What Ruleset Did You Use In Your Last Game 2016

[Zippee]

Hi D - yes, he was absolutely sold on reaction as opposed to ZOC & opportunity, liked the withdraw and exhaustion revamped Victory conditions, enjoyed the added character of unit special rules.

He just doesn't like ECW much but felt this was the best ever game of ECW he'd ever played. He'd be happier with more eastern games where there's a bit more unit variety but was impressed that the rules brought out the difference between GA. TR and RE quite so elegantly - he didn't need to know how to play them historically, you are obliged to use them historically.

All in all a big thumbs up.

I have 6 more cavalry units to paint and  the baggage camps to complete and I'm done - should just about complete by Christmas, hurrah! (bit fed up of painting ECW horse  )

[Nosher]

Now the Agitators are out my Parliamentarians are likely to be pushed up the painting queue for games of Baroque. I'm just not feeling the love for all that cavalry I have to paint.....

[Zippee]

I feel the pain - 24 units of horse done, just 6 more to go . . . (although as 2 or them are massed RE it's really 8 to go but I refuse to acknowledge that) 

[fred.]

Are there any videos or play throughs of Baroque? You guys all seem to get a great game out of it, but I am really struggling to get my head into how it works (and I'm normally pretty good at picking up rules).

[Steve J]

I haven't played Baroque yet, but it took me a good few read throughs of the rules to get a handle on the basic structure, so you are not alone Fred. I keep on planning a solo game or two with small forces to try and get the mechanics sorted, before moving onto bigger games. Lack of time has prevented me from doing this so far .

[Zippee]

Are there any videos or play throughs of Baroque? You guys all seem to get a great game out of it, but I am really struggling to get my head into how it works (and I'm normally pretty good at picking up rules).

Essentially,
1) each player picks a command (in secret or not) rolls 2d6 and adds the command rating of the general - the higher score has initiative and goes now
2) with that command, select a unit and perform all its actions - then the next unit and the next, etc
3) once you've done all units in that command return to 1) and each select a command (your opponent can pick the same or a different one) and roll 2d6 . . .
4) once all commands (and thus units) have been activated it's the end of a turn - check Victory Conditions (each unit has a number of victory points (unfortunately the Italian for this results in the abbreviation VD, stop sniggering in the back!)

When activating a unit, you can perform several 'actions' - essentially you can move, shoot, charge, withdraw, and/or rally. Whilst performing these actions your opponent has the ability to attempt to react to them. A unit can only react once in an entire turn and a given action can only provoke a single attempt (you can't reaction fire at the same charging unit with multiple units for instance)

The very first thing you can do is rally if disordered - this is free and does not provoke any reactions. Take a Disciple Test [DT]. Succeed and you remove the disorder, fail and you don't.

After that you can move, shoot, and/or charge. You can potentially move several times - you move once without issue, if you move again you must take a DT at the end of that movement. If that results in Disorder you can't move again this turn. If you start disordered and don't rally you can move once and once only or take a full move to rally using your general's command rating.

Before or after you move you may shoot (some units like light horse and reiiters can move-shoot-move) each move deducts 1d6 from your shooting (so if you intend to move after shooting you need to take the deduction voluntarily). Any movement that intends to contact is termed a charge - once you charge you cannot move or shoot again. Assuming your charge got you to contact then you fight a melee - you might win and pursue, if you do you fight that now as well. You continue this units fighting until it either sticks in combat or wins/loses and fails further contact. Once you have charged and/or fought a melee your unit's activation is over for this turn.

Shooting and combat work essentially the same way. Each unit has a combat value called VBU (again it's an Italian abbreviation thing). This is the number of dice you roll - usually between 2 and 7. There will be some additions/deductions to that number - disorder for instance is -1d6 (there are only about 4-6 modifiers). The shooter or both melee units roll these dice - a 6 or a double 5 scores one "hit". These are not casualties, the number of "hits" is really just a measure of how well the combat went - you can set it up so the odds are in your favour but you can't control the outcome.

