Rules Q&A

[Roxxy]

One more question. Is the pursuing unit restricted by limiting terrain it passes through, or is in, as per normal moves? example a knight unit pushes back a bow unit on a hill. the bow moves 1BW the knight follows up 1BW. Is the follow up distance halved because of the hill effect? so no new contact is made.

[Chieftain]

Hi Roxxy,

Is the pursuing unit restricted by limiting terrain it passes through, or is in, as per normal moves?

Yes it is.

example a knight unit pushes back a bow unit on a hill. the bow moves 1BW the knight follows up 1BW. Is the follow up distance halved because of the hill effect? so no new contact is made.

There is no 'follow up distance', there is a pursuit move, which is basically a melee charge move.

In your example:

1.  The bow unit falls back - it moves 1BW directly backwards onto the hill.  It treats this hill as open terrain (not limited) due to the fall back move.

2.  The knights may now make a pursuit move.  This is a melee charge move, made as if it had succeeded with all of its Motivation dice.  All usual melee charge rules apply.  So in this case, the knights move 4BW (2 successes times 2 move), halved to 2BW due to the limiting terrain (hill).  This will be enough to contact the archers, even up the hill.

[JimLeCat]

Hi,

Still working on my first army, but I have a few questions/clarifications from reading the rules through a time or two.

First, I am correct in taking it that if a commander is reduced to 0 morale in the protection and morale phase, but has three CP left, then (assuming there are no enemy within 1BW at this point) he can still rally back 1 morale on himself before he routs?

Second, on group moves. It says that all units in the group move as if they succeeded in their motivation roll to the same degree as the commander does. Does this still apply if the commander achieves more successes than a unit's MV score?

Three, the samurai ape spell 'beneath the mountain's egg' stops enemy units from moving. The taurian spell 'walk the forever maze' allows friendly units to make unlimited moves. Which takes priority? I'm guessing the latter as the former specifies no motivated moves, among other things, whereas the latter allows the designated units to make their unlimited moves without any motivation roll, but is that correct?

Four, most of the spells specify an immediate effect or a duration, but the clause for the first option in the undead spell 'summon the fresh dead' simply says '...gain +1D6 Protection and the regenerate special ability;...' Should it add 'for the current turn' or is it really for the rest of the battle? 

Cheers,
Jim

[Chieftain]

Hi Jim,

Still working on my first army,

Can't wait to see it sir!

but I have a few questions/clarifications from reading the rules through a time or two.

First, I am correct in taking it that if a commander is reduced to 0 morale in the protection and morale phase, but has three CP left, then (assuming there are no enemy within 1BW at this point) he can still rally back 1 morale on himself before he routs?

Yes you are correct.

Second, on group moves. It says that all units in the group move as if they succeeded in their motivation roll to the same degree as the commander does. Does this still apply if the commander achieves more successes than a unit's MV score?

Do you mean motivation rather than move (MV)?

If so, yes. 
You make a group move, all units in the group multiply their movement by the commander units motivation successess.  This can mean that a unit can gain more successes from the commander than they otherwise would.  It also means that units with a motivation ability greater than the commander unit will lose out on the dice roll.

E.g. a hill dwarf commander (MT 2d6), unit of boulder elementals (MT 1d6), and gyrocopter unit (MT 3d6) move as a group and the commander rolls 2 successes.  the boulder elements will move further than they normally could, whereas the gyrocopter will move slower than it potentially could.

Three, the samurai ape spell 'beneath the mountain's egg' stops enemy units from moving. The taurian spell 'walk the forever maze' allows friendly units to make unlimited moves. Which takes priority? I'm guessing the latter as the former specifies no motivated moves, among other things, whereas the latter allows the designated units to make their unlimited moves without any motivation roll, but is that correct?

Beneath the Mountain's Egg prevents all motivated moves.  Walk the Forever Maze gives a free and unlimited motivated move.  In this case, Beneath the Mountain's Egg, would prevent the motivated move granted by Walk the Forever Maze (but not the other benefits of that spell).

Four, most of the spells specify an immediate effect or a duration, but the clause for the first option in the undead spell 'summon the fresh dead' simply says '...gain +1D6 Protection and the regenerate special ability;...' Should it add 'for the current turn' or is it really for the rest of the battle? 

Yes, it should be 'until the end of the turn', like all spell efects.  Its an error that slipped through the net.     Already spotted and in the errata.     http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11473.0.html

Cheers
Chieftain

[JimLeCat]

Hi Chieftain,

Doubtless you will, when it's ready!

Thanks for the answers, I did mean motivation not move, I misrembered the short name when typing... 

I did read the errata thread a little while ago, either it hadn't been added then or I just forgot - and either way it didn't occur to me to check it before posting! 

The rules read very well and seem very clear to me. I wouldn't worry about having a few minor errors like that - there is always something gets through and if the few bits and pieces in that thread are all that slipped through, then you did a very good job! 

Cheers,
Jim

[stenicplus]

Quick couple of questions from last night's game - Report and pictures due in a day or two. (I know, tease  )

Can Flying bases gain uphill? We assumed flying does not confer uphill, but it the enemy are below hill of the flying units...?

If you pursue, can you still claim Shieldwall? We assumed not since the rules clearly indicate a pursuit into contact is a charge move, the troops losing the benefit of massed shields as they chase off the enemy... Hastings anyone?

Thanks,

Steve

[Chieftain]

Hi Steve,

Can Flying bases gain uphill? We assumed flying does not confer uphill, but it the enemy are below hill of the flying units...?

