there. Granted I'm speaking as a mostly solo gamer or when playing with others taking an approach of what makes sense and is fun over rule precision.

[Raider4]

I have a suspicion that FK was not addressing you exclusively. 

Yeah, I get that

I just fail to see how what other people think - even if they are clever - affects me - or you, or anyone else - when we're talking about a subjective opinion.

e.g. If I think that the Ramones are world's greatest ever rock band, it really doesn't matter to me if an enormous amount of people disagree.

Same with chess. I have an opinion on it's worth and enjoyment factor. Doesn't matter if everyone else agrees or disagrees.

[Raider4]

So, if you must use dice, use casino-standard razor dice and make sure that every throw is on the same surface – that makes a difference too.

And replace them often! I understand that they're quite brittle, and the straight edges will get chipped & rounded.

[John Cook]

Yeah, I get that

I just fail to see how what other people think - even if they are clever - affects me - or you, or anyone else - when we're talking about a subjective opinion.

e.g. If I think that the Ramones are world's greatest ever rock band, it really doesn't matter to me if an enormous amount of people disagree.

Same with chess. I have an opinion on it's worth and enjoyment factor. Doesn't matter if everyone else agrees or disagrees.

Well, if this was a forum about rock bands, then your opinion, in the context of the Ramones, would certainly be of interest in a discussion about their relative status in the ranking of rock bands.  As I have no interest in the subject, I might read it but would remain silent and pass no comment.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Ramones...
We talking Hard Rock, Classic Rock or Prog Rock?
It depends on the context.
In my opinion entirely they should rate highly because of the energetic foundation of the Punk movement and the development and inspiration of many bands after.
Top 20 certainly: Higher than the Pistols, behind Zed Lep and Floyd, but its all subjective.

[FierceKitty]

I'll take the hard place.

[Raider4]

Well, if this was a forum about rock bands, then your opinion, in the context of the Ramones, would certainly be of interest in a discussion about their relative status in the ranking of rock bands.  As I have no interest in the subject, I might read it but would remain silent and pass no comment.

/Sigh.

The point was my, or yours, or anyone's, opinion on anything subjective should not be influenced by whether many others share it or not.

[DHautpol]

10mm Ditchwater?

I would recommend Mod Podge, which looks like a thick PVA glue but dries clear with a reflective surface or, if you've not much to do, just apply PVA glue with a brush and let dry.  If you get the base colour right it looks very effective; I use Miniature Paints No.88 "Umber" as my base colour.

[DecemDave]

10mm Ditchwater?

I would recommend Mod Podge, which looks like a thick PVA glue but dries clear with a reflective surface or, if you've not much to do, just apply PVA glue with a brush and let dry.  If you get the base colour right it looks very effective; I use Miniature Paints No.88 "Umber" as my base colour.

Thanks. Not heard of that before so Mod podge duly ordered. I'll try a base of liquitex umber ink as that will automatically give various shades as I get on my 10mm horses.   Its true I don't have much to do which is why I am painting 2 ECW armies (just reached the wagons and sheep), and planning 2 WOTR/HYW ones, about a thousand peninsular non-Kickstarter, drawerfuls of other napoleonics and a collection of 1/72 plastics built up over decades!!   I might call myself a wargamer but a closer description would be "collector of unpainted minis"  prefaced by words like eccentric, hopeless,    ..     

[John Cook]

/Sigh.

The point was my, or yours, or anyone's, opinion on anything subjective should not be influenced by whether many others share it or not.

Couldn't disagree more.  Other people's opinion are often valuable. 

[Ithoriel]

Other peoples experience and research may be valuable, their opinions aren't worth spit, IMHO, ..... mine included.

[John Cook]

Other peoples experience and research may be valuable, their opinions aren't worth spit, IMHO, ..... mine included.

I think you probably underestimate yourself.   It depends on how that opinion was arrived at does it not? 
An informed opinion is a judgement derived from critical thinking.  It is the rational conclusion to an argument based on the analysis of the evidence used to support it.  It is what everybody does on a daily basis, even if it is just a simple mental process, such as determining if it is safe to cross the road, for example. 
An uninformed opinion, on the other hand, is as you describe, though it can be thought provoking and a basis of discussion on forums, like this one, and elsewhere, even, I suppose, as a premise for an argument that leads to an informed opinion. 

[Big Insect]

Thanks. Not heard of that before so Mod podge duly ordered. I'll try a base of liquitex umber ink as that will automatically give various shades as I get on my 10mm horses.   Its true I don't have much to do which is why I am painting 2 ECW armies (just reached the wagons and sheep), and planning 2 WOTR/HYW ones, about a thousand peninsular non-Kickstarter, drawerfuls of other napoleonics and a collection of 1/72 plastics built up over decades!!   I might call myself a wargamer but a closer description would be "collector of unpainted minis"  prefaced by words like eccentric, hopeless,    ..      

I use Woodland Scenics E-Z Water (tm) C1206 - it comes as granules that you melt (I use old fast-food tinfoil containers that I heat the granules in - over a gas flame). But it is not cheap @ £15.75 for 473mL - but it goes a long way. When melted you quickly pour it into the puddles or ditch and it sets hard in seconds. It melts as a clear 'liquid' and as long as you don't over heat it, it is relatively bubble free.
What I usually do to represent muddy water is mix in some Dulux Kitchen Grease Proof 'Cookie Dough' coloured paint - which I put into the the foil tin just as the granules turn to liquid when heating them (I use Matt paint as I can then also use it to paint the mud on the banks). If you put a small amount of paint in and stir once quickly - you can (with experimentation) get an effect of mud swirling in the water. You can build up depth by adding layers - there are no visible lines between the layers. I have used it to good effect to embed items in it
(NB: I will add a photo later)

For larger muddy rivers I just paint the river section with the Cookie Dough coloured paint and then apply a few layers of gloss floor varnish to the surface - if you want some depth to the river you can use stained wood varnish with more layers painted on the deeper parts.

NB: .... how did a thread on wargames rules get onto ditchwater

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

(I use old fast-foot tinfoil containers
NB: .... how did a thread on wargames rules get onto ditchwater

1) how fast is your foot Mark

2) Styandard thread hijack.

I could have answered this on page 1 - I write em !!!

[Big Insect]

1) how fast is your foot Mark

Fast enough to modify/edit the post Ian 
(I am footbedexterous)

[DecemDave]

NB: .... how did a thread on wargames rules get onto ditchwater

The fault was mine.  Someone posted that something was as interesting as ditchwater and it triggered my question.   I now recognise I should have started a new thread. 
But thanks for the detailed and expert method. 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Dave - don't worry 'appens all ut time ! DON'T DO IT AGAIN 

[Leman]

Oh yes I will