Cold War Commander rules

[Leon]

Now if only we had a mutual friend who lived in somewhere like Staffordshire, who had his own wargame venue, a ready supply of units, some excellent terrain and was a CWC gamer...

That's also a very good option...!

[TimBuktu]

A couple more questions
(I promise no more this week)

Arc of fire restrictions:
Most units have an arc of fire of 180 degrees. Does this account for turreted vehicles? Or did I once again misread something? It seems to me a turret would give you some kind of fire advantage.

Barrage fire:
Are my maths right? It seems that no matter how many guns you have firing, you can only get one unit hitting per zone of 20 cm.
A Naval barrage of 5 guns will hit a 100 cm area with an effect of 6 attacks per 20 cm. If I fire 10 guns I will hit a 200 cm wide area again with 6 attacks per 20 cm.
I am not understanding this.

[Big Insect]

A couple more questions
(I promise no more this week)

Arc of fire restrictions:
Most units have an arc of fire of 180 degrees. Does this account for turreted vehicles? Or did I once again misread something? It seems to me a turret would give you some kind of fire advantage.

Barrage fire:
Are my maths right? It seems that no matter how many guns you have firing, you can only get one unit hitting per zone of 20 cm.
A Naval barrage of 5 guns will hit a 100 cm area with an effect of 6 attacks per 20 cm. If I fire 10 guns I will hit a 200 cm wide area again with 6 attacks per 20 cm.
I am not understanding this.

Arcs of Fire are not only dependant upon vehicles having turrets.
They can also represent:
a). Reduced or limited crew numbers (often the case in Warsaw Pact, PLA, Soviet designed AFVs)
b). Restricted visibility
c). Doctrine

Also - 1 model/vehicle is a squadron not a single AFV, so arcs of fire also reflect tactical flexibility.

It can work in both directions. As some SPGs or similar have wider arcs to better reflect technological advancements.

Regarding Barrages
I am away from my rules set so will reply more fully later. But in essense a barrage is the same guns firing over a wider area, therefore with less effectiveness.

Cheers
Mark

[TimBuktu]

Cool
Thanks

[TimBuktu]

Another question (It's a new week)
On taking actions:
As I understand it, units within a formation can take different actions on one command or during an initiative phase.
Is there any order to when these actions are taken such as move all moving troops first then do all shooting?

My thought is about assaults. Can I fire on an enemy in hopes of suppressing them and THEN make my assault? It seems like a logical thing to do but I want to be sure.

Tanks

[fred.]

Yes

There is no set order to how you execute commands. With Initiative actions you are choosing which unit to activate on Initiative sequentially, sequence down to you, but it is possible that after some actions a unit is not longer eligible to activate by initiative (as enemy is no longer there or near enough)

[Big Insect]

Fred is correct.
The only proviso is that all Initiative actions must be completed before you move onto Commanded Orders. That applies across the whole Battlegroup.

You can shoot b4 an assault, but that is 2 actions (shoot & then assault). Initiative actions are restricted (generally) to 1 action: move or shoot or assault. Commanded actions can be more flexible, but watch out for Rigid Tac.doc formation restrictions.
Cheers
Mark

[Big Insect]

So, if you choose to shoot & assault as a Commanded Order, your opponant has the ability to use Opportunity Fire at you (if they are not Suppressed), after you have shot, but b4 you assault.
So there are risks & benefits to both approaches.

[TimBuktu]

Excellent
Thanks guys.
A bayonet charge into machine gun fire always seemed like poor tactics to me.
It seemed better for my side to use our machine guns first.

[TimBuktu]

I have a question about terrain.
Dense terrain
"Moving through dense terrain is problematic as the terrain slows down troops and makes it difficult for them to maintain contact" (page 11)
I cannot find any movement restrictions and the only difficulty in making contact that I can find is the -1 for a command roll.

Am I missing something?
(Wouldn't be the first time.)

Also
Because I'm using jungles,
can mortars fire out of jungles or would the tree cover block this?

Thanks

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

No - the restriction is that you have to stop at entry and exit edges  of the terrain. So troop of tanks arrives at the edge of a wood. They have to make a command roll to enter, and a further roll on arriving at far edge.

[Big Insect]

I have a question about terrain.
Dense terrain
"Moving through dense terrain is problematic as the terrain slows down troops and makes it difficult for them to maintain contact" (page 11)
I cannot find any movement restrictions and the only difficulty in making contact that I can find is the -1 for a command roll.

