Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Pendraken Rules! => Warband => Topic started by: Chieftain on 01 February 2015, 10:13:01 PM

Title: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 01 February 2015, 10:13:01 PM
Ask your rules questions here!   :-B

If you're finding a rule or situation problematic, this is the thread for you!  Ask your rules questions, or pose any problems you've encountered through play here.

The Warband oracle will provide clarifications and explanations over rules that might be confusing you.

(http://www.kpelavrio.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/delphi_1812_jpg_600x.jpg)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 01 February 2015, 11:55:09 PM
Paige The Oracle!

Right, have to ask: Dragons - how good? Last time I tried WFB, back in the late 90s, no one used them as they were an artillery fire magnets rather than all powerful killing machines...

Also, is it possible to have an example of magic?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 02 February 2015, 12:00:59 AM
How good are dragons?

Potentially devastating.  However, they are indeed vulnerable to archery and artillery.  Using them well, and combating their dominance will be very interesting tactical challenges.

Example of magic?

Not sure what you mean Lemmey?  Generally magic enhances your army, and gives you a bit of an edge or perhaps a special (magical) effect or two.  That is, of course, if you include a magic user in your army. 
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Ken on 02 February 2015, 12:18:07 AM
Any chance of getting an combat example or sample game turn?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 11 February 2015, 02:23:46 PM
Quote from: Ken on 02 February 2015, 12:18:07 AM
Any chance of getting an combat example or sample game turn?

Hi Ken,

Actually, this isn't as easy to answer as it might seem.  I'll give it a go though.   :)

It's perhpas best thinking of a Warband game turn and a 'combat round' as the same thing.  
In Warband the various parts of combat are sequenced over the phases of a game turn.  
As the turn represents 'everything that happens in the battle over 30 minutes' a turn will play out generally as follows:

1. Initiative and command/magic potential is generated.
2. Everything moves (or not).
3. Everything shoots (or not), and 'hits' are marked.
4. Everything melee fights (or not), and 'hits' are marked.
5. Everything resolves the outcomes of accrued hits (including protection from the hits, morale loss, and outcomes.

Command and magic can interact to affect each phase.

It means that as a player you need to make careful decisions about where to spend your limited command influence (or magic spells).  Do you blow it all early to get your units moved into good positions, use it in the fighting to damage your opponent's units, or save it to help protect and rally your own units?

The turn structure means that there will be a lot of uncertainty; you'll have to constantly make challenging choices, and the wisdom of those choices won't become clear until the end of each turn!

Does that help?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Leman on 11 February 2015, 02:28:32 PM
I thought we'd had the discussion about dragoons.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: cmnash on 19 February 2015, 02:58:11 PM
I have 2 questions ...  so far!!  ;) 



Q1
In the turn sequence step 1.1, initiative is determined by rolling your commander's command die
In step 1.2, command points are determined by rolling the commander's command die

Should this be the same roll? i.e.  what is rolled in step 1.1 is used for step 1.2 ? how do you (the author I mean) play it?

Q2
Looking at the terrain choice list, I was surprised that there is not an 'open ground' choice available.  Was this a deliberate omission?



I've not played the game yet, just had a look through the rules and I like what I've seen!  :)

I am surprised that 100 x 50 was chosen as the standard base size though.  I would have thought that 80 x 40 would have roped in more Warmaster players as it's the size of a normal 4 base unit from that game

Cheers, Colin
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 19 February 2015, 03:07:27 PM
Quote from: cmnash on 19 February 2015, 02:58:11 PM
Q1
In the turn sequence step 1.1, initiative is determined by rolling your commander's command die
In step 1.2, command points are determined by rolling the commander's command die

Should this be the same roll? i.e.  what is rolled in step 1.1 is used for step 1.2 ? how do you (the author I mean) play it?

Q2
Looking at the terrain choice list, I was surprised that there is not an 'open ground' choice available.  Was this a deliberate omission?



Hi cmnash and welcome!

Q1 - They are spearate dice rolls.

Q2 - There is no 'open ground' choice.  Open ground is default.  Unlike other rules (DBx, FoG, etc.) you can't 'reserve' an area of open ground.  This was a deliberate choice, as many of the armies have specific terrain interactions that players can exploit.  You as an opponent will have to figure out how to deal with these!   ;)  It was felt that simply allowing you to deny areas for your opponent to place their terrain wasn't the right way to do it.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: cmnash on 19 February 2015, 03:17:42 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 19 February 2015, 03:07:27 PM
Hi cmnash and welcome!

Q1 - They are spearate dice rolls.

Q2 - There is no 'open ground' choice.  Open ground is default.  Unlike other rules (DBx, FoG, etc.) you can't 'reserve' an area of open ground.  This was a deliberate choice, as many of the armies have specific terrain interactions that players can exploit.  You as an opponent will have to figure out how to deal with these!   ;)  It was felt that simply allowing you to deny areas for your opponent to place their terrain wasn't the right way to do it.

Thanks for the rapid answers!  Thanks for expanding on the terrain choice - it makes perfect sense to me. It has just occurred to me, however, that you migh have covered that in the designer's notes, which I've not read yet! Sorry if you did ...

On Q1, though, is there a particular reason for them to be separate? not challenging, just asking ...

And on my point about base sizes, I've just seen the sabots in the warband bases range - great idea!

Cheers, Colin
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 19 February 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Quote from: cmnash on 19 February 2015, 03:17:42 PM
On Q1, though, is there a particular reason for them to be separate? not challenging, just asking ...

Yes.

Initiative determines if you go first or second during each phase.  There are specific advantages and disadvantages to both positions, which should become clear during play.

CPs determine your command capacity to influence the battle for the turn, including enhancing your initiative advantages and reducing your opponent's advantages.

Combining them into a single roll would magnify either of these advantages or disadvantages.  Splitting the roll potentially avoids that.

Quote
And on my point about base sizes, I've just seen the sabots in the warband bases range - great idea!
Cheers, Colin

They are.  Kudos to Leon!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: cmnash on 19 February 2015, 03:32:05 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 19 February 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Yes.

Initiative determines if you go first or second during each phase.  There are specific advantages and disadvantages to both positions, which should become clear during play.

CPs determine your command capacity to influence the battle for the turn, including enhancing your initiative advantages and reducing your opponent's advantages.

Combining them into a single roll would magnify either of these advantages or disadvantages.  Splitting the roll potentially avoids that.

Ah, now I understand!  If you had just the one roll, then whomever won initiative would also have more command points - magnifying the advantage as you said

Thanks for your patience, Colin
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 19 February 2015, 10:05:53 PM
Can I post an army list question here?

In the Goblin/Orc list wolf chariots are mentioned in the options but are they a unit available on the list? I can't see them.

Cheers, Andy
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 19 February 2015, 11:04:59 PM
Quote from: AndyT on 19 February 2015, 10:05:53 PM
Can I post an army list question here?

In the Goblin/Orc list wolf chariots are mentioned in the options but are they a unit available on the list? I can't see them.

Cheers, Andy


Of course you may ask!

One for the errata that.  Wolf chariots were removed. 
I'll start an errata thread.   X_X
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Upgraydd on 19 February 2015, 11:09:40 PM
It's not really an errata but more an omission, for the Hill Dwarves there is no unit description for Scouts;

On Page 9 Morale is abbreviated to MR but in the army lists it's MO.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 20 February 2015, 06:38:48 AM
OK thanks. So wolf chariots won't be added to the list then?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 February 2015, 07:47:49 AM
Quote from: AndyT on 20 February 2015, 06:38:48 AM
OK thanks. So wolf chariots won't be added to the list then?

No plans to reinsert them.  But you can still use the chariot models 'counting as' wolf riders.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Luddite on 20 February 2015, 10:26:53 PM
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-lxiCoOO54B0/UcC29Wpx3NI/AAAAAAAABVU/oidEwdKsGOY/s640/IMG_0203.JPG)

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 21 February 2015, 08:20:34 AM
Very nice!  Can't wait for mine to arrive.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 22 February 2015, 07:09:44 PM
Hi

The options list for the Goblin & Orc army includes giving any bolt shooter unit "defensive" for -5pts but they already have this according to the army list.

Cheers,
Andy
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 22 February 2015, 07:14:12 PM
Quote from: AndyT on 22 February 2015, 07:09:44 PM
Hi

The options list for the Goblin & Orc army includes giving any bolt shooter unit "defensive" for -5pts but they already have this according to the army list.

Cheers,
Andy


Yes.  That's a typo.

'Any bolt shooters unit may have defensive for -5pts.'

Should read:

'Any bolt shooters unit may have slow shot for -5pts.'

I'll pop it in the errata.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 02 March 2015, 11:39:39 PM
I have two questions so, in the best traditions of PM's question time, I'll ask the totally trivial one and unimportant one first:-

Prismatic dragons: is each dragon multicoloured, or are they a group of dragons of different colours? I know, it's fantasy, you can do what you want, I'm just curious as to what was the intended meaning...

Next, and more importantly:-

I'm reading the rules on allocation of CPS as meaning that you can allocate as many as you like to a single unit for the same boost, stacking them (i.e. my crappy archers are in range of your commander/magic user/uber troops, so I'm going to put all my CPs this turn on boosting their shooting to try and rout them). Is this correct, or can you only boost a single unit once each turn in each way?

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 03 March 2015, 12:07:13 AM
Quote from: JimLeCat on 02 March 2015, 11:39:39 PM
Prismatic dragons: is each dragon multicoloured, or are they a group of dragons of different colours? I know, it's fantasy, you can do what you want, I'm just curious as to what was the intended meaning...

Its 'do what you like', of course, but the intended reference is to dragons of different colours rather than multi-coloured dragons.

Quote
I'm reading the rules on allocation of CPS as meaning that you can allocate as many as you like to a single unit for the same boost, stacking them (i.e. my crappy archers are in range of your commander/magic user/uber troops, so I'm going to put all my CPs this turn on boosting their shooting to try and rout them). Is this correct, or can you only boost a single unit once each turn in each way?

You can put as many CPs as you like into boosting any single test.  So in your example, yes you could put all your CPs into an archery shot (to try to rout a vital enemy unit).  You can also do this before or after the dice roll.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 03 March 2015, 12:14:42 AM
Gotcha and gotcha!

Thanks for the quick answers, but you do you camp out here watching for questions?

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 03 March 2015, 12:24:14 AM
No.   ;)

On the tactical point about your 'CP overload' though, check out the implication of the Inspiration: rally rule and CP cost.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 03 March 2015, 12:37:53 AM
I believe you!  ;D

Yes, I noticed that. You can only rally at most 2 morale points, for which you must save 3 or 6 CP 'till almost the end of the turn. And you don't know the effect of any hits on your units until after all the shooting and fighting is done.

So, it's always a choice between gambling on the attack and, to quote a game I played a few years back, 'charging on the ragged edge of disaster', or playing a cautious long game.

Looks like fun!  :D

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Gunhit on 05 March 2015, 11:12:17 PM
Looking at the Marchers Cavalry options they can upgrade to powerful/slow shot to represent crossbows, handguns & longbows. I assume for this option their weapon range doesn't increase?

Adrian
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 05 March 2015, 11:52:01 PM
Quote from: Gunhit on 05 March 2015, 11:12:17 PM
Looking at the Marchers Cavalry options they can upgrade to powerful/slow shot to represent crossbows, handguns & longbows. I assume for this option their weapon range doesn't increase?

Adrian

That's correct.  The range remains unchanged.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 09 March 2015, 09:58:45 PM
In the Undead army list, are the Protection and Regeneration  boosts from the "Summon Fresh Dead" spell permanent or do they last for a fixed period?

Thanks, Andy
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 09 March 2015, 10:06:56 PM
Quote from: AndyT on 09 March 2015, 09:58:45 PM
In the Undead army list, are the Protection and Regeneration  boosts from the "Summon Fresh Dead" spell permanent or do they last for a fixed period?

