Dragon Rampant Starter Packs now available!

[Raider4]

1. Lion Rampant (Dark Age / Medieval).
2. Dragon Rampant (Fantasy).
3. Pikeman's Lament (Pike and Shot(te)).
4. Rebels and Patrots (Horse and Musket - nominally in the Americas)
5. The Men Who Would be Kings (Colonial).
6. Xenos Rampant (Broad Sci-Fi).

Thank for that. I have "Lion Rampant" (1st edition) and "The Men Who Would Be Kings" (and Daniel Mersey's "Dux Bellorum", but that's completely unrelated).

Osprey have done well out of me, as I also have "Frostgrave" and "Zona Alfa", although strangely I can find neither of these rulebooks at the moment.

[Raider4]

Infantry and cavalry are 2 bases per unit, command/magic are a single base.  The Starter sets have 6 inf/cav units (12 bases) plus a command and magic user unit (2 units). 

So . . . 12 infantry figures per 50mm² base? Little sparse isn't it? Good for irregular troops, skirmishers and warbands and whatnot. Not so good for formed-up regular troops.

[fred.]

These are the bigger 12mm fantasy figures - so probably fill the base nicely. It's the same size density as the Warband packs - so you can see what they look like on the photos on the website 

[steve_holmes_11]

For comparison, I base 10mm Renaissance troops on 40mm square for the Irregular Wars rules.

I get 12 Pikemen on a base, and they look densely packed.
Looser order troops like Rodeleros (Sword and Buckler), Tribal warriors, massed archers usually have 8-10 figures per base.
Skirmishing style foot are typically 5 or 6 per base.

I'll generalise terribly and say that fantasy armies tend toward a looser formation than Pikemen.
This may owe a lot to Hollywood swashbuckling, swords and sandals.

12 foot gives you 3 ranks of four (almost square) or two ranks of six (A nod to linear).
It'll probably look "fantasy authentic".

[Raider4]

Aye, okay. Suppose I'm used to putting 10 figs on a 40x20 Warmaster style base. 

[Leon]

They're not tightly packed but I think they look fairly 'formed' rather than spaced out.

[fred.]

Aye, okay. Suppose I'm used to putting 10 figs on a 40x20 Warmaster style base.

That is going well - 8 is what I typically manage, only getting to 10 for ones that are quite narrow on their bases. 

Yeah the fantasy figures tend to have quite wide heroic poses - getting 4 on a warmaster base is generally going quite well!

[Orcs]

THe obvious answer is to buy more troops to get the density level you are happy with.

I am sure Leon will not object.

[Last Hussar]

See, now tempted (more tempted).

Leon, what was the 'basing assumption'?  Assuming DR is a fantasy LR, so units of 12 28mm figures, are you going for "x models on a y shape base" = 1 figure in the rules?

I've toyed with this for Sharpe Practice; the rules state 1 figure is about 5 men, so thinking of putting 4-5 10mm on a base, to equal '1'.

[Raider4]

That is going well - 8 is what I typically manage, only getting to 10 for ones that are quite narrow on their bases.

Going from memory, figures from the Imperial Roman, Normans and Elizabethan ranges all fitted quite comfortably. Later Romans I had to go to 8 or 7 figures per base.

I do have some of the fantasy Goblins & Lizardmen ranges - I think I'd be lucky to get 3 wide on a 40mm frontage with some of these, so yes I can see they'd work better on the 50mm² ones being offered.

[Raider4]

Leon, what was the 'basing assumption'?  Assuming DR is a fantasy LR, so units of 12 28mm figures, are you going for "x models on a y shape base" = 1 figure in the rules?

Well, I think it's a 2-for-1 kind of thing. 24 infantry figures on two bases makes a unit. Units are usually 12 strong in LR/DR.

Thinks - If you use 50x25 bases, with six figures on each, then you'd double the number of units you have, and stick to the "12 figs = 1 unit" convention. Hmmm . . .

[steve_holmes_11]

Going from memory, figures from the Imperial Roman, Normans and Elizabethan ranges all fitted quite comfortably. Later Romans I had to go to 8 or 7 figures per base.

I do have some of the fantasy Goblins & Lizardmen ranges - I think I'd be lucky to get 3 wide on a 40mm frontage with some of these, so yes I can see they'd work better on the 50mm² ones being offered.

Big shields have always been a problem when squeezing figures into realistic frontages.


