For King and Parliament publishing update

[d_Guy]

In the midst of travel but couldn't resist a comment.
Really glad you enjoyed the rules in play! In my mind the are "just right" rules, neither overly simple nor overly complex. More kudos to the "Two Thin Lads" (as I calls 'em  )

@Mollinary - on the "untried" - if an untried unit was the rear unit in a box with two units and the front unit broke, I tested with only one save for both the breakage of the front unit and the untried marker. Does this seem a reasonable interpretation? (In happened in my Barley Valley game).

Although Paul doesn't know it yet I think our next test game will be north of the border since D Guy has very thoughtfully provided his take on the forces the Battle of Tippermuir using FK&P on his blog.  As we seem to have mastered the main mechanics of the rules fairly easily using quite large forces on each side I think we can now handle the prospect of another quite large engagement without any qualms. I would also welcome the chance to try D Guys house rules on bows and highland charges for myself.

Cheers
Peter

Will be very interested to see how this turns out.

Two quick notes on Tippermuir since I won't get to it for a couple weeks.
1) Montrose extended the fronts of both flanks to keep the enemy horse from flanking them. By doubling his front he halved the depth.
FK&P has a "Staddle" optional rule which should simulate this pretty well. I liked it when I was testing but did not get to try it in a full game - Tippermuir is the perfect application.
2) The only actual terrain feature you really need is a hill less than half way in on Montrose's extreme right. Both he and James Scott tried to take that high ground (Montrose got there first). That house rule (Downhill bonus for Highlanders) might be useful (not against horse of course) 

Look forward to Paul finishing AWI and your group moving into W3K!

[mollinary]

Hi Bill,

Yes, that is a very reasonable interpretation. I think untried/disaffected troops faced with a unit disintegrating directly to their front would be most likely to fall apart.

Have a good breaka,

[paulr]

I have put responses to your questions in your text, next to the question. Really glad you enjoyed the game  , and thanks for such a comprehensive and positive review!

Thanks for the prompt response, you guys have earned good reviews

1. When an untried unit has to take a rout test, e.g. is charged, does it get one or two save attempts, we thought one Confused
A1. Good question. Sorry you didn't find it clear, when I checked I could see why! Actually the intent is for an 'untried' unit to have two attempts to save, not one.

We could read it both ways, it was the only ambiguity we came across

2. If you have three battalia lined up against one enemy, at their center, can the two side battalia fire at the central enemy if activated before the center one charges (and can the enemy battalia fire back against each) :-
A2. Yes they can. Think of this as preparatory fire to shoot the attack in, but remember diagonal fire can only use one to hit card!  It should never be fun having one unit against three, it is why keeping Brigades together is a good idea, if at all possible.

That was how we read it, my brigade wasn't quite that dispersed, but it was clearer to describe that way

I'm pretty certain we got this right, Swedish horse B counter charges another unit of Swedish horse A. Swedish horse A hits first as attacker and gets 2 hits, if Swedish horse B fails to save both it is lost and does not get to attempt to hit back.
A3. Spot on.

and the only good news for side B is that Swedish horse A gets a pursuit marker

In the midst of travel but couldn't resist a comment.
Really glad you enjoyed the rules in play! In my mind the are "just right" rules, neither overly simple nor overly complex. More kudos to the "Two Thin Lads" (as I calls 'em  )

Seconded

@Mollinary - on the "untried" - if an untried unit was the rear unit in a box with two units and the front unit broke, I tested with only one save for both the breakage of the front unit and the untried marker. Does this seem a reasonable interpretation? (In happened in my Barley Valley game).

Yes, that is a very reasonable interpretation. I think untried/disaffected troops faced with a unit disintegrating directly to their front would be most likely to fall apart.

That makes a lot of sense and fits with the wording, and was one of the options we discussed

Well that sums it up nicely - I'm completely sold on these rules.

Although Paul doesn't know it yet I think our next test game will be north of the border since D Guy has very thoughtfully provided his take on the forces the Battle of Tippermuir using FK&P on his blog.  As we seem to have mastered the main mechanics of the rules fairly easily using quite large forces on each side I think we can now handle the prospect of another quite large engagement without any qualms. I would also welcome the chance to try D Guys house rules on bows and highland charges for myself.

Seconded

I do now

[paulr]

It sounds as though sales of FK&P are going well. Apparently Simon ran out of stock of the associated Dash chits, they are now back in stock

A very well deserved success

I hope the preparations for the demo games at Salute are going well

[pierre the shy]

I completed all the units necessary to play Tippermuir last night (they're only printed card bases  ) using DGuys expanded OOB for FK&P so we will be playing that sometime soon.

Very much a case of quality vs quantity since the Covenant force is made up of almost entirely raw militia foot and horse against Montrose's veteran Irish and highlanders of various types. The Covenant have twice as many units as the Royalists all up but some of the militia is very dodgy and must pass two untried unit tests before they can act. Some of the Royalist highlanders still get limited ranged bow fire.

A must win battle for the Royalists else the campaign in Scotland will effectively be over from the get go. 

looking forward to this after the mainly cavalry based scrap we had in our first game.

[mollinary]

It sounds as though sales of FK&P are going well. Apparently Simon ran out of stock of the associated Dash chits, they are now back in stock

A very well deserved success

I hope the preparations for the demo games at Salute are going well

Thanks Paul.  I finished boxing everything this afternoon, so I am ready to go.  OOBs, labels, all the extra paraphernalia done. Simon, however is up to his eyeballs in grout, basing chickens, he assures me!  I thought that was a rather unkind way to describe the Parliamentarians, but there we go!

[paulr]

I completed all the units necessary to play Tippermuir last night (they're only printed card bases  ) using DGuys expanded OOB for FK&P so we will be playing that sometime soon.

