Close Assault Query

Started by Baron Counterpane, 11 July 2022, 08:43:53 AM

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Baron Counterpane

Inspired by Richard P's superb Rendsburg terrain set, I'm thinking of having a go at some solo CWC-II to try out urban combat. I think for now I'll just try the standard rules, though I have downloaded the Urban Warfare pdf.

This has led me to examine in detail the close assault rules (something I never really got my head around in the first edition) and I've found one place (so far) where I'm unclear.

Page 44 (second paragraph) points out that AFVs are more vulnerable than infantry when assaulted in close terrain. It then goes on to say that the to-hit scores are 5 or 6 for AFVs or vehicles, 4, 5 or 6 if open-topped.

Page 55, however, section CALCULATING HITS, has all assaulting units hit on 4, 5 or 6 regardless of cover.

So is a T-72 close assaulting West German infantry in a city park (classed as woods) hit on a 5 or 6 or is it hit on a 4, 5 or 6? In either case, in what way is it worse off than Soviet infantry also assaulting into the same area?

Richard


Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Taking a guess but I supect that it means the assaulting elemnt takes hits on 4.5.6 and gets no cover bonus whilst the assulted unit does but AFV's reduce it by 1.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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Big Insect

QuotePage 55, however, section CALCULATING HITS, has all assaulting units hit on 4, 5 or 6 regardless of cover.
> do you mean Page 45 (Richard)? - in which case:

"(The) Assaulting units always count as being in the open during an assault move even if they move through cover or obscurants. Defending units under assault are hit according to their cover value. When fighting successive rounds of combat, all units count as being in the open ... etc."

So is a T-72 close assaulting West German infantry in a city park (classed as woods) hit on a 5 or 6 or is it hit on a 4, 5 or 6? In either case, in what way is it worse off than Soviet infantry also assaulting into the same area?

> in the example - firstly the T-72 cannot close assault the West German infantry - as they are not in the open (page 43 - section 5 - "the following restrictions apply:" 2nd bullet point: AFV's (including IFVs and APCs) may only assault units in the open, except where carrying infantry or engineers.

> But leave that to one side ... your T-72 is counted as the assaulting unit - so initially it would be attacked (by the West German infantry) as if it is in the open (so a hit on a 4, 5 or 6). So you are correct, the T-72 is only worse off because it has a lower CA factor than Soviet infantry, in an assault but doesn't count the advantage of any cover (although that applies to all attackers - not just AFVs in BUA/woods).

The defending West German infantry are defending cover, so they are hit on a 5 or 6 (rather than a 4-5-6 if they had been out in the open). So in effect the advantage sits with the German infantry as it not only hits on a 4-5-6 but as the T-72 has a CA factor:3, whilst the West German infantry has a CA factor:4, it is one up on the hit dice as well.

In subsequent rounds of combat - so if the melee stagnates - the T-72s are still as vulnerable being in the close terrain and so can be hit on a 4-5-6 as they count as being in the open (had they been an Exposed AFV the West German Infantry would get a +1 to their CA factor for fighting in the cover). The West German infantry are now also on a 4-5-6 to be hit, as they are in a 'swirling' melee with enemy armour.

I agree that the wording does imply that there should be an additional disadvantage applied to the T-72 for fighting in the BUA/Wood.
So I can see your point ... but the 'vulnerability' to the AFV when in attacking in the close terrain, is the reduction of its protection to 4-5-6 in the initial assault. The fact that the defending infantry are also hit on a 4-5-6 in an on-going combat might be the real issue - but that mechanism goes back to the 'dawn' of 'Commander rules time!  :)

Looking back at CWC-I (page 35) it just states that assaulting units count as being in the open, and defending units count as the cover they are defending (in the initial assault). And both count as being in the open in the ongoing melee.
In BKC-I (right back at the very beginning of 'Commander time') there it stated that the 'Score to-hit' factor was based upon the cover that the unit is in, but again attacking units always count as being in the open.

Long answer to a short question - but does that all make sense?

Looking back at my notes on this ... I was inclined to add a +1 attack dice against AFVs engaged in ongoing close assaults in close terrain by Infantry and Engineers, with an( additional +1 attack dice added to that for Infantry & Engineers fighting Exposed vehicles. That would seem to resolve the issue, and add a 'disadvantage' to armour attacking in close terrain.
However, ... and there is almost always a however ... for some reason I chose not to do that. Maybe it made Exposed AFVs far too vulnerable - although TBF an opened-top AFV fighting in the close confines of BUA or wood is probably asking for serious trouble anyway!


Thanks
Mark

'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

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Baron Counterpane

Thanks Mark. I'll leave any comment of "That makes sense" or otherwise until I've had a go at playing the rule in an actual game situation.