A New Nerd Appears

[Chris Pringle]

Welcome to the forum! Your Napoleonic Saxons look beautiful.

My overarching goal is to at some point run Wagram at the army level at a convention.

If you don't mind me saying, though: Wagram with 32-man battalions like the ones you've posted seems a little ambitious (if that's your intention). By my reckoning, it means 300,000 or so men on the battlefield translates to about 10,000 figures. How big a table are you thinking of and how many days to play?

[BernaDotDotDot]

Thanks for the post.  It is something obviously I think about a lot and enjoy it, and you've thought of some things that I often flip around on day by day.

Overall, it would be a 15x6 or so and broadly, based around the Micheal Hopper scenario.  I have the Reets Relish felt for it already, although that was mostly thanks to opportunity that box is already checked.

The size and your estimation is correct.  My main concern isn't so much the number of figures as playability actually.  I do not mind if this is five or ten years from now.  Overall it is a great carrot and my favorite single battle. 

One of many concerns is the playability of the scenario in a long day or two days.  I am open to many rules sets, and being new that is a side hobby as well and a lot of fun.  As I finish an Austrian side I will start actually playing more rules.  I have played enough games in my life I can estimate reading, watching videos, and looking at reports.  But still want to play many myself. Then there's both finding that set and becoming appropriately expert in it to run a game for other people.

What I may end up doing is more "fudged" regimental with this in mind. If I were to go with Shako, then one of these bases would be regimental, or with depot brigades and such fudged to be 3 bats or so each. Cavalry would likely stay regimental, but then that would need testing.

I don't want to do that, but again I want the game to be fun and able to conclude within a convention!  A more fiddly rules set, and battalion as the unit, Wagram might be too much quite easily, to the point of not fun for anyone.

This is also the reason for the chosen basing.  It is flexible with just about any rules set that does not compute casualty to the exact casting.  But, any rules that fiddly would not work well for a convention game anyway.  I may do things like 6 bases to an Austrian curassier regiment, but for most rules that is more flavor.

Artillery will certainly be fudged a bit, as they vary the most between rules.  I have an okay pile (so far... 48 Austrian cannon and limber?) but artillery representation varies a ton by rules sets.  Some are one figure.  Some like the Too Fat Lardies Armee that's only 8 or so batteries...  Will see.

Figuring this all out is a side part of the hobby so far and enjoyable.  Honestly it is quite important, because if it weren't there I would be all over the place with colorful allies and whatever units at a time.

Thanks.  That is something I am always juggling and enjoy it, but never actually written about out loud.

[Last Hussar]

If you are looking at Wagram I would consider carefully the rule set and the actual level of each unit. I've found that the units on the table should be 2 levels down from the role the role the player is playing.  So if you are looking at units being battalions, then the player would be the Divisional commander (Division->Brigades->Battalions).

Obviously if you are successfully playing with a bigger difference then ignore me!

I have 'Blucher' from Sam Mustafa. An infantry stand in this is 3000-5000 men at 'Grand Scale'. As Wiki says Wagram was about 150000-170000 French that is about 40 bases (Cavalry are 2000-3000 horses per stand). Bases are organised into Corps

At normal scale (2000-3000 infantry per unit) a table is 4 1/2 miles wide, so at Grand Scale it is not unreasonable to assume it is 6 miles, which just about fits Wagram (I think!).

As a rule set it isn't massive on low-level detail - there are only two formations, 'Prepared', where infantry get an advantage against Horse in close combat, and Not Prepared! (you haven't given it a Prepare order since it last moved). Anything that moves can't (usually) fire - though some units have a 'Mobile' trait, such as British Light Infantry, that allows them to; this is an exception. Artillery isn't classed as limbered or unlimbered - either it moved or it can fire.

The reason for this lack of detail is You Are An Army Commander - it is the colonels' job to manage formation etc, you just want to know that II Corps is where you want it.

[BernaDotDotDot]

Thanks for the post and advice!

If I understand what you are saying, you are correct.  More likely play would be divied out by Corps to a player.  It would depend on how many signed up, and that part could work out way down the road. 

I own Blucher as well.  I do not love it, but also do not hate it.  Which is still something to be said as I can be very opinionated on the rules I do not like (don't get me started on BP!)  It is a little zoomed out for my taste.  I will likely play it a few times here for fun and enjoy it, but for this goal, can't say anything for certain just yet, but don't think that is where I will land.  I would rather zoom down and play simpler rules than zoom up. I do not dislike it, more it isn't my favorite.  I think it is a well written game system.

So far my favorite is Shako. That might be too intricate for this level of detail, but part of the fun will be figuring that out.  I also like Snappy Nappy.  Here we get back into what will be, over the next years, playing rules and balancing scope of the game vs what rules are best.

Then there are simply rules I think I will enjoy to play here.  I recently picked up Valmy to Waterloo.  I really like what I am flipping through.  Not a convention game, but for around here I love crunchy.  I think Empire I would actually enjoy, but it falls off in having  specific basing baked into its math for casualties.  Probably never play it, but I like the idea of it.

Wagram is 14x6 miles with 12" being a mile at 10mm.  At least per the Hopper scenario which are all designed for Shako.  Even then, it is a bit tight on the left and south French lines, the off table acting as reserve.  But who wants to play thicker than 6 feet! It calls for 18" per mile at 28... which would probably simply call for a fudging of the field or additional tables with walking space between.

[Last Hussar]

I understand what you mean about Blucher - it lacks the detail that we are used to in rules, but that is really down to being Napoleon or Arch-Duke Charles; you assume the Battalion commanders are doing the right thing, and you worry about where the Corps are.

[BernaDotDotDot]

Funny, I actually really like ESR, probably in my top three at least so far with my limited understanding, even though it removes a lot of detail just like Blucher does.  There is something about ESR that I really enjoy, and I am too newbie to put it into words yet, and same for why I am lukewarm on Blucher.

[Last Hussar]

I've looked at getting ESR, but never really got me, money and motivation in the same place!

[ale]

hi Bernadot, you have made a great work, bravo!

[BernaDotDotDot]

Hey thanks ale!  Congrats in the competition!  I love your vehicles.

Thanks very much.  At some point I will post more pictures.  It was a bit of a hurry to get them in.  But I have piles of figs to paint and post, and some day will actually, you know, play games!

[ale]

Thank you very mutch, i think that  next year will be another hard fight!!
A lot compliment for all your works (i like it very mutch)
sorry to my albion
ale