Pendraken Miniatures Forum

Wider Wargaming => Rules => Downloadable Rules => Topic started by: DanJ on 23 June 2010, 01:35:07 PM

Title: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 23 June 2010, 01:35:07 PM
These rules have been written by Forum member DanJ, who has kindly allowed us to put them up here for everyone!  :o

They follow a "top down approach" and are intended to produce an enjoyable game and have been very much a work in progress, although I'm pretty happy with the general mechanics.  Any feedback is always appreciated.

EDIT - Feb 2012:  Here is the latest version!

Rules: http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS V1_2012.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS V1_2012.pdf)

Play Sheets:

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915 V1_2012.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915 V1_2012.pdf)

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET Mid 1915 to Mid 1917 V1_2012.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET Mid 1915 to Mid 1917 V1_2012.pdf)

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918 V1_2012.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/Flanders Fields PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918 V1_2012.pdf)



Earlier versions can still be found below:

Rules:  http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS beta V4.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS beta V4.pdf)

Play Sheets: http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915 V4.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915 V4.pdf)

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Early 1915 to Mid 1917 V4.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Early 1915 to Mid 1917 V4.pdf)

http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918 V4.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918 V4.pdf)



1st Edition

Rules:  http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS beta V1.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/FLANDERS FIELDS beta V1.pdf)

Play Sheet 1:  http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET 1914 to Early 1915.pdf)

Play Sheet 2:  http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Early 1915 to Mid 1917.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Early 1915 to Mid 1917.pdf)

Play Sheet 3:  http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918.pdf (http://www.pendraken.co.uk/FileBin/PLAY SHEET Mid 1917 to 1918.pdf)

Dan

Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 23 June 2010, 05:28:54 PM
These look excellent, I hope you get a lot of interest in them.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Bertie on 30 July 2010, 08:07:40 PM
Not tried them yet, but I have had a good look and am very interested. Tried Great War Spearhead & Bloody Picnic, OK but these seem much more interesting and fun. Once I get some time and get the others on board we will be giving them a a run through

Good work DanJ
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 02 August 2010, 09:54:43 AM
Hi Bertie,

Thanks for letting me know, I was starting to think no-one cared :'(

Actually since I posted the V1 they have gone though quite a lot of editing and some changes and are now on Beta V3

The latest iteration keeps about 90% of the V1 set but I've changed the combat from D10 to D6 and simplified and expanded the close combat rules to include assaulting bunkers and fortified positions as well as rules for ground attack aircraft fnecessary for 1918 battles, especially the 100 days campaign.

I've a big game planned for tomorrow which should test the new stuff to destruction, hopefully no big issues will come up and I'll finish pulling it all together by the end of the week and get the new PDFs to Leon by the weekend.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Bertie on 11 August 2010, 09:43:14 PM
Hi Dan, how did the play test go? When can we see the revised version?

A question on the rolling barrage, it is 10cm wide and moves forward 20cm per turn. This will leave large areas on the field untouched. Is this the correct interpritation, as you can see I am not the sharpest bayonet in the Company.

Bertie
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 11 August 2010, 10:10:59 PM
Dan's just sent me the revise edition, so I'll get it uploaded this week for everyone.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 12 August 2010, 10:18:50 AM
Quoteas you can see I am not the sharpest bayonet in the Company

Don't worry my little Baldrick, I have a cunning Plan....

The question about the Rolling barrage is a very good one and shows how hard it is to make what you write be what you mean, especially when you've been playing and developing a set of rules for months  ::)

The rolling barrage is indeed 10cm wide and advances 20cm per turn but this is across the WHOLE of the table, edge to edge.  This way it will roll over every part of the table but at any one time only a relatively narrow portin of the table will be covered.

Imaging a curtain of shells slowly moving across nomans land with the infantry and tanks trying to keep.

There are a number of WW1 artillery fire plan maps available in the internet and the Western Front Association does a number of DVDs with almost all the British WW1 maps on them.

