Turret issues...

[Wulf]

I hate to be negative, but...

GRV29 Panther D camouflaged. The turret won't turn. At all. The camo net on the hull blocks it. In reality that would get jammed in the turret ring.
GRV14 Panzer IV F1. The frontmost corners of the turret hit against the turret ring guard on the hull. The turret will turn, but not smoothly unless you file the turret down a bit.
GRV111 Tiger 1 with zimmerit. The tow cables on top of the hull rub against the turret whenever it turns. Not stopping it turning, but it'll take any paint job off in a very short time.
SVV3 T-34/76. The turret won't turn fully because the little 'boxes' on the base of the turret at both sides hit against the engine deck detail.
MDV56 Centurion Mk.1. The turret, having a sort of squarish base, won't turn smoothly because it hits against the engine deck details.
MDV21 Chaffee. Worst of all, the turret on this one just doesn't fit. At all. It doesn't even sit on the hull deck, being raised off it by the hull crew hatches. Either the turret should be moved back about 2mm, or, more likely from the squashed look of the turret, the curve of the underside of the turret is too shallow and doesn't clear the hatches.

Turrets seem to be an issue with many newer releases. I know these are game pieces and not perfect miniature replicas, but why have separate turrets if they just don't turn? I wanted all of these to play the new game What a Tanker! - a game which requires turning turrets as written.

It's not all bad - the Tiger with zimmerit has much, much better tracks than the first 'new' Tiger, in fact all the new tanks have good, simplified, tracks & suspension. Detail is crisp and sharp. The zimmerit looks great. But the turrets don't fit.

Oh, and the driver of BRV21, Sherman V with camouflage, has no vision whatsoever. It's completely blocked by sandbags. Doesn't seem realistic...

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Could you raise the turret slightly with a spacer ring?

[Techno]

Separate turrets ?

My complete guess would be that they're done like that for casting purposes. (The barrel would get buried in the mould. ....I think)

Cheers - Phil

[Wulf]

Could you raise the turret slightly with a spacer ring?

I 'fixed' the Chaffee by drilling a new hole about 2mm back. The turret fits now, but it does look squashed. A number of other turrets, especially Shermans, look like the roof of the turret has sunk a bit too.

One other really good thing about some, but not all, the new tanks is the big chunky turret pin. I like those.

[Wulf]

SVV3 T-34/76 is worse than I initially realized. The turret won't turn to the rear quarter at all. Either the turret is too low or the engine decking too high. The turret rides up partially out of it's socket anywhere from the 4 o'clock to 8 o'clock positions.

[Dave]

MDV21 Chaffee. Worst of all, the turret on this one just doesn't fit. At all. It doesn't even sit on the hull deck, being raised off it by the hull crew hatches. Either the turret should be moved back about 2mm, or, more likely from the squashed look of the turret, the curve of the underside of the turret is too shallow and doesn't clear the hatches.

I'll look at redoing the chaffee.

Dave

[Dave]

They are wargames models and the turrets have to be separate for the gun barrel to be in the centre of the mould so it will cast easily.  I have just moulded the sherman jumbo which was missing off your order?

Dave

[Wulf]

I have just moulded the sherman jumbo which was missing off your order?

Ah, thank you - I got the hulls & turrets mixed up and thought one of the 47 degree Sherman hulls was the Jumbo. Haven't got around to working on the M4s - all those turrets fit fine, there are no obstructions around the turret ring.

[Terry37]

Interesting, I never bothered ot look at that. I glue my turrets facing forward.  I'm happy with that because that usually means the barrel doesn't extend beyond the front edge of the base - a goal I try to achieve with all of my figures when I base them. Since I lay HOTT as my primary rule set that makes the game look better during play.

Terry

[Wulf]

I'll look at redoing the chaffee.

Thank you. I criticise because I do want to keep buying Pendraken. But I want rotating turrets...

[Wulf]

And by the way SVV40 T-34/76 D turret, like the Chaffee, doesn't sit on the hull at all. It's held up by the rear hull deck. It's not that it doesn't rotate, it doesn't even sit there at all. I'd guess the other 76mm gun T-34 will be the same. The T-34/85 is OK thanks to the higher turret bustle clearance.

So many of the new tanks looks like no-one actually tried fitting the turrets to the hulls. I won't be trying any more of the new Pendraken tanks. TDs and SPGs should be safe.

[Sunray]

I hate to be negative, but...

GRV29 Panther D camouflaged. The turret won't turn. At all. The camo net on the hull blocks it. In reality that would get jammed in the turret ring.
GRV14 Panzer IV F1. The frontmost corners of the turret hit against the turret ring guard on the hull. The turret will turn, but not smoothly unless you file the turret down a bit.
GRV111 Tiger 1 with zimmerit. The tow cables on top of the hull rub against the turret whenever it turns. Not stopping it turning, but it'll take any paint job off in a very short time.
SVV3 T-34/76. The turret won't turn fully because the little 'boxes' on the base of the turret at both sides hit against the engine deck detail.
MDV56 Centurion Mk.1. The turret, having a sort of squarish base, won't turn smoothly because it hits against the engine deck details.
MDV21 Chaffee. Worst of all, the turret on this one just doesn't fit. At all. It doesn't even sit on the hull deck, being raised off it by the hull crew hatches. Either the turret should be moved back about 2mm, or, more likely from the squashed look of the turret, the curve of the underside of the turret is too shallow and doesn't clear the hatches.

Point well made.  

However, Pendraken 1/150 models are what they are. A cottage industry designed to produce AFVs in a very small scale for a very low price. -around £2.50 plus VAT.   They are designed to an unwritten  wargamer's historic convention that such small scales as 1/300, 1/200, and 1/150  (10mm) turrets are recognised as fiddly and best super glued to the tank body.

