How many flags in an 1809 Austrian Infantry Regiment

[Last Hussar]

Id use them

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

Thanks

[Zippee]

Yep, the PD flags are absolutely fine (I use them) - as I say a mixture of patterns was in use throughout so its one of those areas where you can't be wrong except in the highly unlikely event of someone turning up with teh regimental history of IR ## and citing the loss of its 1792  standards at Ober Grottling in October 1810 in an accidental church fire...

[fred.]

1792?  My sources say 1794.

[mollinary]

Yep, the PD flags are absolutely fine (I use them) - as I say a mixture of patterns was in use throughout so its one of those areas where you can't be wrong except in the highly unlikely event of someone turning up with teh regimental history of IR ## and citing the loss of its 1792  standards at Ober Grottling in October 1810 in an accidental church fire...

For shame Zippee, have you not been reading this thread?   Infantry regiments did not have standards!

[John Cook]

How dare you sir!

That's a flogging offence

Cavalry standards are identical to infantry flags but reduced in size 800x800mm. from 1680(1760)x1400 for infantry (1806 pattern)

Leibstandarte (white) is issued to the 1st squadron
Eskadronestandarte (yellow) to each of the other squadrons [number of squadrons changes with date]

I'll note that we haven't discussed which pattern of standard/flag for 1809 yet. There's a 1792, an 1804 and 1806 version for infantry; 1792 and 1806 for cavalry. Although in fact the 1804 pattern was barely manufactured let alone distributed.  The 1806 pattern deleted reference to teh HRE and changed the FII cypher to FI accordingly plus some other changes. 1792 pattern were carried until lost or worn out though, so the choice is yours in 1809 ...

It is my understanding that the 1804 pattern never really saw the light of day, presented perhaps to no more than a couple of regiments before the 1806 pattern appeared. 

[Zippee]

1792?  My sources say 1794.

1792 - Leopold II died and the 1780 pattern flag was altered just enough to read Franz II - that alteration became known as the 1792 pattern but it was really just an alteration not a re-issue

[Zippee]

It is my understanding that the 1804 pattern never really saw the light of day, presented perhaps to no more than a couple of regiments before the 1806 pattern appeared. 

I think that's what I said, the 1804 pattern was decreed on 11 August 1804, but the production order was only issued on 28 March 1805. No one knows exactly how many were made before the 1806 pattern was decreed.

According to Dave Hollins only IR4 based in Vienna is likely to have received the 1804 pattern and then probably only a ordinarfahne. A pair of standards were presented to IR4 in June 1806, but Hollins thinks the leibfahne was a replacement for the one lost in 1805 not a new 1804 issue. No idea why he thinks that but my notes indicates he thinks no others appear to have been issued.

[Last Hussar]

I don't like the back of the 1806.

[John Cook]

I think that's what I said, the 1804 pattern was decreed on 11 August 1804, but the production order was only issued on 28 March 1805. No one knows exactly how many were made before the 1806 pattern was decreed.

According to Dave Hollins only IR4 based in Vienna is likely to have received the 1804 pattern and then probably only a ordinarfahne. A pair of standards were presented to IR4 in June 1806, but Hollins thinks the leibfahne was a replacement for the one lost in 1805 not a new 1804 issue. No idea why he thinks that but my notes indicates he thinks no others appear to have been issued.

Yes, more or less.  I was agreeing with you.  I know Dave Hollins very well.  I'll ask him.  Dave wrote this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Imperial_Austrian_Army_of_the_Napoleonic_Wars

[Last Hussar]

There's Another Place that often criticises him.

But then they sneer at most experts.

[Duke Speedy of Leighton]

I don't like the back of the 1806.

The first half of 2020 can do one too!

[Last Hussar]

What he said

I've not really enjoyed much after early October 2017

[John Cook]

There's Another Place that often criticises him.

But then they sneer at most experts.

What other place?  Who criticises whom?

[Zippee]

i assume the reference is to TMP where the Napoleonic Boards are notoriously bitchy and regularly descend into scholarly handbag scuffles between obstinate opinionists.

Dave used to insert his valuable and knowledgeable comments but like many has been driven away by the unfriendly response (admittedly he could also be somewhat terse at times)

I do not know him ersonally but I'm familiar enough with his work to accept his opinion on most matters Austrian as more than good enough for wargames