The Somme revisited

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Watched it again last night.
I know, let's set off a huge explosion, just leave Jerry to work out we are coming!
And then have no communication with successful formations to send them reserves, while sending taw reserves into the open to form up in front of ranged in HMGs...
Only us British could be so overconfident to blow it like we did.

[Last Hussar]

50-90% of artillery were duds.  In a way we'll never know if the idea that the artillery was overwhelming, because only 1/£ of it went boom!

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

That too!
No wonder Krupp sued after the war!

[DanJ]

So far it's enjoyable if a rather predictable iteration of what went wrong on day 1, albeit with a couple of new twists, German intelligence and high percentage of artillery duds.  Although there was an anomaly in that both sides agreed the week long barrage was very impressive in terms of volume of fire over the German trenches but so 90% of shells couldn't have been duds, I'm surprised he didn't pick up on the fact the majority of shells were still shrapnel and the British artillery didn't have a working impact fuse. 

I'm more interested in how Peter Barton will develop the story from Day 2 onwards. 

[Last Hussar]

Episode 2

The German system of self examination (oo-eer) was impressive.

[SV52]

Episode 2

The German system of self examination (oo-eer) was impressive.

Compare that to the British High Command's belief in the effectiveness of cavalry, 'no country for old men'.

[Steve J]

Will catch up on these soon. Certainly not a period I know a lot about, but always good to learn.

[Leman]

Just watched episode 1 on the iplayer - better than most of the hoary old stuff that gets spouted.

[Steve J]

Caught up on both this evening and must say I enjoyed them.

[Glorfindel]

I've now watched both episodes and have been hugely impressed.   It
includes a lot of information that was new to me, particularly the forced
German movement out of obliterated trenches into shell holes to avoid
the allied air force and artillery.

Well worth watching.

[DanJ]

Watched the last of the series last night on iPlayer, very impressed, pity it wasn't made into a six part series, lets hope there's a follow up for the Messines and Pachendael battles next year..

What struck me most was the continued appalling British security, who ever took the 'Top Secret, not to be removed, destroy when read' document to the front line and let it be captured should have been shot....

Actually, given the casualty figures he probably was.

[cameronian]

Slack security was/is the bane of all armies. It got so bad in WWII Hitler made carrying secret papers by air a capital offence; slack non reg signals procedure opened the crack in enigma. Christopher Duffy's 'Through German Eyes' is the Somme seen from the other side of the wire, they regarded it as a defeat. Must say I'm a bit sick of this Britain bashing, by 1918 our army was the best in europe, untainted by mutiny with an unsurpassed run of victories in the hundred days. Haig was a great general.

[Leman]

I always think that Haig was cursed with trying to do a certain job (i.e. attack the enemy) whilst the technology to do so was still developing around him. By the end of the war the technology and the tactics were in place to achieve what he needed to do. Another of Haig's problems was that he was conducting the first mass war in British history at a time when most of the population could now read and write and there were at least two forms of mass media, giving rise to outpourings of sorrow and grief which had not been experienced on such a huge scale before. This appears to have had a massive influence on the view of WWI in popular culture, coupled with the late C20th/C21st western cultural development of outward shows of grief. Just one example being that as a youngster in the 50s, 60s and 70s I never once saw a lamp post bedecked with flowers.

[DanJ]

As with all things as big as WW1 it is a very complex subject with errors made all over the place.

Haig was probably the only person capable of running the British on the Western Front, if there had been an alternative Lloyd George would have got rid of Haig.

Haig was certainly cursed on several accounts, technology, size of army, security, training, tactics and politics to name just a few. 

The idea of bashing WW1 seems to have been a product of the 1960s and 70s, the product of revisionist historians and men like Alan Clarke.  I can certainly remember men who fought in the war and while they said it was terrible there was huge pride in what they'd achieved.

For anyone interested in the what the British army could achieve by 1918 I'd recommend '1918 A Very British Victory' by Peter Hart.

[mollinary]

As with all things as big as WW1 it is a very complex subject with errors made all over the place.


For anyone interested in the what the British army could achieve by 1918 I'd recommend '1918 A Very British Victory' by Peter Hart.

Or "Forgotten Victory: The First World War, Myths and Reality" by Gary Sheffield.