CWC-II Army List Errata/Suggestions (Open)

Started by Big Insect, 24 May 2022, 09:54:10 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Looks to be an invented weapon on both the ANZAC and Indian Lists, OQF 20pdr towed. Never heard of a towed mount for it only Cents and Charioteers. Am prepared to be corrected on it but seems to be unlikley since the 17pdr was thought to be too heavy.
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Big Insect

I suspect that this is an error Ian.

Probably a misunderstanding because the OQF 17pdrs were known as as 17/25-pounders and given the codename Pheasant early on in their development.

The 17pdrs were replaced by the BAT, MOBAT and 120 mm L6 WOMBAT series of recoilless rifles in their ATG role.

Easily resolved.
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Only the first few 17pdr, in Tunisia. Also you mised one on the 120's COMBAT, a reworked Mobat with an L4 LMG as ranging gun. Just as an aside and not checked lists for this but MOBAT, COMBAT and WOMBAT all fit in the back of a LWB Landrover. No doubt some one will pop up to say I'm wrong on that, but observed several times. 
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Big Insect

Quote from: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 24 June 2022, 09:32:10 AMOnly the first few 17pdr, in Tunisia. Also you mised one on the 120's COMBAT, a reworked Mobat with an L4 LMG as ranging gun. Just as an aside and not checked lists for this but MOBAT, COMBAT and WOMBAT all fit in the back of a LWB Landrover. No doubt some one will pop up to say I'm wrong on that, but observed several times. 

I'm not sure that the differences between the COMBAT, MOBAT, WOMBAT are significant enough to differentiate them in the lists, but I will check.

If the Landrover variants could be fired whilst mounted in the vehicle, then that is an omission (which can be corrected) but if they are just transported in the Landrovers, then that option is covered by having the 4x4s in the Transport section. As the COMBAT, MOBAT, WOMBAT are all classified as INF:AT they can be carried by the Landrover (classified as a 4x4).

Thanks
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Big Insect

25 June 2022, 10:42:58 PM #184 Last Edit: 26 June 2022, 08:39:22 AM by Big Insect
Quote from: HogansHeroes on 23 June 2022, 10:36:00 PMThe Swedish Type 66 Infantry Brigades used the Strv 74 for recon after 1970. Could the Strv 74 be added to the recon list for the Swedes (it is currently under armour)?

Also Swedish Type 66 Infantry Brigades sometimes used tractors and trailers to motorise. Could these be added to their transport options, mostly just for flavour? It could just be a slightly slower truck (maybe speed 15?).

You can easily convert a vehicle to Recce by adding 20pts. But we'll look to add the Strv 74 in the Recce section _ I will just need to check the service dates.

The tractors are an easy add - there are stats for these in the British Falkland list - but they are classified as 'Prime Movers' so can tow things but not act as transports - although if the Swedes had them towing large trailers they might be able to move INF: units as well - but they'd be classified as a VEH.

Cheers
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Superscribe

Hi Mark. I am sure some of this will have been covered in previous posts and apologise if I am repeating anything unnecessarily, but could you clarify stats for on-table medium mortars and artillery.

In a previous post you said stats for 12cm/120mm mortars were AP 4/100 and AT 2/100 for British, Bundeswehr and Soviets. Maybe the same for other nations too. However in the PDFs medium mortar ranges and attacks seem to vary considerably e.g. Brit 81mm/Bundeswehr 8cm AP 3/120 AT 1/120*, Soviet 82mn AP 3/120 AT blank, 82mm BTR-152 AP 3/120 AT 2/100* and 82mm Vasilek AP 6/200 AT2/100*. What is the correct range and attacks for these classes of mortar?

For on-table artillery (and I assume this refers to towed and SP artillery, not mortars) the rules state that the attacks listed in the table on p52 should be used and not the ones in the army lists. Almost all the on-table artillery attacks for British, Bundeswehr and Soviets are therefore incorrect e.g. British 155mm/Soviet 152mm/Bundeswehr 15.5cm need to be changed from 4/100 to 5/100H and British 105mm/Soviet 122mm change from 3/100 to 4/100H. However the off table equivalents remain 4 and 3 hits respectively. To avoid any confusion can you please confirm if the table on p52 should take precedence over all on-table artillery stats shown in army lists, without exception, or advise otherwise.

Rgds

Chris

Big Insect

Quote from: Superscribe on 25 June 2022, 11:01:01 PMHi Mark. I am sure some of this will have been covered in previous posts and apologise if I am repeating anything unnecessarily, but could you clarify stats for on-table medium mortars and artillery.

In a previous post you said stats for 12cm/120mm mortars were AP 4/100 and AT 2/100 for British, Bundeswehr and Soviets. Maybe the same for other nations too. However in the PDFs medium mortar ranges and attacks seem to vary considerably e.g. Brit 81mm/Bundeswehr 8cm AP 3/120 AT 1/120*, Soviet 82mn AP 3/120 AT blank, 82mm BTR-152 AP 3/120 AT 2/100* and 82mm Vasilek AP 6/200 AT2/100*. What is the correct range and attacks for these classes of mortar?

