Horse and musket infantry in six ranks?

[mmcv]

Hey,

I've been toying with samples in the smaller scales to get into some horse and musket big battles. One of the 2mm samples I picked at random was a six rank block of 48 infantry.

Out of curiosity, did anyone in the horse and musket period fight with units that deep?

The samples may end up in a 2mm pike and shot army where that depth was common, but wondered if any of the fine forum folk would know of any armies in the period with infantry that depth? Possibly right at the start of the period?

Cheers,

Matthew

[Leman]

I think in the very early period up to the start of the WSS.

[mmcv]

Yeah, Great Northern War perhaps, right at the transition period away from pike and shot and into eighteenth century warfare.

[Chris Pringle]

I may be wrong (in which case no doubt Mollinary will correct me), but I believe the Austrian 'battalion mass' was formed of six companies each deployed in a 3-rank line, but closed up one behind the other to form an 18-deep mass. This formation certainly persisted in use until 1848; can't remember if it was in vogue for 1866 Stosstaktik as well.

Therefore stick three of your 6-rank blocks behind each other, eight abreast, and voila - a whole Austrian 1200-man battalion at 1:1.

Chris

Bloody Big BATTLES!
https://uk.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/BBB_wargames/info
http://bloodybigbattles.blogspot.com/

[mmcv]

Very interesting, thanks Chris. That would be quite a sight to see at 1:1! Haven't quite settled on what war I'll do, currently pondering Franco Prussian, but Austria might be an option too.

[Westmarcher]

According to Chandler's Marlborough As Military Commander, the French are said to have used 4 to 5 rank deep lines up to as late as 1705 and the Russians, in the Great Northern War (1700-21), used 4 rank deep lines (some contemporary prints even indicating 5). So, I'm guessing the block(s) you chose at random are designed (as Chris alluded to) to represent deeper formations like field or attack columns. (

p.s. if the provider is Irregular Miniatures, I know that they also sell 2 and 3 rank blocks for this period.

[Chris Pringle]

Very interesting, thanks Chris. That would be quite a sight to see at 1:1! Haven't quite settled on what war I'll do, currently pondering Franco Prussian, but Austria might be an option too.

I am a big fan of FPW, but both sides are in blue - if you're going for 2mm, an Austrian army in white could be advantageous.

Best of luck with your project!

Chris

[mmcv]

That would make sense Westmarcher, six ranks and eight files could well be for combined attack formations.

It was indeed irregular, I got a mix of 2mm to see how I liked painting at that scale, so got a dense block, some skirmishers, cavalry, etc. Just a couple of each. Along with a couple or 6mm Franco Prussians to see how I liked that scale. And of course some 10mm to round out the order and to avoid the extra £2 under £20 fee!

[mmcv]

I am a big fan of FPW, but both sides are in blue - if you're going for 2mm, an Austrian army in white could be advantageous.

Best of luck with your project!

Chris

Yeah that's what I was thinking so was exploring 6mm as well as you'll get a bit more distinction there even with similar colours. My knowledge on the period is relatively limited at this point (I tend to pick a period to learn more about it as I go) so the field of choice is wide open!

And of course picking a rule set....I wonder what rule set would be good for playing big battles... 

[Chris Pringle]

And of course picking a rule set....I wonder what rule set would be good for playing big battles... 

[Hwiccee]

There are no earlier formations in 6 ranks as such, they disappeared in the late 1670's/early 1680's. Some armies used 4 or 5 ranks in theory from 1680 but often less in practice. There are no field or attack columns at this time. Just line and march column but there is a 'doubled line'.

It was common to 'double' when manoeuvring at this time. This was to change to double the number of ranks you fought in to make it easier to move when out of danger. So a 3 rank 'doubled' for movement would be in 6 ranks, a 4 rank unit would be in 8 ranks, etc. Unfortunately the blocks you have, I also have some as well for earlier armies, are still not that useful because they also maintained the same frontage and doubled both the number of ranks and the gap between the files. So in short it should be twice as wide with gaps between the files.

[mmcv]

I did find one reference to the Swedish occasionally using six ranks in the Great Northern, though as you say, generally on a wider frontage.

I only got a few of them so they will see use for an earlier period no doubt. If I enjoy 2mm for horse and musket I'm sure I'll do 30YW or the like in the future. In some ways the scale well suited to pike and shot given the distinctive shapes for the formations. I recall someone else on the forum doing that and it looking well.

[Hwiccee]

Yes sometimes units would use a different number of ranks but not generally. On the Swedes in the GNW, and at Fraustadt which is probably your reference, remember they have pikes.

On 2mm for earlier or indeed generally. I have 2mm ECW and TYW which as you say let you model the formations, but be warned the formations might not be as you think.

I have also started a project to do early 18th century at 1 to 1 in 2mm, not the 1 to 10 or so scale suggested earlier. So a 1200 man unit will have 1200 figures and not the 150 or so suggested. These are with 3D printed figures. In this case with 400 to 600 man battalions with 400 to 600 figures on a 18cm base.

[mmcv]

Yeah GNW seems a bit fuzzy between P&S and H&M, right at the changeover period. Not a conflict I know much about beyond a little googling and wiki crawling.

On 2mm for earlier or indeed generally. I have 2mm ECW and TYW which as you say let you model the formations, but be warned the formations might not be as you think.

What do you mean by not as I think? As in the models don't match the historical formations?

I have also started a project to do early 18th century at 1 to 1 in 2mm, not the 1 to 10 or so scale suggested earlier. So a 1200 man unit will have 1200 figures and not the 150 or so suggested.

Will be interested to see how this turns out. 1:1 is certainly doable at 2mm but that's going to be an epic project. Will be good to see how they turn out on a 3d printer. Presumably you've done some test prints?

[Leman]

Bit of FPW:

2mm Prussians


10mm Prussians


Couldn't find any 6mm photos.