At the trail

[Westmarcher]

What exactly is meant by carrying muskets 'at the trail?' I understand that this involves carrying muskets low and in the right hand but are the weapons held horizontally or almost vertically or what? If held horizontally, it seems to me there is potential for accidents (with fixed bayonets!) or clattering of other soldiers' muskets unless the gap between ranks is considerably extended.

[Hertsblue]

Normally in the right hand at the balance-point of the weapon, horizontal with the ground.



You can even do it with an AK47

[Westmarcher]

Thanks for the photo, Hertsblue - that's how I understood 'at the trail' to be - and that's why I can't understand it in terms of the AWI (having read that British troops were known to advance at the trail).

The guys in the photo are in ranks two paces apart and there is only a slight gap between the muzzle of one rank's AK 47s and the butt of the AK 47s in the ranks in front so everything appears to be neat and tidy.
However, an AK47 is only 87cm long whilst a Short Land Pattern Brown Bess musket (without bayonet) is 149cm long - a difference of 62cm (approx. 2 feet 2 inches). This suggests to me that AWI era ranks would therefore have to be more than 2 paces apart or the weapons held differently otherwise weapons will clash with all sorts of consequences.

I therefore wonder if the photo depicts a 'parade ground' position but, in the field, the musket would be held in a more loosely angled posture? Further thoughts anyone?

[Maenoferren]

Having run around various battlefields as a Napoleonic light infantryman.... From what I remember...our at trail had the muzzle raised..probably to stop the ball getting jiggled out. We never legged it with bayonets fixed though.

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Bayonets would only be fixed when absolutely needed. They make loading the thing difficult, and are as dangerous to your own side as the enemy. Standing orders for Salisbury Plain are bayonets are not to be fixed.

IanS

[Steeleye]

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the spacing for British infantry in the AWI was doubled because of the rough terrain and the lower troop densities.

But I could be wrong.

[mollinary]

Well, the Prussians did it, with bayonets fixed, in 1866. If you google Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Alf Ober-Priem you should find, under images, a reproduction on Flickr, of a wonderful print showing Prussian infantry attacking at Koniggratz. They carry the rifle with the butt low, and the bayonet high, as you might expect. If you ever get the chance to pick a Dreyse up, it is an unwieldy beast at the best of times.


Mollinary

[cameronian]

Well, the Prussians did it, with bayonets fixed, in 1866. If you google Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Alf Ober-Priem you should find, under images, a reproduction on Flickr, of a wonderful print showing Prussian infantry attacking at Koniggratz. They carry the rifle with the butt low, and the bayonet high, as you might expect. If you ever get the chance to pick a Dreyse up, it is an unwieldy beast at the best of times.


Mollinary

Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Auf Ober-Priem

[Leman]

Good print that, and equally good to know that such figures are available from Pendraken.

[mollinary]

Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Auf Ober-Priem

I think the American vernacular is "whatever"!

Mollinary

[cameronian]

You've taken it the wrong way, I was actually trying to be helpful. As it stood; Google  'Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Alf Ober-Priem ' - like wot you said, and nothing came up, however Google 'Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Auf Ober-Priem' which I think is what you meant, and the print comes up nicely 

[mollinary]

Hi Cam,

Sorry, your first comment did come out rather stark, and seemed somewhat unnecessarily pedantic, although obviously not intended.  I am afraid my original post was yet another example of being unable to get all the stupid errors committed by the auto correct software. Still, glad you liked the print, even if I don't believe it to be the 68th!

Mollinary

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Hugs

[Hertsblue]

You've taken it the wrong way, I was actually trying to be helpful. As it stood; Google  'Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Alf Ober-Priem ' - like wot you said, and nothing came up, however Google 'Angriff des Infanterie Regiment Nr. 68 Auf Ober-Priem' which I think is what you meant, and the print comes up nicely 

For the want of a nail....

[FierceKitty]

Though considering what gets done to English here, German's getting off lightly.