Chinese APCs in Iranian Service?

Started by Big Insect, 26 June 2022, 11:22:54 AM

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Big Insect

I'm most of the way through the new Iranian list - an augmented conversion from the CWC-I list.
However, I am struggling with the Chinese APCs.

The old CWC-I list had Type 56s and Type 77s in the list, but I can find no record of either in Iranian service or having been exported by the Chinese to Iran.

Iraq had some (a very few) Type 62(YW531C) that they captured from Iraq (during the Iran/Iraq war) ...
Type 92 (WZ-551A) were exported to Iran - but that is 1996+.
Other than than that, the records look to be very 'sparse' regarding Chinese APCs in Iranian service.

All contributions welcomed.
Thanks
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

None of my sources show any Chinese kit in service with Iran - Stratigic balance 1979-83 (3 copies) Janes Armour Artillery (83-4) and Janes Tank and AFV recognition from 2003
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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sultanbev

I have no reference to Chinese APCs in Iranian service either. The Helion books on the war list deliveries from China as:
volume 1 shows:
300x Type 59 tanks delivered 1982-1984 (I think these served in the Revolutionary Guard)
300x 108mm Type 63 MRL towed, delivered 1981-1987

volume 3 shows, which I think supercedes the data in vol.1:

100x 122mm MRL Type 81 on trucks delivered 1982-1987 (BM-11-30??)
200x 107mm MRL Type 63 delivered 1982-1986 (in Pasdaran fire-support battalions)
440x Type 59 tanks delivered 1985-1986
100x 122mm Type 83 towed artillery 1095-1986
100x 130mm Type 59 guns 1985-1986 (copy of Russian M46 gun)
250x 107mm MRL delivered 1985-1986
100x 122mm MRL delivered 1985-1986
120x more 130mm Type 59 delivered 1987
6500x HJ73 Red Arrow ATGW 1982+
500x HN5 man-portable SAMs in 1986

Mark

Matt1tibby

This doesn't answer the original question and you may know this, but 'The Iran-Iraq War' by Pierre Razoux states that in 1982 China supplied Iran, via North Korea, with Type 69 tanks, Type 59 cannons, rocket launchers, mortars, SAM-7 missiles and light motor boats and gives the International Herald Tribune 4th April 1984 as the source.

It doesn't mention the earlier tanks so I assume they weren't in the Iranian line up.

Matt

Big Insect

Many thanks chaps ... as I suspected ... good to have the confirmation.

There are Chinese APCs recorded later - and some are still in use but I can find very little around at the time of the Iran-Iraq war.

The Type 59 'issues' coming up again ... as the designation applies across a host of different types of weapons and vehicles - which might be the cause of this particular APC issue.

However, Wiki records the following (& quotes good sources - for once!):

~300 Type 59s delivered by China from 1982–1984, and ~500 Type 69-IIs from 1986-1988 (possibly through North Korea.)
540 T-54/T-55/Type 59s in service in 2004 through, with that number including Safir 74 conversions by 2014

So I feel more confident about the MBTs than about the APCs, and Iran had more than adequate numbers of M113s so I suspect the Chinese ones were unnecessary.

Thanks all

Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

There is also the problem of mis-identification since Type 59 is a T54/5 clone
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
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Smartbomb

The SIPRI Arms Transfer Database may be of use as well. It lists 300 Type 59 Tanks and 500 Type 69-II Tanks as delivered in the years 1979-1988, but no APCs.

Big Insect

Quote from: Smartbomb on 28 June 2022, 02:39:55 PMThe SIPRI Arms Transfer Database may be of use as well. It lists 300 Type 59 Tanks and 500 Type 69-II Tanks as delivered in the years 1979-1988, but no APCs.

Thanks - that is my conclusion as well - so no Chinese APCs.
Another wargaming 'myth' dispensed with  :D
Cheers
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

flamingpig0

QuoteThere is also the problem of mis-identification since Type 59 is a T54/5 clone

Apparently, the Iraqi's just called it the Chinese T55
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