Thanks, Andy


Hi Andy,

As with all ability boosts and special ability boosts from spell casting, the effect lasts until the end of the current phase or turn (as relevant).

The Summon fresh dead boost to Protection and the addition of Regenerate lasts for the current full Protection and Morale phase (phase 6).
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: AndyT on 09 March 2015, 10:25:05 PM
Thank you for the very speedy reply. I wasn't sure because the description for other spells say that the effects last just for the turn but I don't think this is mentioned for the Fresh Dead spell.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: cmnash on 10 March 2015, 03:04:48 PM

Hi Chieftain,  I've got a Pendraken Hussite ary, I want to use in Warband. 

Any pointers for how to use the War Wagons in Warband?  :-\

Thank in advance, Colin
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 10 March 2015, 04:53:10 PM
Hi Colin,

That's not been developed yet.

I'd say poor motivation/movement, poor shooting, average combat, high protection, average morale; and special abilities like defensive, formed, slow shot, and resolute.

If armed with crossbows or light artillery, maybe also powerful.

:-\

This sort of thing might be seen in future.

Of course you can always include them in a Dragon Men army as a variant Handgunners unit?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: cmnash on 11 March 2015, 08:45:37 AM

Thanks Chief;  I suspect that, given my current rate of painting, and that a Hiil Dwarf army has arrived, the future - and your take on war wagons - will have arrived before I need any details  :(

Thanks for replying though,

Colin
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 11 March 2015, 11:42:19 AM
Playing our game of Warband last night we found that most things we were not sure of were easily found in the rules. However a couple of things we couldn't find answers too were...

A red and blue unit are locked in melee frontally. A second blue unit charges the flank of the red unit, in the melee not enough casualties are caused to make any units fall back. In his next turn the Blue player wants his flanking unit to break off to turn to face approaching enemy units. Is he allowed to do so (with a Restricted Move) or is he locked in combat still?

A unit of trolls is rallied from routing, can they regenerate a point of Morale at the end of the same turn that they rallied.The fast play sheet with the sequence of game phases and the description of the regenerate rule seem to indicate that they can?

Otherwise the rest of the game ran smoothly.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 11 March 2015, 11:59:42 AM
Hi Bodvoc

Quote from: Bodvoc on 11 March 2015, 11:42:19 AM
A red and blue unit are locked in melee frontally. A second blue unit charges the flank of the red unit, in the melee not enough casualties are caused to make any units fall back. In his next turn the Blue player wants his flanking unit to break off to turn to face approaching enemy units. Is he allowed to do so (with a Restricted Move) or is he locked in combat still?

Melee charge move (end of second paragraph)
'All units contacted are immediately locked into melee and cannot voluntarily move until they disengage.  Units may only disengage from melee contact as a result of a combat outcome move (fall back or rout).'

So, no, the Blue player flanking unit cannot voluntarily break off.

QuoteA unit of trolls is rallied from routing, can they regenerate a point of Morale at the end of the same turn that they rallied.The fast play sheet with the sequence of game phases and the description of the regenerate rule seem to indicate that they can?

'Three command points can be spent to rally a unit, and these must be spent during the protection and morale phase at the rally routed units step.  Such command points cannot be spent on a unit that is within 1BW of any enemy units.'

'A unit with regenerate that is not currently routing and did not suffer any morale loss this turn, restores one Morale point at the end of its protection and morale: rally routed units phase (6.5.3. and 6.6.3. in the turn sequence).'

So, the trolls are rallied by 3CP (restores 1 Morale) during the phase, and then at the end of the phase, they regenerate an additional 1 Morale - provided that they did not lose any Morale this turn.

I'd suggest its always best to run down and destroy routed units with a pursuit move (or subsequent contact) if at all possible!   ;)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 11 March 2015, 12:34:20 PM
Brilliant, thanks for the quick reply. The flank situation was as we seemed to play right, we wouldn't let him break of. The troll regenerate, we just needed the clarification you just gave us.
Thanks again!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Dunnadd on 11 March 2015, 10:24:18 PM
Why do elf archers only have 2D6 shooting, the same as barbarian, dragon men, or orc and goblin, or dwarven archers?  EDIT - AndyT pointed out elves have different unit options and looking it up they can get Powerful for any archers unit

(also seems to be an error on elf guard archers who have shooting of only 1D6? Or is there some reason for that?)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 11 March 2015, 11:22:29 PM
Quote from: Dunnadd on 11 March 2015, 10:24:18 PM
(also seems to be an error on elf guard archers who have shooting of only 1D6? Or is there some reason for that?)

Hi Dunnadd,

Its not an error. 

In the High elf list, the guard archers unit are spearmen backed by ranks of archers.  Therefore they sacrifice some shooting ability (fewer archers) in favour of close combat ability (better melee and protection than normal archers.  They also have optional upgrades not available to archers.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Dunnadd on 11 March 2015, 11:23:55 PM
ah right i see - thanks for the explanation
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: ricardo440 on 16 March 2015, 07:17:05 PM
Hi,

We played our first 3 games this weekend. We certainly had fun.

I have a number of questions though that came up. wondering if I could get some clarifications.

1) When a unit falls back. Is it the intention that they are now WITHIN or WITHOUT one BW? i.e. would they need to make only restricted or charge moves?

2) Motivation stat seems more important than any other. your units are useless unless you can put them into a position where they get to do something.
Infact the motivation * the move is the important stat. Is that taken into account with the points? i.e. 2D6 2BW is at least TWICE as good as 2d6 1BW.

3) is there an ultimate restriction on movement? If I blow all my CPs on a unit is it OK I can charge it 10BW? THis may lead to your unit getting isolated, but with a fear causing unit they can hold their own quite nicely.

4) I understand that you can add in as many CPs after a roll is made. Can you add them one at a time? or must they be all at once.

5) We had an odd situation arising. When I used dragon men and cannon - at extreme range it was in my interest to blow all my CPs on a single cannon shot. I didn't have other stuff to spend them on. This made my cannon most effective at really long range. This seemed an odd quirk.
My opponent could save his command points for a protection roll, but he needed them for motivation to try to close the gap.

6) Having said that my opponent was able to avoid my cannon almost all the time by getting out of the firing lane. The Slow Shot I assume I am right in applying it even if the cannon only twists on the spot.

7) When are you allowed to charge a unit in the flank. From the example it seems that you can do it if you have enough movement, no matter your start position.

Cheers
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 16 March 2015, 08:18:07 PM
Hi Ricardo

Quote from: ricardo440 on 16 March 2015, 07:17:05 PM
Hi,

We played our first 3 games this weekend. We certainly had fun.

Glad you liked them!  Would you consider putting up a batrep thread, or perhaps a 'review of your thoughts about the rules?

Quote
1) When a unit falls back. Is it the intention that they are now WITHIN or WITHOUT one BW? i.e. would they need to make only restricted or charge moves?

A unit that falls back 1BW remains within 1BW of the opponent (see Distances p4).

Quote
2) Motivation stat seems more important than any other. your units are useless unless you can put them into a position where they get to do something.
Infact the motivation * the move is the important stat. Is that taken into account with the points? i.e. 2D6 2BW is at least TWICE as good as 2d6 1BW.

Motivation is important.  More important than other abilities?   :-\

Quote
3) is there an ultimate restriction on movement? If I blow all my CPs on a unit is it OK I can charge it 10BW? THis may lead to your unit getting isolated, but with a fear causing unit they can hold their own quite nicely.

There is no restrictions on the maximum distance that can be generated by a CP-boosted Motivations test.
You could charge 10BW if the Motivation roll generates that distance and terrain doesn't limit you.
It would lead to a unit being isolated.  

Quote
4) I understand that you can add in as many CPs after a roll is made. Can you add them one at a time? or must they be all at once.

That's up to you, either way is fine, provided the CPs are spent immediately before or after the dice are rolled.
Note also, that you can continue to spend CP until you decide to stop.
E.g. you roll 2d6 and fail a Motivation test.  So you spend 2 CP and roll +2d6.  Still fail, so you could spend more CP, etc.

Quote
5) We had an odd situation arising. When I used dragon men and cannon - at extreme range it was in my interest to blow all my CPs on a single cannon shot. I didn't have other stuff to spend them on. This made my cannon most effective at really long range. This seemed an odd quirk.
My opponent could save his command points for a protection roll, but he needed them for motivation to try to close the gap.

How does it make your cannon 'most effective' at long range?

If I were your opponent, i'd consider the use of terrain to break up your cannon's sight lines.   :D

Quote
6) Having said that my opponent was able to avoid my cannon almost all the time by getting out of the firing lane. The Slow Shot I assume I am right in applying it even if the cannon only twists on the spot.

Yes, slow shot applies if your unit makes any motivated move (basic, restricted, melee), even to pivot on the spot.

Quote
7) When are you allowed to charge a unit in the flank. From the example it seems that you can do it if you have enough movement, no matter your start position.

Cheers

The flank attack bonus applies based on the position of the unit at the completion of its melee charge move (p23).  If your unit has the move to get around onto an opponents flank, it may do so.  Positioning of units to prevent this is wise.   ;)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: angstboy on 16 March 2015, 11:57:13 PM
Thank you for the previous responses, they've filled in a number of my questions.  One more question though: during the Protection phase, can you "heal" wounds taken on previous turns, or only on the turn that they were inflicted?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 17 March 2015, 12:22:56 AM
Hi angstboy,

Your commander can use three Command Points for the rally inspiration to restore a lost Morale point on any friendly unit.  
This includes Morale lost in previous turns or during this turn.  

You can rally multiple Morale points on one or more units, provided you have the CPs to do so.

Note that the unit being rallied cannot be within 1BW of any enemy unit.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 17 March 2015, 09:36:04 PM
Is there a points formula for units?

I'm trying to put together a list based (loosely) on the Hoplite-era Greeks, plus some mythological beasties - mainly due to having a load of them for Warmaster than never got finished.

Most of the units I can figure out, but some I can't find similar units elsewhere; it would be handy if I could come up with appropriate points for them.

Cheers,

KD
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 17 March 2015, 11:37:24 PM
http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11713.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11713.0.html)

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 18 March 2015, 08:05:07 AM
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Ironduke on 18 March 2015, 09:34:52 AM
It may have been asked before, if so apologies but is movement measured or hex/grid based

Thanks guys

Craig
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 18 March 2015, 10:32:00 AM
Quote from: Ironduke on 18 March 2015, 09:34:52 AM
It may have been asked before, if so apologies but is movement measured or hex/grid based

Thanks guys

Craig

Hi Craig,

Movement is measured, using the scalable 'base width' metric.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Ironduke on 18 March 2015, 12:07:19 PM
Thankyou Chieftain
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: ricardo440 on 18 March 2015, 09:21:34 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 16 March 2015, 08:18:07 PM
Hi Ricardo

Glad you liked them!  Would you consider putting up a batrep thread, or perhaps a 'review of your thoughts about the rules?

A unit that falls back 1BW remains within 1BW of the opponent (see Distances p4).

Motivation is important.  More important than other abilities?   :-\

There is no restrictions on the maximum distance that can be generated by a CP-boosted Motivations test.
You could charge 10BW if the Motivation roll generates that distance and terrain doesn't limit you.
It would lead to a unit being isolated.  

That's up to you, either way is fine, provided the CPs are spent immediately before or after the dice are rolled.
Note also, that you can continue to spend CP until you decide to stop.
E.g. you roll 2d6 and fail a Motivation test.  So you spend 2 CP and roll +2d6.  Still fail, so you could spend more CP, etc.

How does it make your cannon 'most effective' at long range?