Try here for a taster

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ASearch&search=artillery+map

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Sean Clark on 12 August 2010, 02:05:35 PM
Dan

These look very interesting. I like the 'down the table' approach to give depth to the battlefield. I have printed them for a closer look and will feed back my thoughts.

Sean
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Bertie on 12 August 2010, 03:20:01 PM
Sorry Dan, I understand eveything except the fact that if I move the 10cm deep grid forward by 20cm I will jump10cm of the table with the fire plan. I would undertand if the grid was 20cm wide. :-[
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 12 August 2010, 03:21:41 PM
Hi,

I've just checked the latest version I sent to Leon and the Rolling Barrage area query is pretty much covered on pages 21 and 22.  

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 12 August 2010, 03:38:34 PM
Ah, sorry,  I see what you mean.

To repressent the rolling barrage we use strips of felt 10cm wide by 30cm long.  These are stretched across the table and flipped over twice at the begining of the attackers turn, rolling for effects on every unit rolled over, even if they are no longer under the barage at the end of the turn.

The strips allow us to "bend" the barrage when needed to conform to terrain.  20 x 30cm strips would work fine and would only need "flipping" once which is probably a better solution.  I think we use 10x30 strips because in one of the early versions of the rules the barrage advanced 10cm at the start of the attackers AND defenders turn, this was abandoned as being too complicated (as were many other sophisticated and interesting rules which ultimately were found to slow play down without giving much in return).

I also think my local market stall sells felt in 30x30cm squares so cutting a square into 3 strips was logical at the time.

I just haven't got round to buying and cutting up more felt strips but I may well change the rules to reflect the recomendation of using 20x30 templates.

Just had a eureka moment, rather than use felt templates you could use coloured ribbons to mark the edges of the barrage  ;D
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 12 August 2010, 04:43:14 PM
The wonders of technology!

I've just ammended the rules to make the Rolling barrage template 20cm wide and sent an updated PDF to Leon, hopefully he'll upload it instead of the one I sent yesterday.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 12 August 2010, 08:01:13 PM
New edition uploaded and available in the original post at the top of the page!
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: The_Shootist on 08 October 2010, 11:00:57 AM
have downloaded them and will try and get the local club to try them out, they currently play square bashing so maybe be able to convert them.?
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Lord Kermit of Birkenhead on 08 October 2010, 12:18:11 PM
Just a note - mentioned em on the Deeside Defnders group, as our tame(ish) scotsman likes WWI, so the link is now on "freewargamesrules.co.uk"

IanS >:(
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 08 October 2010, 01:12:11 PM
 8)
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 14 October 2010, 11:33:05 AM
Hi,

I recently spent a few days in Ypres and St Quentin without wife, dog or other distractions, just visiting sites and museums. 

While away I took the opportunity to give the rules a good going over and spotted several omissions and anomalies, mainly to do with changing the order and combat systems from a D10s to D6s.

I'm now editing them out, changing the font and layout to improve readabiity and adding a random events section to the apendixes, so the rules as currently available are still a work in progress.

Hopefully I'll be getting some critical feed back from this and other sources which I'll also feed into the rules.

Incidentally I'm grateful for any feedback no matter how critical, I don't mind someone saying the rules are aweful providing they have good reasons for their opinion, if it something I agree with I'll change the rules, if not I can explain why the rules take the form they have.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Trollslayer on 03 June 2011, 11:09:41 PM
Dan, hello. Just joined the forum after downloading your ruleset. A few of use have been trying to find a good set and have playtested yours tonight. Overall we liked the way they played and will be continuing the game next week (so they cant be bad!). A few questions have arisen.
How do you determine what guns and their sizes are available for off table bombardments?
The early set had modifiers for Veterans when firing but these are omitted from V.4, is this correct?
I hope you are still working on them and others could give further feedback.
Keep it up. ;)
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 20 June 2011, 11:16:06 AM
Hi Trollslayer,

Glad you like the rules, I'd thought this thread had died so haven't been posting anything here, I have indeed been busy and things have progressed considerably since BetaV4 which is the version you probably have.

