David Manley's "Greek Fire and Roman Fury"

[paulr]

Hi All,

I am trying to track down a copy of David Manley's "Greek Fire and Roman Fury" ancient naval rules that were published in the April 2003 issue of Wargames Illustrated.

Any assistance would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Paul

PS This may or may not be connected with me considering my next project

[Fenton]

Hi Paul

I have a copy of that issue

If you pm you email I will scan it later this week

[paulr]

PM sent, thanks Fenton

What do you think of the rules & do you need a copy of Fire & Fury to play them?

[paulr]

Pierre the Shy has sent me scans of the rules and will lend me his copy of the magazine at our game on Saturday

Thanks for your offer to scan Fenton.

I see you don't need a copy of F&F to play them which is a bonus to me

I would be interested in feedback from any who have played them. They look interesting and definitely place the player as an Admiral rather than a Captain
I might have to organise a test game using some card board cut outs

[Fenton]

I am presuming you don't need me to scan them now?

[paulr]

Correct Fenton, thanks again for the offer

I had asked on a couple of Yahoo groups as well and David Manley, the author, kindly sent me a pdf copy as well.

I really enjoy the help you get from fellow wargamers all over the world

[paulr]

With trenches drying and painting equipment packed away ready for the BBQ tomorrow I've been having a look at these rules
Just between BBQ preparations

They look very interesting, you command squadrons not ships and use Fire & Fury mechanisms 

There are a few differences between the PDF Dave sent me and the Wagames Illustrated article
I'm pulling together a list of questions for Dave if he has time

I'm thinking about using Navwar ships as they appear to be cheaper than Tumbling Dice whIle twice the size; 1/1,200 compared to 1/2,400

It might mean I need to make the bases a bit bigger but that should be manageable, 2 ships on a 40x40 base (maybe 40x50 deep)
The main hassle will be Navwar's old fashioned ordering system; fax or post

Any feedback on the rules and/or ship models appreciated

[Ithoriel]

I'm considering Outpost's tinies.

http://www.outpostwargameservices.co.uk/





25 ships for £4 means even with several ships per base it isn't break the bank stuff.

I'm interested in Rome v Carthage so basically need lots of quinquiremes, some hexeremes as flagships, maybe some triremes as scout types and a pack of merchantmen as troop transports/ supply ships. That there are none of the Hellenistic "dreadnaughts" isn't a problem for me.

Next up I need some decent rules for Medieval cogs, used to have some that came in one of the mags which included such delights as chucking firepots and quicklime at the enemy and hoping the wind didn't change

[paulr]

At that scale, 1/3,600 I think, you can claim they are what ever type you like

I had seen them and they are an option, I'm just not sure how good they will look at wargaming distances

My very rough calculation is they will be about 10mm long and 4-5mm wide including the oars (which should probably be invisible at that scale)

Navwar 1/1,200 will be around 30mm long, which fits with my 30-40mm square base thoughts

Although I have seen comments that Navwar and Tumbling dice are "similar" sizes despite one being half the scale of the other

[Ithoriel]

1st Punic War fleets would need between one and three dozen stands a side.

As a pensioner setting up a side project I need to keep cost under control, hence the thought of using Outpost ships, but if money and time were no object I'd go with Tumbling Dice stuff instead. I really like his Armada range, he's a nice guy and TD have been great to deal with by post.

I have some Navwar Armada stuff too and they're fine but not quite as detailed as their Tumbling Dice equivalents. The order system puts me off I have to admit but, that said, snail mail and cheques may be soooo 20th Century ... but it works!

Paypal is so much easier to use that I tend to go to EvilBay for Navwar stuff when I can.

[paulr]

If you do go the "Outpost's tinies" route I would be very interested to see some painted and based

As you say the costs quickly add up, it looks like you need at least a dozen stands a side for a decent game

I had a good experience when I ordered my 1/4,800 Age of Sail ships from Tumbling Dice and would like to support him
I also got reasonable service from Navwar once we got past the ordering process

This is still a later this year project

[paulr]

Thanks Ithoriel, thinking a bit more about this 10mm long is not that much smaller than a 6mm tank, which I happily use single based

So the options at the moment appear to be:

Tumbling Dice, two 1/2,400 galleys per stand, £1.60
Navwar, two 1/1,200 galleys per stand, £1.50
Outpost, four 1/3,600 galleys per stand, £0.64

I have emailed Outpost, and their Australian distributor, to ask for the dimensions of the ships

[Ithoriel]

My thought was 25mm square bases with 3 ships in line per base, except the squadron flagship which would have a 4th ship ahead of the others to mark it out.

The initial Roman fleet they built would be two 5-base squadrons of quinquiremes and a 2-base squadron of triremes.

Interested to hear what you get back from them.

[paulr]

Interesting thoughts on basing, will depend on the size of the ships. I'll let you know when I hear.

My thoughts were to maximise flexibility by having all ships based the same and using a temporary label to indicate the flagship.
The label can also have all the info about the squadron and ships on it to avoid separate paper work.

[paulr]

While recuperating from trenching I found a few blog posts that you might be interested

The useful thing with the pictures in this one is he says

The cutting mat grid is 10mm.

http://ramsravensandwrecks.blogspot.co.nz/2015/11/outpost-ship-models.html

Painted examples

http://ramsravensandwrecks.blogspot.co.nz/2015/11/outpost-ship-models.html

These are 3 other posts about 1/3,600 on his blog

Another couple from a different blog, a review including some dimensions as well as pictures on a 10mm cutting mat

http://steelonsand.blogspot.co.nz/2010/10/13600th-ancient-galleys-from-outpost.html

and some painted examples

http://steelonsand.blogspot.dk/2010/10/13600th-ancient-galleys-painted.html

MED5 Trireme w/sail 12mm stern to bow, integral base 14mm by 6mm wide, base bottom to the top of the mast is 5mm
MED7 Quniquireme w/sail  integral base 17mm by 8mm wide
MED11 Hexereme w/sail  integral base 20mm by 12mm

So 3 side by side on a 30x30 base might be the way to go
Only room for 2 Hexereme