If I were your opponent, i'd consider the use of terrain to break up your cannon's sight lines.   :D

Yes, slow shot applies if your unit makes any motivated move (basic, restricted, melee), even to pivot on the spot.

The flank attack bonus applies based on the position of the unit at the completion of its melee charge move (p23).  If your unit has the move to get around onto an opponents flank, it may do so.  Positioning of units to prevent this is wise.   ;)

Cheers for the replies.

Cannon: When you are at extreme range you can afford to throw all your CPs into a single cannon shot. At close range you have far more to spend your points on, so won't be rolling 12d6 attacks.
The actual experience was that the cannon was not dominating in any meaningful sense. It did screw the opponents moves up as he tried to stay out of firing lanes. So I think it worked nicely in that respect.

New question:
With the magic missile spell everyone has. We assumed you could only buy each bonus (+1 range etc...) once. But we were unsure. in other sections of the rules it said +1d6 PER command point. It didn't do that with the spell so we figured you couldn't make a super long range/6 dice spell.
However I thought it might be wrong...?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 18 March 2015, 09:27:21 PM
Quote from: ricardo440

New question:
With the magic missile spell everyone has. We assumed you could only buy each bonus (+1 range etc...) once. But we were unsure. in other sections of the rules it said +1d6 PER command point. It didn't do that with the spell so we figured you couldn't make a super long range/6 dice spell.
However I thought it might be wrong...?


You may spend as many magic points as you like on the relevant 'magic missle' spell.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 25 March 2015, 07:19:25 AM
A couple of questions came up in our second (fun) game last night.

1: When using Magic, if you have rolled a high number of magic Points, can you use the same spell more than once in a turn?

2: When a unit is damaged and has lost 2 points of Morale, if it then suffers just 1 more point loss next turn, when throwing for Protection, can you 'save' points of damage from previous turns, so the unit that suffered just one potential hit/damage this turn could actually pass its 2 protection rolls and save 2 points of Morale, or can it only save damage suffered this turn?
(Have  explained that well enough?)

Other than that we had great fun last night and even these points were discussed in a nice sensible manner, but then I have been gaming with these guys for over 25 years.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 25 March 2015, 08:55:41 AM
Quote from: Bodvoc on 25 March 2015, 07:19:25 AM
1: When using Magic, if you have rolled a high number of magic Points, can you use the same spell more than once in a turn?

Yes.  You can cast the same spell multiple times.

And you can cast multiple spells on the same unit.  In this case, ability bonuses stack, but special abilities only apply once.

Quote2: When a unit is damaged and has lost 2 points of Morale, if it then suffers just 1 more point loss next turn, when throwing for Protection, can you 'save' points of damage from previous turns, so the unit that suffered just one potential hit/damage this turn could actually pass its 2 protection rolls and save 2 points of Morale, or can it only save damage suffered this turn?
(Have  explained that well enough?)

No.

Protection rolls remove Hits.  They do not restore lost Morale.  Any 'un-saved' Hits reduce Morale, and do not carry over to following turns.

To restore lost Morale requires the expenditure of Command Points with the Rally inspiration action.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 25 March 2015, 10:17:38 AM
Brilliant, many thanks for the quick reply, that is how we played it so I am glad we got it right, a couple of the players asked the questions so I thought it worth getting clarification.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bloodaxe on 02 April 2015, 05:09:28 AM
Ive noticed that Dire Wolves in the Eldritch Vampire list & the Undead list are different. Was this on purpose or missed?

Maybe there should be an Errata thread so we can list errors & such. There is a thread, but we cannot post or add to it.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Upgraydd on 02 April 2015, 05:13:55 AM
I think it's that the vampires have Werwolves and Undead have Direwolves.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bloodaxe on 02 April 2015, 05:29:42 AM
Quote from: Upgraydd on 02 April 2015, 05:13:55 AM
I think it's that the vampires have Werwolves and Undead have Direwolves.

No, Werewolves are a separate entry.  Eldritch Vampires have dire Wolves in Core for 34 points. Undead have them in Optional for 26 points, with 1 less MT.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 02 April 2015, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: Bloodaxe on 02 April 2015, 05:29:42 AM
No, Werewolves are a separate entry.  Eldritch Vampires have dire Wolves in Core for 34 points. Undead have them in Optional for 26 points, with 1 less MT.


That's correct.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bloodaxe on 02 April 2015, 03:13:17 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 02 April 2015, 08:14:07 AM
That's correct.

So it was intentional for there two be Dire Wolves with two different sets of stats/points? Or typo?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 02 April 2015, 03:47:39 PM
They are intentionally different. 

The dire wolves under the influence of the eldritch vampires are possessed of more motivation than those in the slower and more sluggish undead army.

In general the undead army suffers motivation and movement problems (after all their troops are dead!)

Whereas the eldritch vampires troops are more mobile, because most of them are alive (although enthralled).
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bloodaxe on 02 April 2015, 04:41:32 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 02 April 2015, 03:47:39 PM
They are intentionally different. 

The dire wolves under the influence of the eldritch vampires are possessed of more motivation than those in the slower and more sluggish undead army.

In general the undead army suffers motivation and movement problems (after all their troops are dead!)

Whereas the eldritch vampires troops are more mobile, because most of them are alive (although enthralled).

Ok, thanks!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 08 April 2015, 09:00:37 AM
We had another fun game last night, Barbarians v. Dragon Men. One point came up in the game regarding the 'Impetuous' rule. If a magic User casts a spell that involves making troops Impetuous do all affected units have to make a full move forward, thus suffering one automatic hit, or can you still make normal basic and charge moves with some units whilst allowing others to do the full impetuous move?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 08 April 2015, 10:14:44 AM
Quote from: Bodvoc on 08 April 2015, 09:00:37 AM
We had another fun game last night, Barbarians v. Dragon Men. One point came up in the game regarding the 'Impetuous' rule. If a magic User casts a spell that involves making troops Impetuous do all affected units have to make a full move forward, thus suffering one automatic hit, or can you still make normal basic and charge moves with some units whilst allowing others to do the full impetuous move?
Thanks in advance for any help.

Hi Bodvoc,

'An impetuous unit that fails, or does not attempt, a motivation test during its move phase must make an 'impetuous move' at the end of that move phase'

So, yes you can still attempt to make normal motivated moves (basic, restricted, or charge). 
Any unit with the impetuous special ability that fails to make a motivated move, or doesn't attempt to, must them make an impetuous charge during the impetuous moves phase.

Note that an impetuous charge 'must be made towards the closest visible enemy unit'.  So unlike normal charges you are limited to intending to charge the closest enemy unit, as well as taking a hit from the disruption.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Bodvoc on 08 April 2015, 11:06:14 AM
A quick reply once again, many thanks. I thought we got it right during the game and so it is good to have that clarified by your good self,
cheers!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 20 April 2015, 08:25:07 AM
If a unit suffers 'normal' and 'powerful' hits, are all hits rolled against in the protection phase at -1d6, or just the 'powerful' ones? We have been playing the former, but I'd thought I'd check :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 April 2015, 08:34:59 AM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 20 April 2015, 08:25:07 AM
If a unit suffers 'normal' and 'powerful' hits, are all hits rolled against in the protection phase at -1d6, or just the 'powerful' ones? We have been playing the former, but I'd thought I'd check :)

If a unit recieves any hit with the powerful special ability,  then it suffers -1d6 Protection for the turn. So yes, in cases where a unit suffers hits from a unit with powerful, and hits from a unit without powerful, then the -1d6 penalty applies.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 20 April 2015, 10:11:16 AM
Thanks :)

This makes powerful ranged units really handy! :D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: ricardo440 on 20 April 2015, 10:16:49 PM
your question doesn't really make sense. as -1d6 vs the powerful hits is the same as -1d6 vs all hits.

It wouldn't matter anyway.

You roll ONLY ONE protection roll against ALL accumulated hits for the ENTIRE turn.
From your question it sounds like you are rolling protection against each source of hits.

e.g. A protection 2d6 takes 2 hits then 1 hit then 1 hit.

You roll 2 dice to save against 4 hits. Not 2 dice against 2 then 2 dice against one and then 2 dice against one.
(i.e. it is impossible to save it all, the best you can do is take only 2 morale loss)

e.g. A protection 2d6 takes 2 hits then 1 hit then 1 hit Powerful hit.
Just rolls ONE dice against all 4 hits. (so will either take 3 or 4 morale loss)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 08:34:45 AM
Made sense to me.... As I said we had been playing it as Chieftain advised - I just wanted confirmation.

Three more questions arose from last night's game:

1) If a unit gets shot at from the rear (took no other hits from elsewhere) and takes sufficient hits to cause a fall back, does it fall back towards the shooters, or away?

The situation we had was that a unit of Elven Knights were facing their own base line, had a unit of Dwarven Gyrocopters park behind them within 1BW, shoot, and cause two hits. As per the rules, the Knights should have "fallen back" towards the gyros, but couldn't because of the 1BW, so took another hit. I suggested that the Knights would have "fallen back" towards their own table edge, as that was the way they were facing and the immediate threat was to their rear.

2) If a unit is Formed, do you have to motivate it to get the free 180 degree turn? I.e. the unit wants to just turn in place and nothing else (and it's not in combat).

3) If two friendly units are in combat with a single unit, and that unit routs and is pursued and destroyed by one friendly unit, can the other friendly unit pursue as well? I.e. do the two friendly units move simultaneously, or one after the other, or it doesn't matter?

KD
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 21 April 2015, 08:52:07 AM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 08:34:45 AM
1) If a unit gets shot at from the rear (took no other hits from elsewhere) and takes sufficient hits to cause a fall back, does it fall back towards the shooters, or away?

It falls back to its own rear.  In the chaos of the battle, the unit is turned around and unsure where the arrows are coming from.  Their natural instinct is to fall back to their own rear, even if this is towards an enemy.  Confusion's like that!   :D

QuoteThe situation we had was that a unit of Elven Knights were facing their own base line, had a unit of Dwarven Gyrocopters park behind them within 1BW, shoot, and cause two hits. As per the rules, the Knights should have "fallen back" towards the gyros, but couldn't because of the 1BW, so took another hit. I suggested that the Knights would have "fallen back" towards their own table edge, as that was the way they were facing and the immediate threat was to their rear.

In this case, think of the knights as panicking, unsure where to go (hence the extra hit).   ;)

Quote2) If a unit is Formed, do you have to motivate it to get the free 180 degree turn? I.e. the unit wants to just turn in place and nothing else (and it's not in combat).

Yes, it has to be motivated.

Quote3) If two friendly units are in combat with a single unit, and that unit routs and is pursued and destroyed by one friendly unit, can the other friendly unit pursue as well? I.e. do the two friendly units move simultaneously, or one after the other, or it doesn't matter?

Yes, both units may pursuit (in some cases they must pursue).  They pursue in sequence, so if the first destroys the routed opponent, the second may pursue (charge) another enemy unit.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 09:21:34 AM
Cool - thanks for the quick response :D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 21 April 2015, 10:41:38 AM
Quote from: Chieftain on 21 April 2015, 08:52:07 AM
It falls back to its own rear.  In the chaos of the battle, the unit is turned around and unsure where the arrows are coming from.  Their natural instinct is to fall back to their own rear, even if this is towards an enemy.  Confusion's like that!   :D

In this case, think of the knights as panicking, unsure where to go (hence the extra hit).   ;)

Yes, it has to be motivated.

Yes, both units may pursuit (in some cases they must pursue).  They pursue in sequence, so if the first destroys the routed opponent, the second may pursue (charge) another enemy unit.

So what is the sequence of persuit which unit is the FIRST? in your answer, who move first is it my choice?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 10:59:52 AM
We chose the unit that was the most to the front of the routing unit to go first. In our situation, one friendly unit was to the front and the other alongside the first, but contacting the enemy unit's side. Hopefully that makes sense - a picture would help to explain what I mean...