The 15mm (1/100) by Peter Pig and QRF is the smallest scale where their is a customer expectation of smooth turret transverse on the model.

If you want the Rolls Royce of 10mm (1/144 if you please!) try Arrowhead Miniatures.  Their  Cromwell IV retails at £5.19 (Pendraken £2.95) and an Arrowhead Tiger 1 is £8.99 (Pendraken £3.75).   Now these Arrowhead AFVs are well sculpted and their turrets rotate smoothly - at that price I would expect smoke from the exhausts-  but if you can get a decent model on the table  for half the price,  to play BKC then Pendraken is the 'popular' choice and will remain so. Superglue rules.  

'What a Tanker' is by design a wargame of the skirmish genre.  Reviews I have read to date feature 15mm ' to make the most sense visually'  and hinted at 28mm would also work (Sigur, 22 April 2018).

You pick your game, pays your money and make your freedom of choice with regard to scale and manufacturer.   

[Techno]

Point well made.  
You pick your game, pays your money and make your freedom of choice with regard to scale and manufacturer.   

James is absolutely right.

'Cos I work in 'the industry'.....I know what different manufacturers will pay for 'things' like tanks.
You probably wouldn't believe the differences in price that they'll pay the designers of vehicles.
Personally...I can't stand doing 'straight line work'......I have to charge (what would appear to be) completely daft sums.....Because of the time it takes me to make the wee sods. (It's just not 'my thing'....and I truly hate doing it !)

There's a good friend of mine who probably charges a third to a quarter of the amount, that I'd find acceptable......And HIS stuff is oodles better than my efforts.

As James says.....'You pays' your money, and you take your choice.

Cheers - Phil

[Ithoriel]

In an ideal world I would want tanks produced as one piece castings. The fewer things I might accidentally superglue to my fingers the better!

[Orcs]

Having played "What a tanker" at 28mm and seen it played at 20mm I have to question why you would play a detailed skirmish set of rules in 10mm? We have played Chain of Command in 10mm and its doable but very fiddly, so much so we moved over to 20mm.

I think the issue you are having is you  are using the "wrong tool" for the job.

You only need a few tanks a side so look at PSC 15mm or Zvezda. Most of your 10mm terrain will suffice. Indeed some of our member prefer to use a smaller scale of terrain than the figures to give a more realistic footprint.

As Sunray says, Pendraken produce excellent models for playing BKC or larger scale wargames. They are very good value as he has pointed out and fit for purpose.

You copuld look to glue the turret I place and use a hexagon base underneath with a mark on it to indicate the position of the barrel

[Wulf]

While I can't disagree with any of the counterarguments raised, all I will say is: other manufacturers manage to have rotating turrets, of the same tank types, at closely comparable cost and detail.

While I will always support Pendraken for their excellent service & responsiveness, and this forum, the best I know of for the hobby, their most recent tanks have been very problematic for me. Ignoring the ones with turrets that don't rotate, or don't do so smoothly, if a tank turret just doesn't sit on the deck because of obstructions (like the Chaffee & T-34/76D), it's inaccurate.

Oh, and why play a skirmish game at 10mm? Because everything I have for gaming is scaled to 10mm, from dinosaurs to Star Wars, and I can quite happily play the game in that scale once I find the right minis to use. It's easy, even for tanks with tiny little turrets like the PzII or T-60 (and the PD minis are perfectly good for those).

[kabrank]

BTW found a wonderful replacement for Super glue that has revolutionised my Pendraken tank building.

This is Bostik all purpose tube glue:-

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bostik-All-Purpose-Adhesive-50ml/dp/B0001OZI4I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1542292296&sr=8-1&keywords=bostik+all+purpose+glue

Whilst one has to be a little careful with stringing it holds well when wet [better than my favorite superglue gel], allows adjustment and dries rapidly.

Makes assembling Pendraken tanks a breeze [and have not had to unglue anything from my fingers this year]

[Sunray]

And we on this forum all accept Wulf's right of choice to use 10mm throughout his entire wargame experience.  No "scale police" will hound him.  In preludes to our family wargames, I engineer a small skirmish game with single based 10mm personalities.  Col Rolf Steiner (KUS 27) makes his debut this next such game.   Now the rules are adapted from 28mm - but they work.

With regard to scale, all sculptors often exaggerate certain features to be more pleasing to the eye, or even to "look right" (Techno can explain). This all stems from our figures being bigger, with larger weapons than true 1/150.  This exaggeration can and does extend to vehicles.  This may inhibit aspects like turret rotation/fit.    It is custom practice because the customer expectation is that 10mm turrets are not expected to rotate.

With a glued turret and Matt J's magic, the Pendraken MDV 21 Chaffee looks swell to me.  I have three to build and paint next week.

Thank you Karbrank for the Bostik option. Does it secure figures to bases ?  Last time I used a Bostik glue was in the 1960s in a failed attempt to secure Airfix US cavalry horses to their bases.  Memories . 

[Norm]

I don't glue turrets as a rule,so that when I drop the tank, which I do from time to time, the turret has a chance to fall away undamaged.

I don't need a turret to rotate perfectly is situ, I am okay with lifting the turret slightly, turning and then dropping it back down, so the direction of fire and turret facing is indicated, but all turrets, regardless of pricing point etc, should sit in the correct position in relation to the body of the tank and generally be a good fit.

[Dave]

I'll look at redoing the chaffee.

Dave

I've reshaped the chaffee turret its now slightly smaller and rotates.

Dave