Yes they can.  Flyers in melee are assumed to have descended to the ground to engage in the fight and therefore get the bonus.

If you pursue, can you still claim Shieldwall? We assumed not since the rules clearly indicate a pursuit into contact is a charge move, the troops losing the benefit of massed shields as they chase off the enemy... Hastings anyone?

This one suffers from perhaps a lack of clarity around the wording in the shieldwall special ability (i'll add it to the errata).  It should say:

'A shieldwall unit;
•   Gains +1d6 Protection if it did not make a motivated move: basic, restricted, or charge move this turn...'

A pursuit move is an outcome move, therefore although it is conducted as a melee charge move after the protection and morale phase it does not prevent the shieldwall special ability taking effect.

So to answer your question; a unit can claim its shieldwall protection (provided that it did not take a motivated move this turn) and then make a outcome move: pursuit.

Note: As a general point, there are some other references to 'basic, restricted, or charge moves' throughout the rules.  These apply to motivated moves also.

[Kiwidave]

That makes Dwarves even tougher to kill!   

[Luddite]

That makes Dwarves even tougher to kill!   

True but judging by the battle reports so far, the little chaps need all the help they can get!   

[JimLeCat]

Hi,

On the subject of flyers blocking fallbacks/routs, if they don't contact any ground units in their normal move, do they need to declare that they are landing behind the enemy battle line, or can you just take for granted that they will swoop down if an enemy falls back/routs toward them?

Also, why do samurai apes get resolute for free when every eligible unit from other army lists has to pay 5 points?

Cheers,
Jim

[Chieftain]

Hi JimLeCat,

On the subject of flyers blocking fallbacks/routs, if they don't contact any ground units in their normal move, do they need to declare that they are landing behind the enemy battle line, or can you just take for granted that they will swoop down if an enemy falls back/routs toward them?

Good question.  I'll try to be as clear as i can.

Flyers blocking fall back moves

'A fall back move is blocked if any of the following conditions apply.  The unit;
1. Is contacted on two different base edges,
2. Is contacted on both a front corner and a rear corner,
3. Cannot complete a full 1BW move (e.g. it is prevented by friends, enemies, a table edge or impassable terrain),  or
4. Cannot move far enough to end out of contact with all enemy units (including corner contact).' p23

So...if a flyer unit contributes to point 1. or point 2. it will block the fall back.

However, 'Flyers: Can interpenetrate and be interpenetrated by enemy non-flying units, as part of any move.' p10  
Note that to begin an interpenetration you must be able to pass completely through.

So for points 3. and 4., the unit falling back 1BW can interpenetrate a flyers unit (unless it is itself a flyer).  
Depending on the relative unit positions, its therefore possible (although unlikely) to be able to fall back through an enemy flyers unit.  
Since a fall back move is a fixed 1BW, it should be easy to position flyers to be able to prevent the full interpenetration (and therefore block the fall back).

Flyers blocking rout moves

For the rout move, a non-flying unit can interpenetrate a flying unit (running under it!) provided it is able to pass completely through.
Of course, flyers can still destroy routing units by moving into contact with it as part of any move.

Also, why do samurai apes get resolute for free when every eligible unit from other army lists has to pay 5 points?

They dont.  Resolute costs +5pts in each case.

I'll add it to the errata.

[JimLeCat]

OK, so in summary airborne flyers don't stop units passing wholly underneath them, but will block any unit which would otherwise stop underneath them?

[Chieftain]

For the movement conditions, yes.   

[JimLeCat]

Hi,

I have another couple of questions, this time on Shieldwall.

According to the rules Shieldwall gives a protection bonus to units that don't make a motivated move and which aren't in melee contact with enemy to their flank or rear.

First question, does that mean they still get the protection if shot at from the flank or rear?

Second question, if a Formed unit with Shieldwall turns to face an attacking enemy to its flank or rear, do they keep the Shieldwall bonus? After the answer above, I'm guessing yes, but I thought it best to check...

Cheers,
Jim

[Chieftain]

According to the rules Shieldwall gives a protection bonus to units that don't make a motivated move and which aren't in melee contact with enemy to their flank or rear.

First question, does that mean they still get the protection if shot at from the flank or rear?

Yes.

Shieldwall is a 'defensive position' or the unit taking measures to protect themselves.  It encompasses and actual shield wall defense, pavises, and other defensive measures (as detailed in the Shieldwall special ability description.

Second question, if a Formed unit with Shieldwall turns to face an attacking enemy to its flank or rear, do they keep the Shieldwall bonus? After the answer above, I'm guessing yes, but I thought it best to check...

Yes.

The unit is reacting in this case to an enemy attack, and is therefore maintaining its defensive posture.

[Chieftain]

Skirmish query from Madpax:

It seems theis topic didn't appear here, so I'm sorry if this had been discussed before, but how do you resolve the following problems:
A skirmish unit, which didn't moved this turn, is charged. It decides to evade and succeeds. I suppose it can evade away from the charging unit, but could it, instead, 'counter-charge', in essence cancelling the enemy charge?

Marc

Hi Marc,

An evade move is a basic or restricted move, not a melee charge move.  Therefore you cannot 'countercharge'.

[Chieftain]

Question on automatic hits from madpax here:  http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12217.msg167450.html#msg167450

[Chieftain]

Charge question from madpax here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12168.0.html

[Chieftain]

CP use question from madpax here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12176.0.html

[madpax]

Thanks for your patience on my stoopid questions. 

BTW, I know it could cost you some work time, but is it possible to regroup all Q&A on the first message to avoid us to look at all the pages here (I did it on another forum and it was handy for people)?

Marc