possible ECW project using Baroque

[d_Guy]

I'll note d_Guy says I know more but I keep repeating ECW is not my thing, I'm no expert I have a wargamer's generalist knowledge, this is a peripheral period for me 

I was thinking more in terms of your knowledge and experience with the Impetus/Baroque rules systems. I think I have said before that for all intents and purpose you are one of the more lucid "help desks" for those rules (I think I even said somewhere that D&P should give you official recognition as such!)   

As to ECW, I hardly ever wander into England proper, so my knowledge is pretty meager.

[Zippee]

I was thinking more in terms of your knowledge and experience with the Impetus/Baroque rules systems. I think I have said before that for all intents and purpose you are one of the more lucid "help desks" for those rules (I think I even said somewhere that D&P should give you official recognition as such!)   

Aw shucks 

As to ECW, I hardly ever wander into England proper, so my knowledge is pretty meager.

That's a false statement I'm afraid

In context (and in period) "English" includes the entire British Isles and colonies like Virginia. Whatever fell under the Crown of the King of England - it is only in more recent times that the divisional nomenclature has become important, and only in ultra-modern times that such codification mixed with PC angst makes it inpolitic to refer to Ireland or Scotland as "England" - the rest of us don't make a big issue out of it, heck I come from a roman province, Northumbria, The Danelaw, Yorkshire or possibly England, Great Britain, the UK or Europe depending on how the crow farts - it's only a petty few that make it an issue. At the time (and for a long time after) "The English Civile War" meant a war between the King of England-and-whatever-else-he-ruled and his subjects.

[Leman]

Indeed, strange as it may seem the more fuss these little Scotlanders, Englanders, Northern Irelanders make the less united the UK seems to be. I don't include Wales because, as I was taught in Wales by a Welshman, Henry VIII, a Welsh king, united England and Wales in 1536, that's nearly 500 years ago. At that time Wales, like Italy before 1859 and Germany before 1871, was a geographical and cultural term. There never was a kingdom of Wales before that date. The first Welsh king to rule the whole of Wales was Henry VII, who had also become king of England. I was also born in Northumbria at the site of the battle of Brunanburgh. Maybe it's time for a Northumbrian Assembly to put the North on a par with the rest of this island and the chunk taken out of the other island.

[Ithoriel]

Aw shucks 

That's a false statement I'm afraid

the King of England

The King of England and of Scotland, the two being separate countries at the time.

Indeed the War might never have happened had we not had to send Jamie the Saxth South when the English so carelessly mislaid their own dynasty

[d_Guy]

The Balkanization argument aside and one with which I agree, I have the same sense as Ithoriel. Scotland and England were completely different countries at the time each with their own king, parliament and dominant religion. It was the Tudor's mismanagement of assuring an heir that gave the two countries the same king from which flowed a cascade of problems.

I meant I have not much studied the battles fought south of the border.   

Incidently I am from West (by G_d) Virginia and we still have an ongoing dispute about the exact location of the border with "East" Virginia (which is what they should be called since WE were the loyal government of Virginia!  )

[Zippee]

The King of England and of Scotland, the two being separate countries at the time.

Indeed the War might never have happened had we not had to send Jamie the Saxth South when the English so carelessly mislaid their own dynasty

Indeed he was King of both but the ECW was a civil war against the King of England* not the King of Scotland - they had their own trouble and strife  

*technically it was against the King of England's 'poor and ill advisors' aka Buckingham.

But linguistically England at the time (and until the 19th century when Britain or Great Britain began to be preferred - possibly because Victoria was quite sympathetic to the Scots and wanted to shy away from the smell of Cumberland) referred to all territory under the Crown. I see little in the documentation of the Stuart dynasty (apart from formal royal writs which tend to be repeated under both royal seals) that specifies the separate states, provinces and colonies of the state - it's all "England" in common parlance.

Oh and by the way it weren't no English dynasty (I think only Alfred can claim to have sired one of them) it was a an illegitimate usurpation of a half-breed dynasty, founded on treachery. It's sad that I was about to write that the last non-foreign king was Richard III - but of course he was basically French  But then every king we've ever had prior to George I has arrived through invasion, even the English are invaders - but ending up with a bastard welsh dynasty, that's like the nadir, Scots, Dutch and Germans can only be an improvement after that ignominy 

[mollinary]

ignominy 

Richard the Third the last true King of England?  There has to be a reason why he couldn't defend 'his' crown against the most laughably implausible pretender to the throne for a thousand years! Oh, yes, it was because he had no claim himself, and no-one, not even his oldest and best friends, were safe against his, entirely justified, paranoia! Anyone has to be better than that intelligent, ruthless, capable, but totally untrustworthy and, ultimately, undeserving, fraud.
Anyone plausibly descended from Boudicca? 

Mollinary

[FierceKitty]

Richard the Third the last true King of England?  There has to be a reason why he couldn't defend 'his' crown against the most laughably implausible pretender to the throne for a thousand years! Oh, yes, it was because he had no claim himself, and no-one, not even his oldest and best friends, were safe against his, entirely justified, paranoia! Anyone has to be better than that intelligent, ruthless, capable, but totally untrustworthy and, ultimately, undeserving, fraud.
Anyone plausibly descended from Boudicca?  

Mollinary

He was rather bad at picking men for key posts, no denying it.

[paulr]

Thanks all

I've finished my latest test game and very enjoyable it was A close win to the King's forces

I think I will go with defaulting the RE to massed as I'm already planning to base them in two ranks rather than one for the other mounted. I can use a marker if they are not massed.
How important in the rules is the extra base depth?

I'll note d_Guy says I know more but I keep repeating ECW is not my thing, I'm no expert I have a wargamer's generalist knowledge, this is a peripheral period for me 

So how many figures do you paint for a non-peripheral period

I was thinking more in terms of your knowledge and experience with the Impetus/Baroque rules systems. I think I have said before that for all intents and purpose you are one of the more lucid "help desks" for those rules (I think I even said somewhere that D&P should give you official recognition as such!)   

Seconded

[toxicpixie]

Richard the Third the last true King of England?  There has to be a reason why he couldn't defend 'his' crown against the most laughably implausible pretender to the throne for a thousand years! Oh, yes, it was because he had no claim himself, and no-one, not even his oldest and best friends, were safe against his, entirely justified, paranoia! Anyone has to be better than that intelligent, ruthless, capable, but totally untrustworthy and, ultimately, undeserving, fraud.
Anyone plausibly descended from Boudicca? 

Mollinary

No one had any valid claim left by then, so last man standing wins! If there ever even was such a thing that didn't rest on the same "I'll stab anyone who disagrees" basis, anyway.

[mollinary]

No one had any valid claim left by then, so last man standing wins!

Apart from Edward V of course.

[toxicpixie]

Still based on "I'm King because of relatives stabbing people", mind. And he was already dead to clear the way for the Franco-Welsh-ish so evidently not that strong a claim

[toxicpixie]

Ooo, however - all discussion of government and rights to the throne is now defunct.

Arthur's back, so she renders anything else moot due to a water sword!

http://www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/schoolgirl-finds-four-foot-sword-419611#ICID=sharebar_facebook

[Ithoriel]

"Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.

Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony. You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

I mean, if I went around saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!"

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

You been reading my Facebook threads again! Last thing I copied was:
Oh but if I went 'round sayin' I was Emperor, just because some moistened bint lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away.