Non-scheduled smoke

[richafricanus]

Does one only need to buy smoke assets for scheduled fire?  i.e. Can other units, whether on or off table, fire smoke whenever they feel like it (obviously assuming off-table have been successfully called in)?  And are on-table mortars treated any differently for smoke?

[Big Insect]

Answer - in-line & in-bold:

Does one only need to buy smoke assets for scheduled fire?  i.e. Can other units, whether on or off table, fire smoke whenever they feel like it (obviously assuming off-table have been successfully called in)? 
> No - all Smoke ammunition must be purchased, whether for scheduled fire, commanded fire and for all units on & off table
And are on-table mortars treated any differently for smoke?
> No - a mortar unit that has Smoke as a designated ammunition type must buy a Smoke asset to be able to fire smoke. The Smoke only effects the unit that the mortar is shooting at - it is not a template, just a single 'puff' of smoke that only effects the unit hit.

I think there is another (recent) thread that discusses different ammunition in detail. But essentially all on-table artillery/mortar units have HE as standard and all off-table artillery/mortar units have HE as standard, but for commanded fire only. HE for scheduled fire, must be purchased. As must all other ammunition types.

Cheers
Mark

[richafricanus]

Thanks for the reply. Is there somewhere in the rulebook that spells this out? All I can see is on p.75 under Assets that says "Assets are used for scheduled support during the game."  It doesn't distinguish smoke and HE.

[Big Insect]

Thanks for the reply. Is there somewhere in the rulebook that spells this out? All I can see is on p.75 under Assets that says "Assets are used for scheduled support during the game."  It doesn't distinguish smoke and HE.

Possibly - but those are the rules.
I can create a specific errata with that in it, if that would help, but there are a number of threads both in the BKC and CWC sections of the forum that explain that this is how it works.
Cheers
Mark

[fred.]

Possibly - but those are the rules.
I can create a specific errata with that in it, if that would help, but there are a number of threads both in the BKC and CWC sections of the forum that explain that this is how it works.
Cheers
Mark

Mark - I think this discussion and the fact that there are threads on this, does mean the terminology is not that clear, for people trying to learn this only from the printed book.


I do feel for the next edition that a thorough look at the terminology used and whether it is consistent would be very useful. 

I've played BKC since v1, so know how assets work - but reading this thread makes me really question how they have been written. 
You must buy an asset to use smoke with a FO
You must buy an asset to use smoke with a scheduled strike
You don't need to buy an asset to use HE with a FO
You do need to buy an asset to use HE with a scheduled strike

Spot the odd one out?

[richafricanus]

Fred, I couldn't agree more.  Coming from a group of experienced gamers trying to learn these rules, there are a lot of opportunities to simplify wording, remove repetition, put related rules in the same place (e.g. firing) and ensure that all the author interpretations are actually in the rule book.  We are really enjoying the rules, but at the same time tear our (thinning) hair out at the above challenges.  That all being said, really appreciate the promptness and friendliness of all the replies to our questions.

[Big Insect]

Mark - I think this discussion and the fact that there are threads on this, does mean the terminology is not that clear, for people trying to learn this only from the printed book.


I do feel for the next edition that a thorough look at the terminology used and whether it is consistent would be very useful.

I've played BKC since v1, so know how assets work - but reading this thread makes me really question how they have been written.
You must buy an asset to use smoke with a FO
You must buy an asset to use smoke with a scheduled strike
You don't need to buy an asset to use HE with a FO
You do need to buy an asset to use HE with a scheduled strike

Spot the odd one out?

Hi Fred
I am in total agreement with you & richafricanus, and when we issue the next BKCIV (& CWCII) errata updates we can make it a lot clearer.

It's really a carry-over from BKCII (& CWCI) where there was no direction on assets (especially munitions) and in CWC, in particular, that was causing all sorts of issues as players were giving every gun or mortar Smoke (and it was causing the game to become very bogged down). Likewise with any aircraft that could carry a munition that special munition and that proliferation was again distorting game-play and the attempt to simulate some sort of reality in the game.
Smoke was not standard issue (& still isnt today) - so making players buy it as a conscious choice is, I believe, the correct way to include it in play.
Cheers
Mark
It's easily rectified with an errata update.
 

[Lord Kermit of Birkenhead]

Smoke was not standard issue (& still isnt today) - so making players buy it as a conscious choice is, I believe, the correct way to include it in play.
Cheers
Mark
It's easily rectified with an errata update.
 

Sorry Mark but that is dead wrong - 10% of ammunition for 25pdr's was smoke, and seems to have carried over to the 70's at least. OK not the major nature carried but was available to every battery

[sultanbev]

Mark's comment made me do some googling. Found this for US WW2

Found it on this thread
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/3203807/smoke-as-cover-in-wwii
and linked to a file called Official Munitions Production of the United States By Months, July 1, 1940 - August 31, 1945 which is awesome. Found here
https://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p4013coll8/id/3332/rec/1

The US made M112 APCBC rounds for the 155mm Long Tom guns, over half a million of them! I know under Lend Lease each British Long Tom had 3x APCBC rounds on average in NW Europe allocated, which is a bit bizzare.
They also made ammo for British 4.5", 5.5", 7.2" howitzers.
And because the file shows monthly production, we can find when each weapon type had smoke available. Marvellous! I may be some time....

[Big Insect]

Sorry Mark but that is dead wrong - 10% of ammunition for 25pdr's was smoke, and seems to have carried over to the 70's at least. OK not the major nature carried but was available to every battery

10% Ian ... I rest my case.

[Big Insect]

10% Ian ... I rest my case.

So 1 in 10 shots per side.
As most BKC games rarely go more than 4-6 full game turns, the current Smoke asset levels are realistic, especially to ensure fluid game play.
But as always Ian, and you know this well, if you are playing OOBs then you can do as you please