What happens ?....Scottish Independence.

[FierceKitty]

Having a Scots grandfather, I hope independence might mean I qualify for a real passport at last.

[Leman]

That'll be the Nicaraguan passport then.

[Leman]

This Scottish independence thing is such tosh. The Scots came from Ireland, Wallace was a minor Saxon noble living in Scotland, which was really the land of the Caledonians, Picts and northern Britons; and if it's good enough for the immigrant Scots from Ireland to claim it all, then what about the immigrant Islesmen from  Scandinavia. Maybe we should be looking at an independent Norseland? The silliness of it all is emphasised by statements like "my grandfather came from Scotland." Precisely; it's extremely difficult to find anyone on this island who is pure anything. However, if you have such a loathing for those of us who are of the same island stock but happen to live south of the Tweed then goodbye and good luck and once you've got your so-called independence in these days of the global economy and multinationals you can stop your bloody moaning and cheer up!

[sebigboss79]

This Scottish independence thing is such tosh. The Scots came from Ireland, Wallace was a minor Saxon noble living in Scotland, which was really the land of the Caledonians, Picts and northern Britons; and if it's good enough for the immigrant Scots from Ireland to claim it all, then what about the immigrant Islesmen from  Scandinavia. Maybe we should be looking at an independent Norseland? The silliness of it all is emphasised by statements like "my grandfather came from Scotland." Precisely; it's extremely difficult to find anyone on this island who is pure anything. However, if you have such a loathing for those of us who are of the same island stock but happen to live south of the Tweed then goodbye and good luck and once you've got your so-called independence in these days of the global economy and multinationals you can stop your bloody moaning and cheer up!

The only loathing righ now comes from you actually.

I am German and I am for independence. You are right it is all or nothing and failure/ glory is up to Scotland then.

Concerning global economy I wonder why some "south of the Tweed" are so desparate to alienate the rest of Europ by being pricks?

And to correct another misconception: Most Scots do not give a toss whether you are English, German, Chilean or Scottish. If Scotland wants to be independent then they are as much entitled to it as the Iraquis and Afghanis we bombed to liberty. AFTER a vote pro independence Scotland CAN ask the Queen if she is up to be head of state of yet another country. We will also negotiate for a currency union. Whether it is with the Bank of England, the ECB or the State Bank of Uganda is a secondary issue. Croatia is using the Euro without consent of the ECB, Andorra after more than 10 years finally has consent to do the same.

Whether you or Osborne/Alexander like it, Scotland WILL use the pound, end of story. If Osbourne/Alexander in their wisdom tries to run down the currency to teach Scotland a lesson then go ahead. It is your economy you are screwing.

To make the independence debate a little easier for you, how about the rest of the forum is taking turns telling you what to do and what not in total disregard what you actually want. You may wonder why we should be entitled to do so, well that is easy, we are more than you. If that is OK for you I shall organise the daily torture of your free will, at your expense of course or you may reconsider your position about who should be the master of their own house.

[Ithoriel]

Actually there's a decent chance Wallace was of Welsh descent, but yes we're all mongrels of one sort of another.

Personally I'd rather see a United States of Europe than an independent Scotland but I fail to see why those living in Scotland should have any less right to self-determination than anywhere else and don't currently expect to find myself in a cattle truck heading south after the vote, whichever way it goes.

I don't believe this is about loathing those in the rest of the UK so much as a realisation that we see the world differently from our southern neighbours - hence having twice as many giant pandas in Scotland as Conservative MPs at a time when the Torys are the largest of the minority parties at Westminster.

Have to say the Scots I know are a pretty cheerful bunch, the red-headed calvinist in his kilt and bunnet sharing his one room croft with his highland cow as he ate salted porridge is a stereotype I thought we might have shaken off by now.

Here's tae us!
Wh'a like us?
Gie few!
An' they're a' deid!

Lang may yer lum reek DP!

[GordonY]

News just in..................

Alec reveals his REAL campaign plan

The night before the Election STV and Grampian are continually broadcasting Braveheart

Freeeeeeeddduuummmmm!

[Ithoriel]

... and then we all become Australian?? 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

... and then we all become Australian?? 

Well then at least we proper people could understand what uze is speaking.....


FREEDOM FOR FLINT

IanS 

[Steeleye]

A yes vote in Scotland would mean higher employment in Northern England...

All those jobs as border guards and actually rebuilding the border defenses to keep the unemployed Scots hordes out when their economy goes belly up as the oil runs out.

Please don't suggest rebuilding Hadrian's Wall, if we did we'd be giving some of England to the 'Weasel Scot'.

Seriously, though my heart says, let them have their little independence fantasy. My head says, for better or worse we're probably better together.

Remember Flanders and Swann?

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

Och aye, awa' wi' yon Edinburgh Festival

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

[Fenton]

... and then we all become Australian?? 

Actually Mel Gibson is American

[Ithoriel]

Born in the USA and raised in AUS from the age of ten or twelve or something but no part of his alphabet-soup upbringing is Scots

Will the Better Together campaign be sponsoring "Trainspotting" on other channels, perhaps?

[sebigboss79]

A yes vote in Scotland would mean higher employment in Northern England...

All those jobs as border guards and actually rebuilding the border defenses to keep the unemployed Scots hordes out when their economy goes belly up as the oil runs out.

Please don't suggest rebuilding Hadrian's Wall, if we did we'd be giving some of England to the 'Weasel Scot'.

