Some questions about ambush

[Fabterp2003]

Hi all,
In yesterday's game we tried the ambush.
We have a couple of questions.

A. As an enemy unit enters into the Initiative range of the ambush is trigged.
 What does it mean "trigged"? The ambushing player has to deploy at least one ambushing unit or he can hold the ambush back in the reserve pool.

B. Once the ambush is triggered, can the ambushing player decide when and where deploy his units and then shot the moving troops?
Unless suppressed, can the ambushed units continue their movement?

C. The ambushing units, once the ambush in complete (deploy, fire, casualty assessed), can shot again as Opportunity fire. Does it mean that the ambushed units has to move or shot to trigger the Opportunity fire or the Opportunity fire just follows the ambush because it is been activated by the movement into the Initiative range?
 
D. Can an ambush be trigged during the Initiative phase?

E. Here is a specific example:
A Close Assault is carried out in the Initiative phase on a friendly unit. One of the assaulting unit enters in the Initiative range of an ambush triggering it. The ambush is deployed and all 3 units are within 10cm from the assaulted friendly unit.
Firstly, can the ambushing units shoot the assaulting unit that trigged the ambush as Response fire?
Secondly, can the ambushing units shoot other units involved in the Close Assault?
Thirdly, can the ambushing units support the friendly unit in the Close Assault?
Fourthly, if the assaulting unit gets closer than 5 cm from the ambushing unit, can it shoot back?

A lot of question, the ambush is an interesting option for the guerrilla army!

Best regards,
Fabio

[Big Insect]

Hi there
Answers below in bold (NB: I am not shouting  )
I hope that makes sense?
Cheers
Mark

Hi all,
In yesterday's game we tried the ambush.
We have a couple of questions.

A. As an enemy unit enters into the Initiative range of the ambush is trigged.
 What does it mean "trigged"? The ambushing player has to deploy at least one ambushing unit or he can hold the ambush back in the reserve pool.

- Triggered mean that the Ambush is effectively activated - becomes live or seen - when an enemy unit moves within the ambushers Initiative distance. So the units (up to 3 max) in the Ambush must then be deployed. They cannot be deployed closer than 5cm to any enemy units, but they must all be put on table within the ambush template.

B. Once the ambush is triggered, can the ambushing player decide when and where deploy his units and then shot the moving troops?

There are 3 questions there.
1). The ambushing player can deploy his units anywhere within the ambush template, but not closer than 5cm to any enemy units. But they can be deployed at a minimim of 5cm.

2). There is no choice about when they are deployed, it is immediately the Ambush is triggered.

3). Shooting follows the sequence outlined in the Ambush section. It is different from normal Response Fire & Opportunity Fire. I wont outline the sequences in full, as it is covered in detail in the main rules book.

Unless suppressed, can the ambushed units continue their movement?

No - as they are not moving - they are deployed and stationary as they have been 'discovered' by the attacking units.

C. The ambushing units, once the ambush in complete (deploy, fire, casualty assessed), can shot again as Opportunity fire. Does it mean that the ambushed units has to move or shot to trigger the Opportunity fire or the Opportunity fire just follows the ambush because it is been activated by the movement into the Initiative range?

Yes, Opportunity Fire must be caused by the target unit either moving or shooting. The attacking player is not a threat otherwise.
 
D. Can an ambush be trigged during the Initiative phase?

Absolutely - but it is still played out as described in the Ambush section.

E. Here is a specific example:
A Close Assault is carried out in the Initiative phase on a friendly unit. One of the assaulting unit enters in the Initiative range of an ambush triggering it. The ambush is deployed and all 3 units are within 10cm from the assaulted friendly unit.
Firstly, can the ambushing units shoot the assaulting unit that trigged the ambush as Response fire?
Yes, as you use the Ambush shooting mechanism not the Initiative method

Secondly, can the ambushing units shoot other units involved in the Close Assault?
No, they  only shoot at the unit (or units) that have triggered the Ambush

Thirdly, can the ambushing units support the friendly unit in the Close Assault?
Yes, if they can comply with all the Close Assault Support criteria e.g. distance, LoS etc.

Fourthly, if the assaulting unit gets closer than 5 cm from the ambushing unit, can it shoot back?
I am not sure I understand your question? The Assaulting unit is assaulting a unit that was not in Ambush originally. If the ambush is triggered, the ambushing units must be deployed no closer than 5cm away from the assaulting unit. If you place an ambushing unit between the assaulting unit and the original unit that it was assaulting (which is potentially possible) the attacker (assaulting unit) has to option to either continue the assault, but do so against the ambushing unit or to stop the assault and it can stop anywhere up to 5cm away from the ambushing unit. This stops 'gamey play' like luring an attacker into assaulting a solitary infantry unit and the ambusher than placed 3 MBTs in the assaulting units way 

A lot of question, the ambush is an interesting option for the guerrilla army!