Am I missing something?
(Wouldn't be the first time.)

Also
Because I'm using jungles,
can mortars fire out of jungles or would the tree cover block this?

Thanks

Jungle also counts as High Area Terrain (as well as being Dense)* - so if you are on the edge you can shoot out, but inside (more than 5cm from the edge - if memory serves me correctly - you cannot shoot out - regardless of what the weapon is).

The way Terrain works is that (generally) it doesn't reduce speed but places restrictions on movement.
So, in some cases you must stop before entering or crossing a terrain feature.
In others you can move into and through a terrain piece but must stop inside its far edge.
In others you move up to the terrain, stop, enter it and then need to make a move to the far side, where you stop again, on the inside edge before being able to make a full move out of the terrain (like Dense Terrain).  This slows you down as each step requires a successful Command orders to achieve.

If you are playing with large areas of dense terrain, such as BUAs or Jungle or dense snow fields, for example, it is often easier to mark the open spaces (rather than the terrain). If you really want a complex game cover your table in lots of small chunks or a close patchwork of jungle/BUA and paths and clearings, and I'll see you in a week for a result 

* Terrain is very complex to depict - a linear obstacle can be something like a chain-link fence - which is big trouble for infantry but a mere inconvenience for an MBT, but it doesn't impede visibility or LoF. But replace that chain-link fence with a 12 feet high 4 feet thick double thickness concrete & breezeblock steel post reinforced wall and your visibility is seriously impaired and even your MBT will be cautious about crossing it.
Turn it into a 16ft wide & 10ft deep vertical sided dry ditch and your problems are very different - no impediment to LoS or LOF (like the chain-link fence) but a horror to cross for both the Infantry and MBT alike.
But all 3 are 'linear obstacles' 

Cheers
Mark

[TimBuktu]

I've pretty much come to the conclusion that there is no "universal" terrain and that each game needs to have its own definitions.
In the meantime, I'll see how my first ever official game goes.

[TimBuktu]

Quote:
"Jungle also counts as High Area Terrain (as well as being Dense)* - so if you are on the edge you can shoot out, but inside (more than 5cm from the edge - if memory serves me correctly - you cannot shoot out - regardless of what the weapon is).

The way Terrain works is that (generally) it doesn't reduce speed but places restrictions on movement."

So, as I understand it there is no difference between Dense Terrain and any other terrain.

[Big Insect]

DENSE TERRAIN:

Dense terrain counts like other forms of Area Terrain, but as the majority of Dense Terrain is also High Area Terrain (e.g. Jungle, Woodland, BUAs) you apply which ever is the most restrictive penalty to movement, command and fire.

Page 23: ordering a unit (or units) that starts or finishes a move in Dense Terrain inflicts a -1 to the CV of the Command Unit ordering the Unit.
Page 10-11: provides a general description of Dense Terrain types - including some High Area Terrain and some BUAs.

Dense Terrain follows the standard 'Area Terrain' movement process, as for High Area Terrain (Page. 10) e.g.: a unit stops when making contact with the boundary of a Dense Terrain feature (regardless of how much of its normal movement it has left). It needs a new successful order to cross the terrain boundary and then move up to its full distance, within that terrain piece, stopping on the inside edge of the terrain boundary, when it reaches it. It then needs a further successful order to cross the terrain boundary to exit the terrain, after which it can proceed up to its full move distance in the Open.
This, in combination with the -1 to the Command units CV, is the method by which Dense Terrain slows down movement.

Page. 13 (table) indicates which types of terrain are classified as Dense (& also High Area).

As stated previously visibility (LoS) is limited within and into Dense Terrain (as Dense Terrain behaves the same way that High Area Terrain does for visibility) to 5cms (Page.14)
This also therefore limits shooting (LoF) as you can only direct-fire on units you can see.

However, Recce units using a 'Communicate' action (Page 31-32) can identify and locate an enemy unit within Dense or High Area terrain, as they are not restricted by it for visibility purposes. They can pass this location onto an on-table HQ (to bring down on-table LOF weapons such as mortars and artillery) or to an FAC or FAO (to attempt to bring down off-table artillery or airstrikes on the target unit).

Cheers
Mark

[TimBuktu]

Cool
Thanks

I'm starting my first Vietnam game and confusion ensues.

[Big Insect]

Cool
Thanks

I'm starting my first Vietnam game and confusion ensues.

I'm sure you'll get the hang of things, soon enough. Practice makes perfect