Hates, loathes, detests, despises...(I'm not talking about anyone here)...

[cbr3d.com]

- Gamers who spend their time moaning about other gamers likes and dislikes, just enjoy the games and if you disagree with someones views then don't play at the same table as them.
- Gamers who moan about rule sets, if you don't like them then don't play them.
- Gamers who think that painters should be honoured to paint their figures and not pay for the level of skill and labour involved in painting (yet can charge hundreds of pounds  to their customers for half an hours work unblocking a drain or such like).
- Kickstarter projects where the company does not deliver or produces such shoddy products that they may as well not have delivered them to the backers.   
- But most of all - companies who think they have a right to control and dictate to customers.

Apart from that not much.   

[Leman]

My goodness; this is like something out of the Dark Ages!

[Westmarcher]

Why all the negative waves! It's a beautiful day!

Good for you, Lemmey (and Oddball).
(Lucky you - yesterday was a horrible day weather wise where I live! - fortunately it's now a beautiful day here too!) 

Nobby - you changed it! 

Luddite - wasn't moaning about your comment on unit size by the way - that was me just steering us off on one of our customary tangents - the 'spacing' comment was the moan. 

Dark Ages - should that be Early Medieval now?   

[cbr3d.com]

Just in case anyone didn't get it my 'moans' were said tongue in cheek, well apart from the last two.   

[DanJ]

Why all the negative waves! It's a beautiful day!

Because we all like to moan..... a lot

To add a couple of my own,

Big fat rule books full of pictures of 28mm figures on vast tables, the set up is beyong anything available to the average gamer on a club night.

Big fat rule books full of pictures of 28mm figures where the rules are totaly lost among the eye candy.

Big fat rule books full of pictures of 28mm figures which don't have a table of contents

Big fat rule books full of pictures of 28mm figures which don't have an index.

INCHES  ; they are an anacronism when we use mm for base and figure sizes.

[Matt J]

I must be in the minority, but I love seeing rule books packed with loads of nice pics (but then I'm not a gamer)

[Subedai]

I must be in the minority, but I love seeing rule books packed with loads of nice pics (but then I'm not a gamer)

I am a gamer (mostly solo) and I like looking at them, but I don't like the price tag or the inevitable add-ons or addenda. I would much rather research and write my own.

[Luddite]

Oooh...i've got another one...

Rules that are hidden away in reams of pointless text.  Just tell me the rule clearly and succinctly.   

[Womble67]

I must be in the minority, but I love seeing rule books packed with loads of nice pics (but then I'm not a gamer)

I also love the eye candy

Take care

Andy

[clibinarium]

I must be in the minority, but I love seeing rule books packed with loads of nice pics (but then I'm not a gamer)

Hmmm, same here on both counts.

[Sandinista]

Eye candy is good

Cheers
Ian

[Leman]

Ok, we're obviously talking about the Black Powder stable of rules, so here's my three 'appence. It does state very clearly at the beginning that it is NOT a set of hard and fast rules but should be approached as a toolbox. It will not suit DBX style players as it is not set in legalese or concrete (as I found to my ears' cost when my regular opponent saw me reading Pike and Shotte). The pictures are advertising a very attractive aspect of the hobby, and anything in there can be reproduced on a 6'x4' table using 10mm figures and cm instead of inches - we are lucky to be 10mm converts. The books have been written to give the feel of a friendly club evening rather than a competition, so I think they do what they have set out to do.

However (and there always is one) they are a high price and they have generated expensive follow on books. I was particularly disappointed with the C18th book as it was mostly scenarios outside the WAS and SYW. Yes, the chummy nature of the prose does mean you have to search out rules rather than seeing them in logical bullet point order, but at least BP has a decent contents page.

So how to enjoy the rules. The answer for me has been to treat them as that toolbox. I have produced a more detailed sequence of play with bullet points, army lists for SYW Austria and Prussia, which will need to change. On the reverse I have the specific rules for the SYW, such as unable to fire if more than one movement action taken. I have also put the blunder table and the list of special rules on a separate sheet. After a number of games I am now finding the rules flow very smoothly and I feel it is time to tinker with the Prussian army list - it just seems too much like a super army. Higher level officers and the reliable rule together means that the army runs like the Flying Scotsman, and I am seriously considering dropping reliable from all SYW units as it confers TOO great an advantage.

So to sum up - yes, the first few forays into Black Powder were somewhat confusing, but accepting it for what it is, coupled with a bit of legwork and playing a good few games, yields a fun and fast flowing game. Finally, the additional books are unnecessary. Any wargamer worth his/her salt can use personal research to customise the rules for a particular conflict or campaign.

Seven Years War Black Powder eye candy in 10mm:

[Subedai]

Ok, we're obviously talking about the Black Powder stable of rules, so here's my three 'appence. It does state very clearly at the beginning that it is NOT a set of hard and fast rules but should be approached as a toolbox. It will not suit DBX style players as it is not set in legalese or concrete (as I found to my ears' cost when my regular opponent saw me reading Pike and Shotte). The pictures are advertising a very attractive aspect of the hobby, and anything in there can be reproduced on a 6'x4' table using 10mm figures and cm instead of inches - we are lucky to be 10mm converts. The books have been written to give the feel of a friendly club evening rather than a competition, so I think they do what they have set out to do.

However (and there always is one) they are a high price and they have generated expensive follow on books. I was particularly disappointed with the C18th book as it was mostly scenarios outside the WAS and SYW. Yes, the chummy nature of the prose does mean you have to search out rules rather than seeing them in logical bullet point order, but at least BP has a decent contents page.

So how to enjoy the rules. The answer for me has been to treat them as that toolbox. I have produced a more detailed sequence of play with bullet points, army lists for SYW Austria and Prussia, which will need to change. On the reverse I have the specific rules for the SYW, such as unable to fire if more than one movement action taken. I have also put the blunder table and the list of special rules on a separate sheet. After a number of games I am now finding the rules flow very smoothly and I feel it is time to tinker with the Prussian army list - it just seems too much like a super army. Higher level officers and the reliable rule together means that the army runs like the Flying Scotsman, and I am seriously considering dropping reliable from all SYW units as it confers TOO great an advantage.

So to sum up - yes, the first few forays into Black Powder were somewhat confusing, but accepting it for what it is, coupled with a bit of legwork and playing a good few games, yields a fun and fast flowing game. Finally, the additional books are unnecessary. Any wargamer worth his/her salt can use personal research to customise the rules for a particular conflict or campaign.

Seven Years War Black Powder eye candy in 10mm:

I can't speak for anyone else but when I made my original comment I wasn't actually talking about any particular set of rules but the modern format in general, (I have only ever seen the cover of Black Powder).

Yes, the eye-candy is nice but nowadays it seems to be that some rules are just promoting a specific manufacturers figures so is nothing short of advertising.

Some magazines seem to be going down the same road. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to that kind of thing it's just that I prefer a range of topics to cater for a larger audience.

[cbr3d.com]

Leman - nice looking set up there, that is definitely 'eye candy' worth seeing.   

[toxicpixie]

Depends - I sometimes find the "fluff" annoying, but tbh if it's nice enough to read for its own value AND gets peoples attention, then I'm with it. Although if I could have a "rules only" copy and someone else buy the shiny one for me to borrow I wouldn't mind