Not a problem - hope that makes sense 

Best regards,
Fabio

[Fabterp2003]

Hi Mark,
thanks again for your clear answers.

I have some more questions. Sorry!!!

A.  My major concern about present ambush rule is that it seems the ambush can engage one enemy unit only, the one that has trigged the ambush. It looks like, I cannot draw in the ambush more units than the one that has trigged the ambush, because once the ambush is triggered I must deploy my ambushing units straight away. I cannot wait a bit to have a better shot. Am I right?

B. If I deploy in ambush a unit with the ability "slow firing", can it shoot as Opportunity fire after it has shot in the ambush? Could it support during a Close Assault if it has shot in ambush as Response fire?

C. If I deploy in ambush a unit with the ability "slow moving", can it shoot in ambush? Is the deployment of a ambush a move? Can this unit shoot as Opportunity fire after it has shot during the ambush?


Best regards,
Fabio

[Big Insect]

My replies below Fabio
Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark,
thanks again for your clear answers.

I have some more questions. Sorry!!!

Question A.  My major concern about present ambush rule is that it seems the ambush can engage one enemy unit only, the one that has trigged the ambush. It looks like, I cannot draw in the ambush more units than the one that has trigged the ambush, because once the ambush is triggered I must deploy my ambushing units straight away. I cannot wait a bit to have a better shot. Am I right?

Yes - you must deploy your ambushing units immediately - but it's not really a big issue.

The way to look at the Ambush rules in CWC II (& BKCIV & FWCII - which all work fundamentally the same) is as follows:

The Ambush template represents an area that is controlled by the ambushing forces (units) - the fact that you can position them anywhere within the template, as long as you are within the terrain (other than under 5cm from any enemy units) is designed to replicate the idea that as the enemy units move towards the ambush, the units hidden inside it can reposition themselves within it to best advantage to attack the advancing enemy.

There are only 2 ways an Ambush can be revealed:

1). The Ambushing player can activate the ambush (as a Commanded order in their own turn or as an Initiative action), requiring the units within it to either move or shoot or undertake any other Initiative action available to their troop type - such as engineering work, for example.

2). The ambush is triggered by enemy movement, which falls into one of 3 types:

2a). A Commanded move

2b). An Initiative move

2c). by an enemy Consolidation move after a successful Close Assault (less commonly)

With 2a). the enemy unit is Commanded to move - this triggers the Ambush - the ambushers shoot 1st at the unit triggering the Ambush.
Even though the enemy unit has been ordered to Move, in this special circumstance it can shoot back. But, no other enemy units can shoot at the Ambushers, as they cannot have been ordered to shoot, as the ambushers were previously invisible (NB: there is no such thing as an order to "shoot if an enemy becomes visible" - or 'over-watch' as it is sometimes called). So, once the Ambushers have shot, as their Ambush action, they will then get an Opportunity Fire option, as the other enemy units within the Command group start to move; & also in the following turn (if the enemy player is successful in passing an order to either move or shoot), if they have not previously used their Opportunity fire. 
Yes, that means that the enemy may shoot at the Ambushers, in the next commanded turn (if they pass a successful Command order) and do so before the Ambushers can use their Opportunity Fire to shoot back, but this just represents the forces accompanying the unit that triggered the ambush reacting to that unit being attacked. But that is all dependent upon the enemy passing a successful Command roll.

Example A):

4 West German Infantry units are Commanded to advance into a wood to their front, they start off 10cm away from the wood edge. There are 3 Soviet Infantry (conscripts) in Ambush within the wood.
The 1st German infantry unit advances - the Ambush is declared and they must stop 5cm away from the 3 Ambushing Soviet Infantry, which are positioned on the inside edge of the wood. They cannot be positioned outside the wood and cannot be any closer than 5cm to the West German Infantry, in the open. As part of the Ambush sequence the Soviets now fire upon the single German infantry that triggered the Ambush. They each have a shooting factor of 3/30 - but as they are shooting at a target under half range they each get +1 additional dice. The Germans are hit by 12 dice worth of shooting, hitting on a 4+. For our purposes this particular German unit is now either suppressed or KO'd. The 3 remaining West German Infantry units have all been ordered to move, so must move at least a minimum distance. They cannot shoot at the Ambushers as they have not been ordered to shoot. Units can only shoot at enemy units (either as an Initiative action - in the Initiative phase - or as a Commanded action and they they can only shoot units they can see).
The 3 German infantry could advance to within 5cm of the Soviet Ambushers, but - they cannot shoot at the ambushers, as they were ordered to Move not shoot. However, they must move a minimum (it can be just the smallest amount) and that will potentially trigger Opportunity Fire (at the Soviet players discretion) from the 3 Soviet Conscripts in the wood. To shoot back at the Soviets, the Germans must be Commanded to do so, in their next order phase. Or they could be Commanded to assault the Soviet Conscripts (probably not a great idea, as the Soviets are unsuppressed and in cover!).

