Arab-Israeli ranges released!

Started by Leon, 19 June 2022, 10:56:49 PM

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Leon

20 June 2022, 01:35:21 PM #15 Last Edit: 20 June 2022, 02:52:08 PM by Leon
QuoteThe EPG21 should have the Russian 57mm ZIS2 gun from pack SVA3, picture shows a 57mm 6pdr in both EPG20 and EPG21

I'll need to check on that then.  They're both 6pdr/57mm guns but one is the US version (M1?) without the muzzle brake on it.  I'd pulled all of the guns from our Korean War artillery pile so I might have pulled across the wrong 57mm AT by mistake.

QuoteLooking forward to seeing some of these...looks like a great range. Can I ask is there any plan to do the Jordanians from around 67?

No plans at the moment, we did talk about it at the design stage but we thought that other ranges would proxy in for them.

QuoteThese ranges are under the "Post War" section of the website - the associated vehicles are in the "Modern" section.

I most humbly suggest they be in the same place?

All in the same place now, the relevant vehicles should appear below the ranges for all 3 nations. Adding items to a different website category can be done on the new site but it's a bit of a chew, so we left it to do this morning.

QuoteAny reason there seem to be two packs of RPD LMG in the Syrian army pack and none in the Egyptian army pack?

No real reason, more the smaller range of Syrians than anything else.  We try to keep the packs quite standardised so for these post-WWII ranges it's a pack of MGs, mortars, officers, RPG's and then infantry to make up the rest.  For the Egyptians I thought folks would want some Saggers in there so the RPD's got bumped.  I can easily knock out one of the kneeling/firing packs to include some LMG's if you like?
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sultanbev

The Egyptian 6pdr was the British one,
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1956/nov/21/egypt-captured-equipment
and by all appearances the Israeli one has the muzzle break. (wiki)

Interesting that the Egyptian 3.7" AA guns had AP ammo....

Leon

Quote from: sultanbev on 20 June 2022, 02:38:16 PMThe Egyptian 6pdr was the British one,
https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1956/nov/21/egypt-captured-equipment
and by all appearances the Israeli one has the muzzle break. (wiki)

Interesting that the Egyptian 3.7" AA guns had AP ammo....

I'll get that swapped over then, we've recently remoulded the Soviet 45mm and 57mm guns so they'll be to hand.
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sultanbev

Have found that the IDF used both the Mk.II 57mmL43 6pdr and Mk.IV 57mmL50 6pdr, including ex-Dutch ones, so British models would be fine for the 6pdr. It is clear that the Egyptians used both 6pdr and Russian 57mm ZIS2 even in the same areas.
https://www.academia.edu/39505313/SUEZ_1956_NOTES_ON_PLANS_ORDERS_OF_BATTLE_AND_EQUIPMENT


fsn

Quote from: Leon on 20 June 2022, 01:35:21 PMAll in the same place now, the relevant vehicles should appear below the ranges for all 3 nations. Adding items to a different website category can be done on the new site but it's a bit of a chew, so we left it to do this morning.
Knew you'd be on top of it. Amazing the variety of vehicles that are relevant.
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Leon

Quote from: sultanbev on 20 June 2022, 03:45:14 PMHave found that the IDF used both the Mk.II 57mmL43 6pdr and Mk.IV 57mmL50 6pdr, including ex-Dutch ones, so British models would be fine for the 6pdr. It is clear that the Egyptians used both 6pdr and Russian 57mm ZIS2 even in the same areas.

No worries, I've got the guns here so I'll get those swapped over this week.

Quote from: fsn on 20 June 2022, 04:31:32 PMKnew you'd be on top of it. Amazing the variety of vehicles that are relevant.

There were quite a few!
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Steve J

An excellent range there and so, so tempting, given the wide range of vehicles and AFV's that can be fielded 8) .
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fsn

Indeed. I'm "low tech" and "high tech" variants.

Israeli's with M51's and M3's then Centurions and M113's; Egyptians with T34/85s and BTR somethings then T54/55/62(?) and BMP1.

Gives me 4 alternatives scenarios.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

The Israelis deliberately used M48's and Shermans against the Jordainians to avoid blue on blue, but no doubt Nobby will be doing that.
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kustenjaeger

Does anyone know if the PK/PKM [general purpose] machine guns were used in any number by either Egyptian or Syrian forces in 1973? I've read conflicting references but found nothing definite. 

I suppose if i have a need for the PK(M) in light mode I could wait for the Cold War Soviets who definitely should have them and do a conversion.

Edward

Sunray

Short answer Edward is no. I checked this out for Leon when he was designing the range.

RD Jones in Janes Infantry Weapons(Egypt) omits any mention of PK.

I think it was Laffin in Osprey suggests that this may have been because the SG43 was built under licence in Egypt and popular because it was soldier proof,as well as that national pride factor.

Sources suggest the Syrians adopted the PK after the 73 war, as part of Soviet sponsored rearmament.

kustenjaeger

Quote from: Sunray on 24 June 2022, 09:02:50 PMShort answer Edward is no. I checked this out for Leon when he was designing the range.

RD Jones in Janes Infantry Weapons(Egypt) omits any mention of PK.

I think it was Laffin in Osprey suggests that this may have been because the SG43 was built under licence in Egypt and popular because it was soldier proof,as well as that national pride factor.

Sources suggest the Syrians adopted the PK after the 73 war, as part of Soviet sponsored rearmament.

Many thanks - really useful.

Edward

flamingpig0

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 21 June 2022, 08:59:58 AMThe Israelis deliberately used M48's and Shermans against the Jordainians to avoid blue on blue, but no doubt Nobby will be doing that.

Erm, didn't the Jordanians have M48s
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