Very much a case of quality vs quantity since the Covenant force is made up of almost entirely raw militia foot and horse against Montrose's veteran Irish and highlanders of various types. The Covenant have twice as many units as the Royalists all up but some of the militia is very dodgy and must pass two untried unit tests before they can act. Some of the Royalist highlanders still get limited ranged bow fire.

A must win battle for the Royalists else the campaign in Scotland will effectively be over from the get go. 

looking forward to this after the mainly cavalry based scrap we had in our first game.

Sounds a very interesting game coming up

You had plenty of infantry in our last game, for some reason you chose not to do much with it
It made no sense for mine to come off their nice hill

[Bunny]

Will be ordering my copy today and looking forward to reading it and painting and  arranging my 10mm figures!!

This is a very useful thread by the way!

[paulr]

Pierre the Shy will be playing our second game of FK&P this evening, Tippermuir 1644, thanks d_Guy for the scenario

I wish Mollinary and Simon the best of luck with their demo games at Salute

[d_Guy]

I wish Mollinary and Simon the best of luck with their demo games at Salute

Most sincerely seconded! 

I will be playing Tippermuir this weekend as well to add to the festivities in my small way.  I will be really interested to see what it looks like with humans on both sides!

Just posted more on the set up:
https://inredcoatragsattired.com/2018/04/13/he-saw-the-enemy-up-on-a-large-extended-plain-the-deployments-at-tippermuir-1644/

And here is one pic - a view of the Covenanter positions from the middle of the Irish Brigade:

[mollinary]

Thanks guys!  Now relaxing in a hotel bar with a large glass of chilled S-B after a busy afternoon setting up. We have a prime pitch, right in the centre of the hall, and all looks great  (apart from the fact I left Sir Arthur Heselrige at home!)

Busy day tomorrow.

Andrew

[Steve J]

Glad you're all set up and look forward to catching up with you and others tomorrow. I'm on GJ11 helping out Michael Leck and Co with their 'Battle of Stake game using 'The Pikemen's Lament' rules. Pop by and say hello if you have the chance.

[pierre the shy]

Welcome back D Guy - hope the vacation went well.

We played my interpretation of your original Tippermuir scenario last night in about 3 hours, ending up with pretty close to the historical result.

I based the game on the supposition that up to 6000 Covenant militia took to the field to oppose Montrose's 3000 strong army.

Montrose himself had to test for wounds after the Badenoch Levy he was leading on the right flank were destroyed while fighting against one of the Clackmannanshire levy units. He survived unharmed so the Royalist Captain-General's campaign in Scotland will continue.

I played the Covenanters and as in our first game my commanding general (Lord Elcho) had to make more than one emergency command moves when units he was with were defeated   For what its worth he also survived unscathed.

I will put up a separate battle report in due course.

The game only increased our belief that FK&P are a very good set of rules.

By using DGuy's house rules for bows and highlanders I'm convinced that FK&P cover the smaller 1644/45 battles in Scotland very well.

Now I just need to explain to Mrs Shy why I need yet more figures  
       

[paulr]

Frustrating to hear that Sir Arthur decided not to make the trip, hopefully everything else goes well

We played my interpretation of your original Tippermuir scenario last night in about 3 hours, ending up with pretty close to the historical result.
...
The game only increased our belief that FK&P are a very good set of rules.

It is a very good scenario with interesting challenges for both sides
While things turned out 'rather well' for the Royalists there were several moments where things could have gone decidedly wrong

FK&P gave a great game, even though it was only our second game we rattled through the turns
We only had to consult the quick reference sheet once or twice a turn and looked in the rule book once
There were several great narrative moments and it gave a wonderful period feel

[d_Guy]

Thanks guys!  Now relaxing in a hotel bar with a large glass of chilled S-B after a busy afternoon setting up. We have a prime pitch, right in the centre of the hall, and all looks great  (apart from the fact I left Sir Arthur Heselrige at home!)

Busy day tomorrow.

Andrew

No "Lobsters" for dinner then (or did they make it with out Sir Arthur)?
Have a great time!

[d_Guy]

Peter and Paul - obviously I love these rules and glad you are coming on board with them. To be honest, in the Tippermuir scenario with the "traditional" numbers my money would be on the Covenanter's (but only just). I'm anxious to see how things turn out with the randomized brigade activation attempts in my solo play version.

Look forward to seeing the full report.

Steve, thanks for your comments over at the blog. Have fun tomorrow as well.

[GrumpyOldMan]

Peter and Paul - obviously I love these rules and glad you are coming on board with them. To be honest, in the Tippermuir scenario with the "traditional" numbers my money would be on the Covenanter's (but only just). I'm anxious to see how things turn out with the randomized brigade activation attempts in my solo play version.

Look forward to seeing the full report.

Steve, thanks for your comments over at the blog. Have fun tomorrow as well.

Be interested to hear about your randomised ( ) brigade activation goes after you've played with it.

[d_Guy]

 
Yes I saw there was an entire thread devoted to British vs correct spelling while I was gone. 

[Womble67]

Looks good

Take care

Andy

[d_Guy]

I did my own Tippermuir replay yesterday and Montrose lost! My solo play mechanics seemed to be the root cause of the failure and I plan to do another replay WITHOUT my additional "friction" being added (which i'll put in their own Batrep thread).

The (brief) Batrep and pics are here:
https://inredcoatragsattired.com/2018/04/15/hotte-alarumes-and-continuall-fyre-the-battle-of-tippermuir-1644/

Here is a pic at the height of the action looking south toward Lamberkein Ridge:


And an overall view toward the end of the game where the Royalist still have a slight chance of winning:


In the mean time I'm sure many are now recovering from Salute and all went well.