Example B ):
a single West German Marder (IFV) with a passenger contingent of an Infantry unit is within movement distance of a Soviet HMG unit, that is positioned on the inside edge of a wood. The Marder is operating under Commanded orders and whilst it is within assault distance of the HMG, it wants to move forwards, soften up the HMG with its auto-cannon and then dismount its passengers to assault the HMG within the terrain using the infantry. As the Marder is not Stabilized, it must be Commanded to move towards the HMG, dismount its passengers and then fire at the HMG in the next Command turn in support of the assaulting infantry passengers. The Soviet HMG can shoot at the Marder but as it is a * weapon it can only cause Suppression not Hits, and it only hits on a 6.  In this instance it fires and fails to Suppress the Marder.
However, as the Marder approaches the wood, this triggers a previously hidden Soviet Ambush within the wood. This Ambush consists of 3 Soviet Conscript infantry. However, they are not armed with any IATWs.
The Soviet player has the option to deploy the Conscripts to within 5cm of the Marder and shoot at it, when the Ambush is triggered. But as their small arms will only cause suppression on the Marder, the Soviet player may choose to deploy the 3 Conscripts deep inside the wood out of harms way. As long as the Conscript Infantry are deployed within the terrain and are deployed no closer than 5cm to any enemy, they can be deployed anywhere with the Ambush template (this reflects the flexibility available to units in Ambush).

With 2b). the Marder IFV unit is close enough to make an Assault Move against the Soviet HMG deployed inside the wood during the Initiative phase. The West German player declares that he is assaulting the HMG and moves to within 5cm of the HMG, and dismounts the passengers in front of the IFV (as it is a 'Mechanised' unit). But at 5cm the Marder triggers the ambush within the wood, and the 3 Soviet Conscript infantry appear out of ambush. The Soviet player has a choice - he can deploy the Ambushing units within support range of the HMG, with an option to support the HMG when it is assaulted, but can also fire (as his Ambush shooting) at the Marder, to attempt to suppress it ahead of the assault. The HMG can also shoot at the Marder but must do so as part of the Close Assault sequence - not the Ambush shooting. The German player has the choice at this point, to continue the assault on the HMG, with just the Marder (into the wood - not a great idea) or dismount the infantry passengers to make the assault. As it is the Marder that triggered the Ambush, it, not the passengers, are the target of any shooting from the 3 Ambushing Soviet Conscripts, but the HMG has the choice to shoot at either the Marder or the dismounted German Infantry. The 3 Soviet Conscripts can then support the HMG in any assault as normal.

With 2c). in this instance the Soviet HMG is positioned under 5cm outside the wood. It is assaulted by the Marder IFV and its dismounted passenger infantry. The HMG shoots at the Marder, as it moves into Close Assault, but fails to suppress it. The German infantry dismount, and assault the HMG with the support of the Marder. In the subsequent Close Assault the Soviet HMG is Knocked Out. The German units now have the option to Consolidate and move forward to occupy the position of the knocked-out HMG. They choose to do so, and as a result they trigger the Ambush in the wood. As the infantry was the primary combatant in the melee with the HMG, it moves 1st and triggers the Ambush. The Soviet player can now deploy his 3 Conscript infantry on the edge of the wood but they must be 5cm away from both the Marder & the victorious German infantry. They will shoot at the German infantry with 12 dice, as a result of the Ambush being triggered. As the Marder & infantry have assaulted, they cannot be ordered again, so can make no move towards the ambushing Soviets this game turn (even if the German infantry survives the shooting from the Ambush!).

Hopefully all that helps to outline how the Ambush rules work and why they are actually a fairly accurate and sophisticated method of portraying what is a hugely complex situation.


Question B. If I deploy in ambush a unit with the ability "slow firing", can it shoot as Opportunity fire after it has shot in the ambush? Could it support during a Close Assault if it has shot in ambush as Response fire?

