CWC-II Rules Errata (Open)

Started by Big Insect, 24 May 2022, 09:29:44 AM

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Raider4

"A" is amphibious, "R" is restricted view, "O" is an open top, sides or rear.
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Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

First Hi. Tanks with an R - normally Soviet - reflect poor vision and doctrine to fight closed down. It normally also applies to assault guns.
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JcDent

Thanks! Would love it if it was explicitly stated in the rulebook (unless I just can't find it).

I'd also love some clarity on on unit entries/types. For example, most ACs have Wheeled, but Wheeled isn't explicitly stated in the army lists. So if I, say, look at 3M6 Shmel, 2P27 BRDM, it's just listed as an ATGW. Now, I know I can wiki a photo of it to see that it is, indeed, a wheeled vehicle, but I don't know if the dev intent is for it to act like one.

On a similar vein, all AFVs are stated to be tracked, but we all know that BTRs are all wheels, all the time.

flamingpig0

Am I reading the rules right ( sadly never had the chance to play them)- MCLOS +2 to hit - so firing at a vehicle in the open would move for 4+ to needing to roll a 6. Oh, and hitting a vehicle in cover would be impossible?
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Antigonos

I think I see two contradictory situations in close assault, if I'm reading things correctly.  There's a strong chance I'm not, so apologies in advance for any lack of comprehension on my part!

On page 43, paragraph 7, it states that an IFV can assault while loaded with passengers.  It would take its own CA value and add the passengers as a support unit.  So, an IFV has CA of 3 +1 for support = 4.

But on the chart on the top left of page 45 clearly states IFV with mounted infantry has a CA of 6?  Or is another +1 added for support as per page 43, for a total of 7?

Unless it gets a CA of 6 if the passengers are an infantry platoon (like panzergrenadiers) but only 4 if there was a Milan team onboard?

I also am a trifle confused on transporting units, and again apologies in advance if I missed a crucial phrase somewhere, but it seems that anything with a "transport" characteristic can therefore move a towed gun as per page 35?  So a BMP can haul a Sprut?

Despite my nitpicking, I'm really looking forward to putting CWC on the table again.  As you've said (if I recall correctly), it's an evolution not a revolution of the rules.  You've done a tremendous job and deserve a round of applause!  Thanks!

Leon

Quote from: JcDent on 28 May 2022, 06:59:15 AMHi, I just wanted to ask, what rules do letters A, R, and O stand for in unit notes/abilities?

The closest I can get is A for Amphibious and R for only fires in a 90 degree cone, which is weird for tanks.

I spent some time searching (case-sensitive, whole words) the rules PDF for it, but unlike S1, TI, H, I couldn't find anything that goes "marked by 'A'"

I think we'll need to do a bit of an Army List explanation sheet for some of these.  There's a few that are carried over from CWC-1 but need updating, so all of the O designations have been changed to the Exposed special ability instead.  We've found and edited most of them in the online lists but there may still be a few hiding somewhere.

The R is still Restricted Arc so has the 90 degree limitation you've mentioned.  This isn't always due to the traversing ability of the turret but also due to manpower I think?  Pete Jones explained it better years ago on the old BKC forums, I'll have to see if I can find his post.
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Superscribe

28 May 2022, 07:21:35 PM #21 Last Edit: 28 May 2022, 07:32:19 PM by Superscribe
The Danger Close rules on P44 are new to CWC and allows either player to use on-table or off-table artillery to attack or defend themselves as part of a close assault.  It says that a 10cm diameter template is used for this and of course with this you could hit your own troops too! Normally only off-table artillery use HE templates for standard indirect fire, as on-table fire use attack dice against one specified target and no template. So now I'm confused! 

I understand why off-table artillery might use a reduced size template for this but not on-table artillery, as they do not use templates under any other circumstances. Is there any reason why on-table artillery use a template for this and do not attack a single target as normal, when using the Danger-Close rule? 

Superscribe

Any thoughts regarding firing ATGW over narrow waterways (see my previous post of 24th May)?

Lord Kermit of Birkenhead

Real world answer is maybe, it pepends on depth and current also guide wire insulation. Also some of the earliest Soviet missiles were radio guided so not affected by crossing water. But safest answer for any rules writer is that no 1st or second generation missiles can fire over water. Any water courses that
 are too small to to short out the control would not appear on table.
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TheRowan

Quick question on Air Support... on p.58, the table states that full AFVs are hit on a 6 by aircraft. On p.59, the example shows a PT-76 being hit on 4+. Is the table or the example correct - or is this a different situation because in the example the aircraft is concentrating attacks?

Superscribe

No firing ATGW over water was in CWC1 rules, but several players must have felt strongly enough about this for the House rules, that can be found in  the files section in the CWC Facebook page, include a line that says ATGW can be fired over waterways up to 300mm wide.

Several of the other CWC1 house rules have found their way into the CWC2 rules, such as helicopter movement, and its a shame that the ATGW rule didnt! Although I believe 300mm is too wide for this, as far as I am concerned a canal or river that can be bridged by a MT-55 or Chieftain bridge layer (upto 100cm wide) should not affect ATGW firing across it. So I will continue to play the house rule, but amended to max 100mm.

Hopefully this rule will be oficially amended to allow a level of ATGW fire across narrow waterways 😊

JcDent

30 May 2022, 07:08:51 AM #26 Last Edit: 30 May 2022, 07:17:21 AM by JcDent
Quote from: flamingpig0 on 28 May 2022, 01:22:46 PMAm I reading the rules right ( sadly never had the chance to play them)- MCLOS +2 to hit - so firing at a vehicle in the open would move for 4+ to needing to roll a 6. Oh, and hitting a vehicle in cover would be impossible?

I just had the same question about MCLOS as well.

Another suggestion: "The target unit is in gunpit/etc" modifiers would be better off in the Firing Modifiers table rather save value mods since they modify the shooting dice rather than save value.

E: w/r/t Command Unit AA fire, how does it work? Can they only fire against Air Strikes in opportunity fire/etc.? Does that mean that helos are immune to them?

madaxeman

The US sample list seems to have rolled the Bradley series of vehicles into/under the Recce heading
 
The Brits are the only one of the three lists where the units under the Recce heading are listed as having Recce capability

Recoilless Rifles (p49) appear to be able to engage in indirect AT fire at targets completely outside of their line of sight, by using (what reads as being essentially) the same mechanics as on-table mortars do for their firing

Can the artillery listed as "on Table" in the lists be bought (at the same price?) and used off-table too? 
 
(Reading the rules for off- and on-table artillery and looking at the lists it sort of reads as if the artillery types listed under "on table" in each list now function as on-table infantry support weapons, and it's unclear whether they can also be used/purchased as off table area fire batteries. All of the Off Table area fire weapons inthe lists now (broadly speaking) are of 155mm+ calibre.)
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Quote from: flamingpig0 on 28 May 2022, 01:22:46 PMAm I reading the rules right ( sadly never had the chance to play them)- MCLOS +2 to hit - so firing at a vehicle in the open would move for 4+ to needing to roll a 6. Oh, and hitting a vehicle in cover would be impossible?

I believe that means you add +2 to your roll to hit - so against a vehicle in the open you would need 2+

flamingpig0

QuoteI believe that means you add +2 to your roll to hit - so against a vehicle in the open you would need 2+

I read it the other way as MCLOS is not normally considered an effective system
"I like coffee exceedingly..."
 H.P. Lovecraft

"We don't want your stupid tanks!"
Salah Askar,