(http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/95366768/Rout%20diagram.png)

Unit A went first, followed by B
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 21 April 2015, 11:31:01 AM
Hi Roxxi

Quote
So what is the sequence of persuit which unit is the FIRST? in your answer, who move first is it my choice?

The attacker makes all their pursuit moves first, then the defender (as per the rout and pursuit phase of the turn sequence).

The attacker/defender can choose the order in which their own units make pursuit moves.  I'd suggest the sequence that maximises your advantages!   :)  So, you could pursue with a fast unit, destroy the routed unit, and this would then free up your other pursuing unit to make a melee charge move.

So in kiwidave's example, you can choose either Unit A or Unit B to pursue first.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Techno on 21 April 2015, 12:48:21 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 21 April 2015, 10:41:38 AM
So what is the sequence of persuit which unit is the FIRST? in your answer, who move first is it my choice?

As that was your first post, Roxxy.......
A very warm welcome to the forum.
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 21 April 2015, 02:10:23 PM
Quote from: Techno on 21 April 2015, 12:48:21 PM
As that was your first post, Roxxy.......
A very warm welcome to the forum.
Cheers - Phil

Thanks enjoying the rules so far. relatively simple but stuff to think about....nice
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 03:20:21 PM
Just been reminded about some more questions:

1) Is the Hero ability cumulative? e.g. An elven unit has a Hero; mage casts Blinding Glory (?) which gives all units within 4BW the Hero ability. Does the unit with an actual Hero get another CP for this turn?

2) Is Protection cumulative in the same way - e.g. cast the elven spell twice which gives +1d6 protection (and Resolute)?

3) Can a general's CP be increased beyond his maximum via magic?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 21 April 2015, 03:44:15 PM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 03:20:21 PM
Just been reminded about some more questions:

1) Is the Hero ability cumulative? e.g. An elven unit has a Hero; mage casts Blinding Glory (?) which gives all units within 4BW the Hero ability. Does the unit with an actual Hero get another CP for this turn?

In all cases, a unit benefits from a special ability once only.  Additional applications of that special ability have no further effect.  So in this case a unit with Hero, ignores the second Hero .

Quote2) Is Protection cumulative in the same way - e.g. cast the elven spell twice which gives +1d6 protection (and Resolute)?

Modifiers to abilities are always cumulative.  Plusses added before minuses are removed.

So if a unit if affected by a spell and gains +1d6 Protection and the Resolute special ability, and then is affected by a second casting of that spell, it would then have +2d6 and Resolute.

Quote3) Can a general's CP be increased beyond his maximum via magic?

Yes.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 03:53:09 PM
Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Pursuit Move
Post by: Roxxy on 22 April 2015, 01:42:29 PM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 21 April 2015, 03:53:09 PM
Thanks again :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Pursuit Move
Post by: Roxxy on 22 April 2015, 01:51:26 PM

One more question. Is the pursuing unit restricted by limiting terrain it passes through, or is in, as per normal moves? example a knight unit pushes back a bow unit on a hill. the bow moves 1BW the knight follows up 1BW. Is the follow up distance halved because of the hill effect? so no new contact is made.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Pursuit Move
Post by: Chieftain on 22 April 2015, 02:16:45 PM
Hi Roxxy,

Quote from: Roxxy on 22 April 2015, 01:51:26 PM
Is the pursuing unit restricted by limiting terrain it passes through, or is in, as per normal moves?

Yes it is.

Quoteexample a knight unit pushes back a bow unit on a hill. the bow moves 1BW the knight follows up 1BW. Is the follow up distance halved because of the hill effect? so no new contact is made.

There is no 'follow up distance', there is a pursuit move, which is basically a melee charge move.

In your example:

1.  The bow unit falls back - it moves 1BW directly backwards onto the hill.  It treats this hill as open terrain (not limited) due to the fall back move.

2.  The knights may now make a pursuit move.  This is a melee charge move, made as if it had succeeded with all of its Motivation dice.  All usual melee charge rules apply.  So in this case, the knights move 4BW (2 successes times 2 move), halved to 2BW due to the limiting terrain (hill).  This will be enough to contact the archers, even up the hill.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 26 April 2015, 01:25:57 PM
Hi,

Still working on my first army, but I have a few questions/clarifications from reading the rules through a time or two.

First, I am correct in taking it that if a commander is reduced to 0 morale in the protection and morale phase, but has three CP left, then (assuming there are no enemy within 1BW at this point) he can still rally back 1 morale on himself before he routs?

Second, on group moves. It says that all units in the group move as if they succeeded in their motivation roll to the same degree as the commander does. Does this still apply if the commander achieves more successes than a unit's MV score?

Three, the samurai ape spell 'beneath the mountain's egg' stops enemy units from moving. The taurian spell 'walk the forever maze' allows friendly units to make unlimited moves. Which takes priority? I'm guessing the latter as the former specifies no motivated moves, among other things, whereas the latter allows the designated units to make their unlimited moves without any motivation roll, but is that correct?

Four, most of the spells specify an immediate effect or a duration, but the clause for the first option in the undead spell 'summon the fresh dead' simply says '...gain +1D6 Protection and the regenerate special ability;...' Should it add 'for the current turn' or is it really for the rest of the battle?  :o

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 26 April 2015, 04:31:41 PM
Hi Jim,

Quote from: JimLeCat on 26 April 2015, 01:25:57 PM
Still working on my first army,

Can't wait to see it sir!

Quotebut I have a few questions/clarifications from reading the rules through a time or two.

First, I am correct in taking it that if a commander is reduced to 0 morale in the protection and morale phase, but has three CP left, then (assuming there are no enemy within 1BW at this point) he can still rally back 1 morale on himself before he routs?

Yes you are correct.

QuoteSecond, on group moves. It says that all units in the group move as if they succeeded in their motivation roll to the same degree as the commander does. Does this still apply if the commander achieves more successes than a unit's MV score?

Do you mean motivation rather than move (MV)?

If so, yes. 
You make a group move, all units in the group multiply their movement by the commander units motivation successess.  This can mean that a unit can gain more successes from the commander than they otherwise would.  It also means that units with a motivation ability greater than the commander unit will lose out on the dice roll.

E.g. a hill dwarf commander (MT 2d6), unit of boulder elementals (MT 1d6), and gyrocopter unit (MT 3d6) move as a group and the commander rolls 2 successes.  the boulder elements will move further than they normally could, whereas the gyrocopter will move slower than it potentially could.

QuoteThree, the samurai ape spell 'beneath the mountain's egg' stops enemy units from moving. The taurian spell 'walk the forever maze' allows friendly units to make unlimited moves. Which takes priority? I'm guessing the latter as the former specifies no motivated moves, among other things, whereas the latter allows the designated units to make their unlimited moves without any motivation roll, but is that correct?

Beneath the Mountain's Egg prevents all motivated moves.  Walk the Forever Maze gives a free and unlimited motivated move.  In this case, Beneath the Mountain's Egg, would prevent the motivated move granted by Walk the Forever Maze (but not the other benefits of that spell).

QuoteFour, most of the spells specify an immediate effect or a duration, but the clause for the first option in the undead spell 'summon the fresh dead' simply says '...gain +1D6 Protection and the regenerate special ability;...' Should it add 'for the current turn' or is it really for the rest of the battle?  :o

Yes, it should be 'until the end of the turn', like all spell efects.  Its an error that slipped through the net.   >:(  Already spotted and in the errata.   ;)  http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11473.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,11473.0.html)

Cheers
Chieftain
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 26 April 2015, 06:25:07 PM
Hi Chieftain,

Doubtless you will, when it's ready!

Thanks for the answers, I did mean motivation not move, I misrembered the short name when typing...  :(

I did read the errata thread a little while ago, either it hadn't been added then or I just forgot - and either way it didn't occur to me to check it before posting!  :(

The rules read very well and seem very clear to me. I wouldn't worry about having a few minor errors like that - there is always something gets through and if the few bits and pieces in that thread are all that slipped through, then you did a very good job!  8)

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 28 April 2015, 10:50:21 PM
Quick couple of questions from last night's game - Report and pictures due in a day or two. (I know, tease  ;D)

Can Flying bases gain uphill? We assumed flying does not confer uphill, but it the enemy are below hill of the flying units...?

If you pursue, can you still claim Shieldwall? We assumed not since the rules clearly indicate a pursuit into contact is a charge move, the troops losing the benefit of massed shields as they chase off the enemy... Hastings anyone?

Thanks,

Steve
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 April 2015, 11:18:04 PM
Hi Steve,

Quote from: stenicplus on 28 April 2015, 10:50:21 PM
Can Flying bases gain uphill? We assumed flying does not confer uphill, but it the enemy are below hill of the flying units...?

Yes they can.  Flyers in melee are assumed to have descended to the ground to engage in the fight and therefore get the bonus.

QuoteIf you pursue, can you still claim Shieldwall? We assumed not since the rules clearly indicate a pursuit into contact is a charge move, the troops losing the benefit of massed shields as they chase off the enemy... Hastings anyone?

This one suffers from perhaps a lack of clarity around the wording in the shieldwall special ability (i'll add it to the errata).  It should say:

'A shieldwall unit;
•   Gains +1d6 Protection if it did not make a motivated move: basic, restricted, or charge move this turn...'

A pursuit move is an outcome move, therefore although it is conducted as a melee charge move after the protection and morale phase it does not prevent the shieldwall special ability taking effect.

So to answer your question; a unit can claim its shieldwall protection (provided that it did not take a motivated move this turn) and then make a outcome move: pursuit.

Note: As a general point, there are some other references to 'basic, restricted, or charge moves' throughout the rules.  These apply to motivated moves also.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 29 April 2015, 08:22:20 AM
That makes Dwarves even tougher to kill!  :'(  :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Luddite on 29 April 2015, 11:21:14 AM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 29 April 2015, 08:22:20 AM
That makes Dwarves even tougher to kill!  :'(  :)

True but judging by the battle reports so far, the little chaps need all the help they can get!   ;D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 05 May 2015, 11:45:25 PM
Hi,

On the subject of flyers blocking fallbacks/routs, if they don't contact any ground units in their normal move, do they need to declare that they are landing behind the enemy battle line, or can you just take for granted that they will swoop down if an enemy falls back/routs toward them?

Also, why do samurai apes get resolute for free when every eligible unit from other army lists has to pay 5 points?

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 06 May 2015, 11:41:24 AM
Hi JimLeCat,

Quote from: JimLeCat on 05 May 2015, 11:45:25 PM
On the subject of flyers blocking fallbacks/routs, if they don't contact any ground units in their normal move, do they need to declare that they are landing behind the enemy battle line, or can you just take for granted that they will swoop down if an enemy falls back/routs toward them?

Good question.  I'll try to be as clear as i can.

Flyers blocking fall back moves

'A fall back move is blocked if any of the following conditions apply.  The unit;
1. Is contacted on two different base edges,
2. Is contacted on both a front corner and a rear corner,
3. Cannot complete a full 1BW move (e.g. it is prevented by friends, enemies, a table edge or impassable terrain),  or
4. Cannot move far enough to end out of contact with all enemy units (including corner contact).' p23

So...if a flyer unit contributes to point 1. or point 2. it will block the fall back.

However, 'Flyers: Can interpenetrate and be interpenetrated by enemy non-flying units, as part of any move.' p10  
Note that to begin an interpenetration you must be able to pass completely through.

So for points 3. and 4., the unit falling back 1BW can interpenetrate a flyers unit (unless it is itself a flyer).  
Depending on the relative unit positions, its therefore possible (although unlikely) to be able to fall back through an enemy flyers unit.  
Since a fall back move is a fixed 1BW, it should be easy to position flyers to be able to prevent the full interpenetration (and therefore block the fall back).