'Slow Firing' represents a number of things - mainly the difficulty or extended time it takes a unit in reloading - some weapons are just too complex to load and fire quickly - e.g. US multi-barreled Recoilless Rifles (such as the M50 120mm RCLR Ontos for example). For others it might represent a crewman having to move externally onto an armoured vehicle to reload a rail-mounted weapon. And for others it represents a limited amount of a certain type of ammo, and as units in CWC do not run out of ammo, slow-firing is a mechanism to represent these units being cautious about how often they fire that weapon (& in very rare instances you can even get 'single-shot' weapons and again slow-firing can represent this).
In an Ambush situation the Slow Firing units has been prepared to fire in advance, so it can shoot in the Ambush phase. However, the restriction of it being 'Slow Firing' still applies - as all the slow-firing issues still remain. So it cannot fire again as Opportunity Fire. However, as the Ambush firing occurs in the opposing players movement turn, the slow firing unit, can fire in its own next turn as normal (in fact as it has not fired as Opportunity Fire it suffers no penalties).

Question C. If I deploy in ambush a unit with the ability "slow moving", can it shoot in ambush? Is the deployment of a ambush a move? Can this unit shoot as Opportunity fire after it has shot during the ambush?

Deployment in Ambush is not a move, unless you have ordered the units in Ambush to come out of Ambush as a Commanded action (& made a successful order) or the units in Ambush have used an Initiative action - such as shooting, moving or declaring an assault that means the ambush is revealed.
Also - slow moving units have no prohibition about firing multiple times in a turn. They would need to be designated as both slow movement and slow firing for that to have any effect.

It is worth saying that units in an Ambush that is revealed by an enemy movement cannot make a normal move anyway - they are 'discovered' by the enemy moving. So there is no issue for 'slow-moving' units as they can only make a move in their game turn. Then they can only make a single move that game turn (either an Initiative move or assault action or a Commanded Movement move or assault). Slow movement usually represents units with poor weight to power rations (e.g. heavy tanks with poor engine capabilities) or special units such as mules etc. So nothing about them being in Ambush really negates this inferiority or movement restriction.


Best regards,
Fabio

Hopefully all that helps?
Ambushes are a complex mechanism but they are not designed to be 'super' mechanisms - there are risks associated with them. But for Guerilla Tactic battlegroups - like partisan's etc. they can usually buy more Ambushes than other battlegroups, and also have access to other specialist mechanisms such as HQs with the 'Fieldcraft' special ability &/or the 'Hide' mechanisms (for example).

Cheers
Mark

[Fabterp2003]

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the long answer.
It clears a lot. The ambush is very intriguing and difficult to master.
I have two more questions.

An ambush can be ordered to deploy. I think, the commanding HQ has to use the Command modifier relative to the distance between the HQ and the centre of the ambush template. Is it fine?

What about a HQ with the ability Fieldcraft. If a fieldcraft ambush is triggered, firstly you deploy the HQ and the 3 ambushing units, carry out the ambush as we have previously discussed. Then, the HQ can order to deploy 3 additional units from the reserve. These units once deployed, can shoot only if ordered (that will be a second order) or they can use only the Opportunity fire?

Best regards,
Fabio

[Big Insect]

Hi Fabio
Answers below in-line in bold
Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark,
Thanks for the long answer.
It clears a lot. The ambush is very intriguing and difficult to master.
I have two more questions.

An ambush can be ordered to deploy. I think, the commanding HQ has to use the Command modifier relative to the distance between the HQ and the centre of the ambush template. Is it fine?
> Yes - you are correct. It is the centre of the template, as you can/could deploy the units anywhere within the template, and in the terrain.

What about a HQ with the ability Fieldcraft. If a fieldcraft ambush is triggered, firstly you deploy the HQ and the 3 ambushing units, carry out the ambush as we have previously discussed. Then, the HQ can order to deploy 3 additional units from the reserve. These units once deployed, can shoot only if ordered (that will be a second order) or they can use only the Opportunity fire?

This is more complex - as the HQ can only issue an order in its own game turn.
So, there can be no Opportunity Fire for the 3 additional units deploying from Reserve, as they can only deploy in their turn (think of them as reserves arriving to support the existing ambush*).
So the sequence of play is:
a). the Ambush is triggered in the Opponents turn. Or it is revealed as an Order in your own Game Turn.
b). when it is your Game Turn, the HQ (upon successfully passing a command roll) deploys the 3 additional units out of Reserve into the Ambush. They cannot deploy & fire this turn, even if they are Stabilized. All they can do is deploy.
c). the HQ can then issue an order for them to fire or move etc. as normal.

* I sometimes like to think of ambushes in relation to the Củ Chi tunnels, during the Vietnam War. The Viet Cong would use them to move around unseen, pop up and ambush, move troops around to support other units and then just disappear. A similar network of tunnels was used in Stalingrad in WW2 or by the Chechen's in Grozny in 1999-2000.

Best regards,
Fabio

[Fabterp2003]

Thanks Mark.
All the pieces are coming together.
Fabio