Charioteer FV4101

[Sunray]

A relatively simple request for early Cold War vehicle extensively used by British TAVR in reinforcing BAOR.

It is basically the standard Cromwell hull with a new turret to accommodate the 20lb gun.  The pedantic amongst us will want Comet style exhausts.

Sales were made to Jordan, so in addition to early Arab Israeli battles, this AFV was still turning up under PLO management as late as 1978.

It also as potential in fictional 1946 WW2 as a Cromwell variant  that can kill a Tiger!   

Votes ?

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Not til 47/8 for post war. They were also used by Finland in some numbers, and I have seen notes that there were 1 or 2 converted to carry a 105 L7, firing might have been interesting. Those were reputed to be converted by Lebanese militia.

Add my vote.

IanS

[Sunray]

Not til 47/8 for post war. They were also used by Finland in some numbers, and I have seen notes that there were 1 or 2 converted to carry a 105 L7, firing might have been interesting. Those were reputed to be converted by Lebanese militia.

Add my vote.

IanS

Thanks Ian. 1946 WW2 is fictional fun and I believe open to a fair bit of licence. 

Not issued to TA units until 1952, so missed Korea.  The Irish Hussars had to make do with the Cromwell.  It would have been interesting to see the 20pdr Charioteer versus T-34/85.      

[fsn]

See what David Fletcher has to say about the Charioteer

[pierre the shy]

The Austrian Army also used 56 Charioteers from 1956 to 1965 (thanks Wikipedia for the dates). The turrets were then taken out and used in the extensive fixed defences that the Austrians built in the 1970's and 1980's. Some of the turrets were up armoured and rearmed with 105mm L7 guns....last of the fixed defences (which also included T34-85, M47 and 360+ Centurion turrets) were decommissioned in 2007.

[Sunray]

The Austrian Army also used 56 Charioteers from 1956 to 1965 (thanks Wikipedia for the dates). The turrets were then taken out and used in the extensive fixed defences that the Austrians built in the 1970's and 1980's. Some of the turrets were up armoured and rearmed with 105mm L7 guns....last of the fixed defences (which also included T34-85, M47 and 360+ Centurion turrets) were decommissioned in 2007.

#

wwiiafterwwiiwordpress.com  has a very interesting article "Rearming Austria"  .  The Korean range would allow a stimulating Cold War game. I love the eclectic mix of kit.

[Steeleye]

It's not a '20lb' gun its a '20pdr' gun, pdr being short for 'pounder' which has nothing to do with 'pounding' but refers (if memory serves) to the weight of shot being 20 pounds.

As you might have guessed this sort of thing really annoys me.

[fsn]

Careful. Your in danger of stepping on fierce Kittys' toes!

[kabrank]

A Charioteer would be a very nice addition for the range.

My group also play 1947 for some light fun and having completed a set of T44 [T54 hull, loads of filing and a T34/85 turret] for the Russians now moving onto a UK force with Centurion 1, 2, 3, Conway and a couple of Caernarvon's.

Essentially assuming the pace of development keeps up as the German super kit rolls out.

All nice and useful for early cold war as well [+ UK Korea figs]

For early Cold war waiting for Saracen and Saladin

Kelvin

[Sunray]

A Charioteer would be a very nice addition for the range.


For early Cold war waiting for Saracen and Saladin

Kelvin

Votes counted.  And yes.....counting the days until Sarrie and Sal are released.  We have waited 12 months.....    patiently despite releases from other sources.....

[Wulf]

It's not a '20lb' gun its a '20pdr' gun, pdr being short for 'pounder' which has nothing to do with 'pounding' but refers (if memory serves) to the weight of shot being 20 pounds.

technically...  ...it's an archaic way of recording the calibre of the shell, 84mm. It's derived from the diameter of a sphere of iron 20 pounds in weight. Way back, at the start of gunpowder warfare, cannon were all created individually and each needed it's own ammo made for it. To ease logistics, cannon would be manufactured to fit a ball of the precise weight required, and anyone could make them.

The British Army, for whatever reason, decided to stick with this for direct fire weapons, but went with bore size for howitzers (3", 5.5", etc), as did the Navy (6" Cruisers, etc). The actual weight of the shell almost certainly would be different to the 'pdr' weight (and would differ between AP, APCR, HE, etc).

...I think... I await the stream of corrections... 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Well sort of Wulf, the shells for British WWI and WWII guns did nominally weigh the same as their designations, although both 6pdr and 17 pdr sabot are rather lighter.

[Wulf]

Well sort of Wulf, the shells for British WWI and WWII guns did nominally weigh the same as their designations, although both 6pdr and 17 pdr sabot are rather lighter.

I'm surprised if the weight of the HE shell for a 17 pdr (etc.) weighs the same as the AP shell, but I've never seen the weights.

[Ithoriel]

I think, Wulf, the important word here is "nominally."

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

My understanding is that the  designation of the weapon is based on it's primary round, so 25 pdr is based on the HE shell, 17 pdr APCBC shot. I do know that the abortion of a gun the 32 pdr was re-designated from 30 pdr when they weighted the first shot manufactured.

IanS