Flyers blocking rout moves

For the rout move, a non-flying unit can interpenetrate a flying unit (running under it!) provided it is able to pass completely through.
Of course, flyers can still destroy routing units by moving into contact with it as part of any move.

Quote
Also, why do samurai apes get resolute for free when every eligible unit from other army lists has to pay 5 points?

They dont.  Resolute costs +5pts in each case.

I'll add it to the errata.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 06 May 2015, 08:00:04 PM
OK, so in summary airborne flyers don't stop units passing wholly underneath them, but will block any unit which would otherwise stop underneath them?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 07 May 2015, 09:49:19 AM
For the movement conditions, yes.   :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JimLeCat on 10 May 2015, 04:18:09 PM
Hi,

I have another couple of questions, this time on Shieldwall.

According to the rules Shieldwall gives a protection bonus to units that don't make a motivated move and which aren't in melee contact with enemy to their flank or rear.

First question, does that mean they still get the protection if shot at from the flank or rear?

Second question, if a Formed unit with Shieldwall turns to face an attacking enemy to its flank or rear, do they keep the Shieldwall bonus? After the answer above, I'm guessing yes, but I thought it best to check...

Cheers,
Jim
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 10 May 2015, 04:23:40 PM
Quote from: JimLeCat on 10 May 2015, 04:18:09 PM
According to the rules Shieldwall gives a protection bonus to units that don't make a motivated move and which aren't in melee contact with enemy to their flank or rear.

First question, does that mean they still get the protection if shot at from the flank or rear?

Yes.

Shieldwall is a 'defensive position' or the unit taking measures to protect themselves.  It encompasses and actual shield wall defense, pavises, and other defensive measures (as detailed in the Shieldwall special ability description.

QuoteSecond question, if a Formed unit with Shieldwall turns to face an attacking enemy to its flank or rear, do they keep the Shieldwall bonus? After the answer above, I'm guessing yes, but I thought it best to check...


Yes.

The unit is reacting in this case to an enemy attack, and is therefore maintaining its defensive posture.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 May 2015, 03:06:36 PM
Skirmish query from Madpax:

It seems theis topic didn't appear here, so I'm sorry if this had been discussed before, but how do you resolve the following problems:
A skirmish unit, which didn't moved this turn, is charged. It decides to evade and succeeds. I suppose it can evade away from the charging unit, but could it, instead, 'counter-charge', in essence cancelling the enemy charge?

Marc


Hi Marc,

An evade move is a basic or restricted move, not a melee charge move.  Therefore you cannot 'countercharge'.

:)


Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 May 2015, 03:09:32 PM
Question on automatic hits from madpax here:  http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12217.msg167450.html#msg167450 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12217.msg167450.html#msg167450)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 May 2015, 03:14:28 PM
Charge question from madpax here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12168.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12168.0.html)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 May 2015, 03:15:08 PM
CP use question from madpax here: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12176.0.html (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,12176.0.html)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: madpax on 28 May 2015, 06:05:46 PM
Thanks for your patience on my stoopid questions.  ;)

BTW, I know it could cost you some work time, but is it possible to regroup all Q&A on the first message to avoid us to look at all the pages here (I did it on another forum and it was handy for people)?

Marc
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 May 2015, 06:38:19 PM
Your questions aren't 'stoopid'!   :D

I'll see what i can do about making the Q&A more user friendly.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 16 June 2015, 10:23:49 AM
"Powerful" ability, is the unit Powerful or just its primary attack?

Ie, does artillery count as powerful when in melee? Is a dragon's breath powerful in shooting?

My read is yes, it applies to the unit, but the question has come up so for the avoidance of doubt..?

Also, flying units being unable to count as "attacking" a flank\rear... Does that apply to shooting attacks too? I read that it does but it would semm to make flying poor value?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 16 June 2015, 10:36:45 AM
Quote from: stenicplus on 16 June 2015, 10:23:49 AM
"Powerful" ability, is the unit Powerful or just its primary attack?

Powerful applies to any attack the unit makes, shooting or melee.

Quote
Also, flying units being unable to count as "attacking" a flank\rear... Does that apply to shooting attacks too? I read that it does but it would semm to make flying poor value?

Yes.  Flyers never get flank bonuses for shooting or melee.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 16 June 2015, 12:04:44 PM
Thanks for the quick response  :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fred. on 06 July 2015, 07:04:46 PM
Behind Defences

When do you get this defensive advantage? When this is doubled for Forest Walkers it is very powerful.

The rule is clear that at least half-the unit must be within the terrain.

But do you get it in all the following situations

1) Target of Shooting
2) Charged by the enemy
3) When you charge (if you remain in the wood)
4) In subsequent rounds of combat

We played that the unit gets the bonus on 1 and 2. But I do wonder if the intent is also on 3 and 4?. But on 3 and 4 its likely that both combatants get the bonus.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 07 July 2015, 12:00:00 AM
Quote from: fred    12df on 06 July 2015, 07:04:46 PM
Behind Defences

When do you get this defensive advantage? When this is doubled for Forest Walkers it is very powerful.

The rule is clear that at least half-the unit must be within the terrain.

But do you get it in all the following situations

1) Target of Shooting
2) Charged by the enemy
3) When you charge (if you remain in the wood)
4) In subsequent rounds of combat

We played that the unit gets the bonus on 1 and 2. But I do wonder if the intent is also on 3 and 4?. But on 3 and 4 its likely that both combatants get the bonus.

1) Target of Shooting  Yes

2) Charged by the enemy  Yes

3) When you charge (if you remain in the wood)  Yes

4) In subsequent rounds of combat  Yes

And yes, it can apply to two opposing units fighting in melee (or shooting at each other) in the same terrain.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fred. on 07 July 2015, 07:30:05 AM
Thanks. This makes Forest Walkers in woods very tough.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 12 July 2015, 03:42:36 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 01 February 2015, 10:13:01 PM
Ask your rules questions here!   :-B

If you're finding a rule or situation problematic, this is the thread for you!  Ask your rules questions, or pose any problems you've encountered through play here.

The Warband oracle will provide clarifications and explanations over rules that might be confusing you.

(http://www.kpelavrio.info/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/delphi_1812_jpg_600x.jpg)

Hi
Following a game of Wb we had two situations re shooting arise on which I would like your view. 1. An Elven archer unit was shooting from completely within a wood but less than 1 BW from its edge. Can the unit shoot out?
2. An Elven unit was shooting at a unit to its front, the line of site passed through two separate pieces of terrain, both of which did not add up to 1BW. We, I assumed I could still shoot as it was not more than 1BW. Is this correct?
Thanks Rox
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 12 July 2015, 04:09:22 PM
Quote from: Rox1. An Elven archer unit was shooting from completely within a wood but less than 1 BW from its edge. Can the unit shoot out?

Yes, provided there is no more than 1BW of terrain being shot through.

Quote from: Rox2. An Elven unit was shooting at a unit to its front, the line of site passed through two separate pieces of terrain, both of which did not add up to 1BW. We, I assumed I could still shoot as it was not more than 1BW. Is this correct?

Yes, this is correct.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 12 July 2015, 04:18:55 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 12 July 2015, 04:09:22 PM
Yes, provided there is no more than 1BW of terrain being shot through.

Yes, this is correct.

:)
As I thought, thanks
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 14 July 2015, 11:40:25 AM
A couple of questions from last night's game...

We had Mike's new Taurian army vs my Dwarves.... More on that in the report but in the meantime:

Must evaders move their full distance? We assumed no but the  player needs to consider the charger may get extra motivation dice.

Can an evader use Parting Shoot? We assumed no as an evade states no further movement is allowed.

Must you follow through a charge move once declared? We determined  yes as it would be odd otherwise.  So I charge, he evades but only a short distance (assume blocked etc...). I motivate and can reach , do I have to?

Related to the previous question - Do you have to roll all your normal motivation dice? We had a few times where it was in my interest to scatter Mike's centaur archers but not get too close or even hit then and get isolated.

Still loving the game :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 14 July 2015, 01:44:21 PM
Quote from: stenicplus on 14 July 2015, 11:40:25 AM
Still loving the game :)

Only coz your smelly Dwarves keep winning :p
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 14 July 2015, 02:21:59 PM
QuoteMust evaders move their full distance? We assumed no but the  player needs to consider the charger may get extra motivation dice.

No.  The evade move is a basic or restricted move and can be made under those conditions.

QuoteCan an evader use Parting Shoot? We assumed no as an evade states no further movement is allowed.

No it cannot.  The parting shot is a restricted move at the beginning of the shooting phase, and is therefore denied by the evade condition of 'no further move'.  This should say 'no further motivated move' as of course outcome moves are still possible.

QuoteMust you follow through a charge move once declared? We determined  yes as it would be odd otherwise.  So I charge, he evades but only a short distance (assume blocked etc...). I motivate and can reach , do I have to?

No.  As detailed under the charge movement rules, you can turn a charge into a basic or restricted move.

QuoteRelated to the previous question - Do you have to roll all your normal motivation dice? We had a few times where it was in my interest to scatter Mike's centaur archers but not get too close or even hit then and get isolated.

Yes, if you choose to move a unit you must roll all the Motivation dice you have available (including those added by CP).  However, as detailed under Motivation, you can change your mind over the type of move.  So you can declare a charge move, roll the dice, and then decide to make a basic move.

Note, you can choose not to move a unit (so prompt your unit to make an impetuous move).

QuoteStill loving the game

:D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 14 July 2015, 03:12:27 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 14 July 2015, 02:21:59 PM
Yes, if you choose to move a unit you must roll all the Motivation dice you have available (including those added by CP).  However, as detailed under Motivation, you can change your mind over the type of move.  So you can declare a charge move, roll the dice, and then decide to make a basic move.

Does this mean that the player has to decide before the motivation roll how many CP to add to it? We've been playing that you can add CP before or after the 'normal' roll
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Andy D on 14 July 2015, 03:51:06 PM
Hi ,
In the Lizard men's magic spells, does the 'Call the Scorpion' spell give the unit the abilities of Forest Scorpions ?
Cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 14 July 2015, 04:21:49 PM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 14 July 2015, 03:12:27 PM
Does this mean that the player has to decide before the motivation roll how many CP to add to it? We've been playing that you can add CP before or after the 'normal' roll

You can add them before and/or after the dice roll.

Quote from: Andy DIn the Lizard men's magic spells, does the 'Call the Scorpion' spell give the unit the abilities of Forest Scorpions ?

No.  It gives the powerful special ability.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 08:36:22 AM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 14 July 2015, 03:12:27 PM
Does this mean that the player has to decide before the motivation roll how many CP to add to it? We've been playing that you can add CP before or after the 'normal' roll

If you choose to role you generals die to move all attached units. Is it possible to boost the number of die he is going to role for Mo with a movement spell thus upping you chance of maximising his natural Movement distance, in other words Mage casts movement spell giving him extra die and he roles three instead of two, result two successes, (general roles two die without extras normally). If so can he use a third success for all his attached troops or only himself.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: FierceKitty on 20 July 2015, 10:02:47 AM
Quote from: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 08:36:22 AM
If you choose to role you generals die to move all attached units. Is it possible to boost the number of die he is going to role for Mo with a movement spell thus upping you chance of maximising his natural Movement distance, in other words Mage casts movement spell giving him extra die and he roles three instead of two, result two successes, (general roles two die without extras normally). If so can he use a third success for all his attached troops or only himself.

I wonder if this would mean anything put through the Google translator....
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 10:23:09 AM
Quote from: FierceKitty on 20 July 2015, 10:02:47 AM
I wonder if this would mean anything put through the Google translator....