Having determined the number of "hits" (which may be zero) you calculate the result using a Cohesion Test [CT]. If a unit avoided taking a hit, it is disordered and does not take a CT. Ether unit in melee, or a target of shooting that took a hit must roll a CT. This is 1d6 and low is good - the concept is that you must roll equal or below your current VBU, again there are a handful of modifiers, including the number of "hits" taken.

Failing this test reduces your current VBU by the amount it is below the modified target number (this sounds more complex than it is in practice) - the unit that took the greater loss is the loser of the combat and must retreat. So a tough infantry unit with a VBU of 6, that fought and took 2 "hits" would need to roll 4 or less on a D6 (a 1 is always a success, a 6 a fail) - other modifiers may apply - to avoid taking a loss to its VBU. If it rolled 5 its VBU would be reduced by 1, if it rolled a 3 it would shrug the combat off and carry on undiminished, in either case it would become disordered.

Generating disorder is key as any disordered unit that receives a "hit" also loses -1 VBU when it passes its CT - a unit's cohesion gets eroded to the point they cannot function. It's not about causing mega casualties.

Victory is checked at the end of each turn - each command has a value of the total of it's units VDs, the army the total of all commands. A unit that has been 'exhausted' (it's current VBU is now less than half its original) deducts it's VD from this total, if it is eliminated (you have the option of withdrawing units to avoid this) it deducts twice its VD. Once the total of a command reaches 0, it is broken. Once the army reaches 0 it's is done for.

There are many wrinkles and extras but that's the core structure. The thing that seems to throw people is that their is no "move phase" or "shoot phase" or "melee phase" instead each unit performs it's entre "go" from beginning to end before another unit does. The other thing is that your opponent can interrupt with reactions at almost any time. There is a list of which action can trigger which reaction (opportunity fire, defensive fire, opportunity charge, counter-charge) plus he can often attempt to evade  away (depending on unit type) from a charge or shooting. To react or evade he must pass a DT for the unit, it's far from guaranteed but some units are much better at some reactions than others.

Alternatively if you're in reach of London drop me a PM and I'll be more than happy to walk you (anyone) through a game.

[d_Guy]

Fred, I wish I could find a video on how to play Baroque to refer you to but I have as yet to find one. I pretty much had to stumble through a few games - reading and rereading - until it all seemed to snap in place.   It was very much worth the effort (and it didn't take as long to become comfortable as I thought that it was going to)

The Baroque section of the Impetus forum - http://impetus.ativiforum.com - was (and is ) extremely helpful and the designer often answers questions there. Reading through the several threads on specific rules gives you a crash course in the major areas where people have had problems. Doing this helped me enormously. Several Baroque players from here comment  over there, Zippee being among one of the most knowledgeable IMHO.

As Zippee said above, getting used to each of your units taking (and resolving) all of their actions before shifting to the next sees to be the central feature of the game. It is also, I think, its most powerful feature for solo play (of necessity, my usual approach). There are so many ways to make disasterous decisions that playing by tried and true formulas often doesn't work. Simply picking the wrong Command to activate, the wrong unit to move first, or even indecision about chancing a second move, can cost you the game. I quite like it!

At first one might think that watching your opponent operating one unit at a time would be - well- boring - but you are constantly making reaction decisions so no time to be bored. BTW if a unit chooses to react - and fails its test - it counts as reacted anyway. There are very few risk-free choices in Baroque.

At any rate I hope that you'll stay with it.

And Steve, I hope you'll get more time to get stuck in 

[fred.]

Thanks chaps.

Zippee a very useful write-up. The unit doing its own thing entirely, isn't too diffrent fron our home brew fantasty rules.

I think it's the cohesion test that is really throwing me. Again I don't really know why. Might just have to try some examples till it becomes natural.

Reactions - I am kind of ignoring to start with.

I'm keen to understand the rules, they seem to be very popular with those who play them. I've sent my PDF copy off to be printed, which might make comprehension a bit easier.