I recall Phil Barker's foreword to WRG 6tth.
He grumbled about the new bigger 25mms no longer fitting a "proper" size base.

There was certainly a degree of scale creep about.
Minor compared to the bloat that caused 25mm to rebrand as 28mm (actualy closer to 32mm).

I always felt the problem lay with the more animated poses from a new school of sculptors.
A first generation of figures in static "alert or at ease poses" were being replaced by troops striding, lunging, stabbing and throwing.
Those with middling or large shields didn't sit neatly in ranks, so overlapped the bases.


Tune in next week for another trip down lead-addled memory lane.

[Raider4]

Well, I think it's a 2-for-1 kind of thing. 24 infantry figures on two bases makes a unit. Units are usually 12 strong in LR/DR.

Ignore all the above - it's total bollocks. I've over-thought things snd confused myself.


12 infantry figures on one 50x50 base = 1 Lion Rampant unit.

Therefore you get 2 LR units out of 1 standard Warband pack of 25 figs.

I think.

[Last Hussar]

A member of this fine institute speak bollocks

I refuse believe it!

[steve_holmes_11]

Ignore all the above - it's total bollocks. I've over-thought things snd confused myself.


12 infantry figures on one 50x50 base = 1 Lion Rampant unit.

Therefore you get 2 LR units out of 1 standard Warband pack of 25 figs.

I think.

As you were soldier!


I refer you to Leon's post (5th in this thread).

Infantry and cavalry are 2 bases per unit, command/magic are a single base.

[fred.]

See, now tempted (more tempted).

Leon, what was the 'basing assumption'?  Assuming DR is a fantasy LR, so units of 12 28mm figures, are you going for "x models on a y shape base" = 1 figure in the rules?

I've toyed with this for Sharpe Practice; the rules state 1 figure is about 5 men, so thinking of putting 4-5 10mm on a base, to equal '1'.

Whilst DR is similar to LR - it does move away from 12x 28mm figures is a unit. The 12 figures becomes 12 strength points. And those 12 SP could easily be 12 figures, but they could be 1 big monster, or 4 medium sized monsters. 

Whilst wounds in DR (and LR) count of in 1s, combat power is only impacted at half strength. 

All together this gives a lot of flexibility in how you represent on the table, especially with smaller scale figures. 

With these packs Leon (with Dan M's input) has gone for two big (50mm squared) bases per unit, each with a number of figures on (typically 12 for infantry, but really it doesn't matter from a rules perspective).

If you wanted to go with 12x 25mm bases each with several 10mm figures on, that would work, and give the look of a big unit. 

I played DR with units made of 6x Warmaster 40x20mm bases, worked fine, each base had 2 hits. 

Really its about what you think works, and what you think your opponent will be using - but I think the chances of a random game with a stranger of 10mm DR in a game store feels pretty unlikely - so you can probably work out with your local gaming group what basing to use. And from what I recall DR is pretty flexible around basing. Units fight units, not bases fight bases, so roughly the same footprint for each side is what you want to aim for. 

[Genom]

I did something very similar for Pikemans Lament, 2 bases per unit (40x30 in my case) one of which has a dice frame for tracking casualties. The picture below is the first force I finished (if it works) and a note that in this version, the commander is attached to a unit so I just have a separate command stand. Once a unit has hit half strength, I just remove the base without a dice frame.



Hopefully that worked if not Post with a Pikemans Lament force

I'm now up to 2 primary forces (red and blue) and whole bunch of yellow and green extras to swap in and out as well as some lovely 10mm cattle for rustling.

[Orcs]

Genom, I wish you had not posted that picture. I have been pondering ECW for some time and been put off by the number of figures I would need to paint. THen you remind me of Pikemans Lament.

I am now looking at it again.  

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Pikemans Lament does give a good game....

[steve_holmes_11]

My copy of the 2nd edition rules arrived on Monday.
I'm about 2/3 through a proper detailed read after skimming the whole product.

I'm very pleased.

I've purchased a few too many "2nd editions" from other authors that were little more than 1st edition with errata.
Dragon Rampant is a proper upgrade.
All done with minimal interruption to the core v1 game.

Much of the expanded page count is occupied by design notes, advice, refined and better explained fantastic powers and magic, examples and suggested force lists.
There's a campaign system and advice on homebrewing.

Great value (in the UK) from Awesome Books.