? Sorry have I not made myself clear?😕
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 20 July 2015, 10:29:43 AM
I got it, I was just waiting for Chieftain to answer. ;)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 10:36:15 AM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 20 July 2015, 10:29:43 AM
I got it, I was just waiting for Chieftain to answer. ;)

ah ok
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 July 2015, 03:14:03 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 08:36:22 AM
If you choose to role you generals die to move all attached units. Is it possible to boost the number of die he is going to role for Mo with a movement spell thus upping you chance of maximising his natural Movement distance, in other words Mage casts movement spell giving him extra die and he roles three instead of two, result two successes, (general roles two die without extras normally). If so can he use a third success for all his attached troops or only himself.

OK, I think I understand,  but to make sure, you're asking;

'Can you use a spell that boosts the Commander unit's Motivation score, and then use the boosted Motivation for a group move dice roll?'

The answer is, yes you can.  Spells are cast at the start of each phase, so the effect of boosted Motivation will apply during the Commander's movement.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 20 July 2015, 03:29:24 PM
Good question!
Now I have an image of commanders on rocket powered roller skates like Wile-E-Coyote!
Meep meep!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 04:57:46 PM
Quote from: mad lemmey on 20 July 2015, 10:29:43 AM
I got it, I was just waiting for Chieftain to answer. ;)

Quote from: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 10:36:15 AM
ah ok

Great that is the question I was trying to ask, thanks.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 05:01:25 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 20 July 2015, 03:14:03 PM
OK, I think I understand,  but to make sure, you're asking;

'Can you use a spell that boosts the Commander unit's Motivation score, and then use the boosted Motivation for a group move dice roll?'

The answer is, yes you can.  Spells are cast at the start of each phase, so the effect of boosted Motivation will apply during the Commander's movement.


ok that is the question, does it therefore mean that the attached units would also move, for example, up to three times if the general had 3 sucesses out of 4 die roles.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 July 2015, 07:04:52 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 20 July 2015, 05:01:25 PM
ok that is the question, does it therefore mean that the attached units would also move, for example, up to three times if the general had 3 sucesses out of 4 die roles.

Yes.  As per the usual group move rules.  Although its worth noting the unit only makes one move, not three.  The distance for the move is multiplied by the successes.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 20 July 2015, 10:42:35 PM
Hi Chieftain,
Quick question about generals.
Assembling my new improved force (or two) of goblins. If I have a wolf rider heavy force, working on mobility, why does the general not have an option to have extra movement? If he was on a chariot or a wolf, why would he be so much slower?
Just a mad ask.
ML
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 July 2015, 11:40:49 PM
Good question ML.

Its really an attempt to make commanders slower in most armies, so that you have to think about where to place them a bit more.

If you want to rationalise it 'in game', just consider the Goblin Chief has a heavier and slower chariot, or a lot of hangers on and attendants that slow him down, or perhaps a considerable paunch.   ;)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 21 July 2015, 12:34:28 AM
Fair enough, kind of what I figured! :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: Roxxy on 21 July 2015, 01:03:31 AM
Can a Mage use a hero ability he has cast on himself to boost a magical shooting attack?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: stenicplus on 21 July 2015, 07:27:32 AM
Quote from: Roxxy on 21 July 2015, 01:03:31 AM
Can a Mage use a hero ability he has cast on himself to boost a magical shooting attack?


In other words cans CPs be used to boost and MP generated shooting attack, ie mage casts a missile attack for himself, can the general then boost this with CPs?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 21 July 2015, 07:29:47 AM
Quote from: Chieftain on 20 July 2015, 03:14:03 PM
OK, I think I understand,  but to make sure, you're asking;

'Can you use a spell that boosts the Commander unit's Motivation score, and then use the boosted Motivation for a group move dice roll?'

The answer is, yes you can.  Spells are cast at the start of each phase, so the effect of boosted Motivation will apply during the Commander's movement.



I thought a group move cannot be enhanced? Bottom of page 24 says a group move is always unmodified and cannot be enhanced... Should this be in the errata then now that we can?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 21 July 2015, 09:01:59 AM
You see this is what happens when Lemmy pressures me into answering when i don't have the rules to hand!   ;D

D'oh!

Strike the former advice.  The rules are clear.

Group Moves

The army commander unit makes a motivation test.  This cannot be modified by the commander unit's Command Points, or by any magical or other effect that would act as a command point or command point modifier; it is always an unmodified test against the commander unit's Motivation.
p24

I shall not bow to peer pressure in future.   :D

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 21 July 2015, 09:04:45 AM
Hey! How did I... Oh yeah, sorry... :(
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 21 July 2015, 01:05:16 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 21 July 2015, 09:01:59 AM
You see this is what happens when Lemmy pressures me into answering when i don't have the rules to hand!   ;D

D'oh!

Strike the former advice.  The rules are clear.

Group Moves

The army commander unit makes a motivation test.  This cannot be modified by the commander unit's Command Points, or by any magical or other effect that would act as a command point or command point modifier; it is always an unmodified test against the commander unit's Motivation.
p24

Yer we read the rules last night didn't we sten, I did not have them when
I asked the question. Was too excited about finding a cunning way to try and get my dum undead to move.
I shall not bow to peer pressure in future.   :D


Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 21 July 2015, 07:31:06 PM
Go on, you know you want to, all the cool kids are doing it!  :d
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Luddite on 21 July 2015, 08:24:02 PM
(http://absolute-health.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/peer-pressure.jpg)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: Roxxy on 23 July 2015, 10:19:06 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 21 July 2015, 01:03:31 AM
Can a Mage use a hero ability he has cast on himself to boost a magical shooting attack?
Did anyone see this question? Been waiting 3 days for reply. Thanks
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: Chieftain on 23 July 2015, 10:41:24 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 23 July 2015, 10:19:06 PM
Did anyone see this question? Been waiting 3 days for reply. Thanks

Sorry Roxxy, missed that one.

Yes.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: Roxxy on 23 July 2015, 11:42:51 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 23 July 2015, 10:41:24 PM
Sorry Roxxy, missed that one.

Yes.


Thanks
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: stenicplus on 24 July 2015, 03:27:03 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 23 July 2015, 10:41:24 PM
Sorry Roxxy, missed that one.

Yes.


Ok, so Hero CP can be added to magically cast missiles for mages.

What about the general's CPs, can they be added to an MP generated missile?

It does seem odd to be honest if you can.  8MPs and 8CPs and your magian is a damned good artillery piece.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 24 July 2015, 03:52:56 PM
This may seem an odd and convoluted question but it stems from mine and Roxy's game and the questions above.

The Undead Liche has a spell, Dominate The Lifeless Host (Eldritch list has similar).  Any chosen unit within 2BW gets Hero ability. Does this include the Liche itself?

Note page 32 says spell effects only apply to mage unit itself if it says so. The High Elf spell that grants Hero does mention the mage itself receiving the benefit, Ditto the Wood Elf spell.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A Magic shooting.
Post by: Chieftain on 24 July 2015, 05:09:40 PM
Quote from: stenicplus
Ok, so Hero CP can be added to magically cast missiles for mages.

What about the general's CPs, can they be added to an MP generated missile?

Yes.

QuoteIt does seem odd to be honest if you can.  8MPs and 8CPs and your magian is a damned good artillery piece.

It most certainly is!  But that's a huge over-commitment, given that for 3CP, your opponent can simply rally off those excess hits.  Nothing to stop you piling those CP into the magic user's spell-granted shooting attack though.

I think its worth thinking tactically about getting rid of the enemy magic user early on.  They usually have a minor impact on the game, but in the right circumstances with the right MPs, magic users can seriously affect the game.

I've learned to be very wary of goblin shamans after suffering a Surge of Savagery spell, followed immediately next turn by a maxed-out Consuming Rage spell.

Quote from: stenicplusThe Undead Liche has a spell, Dominate The Lifeless Host (Eldritch list has similar).  Any chosen unit within 2BW gets Hero ability. Does this include the Liche itself?

No.  As you say...

QuoteNote page 32 says spell effects only apply to mage unit itself if it says so. The High Elf spell that grants Hero does mention the mage itself receiving the benefit, Ditto the Wood Elf spell.

Yes, where a spell specifically mentions it can or does affect the spell caster it does.  Otherwise the spellcaster cannot be chosen to receive any benefits of a spell.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 24 July 2015, 11:45:48 PM
Ta for the quick replies.

Cool, so now I needs to gets me a mage  ;D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 28 July 2015, 01:14:32 PM
Got another teaser for you.

A restricted move is limited to 1BW. Is the limit halved if you are in limiting terrain or is the limit 1BW period and it's your successful motivation move that is halved albeit if you succeed with loads and generate a move of >1BW you are still limited to 1BW?


This came about as it was suggested that since a Skeletal archer was in the wood his max restricted move was 1/2 BW, ie the max 1BW for restricted then halved for the limiting terrain. The opposite was also suggested that the total successful move was halved first, then a max of 1BW was applied owing to the restriction.

I hope that's not too confusing.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fred. on 28 July 2015, 06:26:50 PM
Reading restricted move it doesn't mention terrain at all. So I would assume it has a max of 1BW.

If you are in terrain then your move distance is halved (motivation success x move distance x half ). If this comes out as half a BW then that's the most you can move. If it comes out as more than 1BW and you are in a Restricted move situation then you can only move a max of 1BW.

I read these as two independent rules that each have their own maximum distance. And you move the lowest of these two distances.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 July 2015, 09:09:09 PM
The restricted move is limited to an absolute maximum of 1BW.

Terrain halves the motivated move distance.

So a restricted move in terrain proceeds as follows:

1.  Roll motivation for successes to determine total BW for the move
2.  Terrain halves this BW total
3.  Restricted move imposes a maximum 1BW move after the terrain halves the move

Does that make things a bit clearer?

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 28 July 2015, 09:38:51 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 28 July 2015, 09:09:09 PM
The restricted move is limited to an absolute maximum of 1BW.

Terrain halves the motivated move distance.

So a restricted move in terrain proceeds as follows:

1.  Roll motivation for successes to determine total BW for the move
2.  Terrain halves this BW total
3.  Restricted move imposes a maximum 1BW move after the terrain halves the move

Does that make things a bit clearer?

Yes it is as I supposed, although others did not. Makes sense to me.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 29 July 2015, 07:59:07 AM
Chieftain,  yeap, that clear, ta for the response.

Ahem, as 'we' supposed Andy :). The dissenter was thrown out the car halfway up the motorway :D

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 29 July 2015, 08:14:21 AM
Hey! I acquiesced to your demands eventually ...:P

Moral victory for me though - I managed to eliminate 2 Dwarf units :D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 11 August 2015, 05:36:51 PM
Can a defensive artillery be motivated by a general as part of a group?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 11 August 2015, 07:18:36 PM
Quote from: Roxxy on 11 August 2015, 05:36:51 PM
Can a defensive artillery be motivated by a general as part of a group?


Yes.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 07 September 2015, 10:58:20 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 11 August 2015, 07:18:36 PM
Yes.

Does a flyer prevent a fall back move as it says "flyers can be interpenated by enemy units". Thus it does not prevent a full 1 BW move back even thought it would stop, effectively below the flyer? This is assuming it is not in contact/melee otherwise it would be on the ground or very close too, as it is fighting a ground unit.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 08 September 2015, 08:16:45 AM
Answered earlier Andy:

Quote
Flyers blocking fall back moves

'A fall back move is blocked if any of the following conditions apply.  The unit;
1. Is contacted on two different base edges,
2. Is contacted on both a front corner and a rear corner,
3. Cannot complete a full 1BW move (e.g. it is prevented by friends, enemies, a table edge or impassable terrain),  or
4. Cannot move far enough to end out of contact with all enemy units (including corner contact).' p23

So...if a flyer unit contributes to point 1. or point 2. it will block the fall back.

However, 'Flyers: Can interpenetrate and be interpenetrated by enemy non-flying units, as part of any move.' p10  
Note that to begin an interpenetration you must be able to pass completely through.