[Westmarcher]

[Baroque]

The very first thing you can do is rally if disordered - this is free and does not provoke any reactions. Take a Disciple Test [DT].

Aw, cripes! Will we have to swot up on the whole of the New Testament for this?    


[sorry, Zippee - couldn't resist!]

[Steve J]

 

[toxicpixie]

1) What ruleset do you use in your last game? - DBA v1.something circa 1995
2) What armies were confronted? - 15mm, several - Early Carthaginians and Pyrhhic versus Gallic, Ancient British and Galatian, then Late Ottomans versus Galatians (went a bit out of period for the last game!)
3) Did you feel comfortable with the ruleset? - Yes
4) and... was the first time do you use the ruleset? - No, not by a long shot. First time in over decade though, most likely!
5) How many players were in the game? - 2

One of my club mates has been desperate to get her warbands for DBA out so we had an evening of me overruning them with Elephants, Companions, cavalry, pike and then screwing up eight elements with two light horse whilst the Ottoman sipahi's and Serbian knights ate chariots that were already being shot up by bombards and Janisseries

She wants to play again next week, despite a seven-nil drubbing. To be fair, at least two games were won by me six-one'ing a surprising outcome and eating a huge chunk of her army (either a general or double ranked warbands) then rolling up the line, but without numbers Warband are just not punchy enough or sturdy enough even against in period opponents!

Oddly my speelchucker wants me to change Janisseries to Patisseries. I wonder if it knows I just caved in and ordered some Viennese Imperialists...

Also, nice looking BAroque game, Zippeee, makes me want to get the 2mm's out again.

[Nosher]

1) What ruleset do you use in your last game? - Sword and Spear
2) What armies were confronted? - Anglo-Danes V Normans
3) Did you feel comfortable with the ruleset? - Yes
4) and... was the first time do you use the ruleset? - No, but first game in almost a year
5) How many players were in the game? - Solo

The Saxons got a proper drubbing losing 22-3 on points. Their flank was dangerously exposed due to poor terrain rolls initially and the Normans took full advantage pinning the secure Saxon wing whilst rolling up the other flank.

Not the most enjoyable game but I think that's more the forces involved rather than the game itself which is fluid and has some really simple principles which force you to make decisions about where to influence your battle plan.

[Norm]

I have recently got the Sword an Spear rules, so that interests me, especially as I want two 1066 armies.

If you were to re-run the same scenario, would you likely get a different game i.e. was your game a bit of a one off in terms of disappointment or are there some periods or battle situations in which the rules do not shine? 

[Zippee]

Thanks chaps.

Zippee a very useful write-up. The unit doing its own thing entirely, isn't too diffrent fron our home brew fantasty rules.

I think it's the cohesion test that is really throwing me. Again I don't really know why. Might just have to try some examples till it becomes natural.

Reactions - I am kind of ignoring to start with.

I'm keen to understand the rules, they seem to be very popular with those who play them. I've sent my PDF copy off to be printed, which might make comprehension a bit easier.

You're welcome

The CT usually is the marmite bit, some people just can't stand rolling a bunch of dice getting 5 or 6 hits  and then watching their opponent calmly roll a 1, smile and say no effect. Especially when they do 1 hit back and you roll a 6 and your unit disperses. Much wailing and gnashing of teeth ensue. That's why I "" the hits - they aren't hits they are modifiers to the CT roll.

You won't lose anything by ignoring reactions to learn the game.

At their heart they are fairly straight forward, my advice would be to put a pair of cavalry commands down - say 4-5 GA vs 4-5 TR with a general each and just run them at each other going through the resolutions.

And feel free to ask questions here or on the Impetus forum, always happy to answer and assist.

Apparently we need Disciples anyway 

[FierceKitty]

[Baroque]
Aw, cripes! Will we have to swot up on the whole of the New Testament for this?    


[sorry, Zippee - couldn't resist!]

Hey - stealing my lines!