Seriously, though my heart says, let them have their little independence fantasy. My head says, for better or worse we're probably better together.

Remember Flanders and Swann?

The English, the English, the English are best
I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

The rottenest bits of these islands of ours
We've left in the hands of three unfriendly powers
Examine the Irishman, Welshman or Scot
You'll find he's a stinker, as likely as not.

Och aye, awa' wi' yon Edinburgh Festival

The Scotsman is mean, as we're all well aware
And bony and blotchy and covered with hair
He eats salty porridge, he works all the day
And he hasn't got bishops to show him the way!

I totally endorse the re-building of Hadrians wall and I volunteer for laying a full row to keep the barbarians out. Again as a German I feel compelled to say we DO have very good experience with walls.

Concerning employment and economy (tax per capita) you should check the figures though

[Steeleye]

And crossing the Channel, one cannot say much
Of French and the Spanish, the Danish or Dutch
The Germans are German, the Russians are red,
And the Greeks and Italians eat garlic in bed!

It's not that they're wicked or naturally bad
It's knowing they're foreign that makes them so mad!

[FierceKitty]

I totally endorse the re-building of Hadrian's wall and I volunteer for laying a full row to keep the barbarians out. Again as a German I feel compelled to say we DO have very good experience with walls.

Mmm, but your example does rather point out that a very expensive wall might just be avoided altogether. Some Scots are sober long enough to work that out for themselves too.

[sebigboss79]

Mmm, but your example does rather point out that a very expensive wall might just be avoided altogether. Some Scots are sober long enough to work that out for themselves too.

Not sure what you are implying but.... sober=/=sane.

There are simply no reasons for a Union where one side pays the banker mistakes of the other. The myths of better together have been exposed. The real question therefore is philosophycal (SHOULD Scotland be independent).

You certainly may argue against that but liberty for Iraquis, Afghanis and Southern Sudenese will then question you why Scots rank below these examples. I totally second the notion that independnce should be total. I am sober and sane enough to argue for a Sterling Zone to facilitate trade - although the name of a currency has little to do with its stability. I also argue for taking up our portion of the national debt but ONLY if we also get the same share of assets.

In the end Scotland will be ultimately responsible for its success and failure.

[Hertsblue]

Again as a German I feel compelled to say we DO have very good experience with walls.

That was a good experience? 

[Steve J]

The 'Today' programme on Radio 4 has had quite a few good pieces in its finance slot on the pros and cons of the independence debate. For example North Sea oil revenues will continue to fall sharply due to dwindling reserves, so the revenues will not be as much as many people think.

Another programme, 'More or Less' on Radio 4, looked into the headline arguments by both sides. Well worth a listen if you can still get it on I-Player.

From what I've heard on the above programmes, Scotland would be worse being independent from an economic perspective. However, even if the vote is a 'no', Scotland will get increased devolved powers. I don't think the West Lothian question will be addressed though, which seems strange to me .

[sebigboss79]

That was a good experience? 

At least until we removed it.

[sebigboss79]

The 'Today' programme on Radio 4 has had quite a few good pieces in its finance slot on the pros and cons of the independence debate. For example North Sea oil revenues will continue to fall sharply due to dwindling reserves, so the revenues will not be as much as many people think.

Another programme, 'More or Less' on Radio 4, looked into the headline arguments by both sides. Well worth a listen if you can still get it on I-Player.

From what I've heard on the above programmes, Scotland would be worse being independent from an economic perspective. However, even if the vote is a 'no', Scotland will get increased devolved powers. I don't think the West Lothian question will be addressed though, which seems strange to me .

You mean the same devolution Scotland was promised after the 1979 -No- vote? 

The "white paper" (whoch was actually green) from Westminster on financial questions was done by a Tory sponsored University (cuius regio, eius religio). From the research point it was so badly flawed that my professor would have me fail instantly. I had to stop after 13 pages with a massive academic headache!

The same nonsense suggests oil will immediately stop flowing if Scotland votes Yes and Aliens will invade. I reiterate what I said about sustainable economic policy. As of now England depends with ~25% energy consumption on Scottish renewables. Renewables are being expanded and will more than match the dwindeling oil income. Concerning oil reserve figures there is no consensus on how much and the flaw in your assumption is that declining reserves mean lower income. With worldwide reserves falling, prices will increase. Thus the income effect could also be the opposite.

What we know is that we don't know. As of now the facts are Scotland generates per capita more tax revenue. Besides higher per capita expenditure the government runs a deficit lower than rUK / UKnow which means the other parts run a higher deficit. It stands to reason that the same devolution promises were made 1979. It stands to reason that 1 in 5 Scottish children is classed as poor due to welfare reforms that benefit the rich and hurt the poor.

It further stands to reason that devoMax and more devolution was sought by SNP and rebuffed by the Rt honourable PM. Now why would they offer more devolution in this situation? Realising they are losing the battle? Why would anyone believe it? Because they kept the 1979 promises (almost 20 years later)?

You cannot promise what I can rightfully take.

What you hear on TV and radio strangely only is for one side - not a really unbiased journalism. Facts you can find and read when you are doing your research are being falsified and interpreted in one way only. I stopped listening to "the news" and got myself the figures. I did the maths and asked myself one question: Should I make my own decisions and stand up to them?

My answer on that is clear.

[FierceKitty]

I forgot the Berlin Wall; I was thinking how the Maginot line didn't keep you out of France.