So for points 3. and 4., the unit falling back 1BW can interpenetrate a flyers unit (unless it is itself a flyer).  
Depending on the relative unit positions, its therefore possible (although unlikely) to be able to fall back through an enemy flyers unit.  
Since a fall back move is a fixed 1BW, it should be easy to position flyers to be able to prevent the full interpenetration (and therefore block the fall back).

Flyers blocking rout moves
For the rout move, a non-flying unit can interpenetrate a flying unit (running under it!) provided it is able to pass completely through.
Of course, flyers can still destroy routing units by moving into contact with it as part of any move.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 08 September 2015, 09:26:36 AM
Quote from: Kiwidave on 08 September 2015, 08:16:45 AM
Answered earlier Andy:

ok thanks
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: z4carlo on 28 September 2015, 10:39:11 AM
A question or 2 about Formed;

'Can make a single 180o turn for free (it does not cost 1BW) during any move in open terrain'

1. Can this be used if the unit did not move? i.e it either failed or did not attempt a motivation
2. Is 180o the only option? i.e can the unit turn 90o or any amount up to 180, this seemed somewhat logical to me but the rules seems to only allow an exact 180o turn.
3. Finally, if a unit is directly behind a formed unit which then turns and charges, is this a direct charge?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Techno on 28 September 2015, 01:14:47 PM
Sorry, Carlo.
Personally, I can't help with that. (Someone will be along soon, though, I'm sure !)

But as that was your first post, a very warm welcome to the madhouse forum.  :)
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fsn on 28 September 2015, 03:05:21 PM
Hello Carlo.

Welcome to the forum.

Don't know anything about Warband. Usually that doesn't stop me commenting, but I'm sure someone will be along with a sensible answer.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 28 September 2015, 03:08:42 PM
Hi Carlo.   :-h

Quote from: z4carlo on 28 September 2015, 10:39:11 AM
A question or 2 about Formed;

'Can make a single 180o turn for free (it does not cost 1BW) during any move in open terrain'

1. Can this be used if the unit did not move? i.e it either failed or did not attempt a motivation

No.  It must move.

Quote
2. Is 180o the only option? i.e can the unit turn 90o or any amount up to 180, this seemed somewhat logical to me but the rules seems to only allow an exact 180o turn.

180o is the only option.  It represents a simple 'about face'.

Quote
3. Finally, if a unit is directly behind a formed unit which then turns and charges, is this a direct charge?

No.  A melee charge counts as a direct charge if at the beginning of its charge move any part of the enemy target unit is directly to the charging unit's front.  It begins facing away and therefore doe not count as a direct charge.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fsn on 28 September 2015, 03:37:28 PM
Told you.

:D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: paulr on 28 September 2015, 07:22:21 PM
Welcome to the forum z4 :-h

Whatever happened to z1, z2 & z3 :-\
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fsn on 28 September 2015, 08:41:28 PM
Z1 was sunk in error by He111s in Feb 1940. Z3 was sunk by a mine during the rescue operation. Z2 beached after being damaged in the Narvik fighting.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: z4carlo on 28 September 2015, 08:43:16 PM
Thanks for the response Chieftain, and for the warm welcome from everyone else!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: z4carlo on 29 September 2015, 12:42:31 AM
Another question, possibly less of a direct rule and more of an interpretation.

When does a unit gain the 'uphill' advantage?

The only references I can find are;
pg 14 'a unit can gain an uphill advantage'
and pg 30 '+1d6 if uphill of an opponent'

So this may have been left intentionally vague to allow for different styles of terrain? But if I were using simple single level hills with a definitive edge what are the intended requirements for being 'uphill'?

Which of these cases should I claim to be uphill of my opponent?
1. At the edge of the hill with my opponent not on the hill
2. Fully on the hill with my opponent partially on the hill
3. Partially on the hill with my opponent not on the hill
4. Both partially on the hill, but I have more of my base on the hill
5. Large hill, both fully on, I am more central

That seems to cover all(?) cases I can think of, personally I lean towards 1-4 but not 5 but I can imagine the rules being far stricter and being designed only for 1 or possibly 1+2.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 29 September 2015, 01:26:50 AM
You'll find the rules under the Movement: terrain and the table edge section.

'At the end of a unit's move there may be further effects for the unit being within limiting terrain such as gaining behind defences advantage in woodland.  These effects only apply if more than half of the unit's base is in the terrain.  Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.'

Determining when it applies will be a decision you and your opponent will have to make, based on your terrain.

To answer your questions directly:

Which of these cases should I claim to be uphill of my opponent?
1. At the edge of the hill with my opponent not on the hill

Yes, provided more than half your base is on the hill.

2. Fully on the hill with my opponent partially on the hill

Probably, but it will depend on the relative positions of the two units

3. Partially on the hill with my opponent not on the hill

Yes, provided more than half your base is on the hill.

4. Both partially on the hill, but I have more of my base on the hill

Probably, but it will depend on the relative positions of the two units

5. Large hill, both fully on, I am more central

Probably, but it will depend on the relative positions of the two units

Based on the general principle taken by the rules (e.g. In marginal cases, it's always better to allow a unit to shoot or make melee contact where possible.) i'd suggest you apply the uphill advantage except in cases where it clearly doesn't apply.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 29 September 2015, 08:18:00 AM
Welcome, don't worry - we is all insane on here. And don't touch Nobby's pills.

IanS
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: z4carlo on 29 September 2015, 09:59:02 AM
Quote from: Chieftain on 29 September 2015, 01:26:50 AM
'At the end of a unit's move there may be further effects for the unit being within limiting terrain such as gaining behind defences advantage in woodland.  These effects only apply if more than half of the unit's base is in the terrain.  Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.'

Thanks this is useful. However I feel the last part of this contradicts what you have just given as examples of when it could be applied.

Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.

This indicates that I must be fully on the hill, otherwise the part of my base which is not would not be further up the slope than any part of my opponents base. i.e only cases 1 and 2, but a definite no to 3 and 4. 5 would require a sloped or multi level hill.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 29 September 2015, 12:42:43 PM
Quote from: z4carlo
Thanks this is useful. However I feel the last part of this contradicts what you have just given as examples of when it could be applied.

Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.

This indicates that I must be fully on the hill, otherwise the part of my base which is not would not be further up the slope than any part of my opponents base. i.e only cases 1 and 2, but a definite no to 3 and 4. 5 would require a sloped or multi level hill.

If more than half the base is on a hill it gains counts as in the terrain and gains the uphill bonus against a unit that isn't on the hill.

'At the end of a unit's move there may be further effects for the unit being within limiting terrain such as gaining behind defences advantage in woodland.  These effects only apply if more than half of the unit's base is in the terrain.  Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.'

'Melee modifier: +1d6 if uphill of the opponent'


As I understand it, I think your confusion may be around the wording ' Uphill advantage is only gained if all of a unit's base is further up the slope than any part of an opponent's base.'?

Note it does not say 'all of a unit's base is on the hill', but rather 'further up the slope'. 

So a unit with more than half its base in the terrain (hill) gains the terrain-based advantage, and therefore meets the requirement of all of it being further up the slope and gets the +1d6 uphill bonus (against  unit not on the hill).

Its always a judgement call between the players though.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: z4carlo on 30 September 2015, 01:35:19 AM
Ok that's a lot clearer, I have to say that the previously quoted line is does not explain this concept well at all.
I think it would be a lot clearer if simply stated that if one person has more then half their base on a hill and the opponent does not that they gain an uphill advantage.

But thanks for the clarification.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Nosher on 07 October 2015, 12:16:49 PM
apologies if this has already been asked but a quick search was fruitless.....

Can a warband units dice ever be reduced to zero dice?

For example, a unit of centaur archers generates 1d6 in melee. A fear causing unit reduces the melee dice by -1d6. Do the Centaur Archers roll no dice at all?

Example two: A unit of undead warriors roll 1d6 protection. A powerful attack reduces protection rolls by -1d6. I assume the warriors get 0 protection dice?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 07 October 2015, 12:40:32 PM
That's how we've played it!
Infact, a unit that caused fear and had powerful caused multiple hits on a unit of wolf riders (normally 1d6PO)  near a table edge, meant the riders had a net -2D6 protection dice...|That was a LOT of dice boosts!  :'(
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 07 October 2015, 12:41:21 PM
Quote from: Nosher on 07 October 2015, 12:16:49 PM
apologies if this has already been asked but a quick search was fruitless.....

Can a warband units dice ever be reduced to zero dice?

For example, a unit of centaur archers generates 1d6 in melee. A fear causing unit reduces the melee dice by -1d6. Do the Centaur Archers roll no dice at all?

Example two: A unit of undead warriors roll 1d6 protection. A powerful attack reduces protection rolls by -1d6. I assume the warriors get 0 protection dice?

Hi Nosher,

You'll find you answer under Basics: Dice and modifiers.

'The number of dice rolled for a test may be modified up or down.  Modifiers that increase the number of dice are applied before modifiers that reduce the number.  If dice are reduced to 0d6 or lower by such modifiers the unit does not roll any dice and cannot succeed at that action.  The test automatically fails.'

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Nosher on 07 October 2015, 01:25:51 PM
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JohnG on 12 October 2015, 04:39:38 PM
Quick question on the "behind defenses" rule.
Does the unit get the bonus if the source of the attack is from within the wood/town etc? So if two units are in melee within a wood for example, do they both gain the +1 protection to represent the difficulty of fighting in a wood, or is it cancelled?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 12 October 2015, 05:29:41 PM
Quote from: JohnG on 12 October 2015, 04:39:38 PM
Quick question on the "behind defenses" rule.
Does the unit get the bonus if the source of the attack is from within the wood/town etc? So if two units are in melee within a wood for example, do they both gain the +1 protection to represent the difficulty of fighting in a wood, or is it cancelled?

Hi JohnG,

Welcome!   :-h

They both get the behind defenses bonus.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: JohnG on 12 October 2015, 11:41:22 PM
Excellent! Thanks for clearing that up for me.  :-bd
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: paulr on 13 October 2015, 01:19:20 AM
Welcome JohnG :-h

Apologies for the slow response, service is usually better around here ;) ;D
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Techno on 13 October 2015, 05:59:06 AM
Welcome from me, as well, John.
Cheers - Phil
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: fsn on 13 October 2015, 07:13:49 AM
What Ho, Mr G!

Bienvenue to the forum. Come fro the rules, stay for the figures.

Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 13 October 2015, 07:26:51 AM
hello and welcome
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 27 October 2015, 09:07:45 AM
Direct charge bonus:

In the picture below, Blue moved first. The Ogres and Knights both had a Direct Charge on the Archers-at-Arms unit. The Red Knights then had a Direct Charge against the Blue Knights.

Question:
Do the Blue Knights get the Direct Charge bonus against the Red Knights, as they will have to fight them, as they the unit most immediate to their front? I argued they wouldn't as they charged the Archers, but we ended up allowing it to keep the game following. I can't remember if the Red Knights were in the charge arc of the Blue Knights at the beginning of the turn or not.

(http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/102344518/Charge%20question.png)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 27 October 2015, 09:40:21 AM
Pretty sure it breaks down to a 1 on 1 fight!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Nosher on 27 October 2015, 12:32:55 PM
Agree with mad l. The unit fights the enemy unit most of its front is adjacent to. At least that's what I thought I have read.....
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 27 October 2015, 12:54:11 PM
Hi Kiwidave,

Thanks for the question.  Actually i'm surprised this hasn't been asked before as its something that crops up regularly in my games.

OK, so the ogres/archers are clear.
Red knights vs archers, also clear.

The confusion arises from the blue knights charging the red knights and 'taking them away' from fighting the archers.  This is of course a sound tactic, as those archers were in trouble!   :D

You make the following interesting point, 'I can't remember if the Red Knights were in the charge arc of the Blue Knights at the beginning of the turn or not.'

