Dux bellorum - First band, some help requested

[jchaos79]

Hi, finally I bought Dux Bellorum. I read it and I like what I read.

Next step is making a force, as I see 32 points is a good starting point, isn't it?

I went for a Sea Raider of the Late period (mainly because I already have the figures for this).
I thought about a little invasion force of fiercy warriors from Jutland. The warband represent the tripulation of a Drakkar.

Aggression +5
Leadership 7                (3)
The leader is Oswulf    (5)
3x Noble warriors        (15)
3x Warriors                 (9)
0x Foot skirmishers     (0)

Total 32, no points for strategies and tactics. I supouse I could grab some while after some games.

Ideas? improvements? comments?


I do not have any idea of the defenders... but I will think about them when I finish my Oswulf and the pirates from Jutland mini poryect.

The last topic is: There is 99% of possibilities I will solo play it.  How do you solo play the rule-engine of leadership points in solo games?   any advice?

[Fenton]

Glad you like the game

It look a little one dimensional, you might find you have problems with an enemy with light troops and cavalry getting round your flanks

[Leman]

Noble warbands are very powerful. I would trim one of the noble warbands and use the extra points for strategies which are very useful.

[Steve J]

Maybe drop the leadership 7 and use some of the points on a few skirmisher stands. As you play the game you will quickly find out what works for you, so I wouldn't worry too much at this stage. Personally I've got most options covered with my warbands, just so that I can vary them depending upon scenario or campaign etc. It does mean I have quite a few bases that rarely get used.

[jchaos79]

Thanks for the comments.

At this time of testing the game I am conditinated by the figures I had. So at the moment do not have javalinmen. I will keep the idea of small elite force of invasors. Maybe I will drop some leadership and adquire some strategies as Dour Puritan says.

the next step is looking for a hook to make a game, and I do not have to much Dark ages figures... little saxos, little normans, some vikings, and lots of arabs,. Because Dux Bellorum does not need to much figures I was confident in making a 32 points army of saxon maybe, but again my army list options will be determined by the figures I have.

Reading the Osprey about vikings I saw that in 844 some vikings from Denmark attacked first Lisbon and then Seville defying Abderraman from the Cordoba Caliphate. I like the idea of some fights in the Peninsula and also I have figures to represent the invasion. But...

1- The date is out of the scope of Dux Bellorum
2- The place is out of the scope of Dux Bellorum
3- I do not have armylist of arab people

Anyway I would like to game it with dux bellorum.

Do you guys have some houserules for arab people or know where I could search more list of Dux Bellorum in the net?

Any comment / imporvement /criticisim of the project?

[Leman]

People have used Dux Bellorum successfully in other periods/eras, eg. there was an article in WSS(?) several months back on a DB game between Romans and Macedonians. If you have access to a DBA/DBM army list book or website you should be able to work out lists for Spanish and Moors. Also, the fewer figures you use the more strategies you can employ, eg. Vikings could use mead whereas Moors definitely would not.

[Fenton]

The 'official' Dux B forum is on boardgame geek, might be something on there

http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/88079/dux-bellorum


You could try asking on TMP as well, although its usually a silly place some people do give good answers and advice

[jchaos79]

I do not like modify ruleset before playing some games, but I will make a first attempt to a fan list for Islam dark ages, in order to have some games of vikings vs Omeyas.

I introduce a camel unit and a new strategy.



Any comment(/criticisim/improvement of people who had played Dux Bellorum is very very welcome,

Warning: This list is not playtested so beware of it!

[Fenton]

Interesting

Would you have to choose the infantry units at the start of the game to get the +1 aggression or can you choose from turn to turn ( maybe the units need to be within a certain BW of the commander to get the bonus)

Personally I have nver been overly sure of the whole camel/ horse thing. If you like the rule then go for it though 6BW seems a bit far as that could be 36cm in distance

[jchaos79]

Design notes:

Islam expansion:
- core of non elite warriors and light horsemen (bow and javalin) in a byzanitne way
- Muslim uses the bow
- When expanding territories (aggresor) could be religous motivated --> mutatawwi
- Including a unit of camels gives flavour to the list
- Incluidng skirmishers is tpical of the armies of the moment.
- Strategies of ambush as muslim are light troops armies
- Startegie of levis as they used other subjucted tribes or local people converted to islam
- stratgie of assesination as the muslim world is famous by their hassasim. Historically they are from X-XII century but is a concesion.

[Luddite]

Aye, Camels = 6BW is excessive.  I'd take it right down to 'in contact'.

Limit the Mutatawwia to Warrior units.

What are Emir's stats?

Perhaps drop the mounted skirmishers to 0-3 units?
Not sure about historical accuracy by 6 of those units will mess up anyone's day.  

It's also worth noting that 'skirmishers' in the DuxB rules are not skirmishers in the historical sense, bur lesser quality troops who fight in looser, peripheral units to support the rock-hard axe-wielding, shield-biting nutters and housecarls.  There was estensive discussion about it with Dan pitching in to clarify things when the rules were first released (if i recall).  Check out his 'merseybooks' blog.

[jchaos79]

Interesting

Would you have to choose the infantry units at the start of the game to get the +1 aggression or can you choose from turn to turn ( maybe the units need to be within a certain BW of the commander to get the bonus)

Personally I have nver been overly sure of the whole camel/ horse thing. If you like the rule then go for it though 6BW seems a bit far as that could be 36cm in distance

I thought they are choose at the start of the game for simplicity if you have the strategy of mutwatalli. The fluff is the troops are a sort of fanatic and works by themself do not need a leader to be motivated, but I do not want to use the rule engine of fanatic that it gives the rules because is more like berserks and islamic zeal is different in my opinion.

About the distance of the camels, yep could be too far away. Maybe halfing distances: radius of smell 3BW and must retreat 2BW if the horses fail bravery. better?
About including a camel, I thought is a only unit to give flavour, only one, should not domain the game or the list.

[jchaos79]

Aye, Camels = 6BW is excessive.  I'd take it right down to 'in contact'.

Limit the Mutatawwia to Warrior units.

What are Emir's stats?

Perhaps drop the mounted skirmishers to 0-3 units?
Not sure about historical accuracy by 6 of those units will mess up anyone's day.  

It's also worth noting that 'skirmishers' in the DuxB rules are not skirmishers in the historical sense, bur lesser quality troops who fight in looser, peripheral units to support the rock-hard axe-wielding, shield-biting nutters and housecarls.  There was estensive discussion about it with Dan pitching in to clarify things when the rules were first released (if i recall).  Check out his 'merseybooks' blog.

Defenitively 6Bw for camel is too much. Downgrade to 3Bw.
Yep limiting mutwatti to warriors could be right.
Emir is just the leader stat
I will keep skirmisher as low quality troops, because muslim armies in their expansion were a mix of people converted to islam and a mix of quality warriors. Thanks for the clarifing of skirmishers anyway.
About limit of troops:

warriors 0-4
archers 0-3
mount sk 0-4

better?

[Luddite]

You'll have to try it out mate, but i'd suggest mounted skirmishers with bow range 4 will tear the Viking footsloggers to pieces.   

[Fenton]

I would agree with Luddite about camels/horses in contact only

Could you maybe try tying the zealot troops with the taking of the Monks special add on or would that make it too complicated?