The rules have been through BetaV5, V6 and V6i, to arrive at a Production V1 set :-\.

I've tried to simplify as much as possible, especially the command system to make it better reflect the development of tactics and training over the course of the war, 1914 games are quite a bit simpler than late 1918 ones.  They also include rules for things like SOS fire and air attacks.

If you drop me an email I'll send on a copy and if you and your club think they are better I'll ask Leon post the updated set here.

As far as your specific questions are concerned:

QuoteHow do you determine what guns and their sizes are available for off table bombardments?

We work on a simple rule of thumb of 1 field battery per Regiment/Brgade and 1 battery of heavies per side, the the deep supression rolls makes it harder for defending artillery to play an effective part in the battle.  Super heavy artillery can be attached if required but it can be devastating should should be used with circumspection.

QuoteThe early set had modifiers for Veterans when firing but these are omitted from V.4, is this correct?

Yes, after a lot of discussion we decided that this made veterans too powerful, in the new version of the rules verterans add +1 to their order die which means that if they roll a 6 this becomes a 7 which allows them to perform 2 actions, moving and shooting etc.  It feels better.

Dan

Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Trollslayer on 21 June 2011, 05:13:22 PM
Dan

Glad to see its not dead. We think you have the basis of a good playable set of rules there. What happens to command stands when suppressed/killed? This happened due to a rolling barrage.
Your email is hidden on your profile, is it safe to post here??
Ian
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 22 June 2011, 09:16:21 AM
Hi Ian,

I've sent you a private message with my email.

Again I've forgotten what happened to supressed stands in V4 but in the current version (which now seems quite stable) you apply a -1 to it's order die roll for every separate cause of supression. i.e. if a command stand is supressed due to a rolling barrage and is then caught by a mortar and supressed again this counts as two levels of supression and the stand issues (or tries to issue) orders with a -2 modifier.  All command stand supression is removed at the end of that players next turn so command supression is relatively temporary.

If a command stand is killed then it is imediately replaced with a new stand as the next ranking officer automatically takes over.  However this new command stand has a permanent -1 on all order rolls to reflect not only the loss of the CO but the new commander's inexperience and loss of key command personel like runners etc.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: ciaphas on 27 July 2011, 06:53:28 PM
Hi, jumping in a little late here, are the rules at the top of this the final draft?

thanks
jon
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 27 July 2011, 07:25:54 PM
Quote from: ciaphas on 27 July 2011, 06:53:28 PM
Hi, jumping in a little late here, are the rules at the top of this the final draft?

The ones in the first post are an older copy now, I believe they've gone through a couple of changes since then.  I'm sure DanJ will confirm.

Quote from: DanJ on 20 June 2011, 11:16:06 AM
The rules have been through BetaV5, V6 and V6i, to arrive at a Production V1 set :-\.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 01 August 2011, 09:25:41 AM
The version on the site are now quite old and have had a lot of changes made to them.

I'm currently waiting on feedback from a couple of groups before sending Leon the latest version.

If anyone wants a copy of the current set just send me a private email and I'll send them a copy.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Lightningf6 on 22 January 2012, 03:18:37 PM
Hi, I can't get the V4 version to open. It says the file is damaged. Anyone else had this problem?
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 22 January 2012, 05:25:52 PM
Quote from: Lightningf6 on 22 January 2012, 03:18:37 PM
Hi, I can't get the V4 version to open. It says the file is damaged. Anyone else had this problem?

I'll have a look when I get to work tomorrow, I think I've still got the file on the work machine, so I can re-upload it.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 24 January 2012, 09:25:18 AM
Hi Leon,

I'll send you the latest vesrion later on today.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 24 January 2012, 04:23:55 PM
Leon,

I've just done the new PDFs but can't remember how to get them to you

Please remind me.

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 24 January 2012, 05:53:24 PM
Quote from: DanJ on 24 January 2012, 04:23:55 PM
I've just done the new PDFs but can't remember how to get them to you

Please remind me.

