Trying to find information on a pocket watch

[paulr]

Hi All,

I am hoping the collective knowledge of the forum can assist a colleague of mine.

His Grandfather 'found' this watch during his time at Gallipoli, Arras and the Somme in WWI. He was with the Royal Naval Division.

From the Cylindre 6 Rubis I am assuming it is a fairly low-end 'Swiss' watch. This could be completely wrong. This may make the watch serial number hard to track down.

The engraving and the year 1905 are interesting. Any thoughts or suggestions on how to find any more information would be much appreciated.







Click on the images for larger versions.

[Steve J]

First stop would be an antique auction house ?

[fred.]

Interesting watch - and if you click on the image again in postimg you can see a super sized version

It looks very similar to an old family stop watch I have - but maybe all pocket watches have a similar look to them. ]

I'm slightly confused what the 3 pictures show, is the first one a case? If the second one is the back, does the metal case open?

The engraving looks like it was done by the owner, not a shop - I assume 1905 was one it was done, but could be a date of birth?

[Gwydion]

On the left is a number 0.800 which is the silver purity of the case. Above it is a cartouche which has a (very worn) wood grouse or coq de bruyere which is the hallmark for 800/1000 silver. On the right is a crescent moon with an almost worn away crown which has been engraved over)  which is the German hallmark for that purity of silver after 1886. It often has after or inbetween the moon and crown 800 or 8. The 8 here apears below.
The number (which I think is a separate 8 again and then 1317) may be a case style number. There should/may be a serial number in the movement/mechanism itself (Be careful!).
No sign of a makers name or initials I take it? on the rim of the case or interior rim?
There are some marks to the left and below the 1905 and below the 1905 engraving which are too faint and not the right light angle to see. Maybe a better light and a jewellers eye piece or magnifying glass may reveal more.
Looks like a moderate quality six jewel Swiss mechanism watch that has been hallmarked in Germany prior to being 'found'.
Probably not an easy job to identify the maker - although if you can find a serial number on the mechanism there are lists (probably online somewhere) that Swiss makers kept for many makes.
No obvious military engravings.
If you spin the back round 180 is the burred engraving: (initials?) Wahl? That is a German surname (as well as 'choice')
Of course I may be barking up entirely the wrong tree!
(What are those arrows that look a Christmas tree and ...and what?)
Good luck on your quest!

[Ithoriel]

" those arrows that look a Christmas tree and ...and what?"

Reminds me of a similar image my paternal grandfather had created on a brass cartridge case during the same period. He was a Mason so I'm guessing the image may be a pyramid with a trowel and hammer. All common Masonic symbols.

I read the name as Y Wolle though I wouldn't go bail for that. Both Wolle and Molle are surnames of German origin. I agree it could also be Wahl.

As to 1905, probably not a DoB as the owner would be 9 to 14 years old during WW1. My guesses are 18th or 21st birthday or date of becoming a Mason. 

[Gwydion]

A trowel is not a bad call.
It's all a bit rough diy ish though. Masonic symbols are usually engraved to much higher quality.

[paulr]

Thanks all, particularly Gwydion. The possible Masonic connection is interesting

I'll pass the above on to the current custodian and let him decide if he wants to consider opening it to get the details from the mechanism.

Fred, I'm also not sure what the first photo is showing 

[Ithoriel]

<SNIP>

Fred, I'm also not sure what the first photo is showing 

Looks to me like the back cover. I assume it stops the actual back with the exposed spindles for the hands from getting clogged with gunk. Looks to me to fit in the circular bit sticking up on the left of picture 2,

Of course I may be entirely wrong on that. IANAW!

[Gwydion]

I'm pretty sure Ithoriel is correct. That would be the normal place for the silver (or gold) purity marks. But why is it separate? I confess I'm not sure whether it has popped free of the bezel which is hinged open in pic 2 (that joint/hinge opens to expose the winding and setting arbors in the cuvette as shown in pic 2 - which itself should open to expose the movement) or if it is meant to come free? - unusual.
It appears not to have a front cover - pic 3. But there is a hint of what may be a broken joint at the 6 o'clock position. It may of course be an open face but it feels as if it should have a full case - don't know why without seeing it all of a piece. But if it did have a hunter (full) case it should have the bow/stem at the three o'clock, and the joint at the nine, which it obviously doesn't – so I'm probably wrong!

[paulr]

Thanks again both for the very useful information