ECW - what is realistic scenery?

[GridGame]

Most wargamers appear to take care to ensure that the opposing forces are reasonably compatible with history. However a question that has been bugging me is 'correct terrain'. Trying to research ECW battlefields (via the Net) seems to show three things
1] not always sure exactly where the battlefield was, or
2] the landscape in the locality at that time, although
3] some did appear to be big open areas (so plenty of room to manoeuvre cavalry).

I have been wargaming some ECW whilst my figures get painted. For terrain I use a pack of 'terrain cards' dealing 9 cards onto my grid + 1 spare. I use the spare as an option to replace one of the other 9. I have added pictures of the terrain selected for a recent game, I did use the spare card put an 'open space' in the central section rather than the 'copse & hedge' drawn.

When I played the game cavalry manoeuvres were limited to mainly the Royalist right flank.

And so the question: Am I unrealistically filling the game area with scenery?

A few points:
The red square is a group of farm buildings, and the 'white/grey square adjacent is an enclosed field.
6 Parliament units defended against the attack of 8 Royalist units. Parliament lost (badly).
I didn't put this on 'Batreps' as the forces are currently card markers.
Overhead shot.
From the Royalist side
From the Parliament side.

[Steve J]

As I understand it, the enclosures hadn't happened yet (or not to any great extent) to the the land was still very open by today's standards. There were some hedges, obviously fields and some woods, with the latter out of the way of the major battles. I would recommend looking at the following, as there is lots of info including maps, photos etc of each battle:

http://www.battlefieldstrust.com/resource-centre/civil-war/

[paulr]

An interesting terrain system and a very interesting question 

I look forward to more responses

[FierceKitty]

Hmmm, very important question, and one I admit I have too often overlooked. Certainly I have been struck in travelling in southern England that the countrysde, while beautiful, looks as if it would often severely restrict choices for cavalry operations. Perhaps the word "moor" in a number of important battles should be taken as a clue?

[Norm]

Can't go wrong with hedges, woods and low hills for this period. The process of land drainage  and some enclosure had started, so you would see less boggy / marshy land than had been prevalent in previous periods and hedge boundaries and ditches, marking the division of land was more prevalent.

The thing about this countryside is that it doesn't really have large expanses of totally flat land, there are undulations aplenty, a sort of low rolling landscape. In our wargames we are generally happy just to have all this as open, but it was this landscape that brought tactical nuance to battles as there were defensive positions on slight rises and if your army has around an 800 metres frontage, there is every chance that portions of that force will be out of view from other positions.

I was at the Bosworth battlefield centre (yes I know, wrong 'exact' location of the battle, but the area is much of a muchness) and on any point that you stand, other parts of the battlefield can feel high enough or low enough that the rises hold real tactical advantages and because some approached are obscured by undulations, you could no doubt suddenly find cavalry or infantry popping up close to you. I have always felt that in our games, although we generally show things as open, the dice is taking care of all of this, so rolling a 1 when the enemy appears 'obviously' vulnerable to fire, is likely just representing some of that ground obscurity etc.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Sorry Norm, not many hedges in the 17th century, enclosure didn't happen till later. More woods, and a town of any size would probably be fortified.

IanS

[GridGame]

All

Thanks for the input: looks like I need to do more research.

GridGame

[sunjester]

There is an illustration of the Battle of Naseby which was drawn a couple of years later for a book by Sir Thomas Fairfax's chaplain, Joshua Sprigge. It shows some hedged enclosures and a couple of what might be boundry hedges. There is a reasonable copy here https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail.php?acc=1977-04-44-1

[GridGame]

An interesting terrain system ...

Paulr - I feel a separate topic, coming soon, to give an explanation.

Regards GridGame

[mollinary]

Sorry Norm, not many hedges in the 17th century, enclosure didn't happen till later. More woods, and a town of any size would probably be fortified.

IanS

You are right that most of the enclosures took place in the eighteenth century, but there were already numerous hedges in many parts of England, and they featured prominently in many of the smaller battles in the West Country and Yorkshire,  as well as at the big battles of , Edgehill, 1st Newbury, Cheriton, Marston Moor, and Naseby.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Mollinary - in the 17th century, hedges were  a rare feature, which is why the one a Naseby is made note of. Occupied by Parliamentary dragons who had considerable effect on Royalist cavalry.

IanS

[FierceKitty]

I suspect dragons would have had a considerable effect of Alexandrian Hetairoi, Sassanid Pushtigban, Knights Templar, Hussar comrades, Takeda Samurai, and Seydlitz's cuirassiers all at once!

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Almost as frightening as hefalumps or wozzels I would think !

[mollinary]

Mollinary - in the 17th century, hedges were  a rare feature, which is why the one a Naseby is made note of. Occupied by Parliamentary dragons who had considerable effect on Royalist cavalry.

IanS

Ian, I am sorry, mate, but they appear on far more ECW Battles than that. All the battles I mentioned have eye witness accounts mentioning them. Hedges are also mentioned at  Adwalton Moor,  Powick Bridge, Babylon Hill, Launceston, Stratton, Nantwich, Braddock Down, and Langport. Many of these have nothing to do with the enclosure of common land, but line roads, lanes and fords.  Obviously, armies with a preponderance of horse did not like fighting in such terrain, but those with more infantry did. Remember Mercurius Aulicus mockery of Sir William Waller’s position on Bourton Hill at Cropredy Bridge: “You know his condition of old, hills, bogs, HEDGES, these you must grant him, he’ll not fight else.”   

[sunjester]

Also at the Battle of Charlgrove the Royalists used "an impenetrable great hedge" to protect their flank in the maneuvering  before the battle and later the Parliament dragoons sheltered behind a hedge that Prince Rupert and his cavalry had to jump in order to get to grips with them.