You can pop them through on the Pendraken email (d.pengilley@btinternet.com) if you like?  I think when we spoke on the phone last, you were unsure how big the files were, so if they're too big for the email, you could always pop them on a CD and send them up to us?
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 25 January 2012, 11:58:08 AM
Hi,

Latest copy of rules just emailed, files are quite manageable.

Wifey has agreed to holiday in late June and early July so it's looking good for the party.  :D
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 25 January 2012, 07:49:44 PM
Quote from: DanJ on 25 January 2012, 11:58:08 AM
Latest copy of rules just emailed, files are quite manageable.

Wifey has agreed to holiday in late June and early July so it's looking good for the party.  :D

I've got the files, thanks for sending those through.  Great news on the party, should be a great day!
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: DanJ on 16 February 2012, 04:41:56 PM
Hi Leon,

Wifey has agreed to me coming to the party :D

I'm working on a senario based on Amiens in August 1918 to show as wide a range of Pendraken models as possible, French as well as British and German  ;)

However I've just got an email to say someone can't down load the latest version of the rules, can you check please.

Regards

Dan
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 17 February 2012, 05:43:25 PM
Apologies for the delay, trying to do too many things at once and forgot to upload them...  :-[

All done now, so the new versions of the rules are now available at the start of this thread: http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,825.msg6276.html#msg6276 (http://www.pendrakenforum.co.uk/index.php/topic,825.msg6276.html#msg6276)

Quote from: DanJ on 16 February 2012, 04:41:56 PM
Hi Leon,

Wifey has agreed to me coming to the party :D

I'm working on a senario based on Amiens in August 1918 to show as wide a range of Pendraken models as possible, French as well as British and German  ;)

Excellent, awesome news.  I'll be touch soon about the details of the game!

8)
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leon on 16 April 2013, 04:14:12 AM
With the WW1 anniversary coming up soon, has anyone given these rules a go, and if so do you have any feedback?

:-\
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: fred. on 22 June 2013, 01:16:56 PM
I've just seen these rules linked through from TMP, to Miniature Wargames - then done some googling, and ended up back at Pendraken!!

I've been looking through these this morning, and working out some figures and base counts.

For a test game or two, how important is it to have individual platoon bases? I have lots of WWII based on 50x30mm bases, which is pretty much the same as 4 of the FF platoon bases ranked up. I am happy to use dice to mark wounds, rather than removing stands.

While in the medium term I'm more than happy to buy more Pendraken, I'm also aware of the number of projects I have on the go, and the finite amount of painting time I have.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Fenton on 28 June 2013, 04:00:46 PM
just bought MW with the article, excellent read
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Leman on 29 June 2013, 06:08:07 PM
Downloaded and will take a look.
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: fateeore on 14 January 2014, 10:27:09 AM
The colour quotes are a little jarring.

They are best described as anti-Govish, which given the current debate makes the rules look poorly researched,
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: Church lad on 28 March 2014, 12:13:00 AM
Have been trying out some 1914 ideas but a couple of questions arose. When a battalion issues orders to a company does it mean that the company can spend the number of actions on its platoons? For example a coy receives 2 actions, does this mean that it can activate 2 platoons or that each platoon can do 2 things?  Can the 2 actions be the same, ie. a platoon could fire twice?
Also, why does a command stand have a modifier in close combat?

Thanks for any help
Title: Re: WW1 Rules available for play testing
Post by: ffoulk on 19 May 2016, 09:56:53 AM
I'm really impressed by these Dan!

The Great War has always held my interest historically but really haven't come across rules which seemed interesting to play beyond 1914. Okay, I admit I am choosing 1918 and the rebirth of more mobile warfare for my armies but these make me think I might actually try something a bit trenchy as well.

This is going to be my summer project. Biggest downside of WW1 terrain is making all of those bloody barbed-wire entanglements - just ordered 10 meters of (oversize at this scale) barbed wire. *sigh*