For on-table artillery (and I assume this refers to towed and SP artillery, not mortars) the rules state that the attacks listed in the table on p52 should be used and not the ones in the army lists. Almost all the on-table artillery attacks for British, Bundeswehr and Soviets are therefore incorrect e.g. British 155mm/Soviet 152mm/Bundeswehr 15.5cm need to be changed from 4/100 to 5/100H and British 105mm/Soviet 122mm change from 3/100 to 4/100H. However the off table equivalents remain 4 and 3 hits respectively. To avoid any confusion can you please confirm if the table on p52 should take precedence over all on-table artillery stats shown in army lists, without exception, or advise otherwise.

Rgds

Chris

Not at all Chris - yes - all noted and all due to be picked up in the big errata correction - the statement about Artillery only really applies to guns (which tend to have the same AP/AT stats & ranges on-table) - but I agree it is confusing. Generally, the army list stats will 'trump' the general stats in the book, which are designed as a catch-all.
I'll look at the stats for the 81mm mortars - we will have to attempt to accommodate 61mm, 100-107mm, 120mm and 155mm+ mortars, so you might find that some of the 'granularity' you might be looking for disappears. But I'll do my best to accommodate that.
Cheers
Mark

Cheers
Mark
'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Quote from: Big Insect on 25 June 2022, 09:49:42 PMI'm not sure that the differences between the COMBAT, MOBAT, WOMBAT are significant enough to differentiate them in the lists, but I will check.

If the Landrover variants could be fired whilst mounted in the vehicle, then that is an omission (which can be corrected) but if they are just transported in the Landrovers, then that option is covered by having the 4x4s in the Transport section. As the COMBAT, MOBAT, WOMBAT are all classified as INF:AT they can be carried by the Landrover (classified as a 4x4).

Thanks
Mark

Entire series - BAT - with gunsheild, only towed
MOBAT - sheild removed - often towed but fits in back of a LWB landrover - can be fired when Portee.Optical sights. May be fitted to 432's

Wombat - does not stand for anything, fitted with 0.5" Ranging gun so longer effective range. Never towed and can fire from Landrover or 432

CONBAT - moderenised MOBAT fited with L4 LMG as ranging gun. Can't think of any improvement it made except higher rate of fire. 
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Big Insect

'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

No problem - CONBAT is TA only.

Incedentally you may find TA compoanies consisting entirly of MILAN platoons, Mortar Platoons and SFMG platoons. Those are composites for training purposes and belong to several battalions.
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Superscribe

Quote from: Big Insect on 26 June 2022, 08:47:00 AMNot at all Chris - yes - all noted and all due to be picked up in the big errata correction - the statement about Artillery only really applies to guns (which tend to have the same AP/AT stats & ranges on-table) - but I agree it is confusing. Generally, the army list stats will 'trump' the general stats in the book, which are designed as a catch-all.
I'll look at the stats for the 81mm mortars - we will have to attempt to accommodate 61mm, 100-107mm, 120mm and 155mm+ mortars, so you might find that some of the 'granularity' you might be looking for disappears. But I'll do my best to accommodate that.
Cheers
Mark

Hi Mark
So, based on what you have said we will continue to use the stats for on-table arty and mortars as listed in their army lists (ignoring table on p52) and look forward to the detailed errata when it comes out in due course. 

Could you just clarify stats for Brit 81mm mortars as they are shown as AP 3/120 and AT 1/120* compared to shorter range of 4.2"/12cm/120mm mortars with AP 4/100 and AT 2/100. Should medium mortars have longer/equal/shorter range than the heavy mortars?

Ta

Chris

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Real world ranges : 81mm L16 - 5650m, 120mm M39/43 5.7 km. The 120mm bomb is roughly 4 times that of the 81mm one. ROF - 81 sustained 4-8 rnds min, 120 2 rnds min.
FOG IN CHANNEL - EUROPE CUT OFF
Lord Kermit of Birkenhead
Muppet of the year 2019, 2020 and 2021

Superscribe

Hi Mark. This may have already been posted, but Munitions are missing from notes column for all Btitish and Bundeswehr aircraft. I am sure this will get picked up in the errata. Chris

Big Insect

'He could have lived a risk-free, moneyed life, but he preferred to whittle away his fortune on warfare.' Xenophon, The Anabasis

This communication has been written by a dyslexic person. If you have any trouble with the meaning of any of the sentences or words, please do not be afraid to ask for clarification. Remember that dyslexics are often high-level conceptualisers who provide "out of the box" thinking.

Steve J

Now I have the CWCII rulebook, I'm just playing catch up on all the trheads that have been generated. I'm glad to see under the Optional Rules the Static Hits option. We have used this for years in our BKCII games and find, for us, it makes for a better game.

One that that irked us with CWCI with hits coming off both sides at the end of the Turn, was that it was often really hard to KO anything during a game. As an example, in a campaign lasting  4-5 games, my British lost only one Chieftain tank (without Still brew) throughout. It didn't feel right to us. Some lucky die rolls here and there might have helped, but not to the extent of them lasting for so long.

So I'm looking forward to seeing how things play out using the Static Hits option with the new rules. First I just need to sort out my OOB and then place some orders :)