That doesn't actually matter.

Let's take a look at the wording (my emphasis in bold).

'A melee charge counts as a direct charge if at the beginning of its charge move any part of the enemy target unit is directly to the charging unit's front.'

In your example, the red knights charge the archers (enemy target unit) directly to their front so they fight with the direct charge bonus.

The blue knights charge the red knights (enemy target unit) directly to their front so they fight with the direct charge bonus.

Even though during the melee pair-ups the red knights are now fighting a different unit (blue knights rather than archers) they still get their direct charge bonus.  The target unit's position (in this case the archers) determines this bonus, which then applies irrespective of which unit the chargers end up fighting.

Maybe think of it like this - the red knights went charging in against the archers, their blood up and lances quivering, only to find  the blue knights moving in to meet them, so they redirect to take on the enemy knights instead.  In terms of the rules, its designed so that you get your bonuses, even when the swirling melee changes your target.  It also keeps things neat and simple.  
Unit made a direct charge?  Its gets the bonus.  Simple.   :)

In most cases, I suspect it will be easy to determine whether or not a unit gets the bonus.  Of course you'll have your own ways to amicably resolve disputes but I'd suggest in marginal cases, allowing attacks to occur or bonuses to apply is a good choice.

Hopefully that helps?

Cheers
Chieftain
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Roxxy on 27 October 2015, 01:16:33 PM
Quote from: Chieftain on 27 October 2015, 12:54:11 PM
Hi Kiwidave,

Thanks for the question.  Actually i'm surprised this hasn't been asked before as its something that crops up regularly in my games.

OK, so the ogres/archers are clear.
Red knights vs archers, also clear.

The confusion arises from the blue knights charging the red knights and 'taking them away' from fighting the archers.  This is of course a sound tactic, as those archers were in trouble!   :D

You make the following interesting point, 'I can't remember if the Red Knights were in the charge arc of the Blue Knights at the beginning of the turn or not.'

That doesn't actually matter.

Let's take a look at the wording (my emphasis in bold).

'A melee charge counts as a direct charge if at the beginning of its charge move any part of the enemy target unit is directly to the charging unit's front.'

In your example, the red knights charge the archers (enemy target unit) directly to their front so they fight with the direct charge bonus.

The blue knights charge the red knights (enemy target unit) directly to their front so they fight with the direct charge bonus.

Even though during the melee pair-ups the red knights are now fighting a different unit (blue knights rather than archers) they still get their direct charge bonus.  The target unit's position (in this case the archers) determines this bonus, which then applies irrespective of which unit the chargers end up fighting.

Maybe think of it like this - the red knights went charging in against the archers, their blood up and lances quivering, only to find  the blue knights moving in to meet them, so they redirect to take on the enemy knights instead.  In terms of the rules, its designed so that you get your bonuses, even when the swirling melee changes your target.  It also keeps things neat and simple.  
Unit made a direct charge?  Its gets the bonus.  Simple.   :)

In most cases, I suspect it will be easy to determine whether or not a unit gets the bonus.  Of course you'll have your own ways to amicably resolve disputes but I'd suggest in marginal cases, allowing attacks to occur or bonuses to apply is a good choice.

Hopefully that helps?

Cheers
Chieftain

As I thought Dave It is logical, KISS. Great game last night, com on the alliance ;)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 27 October 2015, 04:23:29 PM
Thanks Chieftain :)

As it turned out, my Red Knights (Dragon Men) saw off the Blue Knights (Taurians), and went on to win the game :)

KD
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 10 November 2015, 01:50:19 PM
Another game - more questions!

1) When a Formed unit is contacted on the flank or rear, when does the turn to face the enemy occur? In the movement phase or the melee phase? We decided during the game that it was just prior to conducting the melee resolution, but weren't sure. If it's in the movement phase, this will give missile units a chance to shoot their attackers.

2) Do Formed units retain Shieldwall if they turn to face an attacker? We decided yes they did, as it isn't a motivated movement.

3) If a Formed unit has opponents to flank and front, and the frontal opponent falls back, can/does the Formed unit turn to face the flanking unit or are they stuck being flanked? We decided that they could.

4) Picture round:
(http://kiwidave.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/102853522/Formed%20options.png)

Which of the above options are correct? Unit A was charged by Unit B. We went with Option B to keep the game moving, but there was some debate as to whether this was correct or not.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 10 November 2015, 04:36:38 PM
Hi Kiwidave,

Some excellent questions sir!   :D

Quote1) When a Formed unit is contacted on the flank or rear, when does the turn to face the enemy occur? In the movement phase or the melee phase? We decided during the game that it was just prior to conducting the melee resolution, but weren't sure. If it's in the movement phase, this will give missile units a chance to shoot their attackers.

The Formed special ability wording is indeed unclear on the sequencing.
Formed units turn to face 'before any melee is resolved'.  They do this in the melee phase after spells but before the melee resolution begins (between 5.2 and 5.3 in the turn sequence).
I'll add this clarification to the errata section.

Quote2) Do Formed units retain Shieldwall if they turn to face an attacker? We decided yes they did, as it isn't a motivated movement.

Yes they keep this as the formed turn is not a motivated move.  This is addressed in the errata for shieldwall.

Quote3) If a Formed unit has opponents to flank and front, and the frontal opponent falls back, can/does the Formed unit turn to face the flanking unit or are they stuck being flanked? We decided that they could.

The formed unit will if it meets the requirements for this free turn next combat round.

The picture round...i'm not sure what you mean with it.  Correct in what way?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 10 November 2015, 04:47:41 PM
What I mean is this:

At the start of the melee phase, Unit B is in the rear of Unit A as a result of a charge move. Can Unit A (being a Formed unit) perform option B (i.e. end up in front edge to front edge contact with Unit B ), or should it be more like option A (just a 180 degree turn), or option C (a 180 degree turn then align to the flank of Unit B ).

Or are all three options equally valid?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 10 November 2015, 10:52:22 PM
Ah, got you.   :)

The formed unit turn to face the rear contact most to full edge and corner contact if able (or otherwise gets as close to that as possible).

If no other units intervene, then option B is the best option.  The intention is for the formed unit to remove the flank advantage, not to move towards creating its own counter advantage.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 11 November 2015, 10:10:46 AM
Righto. As a follow-on to that, are there any movement distance limitations, or can Unit A move as much as necessary to get the full edge-to-edge contact?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 11 November 2015, 12:13:35 PM
It moves the minimum necessary to adjust the contact, and only if possible within the conditions of the Formed 'turn to flank' move.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kiwidave on 11 November 2015, 04:47:53 PM
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: stenicplus on 03 February 2016, 11:00:43 PM
Just another quick one on terrain and hills in particular.

My understanding is that to count as in the terrain you must have over half the base in it.

That would suggest that I could have a front left corner off the hill and on the flat, but count as entirely on the hill as 80% of the stand is on the hill.

If an enemy stand charges said corner of my base, does my base get uphill as it is on the hill (ie more than half on the hill) and therefore all of it is further uphill of the enemy on the flat?

Thanks,

Steve
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 03 February 2016, 11:30:00 PM
Quote from: stenicplus on 03 February 2016, 11:00:43 PM
Just another quick one on terrain and hills in particular.

My understanding is that to count as in the terrain you must have over half the base in it.

That would suggest that I could have a front left corner off the hill and on the flat, but count as entirely on the hill as 80% of the stand is on the hill.

If an enemy stand charges said corner of my base, does my base get uphill as it is on the hill (ie more than half on the hill) and therefore all of it is further uphill of the enemy on the flat?

Thanks,

Steve

Hi Steve.  Yes, the uphill bonus applies for precisely the reasons you state.

Cheers
Chieftain
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Badgertheking on 20 March 2016, 02:40:37 PM
Pursuit moves seem very powerful.

Am I playing this correct.
1st example.
My bison riders force a unit to rout which is destroyed because it leaves table edge or can't end its move. My bison riders can now pursuit move 4bw and charge the closest target?
2nd example
My bison riders force a unit to rout and pursuit them killing catching  them, killing them and contact another unit after completing its 4bw of movement so completing another charge.

My bison riders seemed unstoppable last game haha.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 20 March 2016, 07:39:53 PM
You are correct in both cases.

Remember of course that the pursuit move melee is fought in the following turn, giving the opponent the opportunity to respond.

As for Bison Riders, if you allow them to make a direct charge they can be devastating.  The tactic therefore is to prevent this.   ;)  Their weakness of course is poor Protection.
Its actually relatively easy to stop the pursuit charge too, since if you inflict two hits, the unit has to fall back and therefore cannot pursue...something to consider spending those CPs on, to make sure you get the two hits?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Badgertheking on 21 March 2016, 08:30:32 PM
Thanks boss. Just wanted to make sure before I buy more bison riders for the tournament in Milton Keynes
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 22 March 2016, 12:13:18 AM
Sorry
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kaiser Bill on 27 April 2016, 04:39:40 PM
If a unit is pushed back from taking two hits, and has a friendly unit behind, does it pass through, or does it take a hit?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 27 April 2016, 06:38:17 PM
Quote from: Kaiser Bill on 27 April 2016, 04:39:40 PM
If a unit is pushed back from taking two hits, and has a friendly unit behind, does it pass through, or does it take a hit?

See "Fall back moves", third bullet point on p23.

It is blocked, does not move and takes an additional hit.

The resolute special ability helps with this little problem!  As does careful unit placement.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Kaiser Bill on 27 April 2016, 08:22:11 PM
Thanks. Was blasted by dwarf canon whilst group moving. General right behind the unit taking the fire.  At least I could still charge
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Badgertheking on 04 May 2016, 10:59:04 PM
If you take two hits but can't be moved back and take the extra hit can you then pursuit if the enemy has fell back? Or because you took two hits and should have fell back you can't pursuit ?
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 04 May 2016, 11:10:17 PM
Quote from: Badgertheking on 04 May 2016, 10:59:04 PM
If you take two hits but can't be moved back and take the extra hit can you then pursuit if the enemy has fell back? Or because you took two hits and should have fell back you can't pursuit ?

Hi Badgertheking,

The unit cannot pursue as it has taken two hits and was forced to fall back.  Although its fall back move is blocked (forcing the extra hit), it still counts as having made a fall back move.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: owaincaesarius on 14 December 2016, 08:05:24 AM
Just a quick question after our first game.

A unit taking two hits, can it fall back through friends in contact to its rear?
Ta.
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 14 December 2016, 09:01:29 AM
Ouch, no!
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Chieftain on 14 December 2016, 01:24:30 PM
Quote from: owaincaesarius on 14 December 2016, 08:05:24 AM
Just a quick question after our first game.

A unit taking two hits, can it fall back through friends in contact to its rear?
Ta.

Hi owaincaesarius.

No, friends block a fall back move, as defined under the blocking conditions for fall backs:

Cannot complete a full 1BW move (e.g. it is prevented by friends, enemies, a table edge or impassable terrain)

This also relates to the Interpenetration rules:

During a basic or restricted move, or a rout move, a unit may interpenetrate (pass through) any friendly unit.

Note, the conditions do not include a fall back outcome move.

:)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: owaincaesarius on 14 December 2016, 05:59:50 PM
Cheers. Thzgis how  read it but being used to DBA etc...didn't want to believe it. :)
Title: Re: Rules Q&A
Post by: Lord Speedy of Leighton on 08 March 2019, 12:08:44 AM
Hi,
This one foxed us tonight,
Unit A is on the edge of rough going, takes two hits and falls back. Nice and clear, 1bw, ignore terrain, as the rules state.
Unit B has the option to pursue, does it go normal follow up move, ignoring terrain, or half speed, slowed by the choss.
We went with A.